25% HP Requirement for Undying Rage

[Royox]

That's the bottom line. As a PT or Vanguard or Madness-Assassin or Balance-Shadow, you are a 10m range class. If you can't kite at 10m it is STRICTLY l2p. Plenty of amazing PTs, but few Madness Assassins because they have a very complex and intensive rotation (very rare to see elite Madness Assassin PVP), who own melee classes. Learn to kite. Don't stand still. Unbind backpeddle. Rebind A and D to strafe left and strafe right. And learn to keep the melee classes out of 4m and within 10m range. I can't make it any clearer than that. If you continue to QQ and refuse to become a better player, that is on you. I can only give you so much advice to beat a Mara. It is ridiculous that you guys are refusing to kite. ***? You want a E Z WIN button? A 10k railshot? Go practice kiting.

 

 

Again. How can I kite with my vanguard a class that haves 2 jumps, 1 +30% speed boost, 2 Slow-mo skills? I don't have sprints or **** to run more. U have 3 skills to reach me and 2 to make me move slower.

 

I only have Cryo nade and Mental Surge as Stunning Skills. 1 has to be used when u use that "can't kill me skill" the other EVERY VANGUARD says "when he jumps at you" so I have no stuns for kiting.

 

 

I swear if this is a L2P problem plz explain what to do in vanguard's thread cause there nobody knows what to do.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Royox

[AIRCONGO]

Again. How can I kite with my vanguard a class that haves 2 jumps, 1 +30% speed boost, 2 Slow-mo skills? I don't have sprints or **** to run more. U have 3 skills to reach me and 2 to make me move slower.

 

I only have Cryo nade and Mental Surge as Stunning Skills. 1 has to be used when u use that "can't kill me skill" the other EVERY VANGUARD says "when he jumps at you" so I have no stuns for kiting.

 

 

I swear if this is a L2P problem plz explain what to do in vanguard's thread cause there nobody knows what to do.

 

We only get 2 Gap closers in Rage. You should easily kill a rage spec as its minimal survivability. Just cc us when we use undying...plenty good vanguards on our server who use cc when maras pop it. Plus why would you want us to use it at 25%? that'll just cause more people to qq that we are cheap using it against other classes executes...

[AsiriusNazriel]

Again. How can I kite with my vanguard a class that haves 2 jumps, 1 +30% speed boost, 2 Slow-mo skills? I don't have sprints or **** to run more. U have 3 skills to reach me and 2 to make me move slower.

 

I only have Cryo nade and Mental Surge as Stunning Skills. 1 has to be used when u use that "can't kill me skill" the other EVERY VANGUARD says "when he jumps at you" so I have no stuns for kiting.

 

 

I swear if this is a L2P problem plz explain what to do in vanguard's thread cause there nobody knows what to do.

 

Vanguards/PTs have a shorter TTK than Rage/Focus spec. You should be able to kill one in a 1v1 situation. If you can't then it is either gear, l2p, or a combination of the two. Rage/Focus is only percieved as OP when you have people on your team bunching up in groups and you get 2-3 of these guys AOEing everyone into respawn, otherwise the spec is squishy and can be burned down pretty fast.

Edited October 26, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[Royox]

Vanguards/PTs have a shorter TTK than Rage/Focus spec. You should be able to kill one in a 1v1 situation. If you can't then it is either gear, l2p, or a combination of the two. Rage/Focus is only percieved as OP when you have people on your team bunching up in groups and you get 2-3 of these guys AOEing everyone into respawn, otherwise the spec is squishy and can be burned down pretty fast.

 

How can i know if a Mara/jugg is Rage? I only know when they use Crush on me :_________

[RankorSSGS]

How can i know if a Mara/jugg is Rage? I only know when they use Crush on me :_________

 

That right there is your problem. I'll give you a hint: look up the icon for sii cho form.

[jersyiii]

wait the powertechs and vanguards are complaining that they can get killed???

 

 

hahaha, what a joke :')

evryone seem to forget there, that if all the mara's cd's are blown, the mara dies in 5 seconds

[Siorac]

wait the powertechs and vanguards are complaining that they can get killed???

 

hahaha, what a joke :')

evryone seem to forget there, that if all the mara's cd's are blown, the mara dies in 5 seconds

 

That's true of every DPS spec. But none of the others have nearly as powerful defensive CDs as Marauders/Sentinels.

[AsiriusNazriel]

That's true of every DPS spec. But none of the others have nearly as powerful defensive CDs as Marauders/Sentinels.

 

Yes they do.

 

Saberward gives 50% bonus to defense rating and the 25% damage reduction only affects force/tech attacks, the 25% does not affect white damage. The Trooper bubble gives 25% damage reduction to all damage. They're practically the same thing, minus the CD difference of 3min for Saberward and 2min for Trooper bubble.

 

Maras/Sents are a melee class, Vanguards/PTs are not, they are a 10m class, melee is 4m.

 

Someone was complaining that they can't do any damage because if they stop running away the melee class will close distance and get into 4m range. True, which is why you never stop running away, that's the nature of your class. You run away and kite or you go toe to toe with a melee and you die. The other option is to reroll to another class.

 

Let's look at what it says.

 

Vanguard/Powertech: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/trooper/vanguard

Sentinel/Marauder: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/jedi-knight/sentinel

 

One says close quarters, one says melee. Vanguards and Powertechs are not melee, so they should not be engaging a melee class in a 1on1 toe to toe, they should be kiting.

 

I know, a very difficult concept for the Vanguards who like to read Marauder threads, and post on our boards. I will repeat it over and over to you guys, L-E-A-R-N T-O K-I-T-E.

[Royox]

Yes they do.

 

Saberward gives 50% bonus to defense rating and the 25% damage reduction only affects force/tech attacks, the 25% does not affect white damage. The Trooper bubble gives 25% damage reduction to all damage. They're practically the same thing, minus the CD difference of 3min for Saberward and 2min for Trooper bubble.

 

Maras/Sents are a melee class, Vanguards/PTs are not, they are a 10m class, melee is 4m.

 

Someone was complaining that they can't do any damage because if they stop running away the melee class will close distance and get into 4m range. True, which is why you never stop running away, that's the nature of your class. You run away and kite or you go toe to toe with a melee and you die. The other option is to reroll to another class.

 

Let's look at what it says.

 

Vanguard/Powertech: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/trooper/vanguard

Sentinel/Marauder: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/jedi-knight/sentinel

 

One says close quarters, one says melee. Vanguards and Powertechs are not melee, so they should not be engaging a melee class in a 1on1 toe to toe, they should be kiting.

 

I know, a very difficult concept for the Vanguards who like to read Marauder threads, and post on our boards. I will repeat it over and over to you guys, L-E-A-R-N T-O K-I-T-E.

 

 

FFS VANGUARD IS MELEE CLASS. Stockstrike has 4m and Gut has 4m Range. Their are one of our most importatn skills.

 

 

" L-E-A-R-N T-O K-I-T-E."

 

HOW DO YOU KITE A STUPID CLASS WITH 2 JUMPS, 3 SLOW MO, 2 SPEED BUFFS, 3 DEFENSIVE CD'S AND GRIP. WITH A CLASS THAT ONLY HAS A STUPID SHIELD, 1 RANGED STUN AND 1 MELEE STUN.

 

 

 

U told me 2 days ago "u have to kill Rage maras". Well...I CAN'T. Today 1 Rage mara killed me and a Jedi Shadow at the same time and captured one turret of Alderaan. I have 17k Hp but the shadow has 19k and died. If winning a 2 vs 1 is not being OP for a Melee pure DPS class I don't know what is it.

[PowerReaper]

After just reading this thread...

[Royox]

Said by other vanguard on other Thread:

 

I love this advice: kite the Marauder/Sentinel! Use your shield!

 

The shield has a 2 minute cooldown, Force Leap has a 15 second one. Your advice also assumes that the Marauder/Sentinel in question is an utter idiot who 1) doesn't use Leg Slash, 2) doesn't use Force Exhaustion/Crush if Rage/Focus specced, 2) doesn't use Cauterize to slow you down in Anni/Watchman spec, 3) doesn't root the living cr*p out of you in the spec that is BUILT for rooting. I won't even mention the speed boost of Ataru form. Oh, and there's Transcendence/Predation. There is Obliterate/Zealous Leap in Rage/Focus. There is the NO MINIMUM RANGE Force Leap in Annihilation/Watchman. Every single spec gets more than enough tools to prevent effective kiting.

 

With an Assault Vanguard, it's a DPS race against a Marauder. Kiting them isn't really an option, as Ion Pulse slows them only by 30% while Leg Slash does by 50%. No knockback either; Cryo Grenade have to be saved for I'mwinning Rage while the AoE stun must be reserved for Ravage. An Assault Vanguard must hope that 1) his shield is available while Saber Ward isn't, 2) pray for nice fat crits on Sticky Grenade, Assault Plastique and High Impact Bolt. They, at least, have the burst to bring a Marauder down. Though you have to expect at least one Obfuscated High Impact Bolt if the Mara in question is competent.

 

Marauders/Sentinels have very high damage, a huge array of anti-kiting tools, extremely powerful defensive cooldowns and no resource issues whatsoever. It's the perfect, complete AC.

[AsiriusNazriel]

FFS VANGUARD IS MELEE CLASS. Stockstrike has 4m and Gut has 4m Range. Their are one of our most importatn skills.

 

 

" L-E-A-R-N T-O K-I-T-E."

 

HOW DO YOU KITE A STUPID CLASS WITH 2 JUMPS, 3 SLOW MO, 2 SPEED BUFFS, 3 DEFENSIVE CD'S AND GRIP. WITH A CLASS THAT ONLY HAS A STUPID SHIELD, 1 RANGED STUN AND 1 MELEE STUN.

 

 

 

U told me 2 days ago "u have to kill Rage maras". Well...I CAN'T. Today 1 Rage mara killed me and a Jedi Shadow at the same time and captured one turret of Alderaan. I have 17k Hp but the shadow has 19k and died. If winning a 2 vs 1 is not being OP for a Melee pure DPS class I don't know what is it.

 

For you it's a definite gear issue. 17k HP means that you have half of your BM gear and it surely isn't itemized.

 

Secondly, stick to a specific spec. If a Mara has 2 jumps, then they only have 1 slow. If a Mara has 2 slows, then they only have 1 jump. Maras only have 1 speed buff. You don't know how the class works and you seem to be talking nonsense. Roll a Mara or Sent and figure things out on your own. Suffice to say that from a guy who has played this since before launch, when we didn't have our reflective shield, your analysis is wrong.

 

As far as perfect AC, I disagree. Maras don't have a pull or push. Maras don't have a stealth option like Assassins/Shadows. Maras don't have a dedicated self heal option such as Sorcs/Sages who turn the corner and replenish their health and get back into the fray. Maras/Sents aren't designed for this. They are designed to kill things. They are a DPS class. So are Vangaurds.

Edited October 28, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[Royox]

For you it's a definite gear issue. 17k HP means that you have half of your BM gear and it surely isn't itemized.

 

Secondly, stick to a specific spec. If a Mara has 2 jumps, then they only have 1 slow. If a Mara has 2 slows, then they only have 1 jump. Maras only have 1 speed buff. You don't know how the class works and you seem to be talking nonsense. Roll a Mara or Sent and figure things out on your own. Suffice to say that from a guy who has played this since before launch, when we didn't have our reflective shield, your analysis is wrong.

 

As far as perfect AC, I disagree. Maras don't have a pull or push. Maras don't have a stealth option like Assassins/Shadows. Maras don't have a dedicated self heal option such as Sorcs/Sages who turn the corner and replenish their health and get back into the fray. Maras/Sents aren't designed for this. They are designed to kill things. They are a DPS class. So are Vangaurds.

 

Lol dude. Rage marauder have 2 Jumps, Crush (slow) and at leas the melee slow hit. I have a lvl 30 marauder Rage and I have 1 slow Skill and 2 jumps. Crush will come with last skill.

 

They are designed to kill things. They are a DPS class. So are Vangaurds.

 

Ok. I want all the defensive skills a marauder have as he is a DPS class and I am too. And a Speed boost for ALL vanguards (not only tactics) and a Slow mo skill that slows 50% not 30%, and a Stun that deals damage on time.

 

Vanguard can only win with overdamaging a Marauder.

 

pd: yes, I have only Full "right part" of War Hero and Weapon. I need all the "right part" of my char window.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Royox

[AsiriusNazriel]

Having WH gear don't mean crap. If I have a fully itemized BM set then I will destroy your toon who is in his 'stock' WH set. There is that much dps difference.

 

Secondly, it is a dps race against a Rage Jugg/Mara that you should win because your DPS is higher than that of a same geared Rage toon. Vanguards/PTs have a higher DPS, as it gets parsed, than a Rage spec.

 

Thirdly, if you think that having a channeled stun is better than having a 4sec non-channeled stun, you have a serious problem in the value you put into abilities. 4seconds would be enough for a good player to rip through you without taking any damage.

 

This has gotten out of hand, we've hijacked the thread and I'm not gonna have any more of it. If you want to QQ and blame Maras instead of gearing up and becoming a better player, that's your call. You got recommendations, you got advice, you seem to want to blame everything and everyone on your inability to be effective, that's your right. Have a good day.

[Eyesmindassassin]

There's no way you have full WH with 17k HP. I don't know why you're lying. Either way, once you get geared you will realize how easily you can kill most Marauders. It really is a gear/L2P issue with you. Trust me. When I run into a geared PT and they get opener, it's an uphill battle that requires blowing all CD's to possibly barely win. They usually open with a stun and burst me to almost no HP in which I am forced to Undying Rage and play catch up. With your suggested change, geared PT's would 100-0 any Mara they opened on that didn't have a dedicated healer. Good PT's also throw down a Stealth Scan right as I Camo to instantly bring me out of Stealth and I also have a snare on me so I can't get away anyway. Edited October 29, 2012 by Eyesmindassassin

[Viraxis]

I (and others on my server) consider myself a good sent/marauder. I have played one (actually 2 marauder and sent) since about a month after launch. The class I most fear is a vanguard/PT especially the ones spec pyrotech. As a annihilation/watchment spec, I can win against a good VG/PT only if I have most or all of my cooldowns. Even then if they are good at kiting in that 4 to 10m rng, its very painful. When I toyed with Rage and carnage spec, there was no possible way to beat the VG/PT if they know there class and don't screw up their rotations.

[Royox]

I (and others on my server) consider myself a good sent/marauder. I have played one (actually 2 marauder and sent) since about a month after launch. The class I most fear is a vanguard/PT especially the ones spec pyrotech. As a annihilation/watchment spec, I can win against a good VG/PT only if I have most or all of my cooldowns. Even then if they are good at kiting in that 4 to 10m rng, its very painful. When I toyed with Rage and carnage spec, there was no possible way to beat the VG/PT if they know there class and don't screw up their rotations.

 

How do they kite you? U have 2 slow mo, 2 jumps, Stasis, and a 30% speed buff when u in stealth. Vanguard Assault only has -30% speed reduction when our fire deals damage.

[Cindikle]

How do they kite you? U have 2 slow mo, 2 jumps, Stasis, and a 30% speed buff when u in stealth. Vanguard Assault only has -30% speed reduction when our fire deals damage.

 

Your energy shield when talented for pvp breaks our snare.

Use your AoE stun for a gap closer

One of those jumps is a min range of 10m unless you're anni spec. Not hard to fit in, but that's still time they're trying to get in range while you're blasting away.

Always be moving, If you're moving when they start Ravage and don't stop, you will not only out range that last hit, but out range the marauder.

Stasis itself is weak damage. Again if you keep moving you can avoid the Smash that would come after. Even with it's improved activation speed.

 

It's not about keeping us between 4m-10m the whole time. It's about doing it most of the time while putting out your max dps. That's where you take the lead.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Cindikle