Windows 8 SWTOR

[ZirusZero]

Just wait til windows 9. You know that it will kill 8.

[morfius]

It's not really fair to include both the DOS/3.1/9x line and NT lines in the same comparison, as they were different kernels. 3.1/9x were, as you said, GUIs for DOS (I read 95 being described as "a colourful clown suit for DOS"), whreas NT was written as its own thing as a server OS with no DOS code in it. The Win32 API developed for NT was later back-engineered into 3.1 and 95, but that was compatible calls, rather than actual NT code.

 

It wasn't until ME that they started trying to merge things - although it still had some DOS in it, it also had some NT in it (such as the TCP/IP stack). By XP they gave up on merging DOS and NT, and just scrapped DOS completely, with XP being the next iteration of NT.

 

If 95 is included so can be 1, 2, 3 ... DOS GUI

NT3 is first usable OS ... I wrote it.

Actually gave up was with Windows 2000 (NT5) - when they integrated media and gaming into NT core.

Me had 98SE core after all (I have tried it and even some DLLs was from NT, core behavior was same).

And even we drop 1, 2, 3 & NT3, 4.... this pattern matcher is missing 2000, 2003 & 2008... 2000 had desktop version, 2003 with Xp drivers and some tweaking had 25% better performance on same hardware and tweaked Xp

So there is no pattern, there is only haters gonna hate 8)

[morfius]

They're also trying to move computing from being an open platform where you can do and install anything you want, to a closed one where all downloaded applications have to be certified by Microsoft.

 

There is some thought in this ... but reality is - they want programers to write for windows phones & tablets.

Desktop computing never can be put in such model... or they going to give up on business customers.

Such failure would press large companies to move to Linux based computing...

[Leematon]

Upgraded to Windows 8. Took about 30 minutes to get the hang of it, but I love it. Clean and fast.

 

Can you play any of your older games on it? Just asking.

[vereybowring]

Just to play with I stuck windows 8 preview on my old netbook.

I had to do a registry hack for screen resolution since the netbook has a teeny screen but other than that installation was fast and hit no problems. A few updates and it was working. It is marginally faster than windows 7, probably more so on a faster system by my estimation.

As has been mentioned windows 8 is basically an optimised windows 7 with a new interface option. From the small amount of testing I've done it's just a new interface that's the huge change while many small under the hood changes have upped the speed a tad and have fixed some of the issues that made windows 7 resource hungry.

 

From what I understand microsoft are being more strict with hardware specifications so that only the better components will be supported and they are ceasing to try and certify as many components as they can. Yes this will cut down choice slightly if you build your own but in the long run is possibly a good thing to make components manufacturers comply to a standard.

 

As always with a new OS, it will be up to the games makers to decide if they want to support windows 8 or not. Only time will tell on that one. Games companies always have this when a new OS turns up, you'll hear much posturing all over the place - hell valve and others are already claiming microsoft is killing the games market. Technology moves on and everybody has to move on or fall by the wayside.

I also agree while the launch price is very tempting for 8, waiting six months at least is possibly a good idea until some of the initial bugs are ironed out and some software companies have had a decent chance to decide what they are doing with it.

[netslayer]

before I switched to windows 8 I was on windows 7, my game had microstutter with a single 7970 gpu at 1920x1080. I recently got a 2560x1440 and still had random fps drops could not enable shadows and the game still stuttered, after switching to windows 8 I was not sure about the layout, but im getting used to it, my ingame performance has gone through the roof this is how the game should have played with my system all along, no more microstutter or graphic jitter everything is maxed out at 2560x1440 even shadows and im getting a steady 60 fps the game is silky smooth, everything loads faster even when tabbing between the game and an internet page its instant. Edited October 27, 2012 by netslayer

[Goretzu]

It's not really fair to include both the DOS/3.1/9x line and NT lines in the same comparison, as they were different kernels. 3.1/9x were, as you said, GUIs for DOS (I read 95 being described as "a colourful clown suit for DOS"), whreas NT was written as its own thing as a server OS with no DOS code in it. The Win32 API developed for NT was later back-engineered into 3.1 and 95, but that was compatible calls, rather than actual NT code.

 

It wasn't until ME that they started trying to merge things - although it still had some DOS in it, it also had some NT in it (such as the TCP/IP stack). By XP they gave up on merging DOS and NT, and just scrapped DOS completely, with XP being the next iteration of NT.

 

Win 2000 was were NT stopped being difficult and genreally just worked, before that it wasn't fit for general public use IMO.

 

Win ME was horrible for the first 6 to 12 months of its existance (much like Vista later), although they eventually patched it into something actually ok - but by that time, of course, Win XP was out and the only reasonable choice by that point.

 

The problem with inital reviews of new OS's is the are usually love it or hate it, it's only a bit later where the weight of evidence begins to shift.

[psandak]

Got Windows 8 for $14.99, which is a great deal. Like people have been saying its takes getting used to, but in the end is better then 7 in my opinion. Don't let those people brainwash you into thinking 8 is horrible, try it before you make your decision whether it sucks or not, so you can know you at least tried it.

 

For those who see and say, "OMG where do you get that?" In order to qualify for this pricing you had to have bought a Win7 computer over the summer or buy a win7 computer by the end of this year (time frame is June 2nd 2012 - January 1st 2013). Only purchases of computers with win7 pre-loaded qualify.

 

That being said the price for digital download is VERY reasonable at $39.99 and if you want a disk its $69.99. But those prices only last until January as well. After that, retail price for win8 pro upgrade is $200.

 

I have test Windows 8 station, it is optimized 7 core + some new interfaces.

I have found a way to not use "metro" without messing with 3rd party software, it is not hard ...

All this mess with living panels on desktops is about getting developers to work for them, I suppose soon there will be official way to switch interfaces on classic PCs.

At least large companies will give them bad feedback when begin transitions.

 

Server and workstation OSes are very different? Going solely by workstation OSes and the history Microsoft has experienced, win8 is facing an uphill battle.

 

As for companies adopting win8 right now, don't hold your breath. Hell my company just started migrating to Windows 7 (lots of custom applications that were not compatible)

 

Let me tell you a story about another Microsoft product that did not go over so well in its early stages...

 

My brother is an IT director. Several years ago his department deployed Microsoft Office 2007 to all the administration computers in the buildings where he works. When all the secretaries came in and saw it, they FREAKED. They had no idea where anything was. They demanded that Office 2003 be reinstalled. This is the kind of response I GUARANTEE win8 will get from a lot of people.

 

And actually Yes, i did see windows 1 and 2 - showing my age and my geekness

 

I never understand these rushes to new OS's... I always boggle at the hype surrounding each .1 incremental upgrade of Apple's OS, and really Win8 is closer to a Win7.1+Metro upgrade than anything else. If it comes on your new computer, fine, deal with it. But it isnt worth paying any money for if you've already got 7.

 

I would agree EXCEPT that the pricing is insane for the moment. If you do plan to upgrade, my suggestion is buy it now so you at least get the good pricing. Worst case is $70.00 down the drain - not much worse than a hyped game that after playing it for ten minutes you decide you hate it. This is exactly my plan.

 

It wasn't until ME that they started trying to merge things - although it still had some DOS in it, it also had some NT in it (such as the TCP/IP stack). By XP they gave up on merging DOS and NT, and just scrapped DOS completely, with XP being the next iteration of NT.

 

In fact it was...sort of. Windows 2000 was supposed be Microsoft's first "merged" OS - single OS for home and business - but they ran out of time and could not pull it off. So they quite literally threw together WinMe at the last minute. Windows 2000 workstation was successful in the office and to an extent at home. WinMe was a total flop. Most users I knew back then installed win2k on their home computers. Microsoft then went back to work and did what they intended with WinXP - a single OS platform for home and office users.

 

Ok, they may not call them service pacs any longer, , never seen ANY software company release anything that did not need to be fixed in the field in some way, I like the idea of smaller more often patches, so let me re-phrase I will consider windows 8 after a coulpe of patches.. :)plus win 7 works great for me now, I am in no hurry to get something i don't need at the moment..

 

Fixed

 

Going back to the article of lovers and haters http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/26/7-people-love-windows-8-download_n_2017421.html - I fall into the serious multi-tasker category. At work, I have two 22" monitors, and a MINIMUM of Outlook, Firefox and IE (each with half a dozen tabs) launched and more commonly I have a dozen or more windows open at any given time. At home, I only have one 27" monitor but I always have several applications open. Hell, even on my iPad I can be seen bouncing between four different apps at once.

 

That being said, I also fall into the penny-pincher category so I will be buying a copy of win8 pro upgrade this weekend, even if I just hold onto it. Besides it is time to rebuild my home computer - bought it 3+ years ago with Vista, upgraded to win7 six months later and has been running it ever since.

[Jrpm]

Just to add to the thread:

 

I have worked with DO since 1.0 (remember Pickles and Trout?) and windows since it was MS's competitor to Topview. (I think I still have the disks somewhere.) So I have a bit of familiarity.

 

But.....

 

I don't have W8. My machine is W7. Basically, I will follow the upgrade the OS when I upgrade the machine. Having said that, I a one of the few with W7.5. That is my cell phone and has the same interface as W8, touch screen and all.

 

W8 is the attempt by MS to expand to tablets from cell phones. I expect Android to expand up to PC's. Apple already does both. (IMHO, and if PC's survive. Looked at their sales figures lately?)

 

(First touch screen I worked on/programmed was in 1988 for USN and was from HP. First tablet I worked on was in mid 90's and I think was a SPOC. Never really been convinced about either. Rattling my cane, you whippersnappers.)

[Jrpm]

Getting old. forgot to make my primary point.

 

 

My real concern is how to play on a touch screen. I can see turnning and targetting, but repeated firing of a chosen offensive option?

 

Maybe that is why I haven't heard of any Android or Ipad clients.

 

Or am I wrong?

[Andryah]

Ok, they may not call them service pacs any longer, , never seen microsoft release anything that did not need to be fixed in the field in some way, I like the idea of smaller more often patches, so let me re-phrase I will consider windows 8 after a coulpe of patches.. :)plus win 7 works great for me now, I am in no hurry to get something i don't need at the moment..

 

Yeah, "Service packs" in modern Windows releases are really just batched installs of live_update incremental patching that streams over time to people who permit it. Service Packs are for customers who do not permit live_update and need to catch up to current release every once in a while (which in today's world of 7/24 connection is very obsolete methodology... kind of like dial-up modems).

 

So the whole...no more Service Packs is a semantics marketing performance.

[Andryah]

They're also trying to move computing from being an open platform where you can do and install anything you want, to a closed one where all downloaded applications have to be certified by Microsoft.

 

Indeed.

[imMandalorian]

Getting old. forgot to make my primary point.

 

 

My real concern is how to play on a touch screen. I can see turnning and targetting, but repeated firing of a chosen offensive option?

 

Maybe that is why I haven't heard of any Android or Ipad clients.

 

Or am I wrong?

 

Its not that. Its the fact that tablets are not powerful enough to run a modern PC game nor any current mmo's that I know of. But on topic i have been using Windows 8 (final build aka RTM) since I got access though MSDN in August and have loved it. It is just as fast if not faster then Windows 7 and handles TOR very well and if you have a dual monitor set up you definitely want to upgrade for the additional support for dual monitors that microsoft added in. Overall the upgrade to Windows 8 has been worth every second of it and to all those who think windows 8 is a "closed platform" it is not. its only the app store that is closed to apps that are not approved by microsoft for various reasons and works just like windows 7 with installers and such.

[Etapi]

People saying things like "performance is much better with win8" and "my system runs faster now with win8" are mostly just experiencing that New OS Smell you get from a clean install. Unless you do a side-by-side comparison with fresh installs on identical hardware, you really arent qualified to make statements like those.

 

Now, people who DO have such things report mixed results. In general, Win 8 is a *bit* leaner and meaner... but it only really makes a difference on lower end machines and... you guessed it, tablets. It's an OS designed for tablets and phones, and it does those very well.

 

But if you are running Win7 on a desktop or non-touchscreen laptop (aka 99% of them) and looking at upgrading, you have to ask yourself... why? Ok, you say $14.99 is a great deal.. but what are you getting? The joy of reinstalling everything and waiting for driver support that may not be there? For dealing with IT centers that simply will not help you until their products are officially supported, and no guarantee that they ever will be? And you get to pay for these privileges?

 

I never understand these rushes to new OS's... I always boggle at the hype surrounding each .1 incremental upgrade of Apple's OS, and really Win8 is closer to a Win7.1+Metro upgrade than anything else. If it comes on your new computer, fine, deal with it. But it isnt worth paying any money for if you've already got 7.

 

You say I am not qualified to report the differences between Win8 and other versions, but thank you for making unqualified assumptions. I run Win8 on my current system, I run Win7 on 2 secondary PC's, I run XP on a 3rd pc, I have Vista on a laptop. I know how to compare operating systems. Win8 is by far one of the best products Microsoft has released in years. This is not fanboy or anything else. It is an excellent operating system that is out of the box one of the best pieces of software I have seen in ages. The differences in multitasking between Win7 and Win8 are huge, and people with older systems will see a very large improvement in memory management.

[Polebreaker]

You say I am not qualified to report the differences between Win8 and other versions, but thank you for making unqualified assumptions. I run Win8 on my current system, I run Win7 on 2 secondary PC's, I run XP on a 3rd pc, I have Vista on a laptop. I know how to compare operating systems.

 

I didnt say report the differences, I said (pretty clearly I thought) compare performance, and apparently you dont, because you are running different operating systems on different hardware, so you cant possibly know what sort of performance changes can be expected by anyone upgrading on the same hardware. Anyone's monkey can go slide the metro tiles around and decide if they like it or not, that's not comparing os's, that's comparing interfaces.

 

W8 is the attempt by MS to expand to tablets from cell phones. I expect Android to expand up to PC's. Apple already does both. (IMHO, and if PC's survive. Looked at their sales figures lately?)

 

I assume you are being facetious about pc sales figures... they are projected to drop by 1 whole percent in 2013. Yeah, pretty doom and gloom. But I do agree, as I said it's obvious to anyone with eyes that Win8 is Ballmer's push to get entrenched into the phone/tablet/surface market. Gonna be uphill getting developers to code for WinRT, but it should be easier with time.

 

And side note, I've been working with computers since before home computers existed, when output came from a printer instead of a monitor, and input was punch card based lol... take that you whippersnapper! (Please dont remind me about topview.)

 

In the end it doesnt matter, people in this age constantly forget that an OS is JUST a platform. Not too long ago we talked about needing a Killer App to secure a new OS's place in the market... now they try to just hype them up as Must Haves For the Sake of Having. But they arent. WinXP's killer app, for gamers at least, was Directx 9, plus performance and stability (once hardware caught up). Win7 has dx 10/11 (although it's argued ms COULD have backported dx10 to xp, but they didnt...) and real actual improvements over xp in stability and performance. Vista, ME and most other failed OS's didnt have killer apps.

 

Win8's killer app is supposed to be metro, because other than that there's not much point in putting forth the effort to develop for and support it. And it's not pushing the hardware performance envelope, quite the opposite, it's making things run better on lesser machines... that's a good thing for sure, but outside of phones/tablets, everyone already has a machine that can run win7 just fine soo... Only time will tell if it's as stable as win7. It may be, especially considering metro's focus on only running one or two apps at a time...

 

As regards swtor and win8, I'm glad it's running great for people. There's no reason why it shouldnt. As said, it's not THAT different from win7 (on a desktop pc) except in the boot and interface departments.

 

That being said the price for digital download is VERY reasonable at $39.99 and if you want a disk its $69.99. But those prices only last until January as well. After that, retail price for win8 pro upgrade is $200.

..

I would agree EXCEPT that the pricing is insane for the moment. If you do plan to upgrade, my suggestion is buy it now so you at least get the good pricing. Worst case is $70.00 down the drain - not much worse than a hyped game that after playing it for ten minutes you decide you hate it. This is exactly my plan.

.

 

That's totally the right attitude to take towards it, I agree completely.

[Sarlan]

I installed the last preview of Win 8. The TOR installer prompted it did not support the OS and could not continue and asked if I wanted to continue

 

It installed and seemed to run OK almost as good as it did on Win 7. If you do not like metro you can google for classic shell. Its a start menu replacement for Vista/7/8 on Win 8 it removes the metro menu and adds a Win 7 like searchable start menu and even boots directly to the desktop bypassing Metro completely. There are also other Metro removers/start menus popping up you can search for.

 

Once Metro is disabled and a proper start menu is installed Win 8 is actually an improvement over Win 7.

[NasherUK]

Problem with windows 8 is it's awful new GUI, meaning you have to use "classic shell" to revert it back to something usable if your an advanced user.

 

But once you do that, there really isn't much point in upgrading it all. It has no benefits for a gamer and companies won't want it either, because it means re-training staff to use an OS that has no additional benefits.

Edited October 27, 2012 by NasherUK

[Monthigos]

I've been running SWTOR on Win8 Enterprise Preview and now the retail version and have not had any problems whatsoever. I run the game at full settings and get a fantastic frame rate. As far the new start menu, well I think it's a matter of personal taste. I prefer it myself personally.

[Andryah]

Problem with windows 8 is it's awful new GUI, meaning you have to use "classic shell" to revert it back to something usable if your an advanced user.

 

But once you do that, there really isn't much point in upgrading it all. It has no benefits for a gamer and companies won't want it either, because it means re-training staff to use an OS that has no additional benefits.

 

I think this sums it up well. W8 is about Microsoft moving their OS model to cover phones/tablets/PCs under one apparent OS, rather then anything quantum event like for PCs. They pretty much have to do this if they are going to be a player in the tablet space. Maybe at some point... we become very touch screen oriented in the desktop environment..... but I doubt that will include MMO play.

 

TL;DR it's a "don't care" in terms of MMO game play on the PC other then it introduces an excuse for Bioware to not support you on a game issue (since you use an unsupported release of the OS, UNTIL they announce formally they support it) and any OS upgrade to an existing PC introduces risk of injecting problems rather then solving problems. Each person must decide for themselves on this.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Andryah

[Etapi]

I didnt say report the differences, I said (pretty clearly I thought) compare performance, and apparently you dont, because you are running different operating systems on different hardware, so you cant possibly know what sort of performance changes can be expected by anyone upgrading on the same hardware. Anyone's monkey can go slide the metro tiles around and decide if they like it or not, that's not comparing os's, that's comparing interfaces.

 

 

 

I assume you are being facetious about pc sales figures... they are projected to drop by 1 whole percent in 2013. Yeah, pretty doom and gloom. But I do agree, as I said it's obvious to anyone with eyes that Win8 is Ballmer's push to get entrenched into the phone/tablet/surface market. Gonna be uphill getting developers to code for WinRT, but it should be easier with time.

 

And side note, I've been working with computers since before home computers existed, when output came from a printer instead of a monitor, and input was punch card based lol... take that you whippersnapper! (Please dont remind me about topview.)

 

 

Again, you are making assumptions, my main PC that I have Win8 installed on is in fact currently set up for dual boot on separate SSD drives, so I can directly compare performance, and WIn8 is far superior. I never said anything about Metro myself, although it does only take moments to learn it.

 

I never said anything about PC sales, so no, I am not being facetious about anything. As far as whippersnappers go, sorry, I also learned on punch card PC's with printer output. Don't want to burst your bubble, but my opinions are pretty well informed, and based on actual observations.

[NasherUK]

I think this sums it up well. W8 is about Microsoft moving their OS model to cover phones/tablets/PCs under one apparent OS, rather then anything quantum event like for PCs. They pretty much have to do this if they are going to be a player in the tablet space. Maybe at some point... we become very touch screen oriented in the desktop environment..... but I doubt that will include MMO play.

.

 

That won't happen though, no one uses a touchscreen on a desktop PC. ITts a lot slower than using a mouse and your arm would get tired very quickly.

[Liquidacid]

That won't happen though, no one uses a touchscreen on a desktop PC. ITts a lot slower than using a mouse and your arm would get tired very quickly.

 

eh not to mention the fact you have finger smudges on your monitor 24/7

[Andryah]

That won't happen though, no one uses a touchscreen on a desktop PC. ITts a lot slower than using a mouse and your arm would get tired very quickly.

 

I agree there has to be some compelling event, which does not yet exist. But... so many things are part and parcel to a desktop experience today that were not 5 or 10 years ago. Right now, the only one I see in W8 is touch based login... which looks great and advances the state of the art... but since touch screen displays are uncommon for desktops/laptops... it's largely pointless at the moment.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Andryah

[Andryah]

eh not to mention the fact you have finger smudges on your monitor 24/7

 

Imagine how filthy your keys must be then. at least with a screen... you know it will get cleaned every now and then.

[Liquidacid]

Imagine how filthy your keys must be then. at least with a screen... you know it will get cleaned every now and then.

 

man I have one of those waterproof keyboards that rolls up... you can put it in the dishwasher even