It's Time

[Ozdogg]

to stop queuing Pre-made groups with those who are queuing solo. The benefits of third party communication software allow four or more people (its not that hard to get two Pre-mades in the same warzone on the same side) to roll eight random people. Being DPS'd like a target dummy through four losses shouldn't be the only way to get a daily done.

[UGLYMRJ]

PvP is meant to be competitive.... if you want pre-mades to stop rolling you in regular war zones... complete the following steps.

 

1. Form a group or guild

2. Get geared

3. Be competitive

4. Organize and work well as a team

5. Queue for rated

 

Guilds are rolling pre mades in regular war zones because people are not queuing for rated. Instead of being competitive and taking some licks... they're backing down and joining the regular queue.

 

Also... we queue at the same time with 2 groups pretty consistently when we have 6-7 players and our success rate is about 1/5 at best for getting on the same team. Most of the time when we do get into the same war zone we're on opposite teams so from my experience I'd have to say your assumption is false.

 

In the end... this game is based around players working together. There are guilds and groups for a reason. To encourage team work. Your complaint is really about too much team work on a game that is based around that very concept?

 

Join a guild... form a group... and join us on planet earth for some good old fashioned PvP.

[ZomgAChicken]

They won't fix pvp, they're too busy giving us another companion.

[foxmob]

heh. deleted bad day. Edited October 22, 2012 by foxmob

[UberDuberSoldat]

that's a dick response. I don't have a huge problem with partial premades, but that's a dick response. it's supposed to be competitive? they aren't rateds. and premades make it uncompetitive.

 

that said, jedi covenant just have a lot better rep and most of the good imps rolled rep.

 

You're a dimwit. PvP is suppossed to be competitve, and you want to punish people for doing well in that competition. Get out. Leave. Go play another fairy MMO, this one isn't for you.

[UGLYMRJ]

that's a dick response. I don't have a huge problem with partial premades, but that's a dick response. it's supposed to be competitive? they aren't rateds. and premades make it uncompetitive.

 

that said, jedi covenant just have a lot better rep and most of the good imps rolled rep.

 

If you mean my response... it's not meant to be rude... just honest.

 

People want the competitiveness to be brought DOWN to their level... instead of bringing their level UP. If that same mind set was brought into any competitive sport, or the work place, that idea would be laughed at and it should be laughed at here.

 

Regular war zones AND rated should ALL be competitive. NO ONE should be going out of their way to make things easier for anyone. I roll groups and when possible well made groups based on class to increase my chances of winning. Why wouldn't I push the odds in my favor?

 

He should do the same is all I'm saying... not the other way around.

 

This lack of competitiveness is rampant throughout the game and that mentality is what is hurting PvP most.

Edited October 22, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Boyana]

Why don't people, when playing against premades, take that as a challenge and work hard to give the maximum in order to win and learn something new? It is possible and happens.

I remember once, on my old server, there was a premade in Huttball. That premade had really good players, tactics and used to win Huttball in less that a minute.

My PuG team did not win but we made sure to give them a hard time. We lost 0:1.

[foxmob]

You're a dimwit. PvP is suppossed to be competitve, and you want to punish people for doing well in that competition. Get out. Leave. Go play another fairy MMO, this one isn't for you.

 

lol puleeze. the second rep got the upper hand on canderous ordo, the remaining "good" imps rolled rep and joined the good rep guilds. it's the same on the superserver jedi covenant. that's not "being competitive." that's running away and taking the path of least resistence.

 

which, btw, is what "good" players do: they only run with "good" players and then brag about stomping lesser players who aren't even in premades. I'm not cryin' about it, but don't act like it isn't exactly what it is: the rich get richer and poor get poorer. oooh you're a dimwit. ooo you suck. blah blah. please.

[Joesixxpack]

OP, where should two or three buddies or guildies queueing up together be put? Not a premade in the RWZ sense, with augs coming out their ears and clearly defined roles, but just a few casuals teaming up together.

 

Should they be allowed only in RWZ?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Joesixxpack

[SovereignConvict]

PvP is meant to be competitive.... if you want pre-mades to stop rolling you in regular war zones... complete the following steps.

 

1. Form a group or guild (takes more time than queuing solo)

2. Get geared (takes more time)

3. Be competitive (not sure how someone alters their "competitiveness")

4. Organize and work well as a team (takes more time than queuing solo)

5. Queue for rated (takes more time than queuing solo)...

 

It is never a good argument to counter someone's suggestion with the proposition that they invest more time into the game.

 

Solo queuing offers the easiest and fastest way for players to enjoy PvP content.

 

Also, allowing for solo queues has no direct causation for impacting the enjoyment of people that wish to continue to form groups and play cooperatively. The oft cited argument that queues deliver a finite number of players from the same pool of available players is fallacious. Though I haven't seen the specific data from SWTOR, the data I've seen from at least 12 other MMOs that I've worked on always shows the same correlation. Players with time that want to play in groups will do that, even if there is a solo option.

 

I greatly enjoy PvP in this game, even more so when I have the time to join up with my guild and play. However, software doesn't develop itself, so I'm still required to work 60+ hours a week.

 

Your argument that players should adjust their lives so that their free time can be more inline with your own time resources and also suggest that they enjoy working and collaborating as much as you do with others is a terrible way to run a business.

 

It is a common meme that MMO players operate under that for some reason makes them think, "This product is an MMO, therefore, all people should be doing exactly what I think it is that makes MMOs great in order to enjoy it, and should just leave if they're unwilling to participate the way I think they should."

 

When in fact, an MMO is just like any other product, and businesses ask themselves, "How can I make my product appeal to as many people as possible, and hopefully, make it appealing to everyone?"

 

Providing both solo and group queues is definitely something I would like, because I'm a fan of options. However, it would be much more of a cogent argument to wonder what the "community reaction" to solo queues would be. If the introduction of a particular game change would cause a large enough group of paying players to leave, then it is definitely something that BioWare should look at before considering making that alteration. Which, I'm sure, is something they've considered.

[SovereignConvict]

Why don't people, when playing against premades, take that as a challenge and work hard to give the maximum in order to win and learn something new? It is possible and happens.

I remember once, on my old server, there was a premade in Huttball. That premade had really good players, tactics and used to win Huttball in less that a minute.

My PuG team did not win but we made sure to give them a hard time. We lost 0:1.

 

A fun loss is always more gratifying to me than an easy win. I wish that were true for a large percentage of people concerning all facets of life.

[Joesixxpack]

A fun loss is always more gratifying to me than an easy win. I wish that were true for a large percentage of people concerning all facets of life.

 

Fun win > fun loss > easy win.

[UGLYMRJ]

It is never a good argument to counter someone's suggestion with the proposition that they invest more time into the game.

 

I'm not saying that they HAVE to... but this is a game based around team play and casuals will suffer because of it. It's not a fault in game design... it's a fault in the players who choose not to take advantage of the choices given to them. We have many casual PvP'ers in our guild who are mainly PvE focused. But when they PvP they group up within the guild and greatly increase their chances of a win. These guys are at least doing something to increase their chances of winning. Simply by making friends and forming a group.

 

I'm simply suggesting to take advantage of the tools given to all of us if it's really that frustrating. Being a casual of any game will have it's draw backs and that draw back is going to be less wins. It doesn't matter what online game you're talking about... if losing is frustrating... practice and form a group. To me this seems like the point of online games. What would be the point of guilds, clans, groups if not to take advantage of them to become more competitive?

 

If someone CHOOSES to be casual, not group up, and not work on improving game play they certainly have no base for their complaints. This goes for ANY online game. This is the reason as to why I limit my own online gaming to 2 or maybe 3 different games at the most. I don't have the time to dedicate to more than that and still remain competitive.

 

Solo queuing and pugging is like a coin flip... if he's tired of getting rolled why not put the odds in his favor instead of asking for an easy mode button?

Edited October 22, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[L-RANDLE]

Fun win > fun loss > easy win.

Winning ugly is just as good as winning pretty in my book. I never have a "fun" loss, whether lop-sided or "competitive". If anything, the "competitve" losses P me off even more than a non-competitive losses, which normally boils down to one person (myself included)making a dumb mistake.

[TUXs]

Winning ugly is just as good as winning pretty in my book. I never have a "fun" loss, whether lop-sided or "competitive". If anything, the "competitve" losses P me off even more than a non-competitive losses, which normally boils down to one person (myself included)making a dumb mistake.

 

As Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".

 

I've won with an 8 man full PuG group and lost with a 2 group pre-made. Gear and the group make-up, make all the difference, it's not about solo vs. pre-mades only.

[DarthFamine]

I like games that are competitive. If we get facerolled (or do some facerolling) and nobody gets any medals whats the point?

but a good match where both teams are in the hunt so to speak is always alot more fun.

[Jadescythe]

It's time... to group up or shut up.

 

I solo queue all the time and don't have problems with competing. The problem in 90% of cases complaining about PVP are gear or skill related. Either you/your team doesn't have gear or you/your team doesn't have skill. You don't complain about playing against decently geared premades that are just grouped up to have fun with their friends, it's only when there are a few really good players together that the complaints start coming. So essentially you are mad that 4 skilled players and 4 other people beat you. If you got rolled, those same people without knowing each other beforehand still would have rolled you anyway in a random grouping.

 

If you like winning, then group with some people, get into ranked. It's what the best players want you to do anyway. As the ever present MRJ suggests, don't dumb the competition down to you, rise to meet the challenge.

[SovereignConvict]

I'm not saying that they HAVE to... but this is a game based around team play and casuals will suffer because of it...

 

That I definitely agree with.

 

So I'd say, "If you are going to continue PvPing with the options available to you right now, and you no longer want the frustration of queuing solo, then get involved (time permitting)."

 

Although, I'd also throw in, "Hit the forums and let Dev know what you'd like, too!"

 

 

As much as most development departments realize that the perspectives presented in the forums are not necessarily indicative of the general player base, they still ALWAYS get a mention.

[L-RANDLE]

As Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".

 

 

:-)

 

/5char

[Ssfbistimg]

premades go down just like pugs. If you stab them they will bleed. The best feeling you can ever get from pvp is when beating a premade while in a pure pug, and just knowing that they are raging and blaming the pugs they had on their team.

[UGLYMRJ]

If you like winning, then group with some people, get into ranked. It's what the best players want you to do anyway. As the ever present MRJ suggests, don't dumb the competition down to you, rise to meet the challenge.

 

Basically this is the TL;DR version of my rant today.

 

Although, I'd also throw in, "Hit the forums and let Dev know what you'd like, too!"

 

There is no way for the game to fix that... that's a fix that only a player can make. Even if they had a "casual queue" people would group up, join and wreck face just for the hell of it. Same reason why some people twink. People will always be looking for an advantage in online games. There is always a way to give yourself one. The safest and most consistent route is to group up and practice.

 

I don't think there is any logical way for a developer to fix this.... I've never seen it for any game and I think it would be even more difficult in this one. It is solely on the players shoulders to lift the burden of losing.

Edited October 22, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[foxmob]

look. there's noway bw can stop grp Qing. it would punish ppl for wanting to play a social game with their friends. that, and that alone, is a reason I would be opposed to getting rid of partials. whether there should be a solo only pool...well...iunno. I think that would definitely affect the pop rates, but it may just mean more same faction matches in grps. but then you have the problem of pairing odd numbered grps. so it's grps of 2 or 4 or solo. I don't think that will be well received for the rationale in my first sentence.

 

as for a weak player complaining to make the game come down to his level, that's not even the argument in the topic. a premade, in fact, does just the opposite. it stacks the "good" players against the weaker ones, who are in pugs to begin with as opposed to the grp of LD50s that have been rolling imps all day today. so "get better," like "L2P" looks, to me, like a trolling, insulting response. and btw, nothing wrong with not being an elite player. nothing wrong with getting rolled by one. something wrong, unfun, and ultimately...probably game killing to send casual pugs up against elite premades (who are, to be fair, often waiting for rateds to pop). hey, I get it. I don't have anything against the guys grouping, waiting for rated, or w/e. again though, it's long term bad for the game, and short term, can you really blame anybody for being pissed off cuz he just q'd for 4 straight matches where he had absolutely no chance the second the q popped?

 

one last scenario: good player. good guild. solo Q. sees a bunch of undergeared or inexperienced players on same side. good to elite partials on other faction. good player (99% of the time!) does one of two things: 1) insults, curses and mocks own team; 2) leaves match or simply stops Qing until his buddies come online because he knows it's hopeless/frustrating to Q atm. how is that good for anyone?

[Joesixxpack]

:-)

 

/5char

 

That's a great friggin' quote.

 

Edit: And oops, I quoted you instead of the guy who posted it -.-

Edited October 22, 2012 by Joesixxpack

[TUXs]

one last scenario: good player. good guild. solo Q. sees a bunch of undergeared or inexperienced players on same side. good to elite partials on other faction. good player (99% of the time!) does one of two things: 1) insults, curses and mocks own team; 2) leaves match or simply stops Qing until his buddies come online because he knows it's hopeless/frustrating to Q atm. how is that good for anyone?

 

Meh...may happen, but I find that 9/10 times, the dude complaining about "bads" on his team, is generally the absolute LOWEST in DPS, protection, healing and objectives. Nothing pleases me more than calling out whiners like this.

[UGLYMRJ]

look. there's noway bw can stop grp Qing. it would punish ppl for wanting to play a social game with their friends.

 

as for a weak player complaining to make the game come down to his level, that's not even the argument in the topic. a premade, in fact, does just the opposite. it stacks the "good" players against the weaker ones, who are in pugs to begin with as opposed to the grp of LD50s that have been rolling imps all day today. so "get better," like "L2P" looks, to me, like a trolling, insulting response.

 

 

This is my point... there is no fix that the game can make... the only fix needs to be made by the player. The only way to counter "stacks of good players" is to create one yourself.