Stupid F2P Restrictions

[Urael]

No free games? lol ok. I have at least 3 right now that I have not paid a penny for and likely never will. They make their money through advertising and charging for cosmetics etc that people that are crazy about the game will.

 

Considering your change in tune I can only conclude you're either trying to backpedal, didn't understand what you were actually saying, or a ridiculous and pointless troll. In any event I'm done having this absurd conversation, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are just talking to see your name in print.

 

The advertising is a "form of payment" to the user also IF the user does not want to see advertising. In fact, many games that use this model bank on that so they can get the users of these products to pay a fee to get rid of the adds. There is some form of payment. For you, you don't mind seeing the adds, for others it may be a problem. There are no free games.

 

I have "changed no tune" and didn't really personally attack you? Interesting you feel the need to do so. What you illustrated is the "I'll take my ball and go home" form of "winning" an arguement (where there was none to begin with in this case). Should I have said: "U mad bro"?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Urael

[DarthMeerkat]

Considering I highly approve of the LOTRO F2P model, you'll have to do a great job of convincing me why EQ2 gets all those ">"'s

 

EQ2's entire game is open for free. The only bad thing about it was the fact that you for 2.50$ you'd have to buy 5 gear/master spell unlocks that you needed for better gear.

 

LOTRO left a bad taste in my mouth as soon as I got bored grinding wolf kills for an hour.

[BadOrb]

So this is very interesting , I take it all the people who post here are subbed am I correct ? So they will get some free cartel coins. Also people who used to play ( they need to sub re-sub before F2P hits ) will get some too. So are we talking about new customers ? If not then you will have some cartel coins guys to spend on your sprint level 1 and for the use of purple items ( depending on he price ) for free , so I am really shocked at the amount of complaints. If it's about new customers then they aren't going to know what a purple item is even and if they feel like they can't win that sprint to the finish then they will purchase the sprint level 1. I didn't even buy a speeder on about 4 characters until month 5 or so , as I thought saving up my money for rank 2 for some characters was a better option , that was until I saw Voss .

 

So overall until we know the price of these WZ / FP passes , purple item restriction lifts , sprint level 1 etc etc then You need not worry. One large worry is maybe some of the old subbed players who have left will get a shock if they don't sub as in right now or the next week or so , because they won't get anything if they don't.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited October 17, 2012 by BadOrb

[Coldin]

EQ2's entire game is open for free. The only bad thing about it was the fact that you for 2.50$ you'd have to buy 5 gear/master spell unlocks that you needed for better gear.

 

LOTRO left a bad taste in my mouth as soon as I got bored grinding wolf kills for an hour.

 

I don't approve of charging players to equip gear they earned.

 

And if LOTRO left a bad taste in your mouth for grinding wolf kills for an hour.....how can you like EQ2 then? You really don't need to grind wolves if you don't want to. If it was to earn deeds for points, there's better ways of accomplishing that, usually by completing quests and earning reputation.

[EzoEo]

Yeah a few I'd like to point out that I've not seen in other F2P games before.

 

A restriction on Death for F2P users, this isn't going to go down well, after 5 deaths you have to purchase a license to stop dying at the nearest point.

 

Sprint at level 1 disabled?

 

Purchase a weekly pass for flash points, nobody does flash points enough for you to provide it as a weekly pass?

 

Emergency fleet pass restrictions, gotta pay money to get an 18 hour cool down, good luck with that.

 

You might as well start charging people 50 cartel coins to login, or 50 cartel coins to buy an item from a vendor or to be able to sell.

 

Some of the features are stupid and retarded and you will get nothing but public out roar over it. Yes, I'm well aware some people can live without these features.

 

But i don't like it and im paying user who's been subscribed since release and i think some of these free to play changes are ridiculous, it's gotten to the point that the cash shop won't just be a content / cosmetic feature, but you people at Bioware will force new players to pay for most of the ground up features that are free in other games, so good luck with this plan because if you go through with it, it will most likely fail.

 

I'm shock that the point of Free to Play is for free players to spend money.

 

If people don't want restrictions either subscribe monthly or play another MMO.

[Coldin]

So this is very interesting , I take it all the people who post here are subbed am I correct ? So they will get some free cartel coins. Also people who used to play ( they need to sub re-sub before F2P hits ) will get some too. So are we talking about new customers ? If not then you will have some cartel coins guys to spend on your sprint level 1 and for the use of purple items ( depending on he price ) for free , so I am really shocked at the amount of complaints. If it's about new customers then they aren't going to know what a purple item is even and if they feel like they can't win that sprint to the finish then they will purchase the sprint level 1. I didn't even buy a speeder on about 4 characters until month 5 or so , as I thought saving up my money for rank 2 for some characters was a better option , that was until I saw Voss .

 

So overall until we know the price of these WZ / FP passes , purple item restriction lifts , sprint level 1 etc etc then You need not worry. One large worry is maybe some of the old subbed players who have left will get a shock if they don't sub as in right now or the next week or so , because they won't get anything if they don't.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

 

Yes. Everyone able to post on the forums are subscribers, or at least haven't let their current subscription lapse yet.

 

While you say not to worry, I feel it's better to make a fuss about matters beforehand. We know enough details to make basic informed opinions on certain aspects of their F2P model, and so that's what we are commenting on. For myself, it really doesn't matter how much these weekly passes cost, or how much purple gear unlocks cost, I still think they are bad ideas.

[Halkyon]

I think it would be prudent to have the 5 field revives on a regenerating cooldown like 24 hours or a week, but otherwise this all seems pretty reasonable considering you're getting so much AAA quality content for absolutely nothing. Edited October 17, 2012 by Halkyon

[thanosmadtitan]

this thread makes me realize the saying "beggars cant be choosers" obviously didnt have the internet!!!

[Sami]

I am completely baffled by those who keep harping on the notion that subscribers will be forced to buy things from the Cartel shop. There is nothing there for subscribers to purchase except vanity items (adaptive gear, pets, mounts, etc.). Subscribers get Cartel coins for every month they are subscribed. Based on the current FAQ, a subscriber can opt to use those coins to purchase some things that until now could only be purchased for credits (though they can still be purchased with credits), which will be a bit of a boon for those of us who are altaholics and always broke in-game. A subscriber could certainly be so bent on getting a specific armor set or something that s/he would also purchase more Cartel coins, but that is a choice. That nifty looking mount/armor/pet is most certainly not required to play the game to it's fullest.

 

And they are giving subscribers a way to get these things without paying more as long as they are willing to be a little bit patient and save the Cartel coins included with their subscription. This is certainly no more onerous than waiting to get the social level required to wear some of the social gear.

 

Of course EA/BW want people to pay for things. It's a business, and they can't pay people to develop the content that folks keep screaming for if the franchise has no income. Of course they don't want the f2p players to actually not pay anything. This is a business model, not a charity model. As a subscriber, I don't want to pay for f2p folks to get all the perks I have and have them pay nothing.

[xandrietta]

I honestly do not understand all the QQ about the f2p??

Of course its very limited and sucks, thats the idea.....to entice players to sub and get the full game in its glory.

 

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but it seems a lot of the complaining is players who want to go free, but still reap the benifits of full subscription access??

 

If you want a game you can play around with, and check some things out a few days a week, f2p is probably great for that.......If you want a full game that you can do whatever you want, as many times as you want a week, then shell out the 15bucks and enjoy:)

[Jaing]

I heavily favor the end-game content in TOR, so I'll keep my subscription going.

 

That said, I am cheap and would like to go F2P. Like many others, I like LotRO's F2P setup: Unlocks. Can't say I like the whole "weekly pass" for warzones, flashpoints, and operations. I'd personally prefer there be static unlocks. So pay X cartel coins to unlock Eternity Vault (story mode) on just one character, and pay more coins to unlock Karagga's Palace, or Explosive Conflict. You'd have to pay again on another character to unlock the same content, but it would be unlocked and available from now on. That is what would be ideal for me. I'd buy the operation unlocks for my operation characters, the PvP unlocks for my PvP characters, and other unlocks for other atls once I get them leveled.

That's not what Bioware has chosen to do. It's their game so it's their call. I personally wouldn't go F2P and then pay for PvP/Operations one week, then pay again another week, then pay again another week, on and on. So I'll stay subscription.

Again, give me some sort of F2P options where I could pay $50 in microtransactions to unlock the end-game stuff I want for each specific character and then play them with no more monthly cost, and I'd be all for it.

 

Couple points about what others have said:

 

People currently not paying for a subscription can play new alts up to 15, their high-level mains are completely out of reach. After F2P, if they choose to continue not paying, then they'll get to play their characters again, but won't get end-game gear or as much end-game content (and no raids).

 

The saying that "you get what you pay for" is incorrect for F2P TOR. Getting what you pay for would be NOT playing TOR if you pay $0 a month. Under free-to-play you will get the core of the game FOR FREE, and you'll have to pay, one way or another, for convinence and most end-game content. You get LOTS for free and can get more if you pay.

 

$15 a month for a sub too much for you? How much do you spend on coffee, soda, or bottled water in a month?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Jaing

[Oyranos]

the restrictions are 2 high... They will have to step back and unlock content, when they notice, that they loose the f2p players... Or else, they will loose alot..

 

f2p program is good if they handle it nicelly, but a trap if the handle it like a forcing system to make u pay.. they will fall into a trap.

 

Imagine that most of the players will turn into f2p. The only players will stay on sub plan, are the only guilds who greed the ops... And there not many!.. So if the plan forcing them to pay only if they want content, it will fail..

 

Pvp will be more fun with f2p plan, because the world, will turn into an arena!! hahahaha Its much easier for f2p players start killing each other in the world, than paying for warzones.. I wouldnt care about warzones if I was a dedicated pvp player...

 

They just have to make lots of content via expansions from now on, so they can sale retail stuff.. Thats my opinion.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Oyranos

[sithgreyguard]

Welcome to mmo's. Restrictions are part of f2p models.

[Imhotep]

Yeah a few I'd like to point out that I've not seen in other F2P games before.

 

A restriction on Death for F2P users, this isn't going to go down well, after 5 deaths you have to purchase a license to stop dying at the nearest point.

 

Sprint at level 1 disabled?

 

Purchase a weekly pass for flash points, nobody does flash points enough for you to provide it as a weekly pass?

 

Emergency fleet pass restrictions, gotta pay money to get an 18 hour cool down, good luck with that.

 

You might as well start charging people 50 cartel coins to login, or 50 cartel coins to buy an item from a vendor or to be able to sell.

 

Some of the features are stupid and retarded and you will get nothing but public out roar over it. Yes, I'm well aware some people can live without these features.

 

But i don't like it and im paying user who's been subscribed since release and i think some of these free to play changes are ridiculous, it's gotten to the point that the cash shop won't just be a content / cosmetic feature, but you people at Bioware will force new players to pay for most of the ground up features that are free in other games, so good luck with this plan because if you go through with it, it will most likely fail.

 

Um F2P shouldnt have the same features as P2P. These are all perfectly reasonable unless youre a leech who wants something for nothing.

 

Oh and by the way Boo f'n hoo on the no sprint at lvl 1. if you had been here on day 1 you would know we used to not get it till lvl 14.

[Sir-Coffee]

I know this is too late, but instead of making the game F2P, they should have dropped the sub down to $10.00 or less.

 

1). Allow players to sprint at level 1

2). Give players full character creation options(There aren't many to being with)

3). Increase the amount of warzones a week to 7 warzones(Same for flashpoints and space missions)

4). Give them Emergency Fleet(18 hr cooldown, who cares....)

5). Don't limit purple gear(I purchased the Collector's Edition for $150 and now it is less than $40). I have payed enough money. If I unsub, I should keep the gear.

 

I want new players to have fun with the game and pay their subs. I don't want players to say to themselves "Why the heck can't I do anything in this game without paying something? These people are cheap business men; thank god the game I purchased was less than $15"

 

If you go through with all of these restrictions, then this game is in even MORE trouble. I have a lot of friends who want to tryout this game, and one of them looked at the restrictions and said "Well, I suppose we will group up in Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and good thing Halo 4 is coming out a week before BO2 haha"

 

You are failing to consider that people have different options for what games they want to play. Nobody is going to shell out that much cash for your restrictions Bioware. ESPECIALLY when Black Ops 2 and Halo 4 come out, good luck with that. People are going to be saving their money for Map packs. Personally, if I unsubbed and had a choice to either:

A). Purchase items to equip gear, do warzones, and everything else... OR

B). Purchase FPS Freek ELITE from that kontrolfreek site, Call of duty Black Ops 2, Dishonored, Assassin's Creed 3, FF13-3, Halo 4(Which I won't buy but others will), Medal of Honor(Warfighter), far cry 3, a lock picking set, and many others games/items...

 

Well, I would pick option B. Only a mindless fool would play SW:TOR as a F2P member once they hit level 50. You are treating F2P members like they are dirt.( I have been playing in the beta, pre ordered the CE edition, and have been playing since early access/launch). I have never unsubbed before, however I have been considering doing so. I am disgusted at these restrictions and my friends won't be joining or staying very long with these barriers.

 

However, please keep the restriction on the general/trade/pvp chats.

Edited October 17, 2012 by SithEBM

[Tim-ONeil]

Um F2P shouldnt have the same features as P2P. These are all perfectly reasonable unless youre a leech who wants something for nothing.

 

Oh and by the way Boo f'n hoo on the no sprint at lvl 1. if you had been here on day 1 you would know we used to not get it till lvl 14.

 

And man what a difference it makes when you walked for the first 13 levels. Sprint felt like a level 3 speeder.

[Imhotep]

And man what a difference it makes when you walked for the first 13 levels. Sprint felt like a level 3 speeder.

 

Yes sir it sure did. Goal #1 get to lvl 14 as soon as possible.

[BadOrb]

Yes. Everyone able to post on the forums are subscribers, or at least haven't let their current subscription lapse yet.

 

While you say not to worry, I feel it's better to make a fuss about matters beforehand. We know enough details to make basic informed opinions on certain aspects of their F2P model, and so that's what we are commenting on. For myself, it really doesn't matter how much these weekly passes cost, or how much purple gear unlocks cost, I still think they are bad ideas.

 

The weekly passes are for the F2P people to be able to do more of what they like without paying a sub , ofcourse there's the argument that 3 WZ's / FP's is a bit low but the pass will give them the option to do more. I guess the locked purple gear is a bit weird but they are getting the game from 1-50 for free , so that restriction will help them get a little bit of money from a F2p'yer. Hopefully it will be a one off payment and be for all their characters.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Drebs]

So, it occurs to me; Bioware does not understand it's customer.

 

No one wants to feel like they're playing a crippled experience, and pay to normalize things. People want to feel as if they're getting a full-featured experience, and will be eager to pay for a perceived advantage.

 

In reality, there may be no difference between the two things. A 20% experience nerf becomes a buff when you add it back in, but it's all about how you position it.

 

Seeing as most players (e.g., former subscriber #s > current subscriber #s) did not feel as if they were getting their $15 worth, I would have thought the way forward would be to give the game as it was at launch for free, and to give subscribers perks such as legacy. FTPlayers could then have the option of purchasing those perks to enhance their experience.

 

Additionally, they need to launch this endeavor with things everyone can spend money on, because for every few FTP freeloaders, there's going to be someone who will spend a bundle. I've personally spent nearly $150 in Guild Wars 2 over the past couple months on boosts, dyes, salvage kits, etc. I'm happy to spend the money to enhance my experience as I'm a busy professional with limited gaming time that also loves MMOs.

 

If I had a way to pay for boosts and play through nothing but the class stories in SWTOR, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But Bioware won't take my money. On the contrary, they gate legacy XP perks behind credits, which I do not have the time to grind for. The result? I don't get to see the class stories and Bioware/EA make no additional money.

 

The people running SWTOR need to give up the idea that keeping players from content by gating it with a grind is good game design and let the better aspects of their game dictate the experience.

[HoloTweed]

Well, I'm saying. Their subscription model really hasn't done them many favors. In some respects, this model they are putting forth is just like mini-subscriptions. What we're going to see is players paying for a couple weeks of passes. And then they leave.

 

OR they subscribe.

 

Bottom line, you CAN'T give F2P players the same access as subscription players. WHY should a F2P player get FREE what I have to pay $15/month for? You totally devalue the subscription, and the idea is an f2P option should bring in ADDITIONAL revenue, not cost them paying subscribers.

 

If I pay $15/month I get the right to be entitled. You pay nothing, but get the full 1 - 50 level experience with no gimp on powers or weapons? You get NO entitlement to ask for more. You want more, you pay $$ in Cartel Coins or you subscribe.

[HoloTweed]

It's pretty obvious they want to make playing the game inconvenient for F2P players so those players will become frustrated and spend money or sub. That's a pretty bold assumption since most gamers will just find another, less restrictive, F2P game to play. If I become frustrated playing a game, I don't think to myself, "Well, I'll just give them some more of my money." I quit. I don't think such a restrictive model is going to help this game at all.

 

First, you have absolutely no grounds, support, or data to back up YOUR bold assumption that players will quit rather than pay to make their experience "better." In fact, many games have done BETTER after going F2P with limitations that F2P players must PAY to reduce or eliminate.

 

Second - give them MORE of your money? You're playing for FREE, you aren't giving them ANY of your money! This game isn't going F2P to give people a fun game to play for free! Bioware EXPECTS THEM TO PAY.

 

As a subscriber, *I* expect them to pay. If they want what I got, it costs $15/month or should cost MORE if they want to buy it piecemeal.

[Urael]

First, you have absolutely no grounds, support, or data to back up YOUR bold assumption that players will quit rather than pay to make their experience "better." In fact, many games have done BETTER after going F2P with limitations that F2P players must PAY to reduce or eliminate.

 

Second - give them MORE of your money? You're playing for FREE, you aren't giving them ANY of your money! This game isn't going F2P to give people a fun game to play for free! Bioware EXPECTS THEM TO PAY.

 

As a subscriber, *I* expect them to pay. If they want what I got, it costs $15/month or should cost MORE if they want to buy it piecemeal.

 

^This. I hope it's a WHOLE LOT more too. Let's not forget that $15 gets you the ability to post on the forums. The tone of the "conversations" should change quite a bit come the Freemium switch over. Schadenfreudelicious!

[HoloTweed]

Very subjective. I think 50 cents a day can be unreasonable when content isn't coming at a respectable rate. Need I remind all the other subscribers that we essentially went the whole summer without a single shred of new content? And so far, all we've gotten is a new operation, which only mildly appeals to me personally.

 

No, I really don't think SWTOR is deserving of $15 a month without question. However, I'd be perfectly happy to give them $20 right now to have unlimited access to warzones for life, $10 for each new warzone introduced, and then give them more on top of that for cosmetic gear, boosts to commendations earned, and other convenience items and services.

 

A flat $20 for Warzones for Life???

 

Yeah, that speaks of Entitlement right there. I'm paying $15/month for all the warzones I can eat, and you think paying less than 2 months subscription should let you have MORE THAN ME?

 

If THAT ever happens, there won't BE any more subscriptions because everyone will go F2P and in 2 months there'll be no more money supporting the game. Then your timeframe for new content goes from "extended" to "NEVER."

 

Entitled. Here, let me pay that for you.

[Tim-ONeil]

A flat $20 for Warzones for Life???

 

Yeah, that speaks of Entitlement right there. I'm paying $15/month for all the warzones I can eat, and you think paying less than 2 months subscription should let you have MORE THAN ME?

 

If THAT ever happens, there won't BE any more subscriptions because everyone will go F2P and in 2 months there'll be no more money supporting the game. Then your timeframe for new content goes from "extended" to "NEVER."

 

Entitled. Here, let me pay that for you.

 

Exactly the games that had to do an upfront cash grab (like Star Trek Online) with an extremely expensive (relatively speaking if they are upset about $15 per month) lifetime subscription to the game when the company knew that long term they were not going to be able to hold their audience.

 

I believe STO charged $300.00 for their lifetime model. At time it's on sale but that's the cost if you want to pick it up now. That game is also free to play now with a premium sub model.

 

You'd have to play a game for 20 months to get your investment back before the studio lost money on the deal. I doubt many of the people complaining in here have ever subscribed to the same game for 20 consecutive months.

 

Gaming companies aren't here to provide you games for free. They have costs involved with continuing development and have to make a profit on top of that overhead. If you are enjoying the game and want it to continue you need to understand that. I'm going to give them much more than $15 per month if they give me an incentive to do so. I'm sorry to say however that I will not be paying so you don't have to.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[LordArtemis]

Here were my suggestions from another thread.

 

It is like I said before...it really depends on how many cartel coins it costs. If the cost is low, it's not a problem to unlock it every week, but there should be an option to pay a larger coin amount to unlock it completely.

 

If I was designing F2P I would not necessarily change what they have, but I would add the ability to unlock parts of the game as follows (in real money equivalents)

 

Warzones, Operations and FPs: 30 dollars to unlock each permanently.

Purple gear, all high end gear vendors: 30 dollars to unlock all permanently.

Forums and general chat (F2P only) unlocked for 15 dollars. No option to chat with or have general forum access with paying players for F2P players.

Revive, sprint and fleet/QT: 30 dollars to unlock each permanently.

 

5.00 to unlock each legacy item, 15 dollars to unlock legacy use when it comes available.

10.00 to purchase speeders for your players (base level), adding 5.00 for each level of speeder.

 

5.00 for each orange armor set, no mods installed. I would add almost every armor set seen in the game that is not currently available.

5.00 for crafting schems for those armor sets.

 

Crew skill restrictions: 30 dollars to unlock permanently.

GTN and Who/GF: 30 dollars to unlock permanently.

 

 

And I would add the following....

 

500k restriction for F2P on each toon, unlocked with 15 bucks to 2 million, 30 bucks to unlimited.

No inventory expansion or extra cargo bays, 5.00 every inventory row (you get in game consumable item to use to unlock), 20.00 for every cargo bay. Level restrictions apply.

 

5 dollars for 24 hour speeder rental (in game time, total time of use)

5 dollars for free mod extraction (one use, one piece of armor)

5 dollars for color change to chest

5 dollars for QT/Fleet cooldown reset (stackable, consumed on use)

5 dollars for field repair consumable

5 dollars for instant full health revive, one use

5 dollars each for one use damage resistance buff, xp buff, coin and loot buff (24 hours)

1 dollar for random green box, 5 dollars for random blue box, 10 dollars for random purple box.

 

15 dollars to unlock races for character creation permanently for one toon, 30 dollars for all toons.

10 dollars to redesign any character once.

10 dollars to convert any piece of armor to empty orange armor piece.

 

15 dollars for name change, 30 dollars for server transfer.

 

Just some examples. Maybe more to follow.

 

I would add there is a great article on the do's and don'ts for F2P

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134920/the_design_of_freetoplay_games_.php?print=1