Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[HuaRya]

It's all well and good - if they were entering Ranked. Entry-level PvP should not be a wall to climb over. PvP is not an "elite club" where only the most determined can participate. Competitive PvP - yes. Regular PvP - no. It's the majority of the PvP pool. No new blood=blood dries up and you get what we got sometime into TBC on my battle group in WoW. We just fought the same guys over and over in the Arena because PvP became so elitist in seasons 2 and 3.

 

PvP is not a jock fraternity, a street gang, or a prison block. You shouldn't suffer through "initiation" to get the "right to haze".

 

Also, your posts across this thread can barely contain your ego. Get over yourself.

 

This hazing from the original pvp guilds is big time on jedi covenant pub side. You see the the butt kissers doing the emoticons to them like bowing or hugging etc. in hopes of riding on their premade.

[BuzzingFridge]

If people can't learn to accept defeat in a video game, they shouldn't be playing.

[MotorCityMan]

If people can't learn to accept defeat in a video game, they shouldn't be playing.

 

I agree. All these premade players need to quit. They make a million excuses why they won't play ranked and don't want to face each other in a seperate queue because they can't accept defeat. The only thing they can do is easymode farm pugs. If they can't exploit the system to win all the time, they won't play. It's sad.

Edited June 5, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Alkazarr]

It's all well and good - if they were entering Ranked. Entry-level PvP should not be a wall to climb over. PvP is not an "elite club" where only the most determined can participate. Competitive PvP - yes. Regular PvP - no. It's the majority of the PvP pool. No new blood=blood dries up and you get what we got sometime into TBC on my battle group in WoW. We just fought the same guys over and over in the Arena because PvP became so elitist in seasons 2 and 3.

 

PvP is not a jock fraternity, a street gang, or a prison block. You shouldn't suffer through "initiation" to get the "right to haze".

 

Also, your posts across this thread can barely contain your ego. Get over yourself.

 

Thats a bit harsh. The guy had a very good point.

 

No one starts pvp knowing what to do. The learning curve is immense, really.

Gotta learn your class, gotta learn the strats of each warzone, gotta learn how to communicate properly, gotta learn how to be aware of your environment, enemies and team mates movements, gotta learn how to position yourself, gotta kearn how to counter other classes, gotta learn how resolve works and when to use your cc breaker or which enemy cast needa to be interrupted, gotta learn working as a team by docusing on same targets and objectives, etc...

 

Im not even getting into movement, targetting or keybinding or BiS optimization . And Im sure theres a lot of other stuff I havent mentionned or dont know myself yet.

 

What im trying to say is, pvp is competitive and casuals will always struggle against an individual/ team who goes the extra mile to get better.

But thats always going to happen when you pit the guy who wants to have fun vs the guy who wants to win.

 

Two different mentalities for two different types of players. Not saying either is wrong or that casuals cant hope to win, but for dome people pvp is taken as seriously as raiding so they constantly serk how to increase their performance. Premade or no premade.

 

When I do pve for example and join an ops storymode (aka pve equivalent of regular warzone) theres always a few pve "pros" on the team who generally carry the rest of the group and will sigh and moan when we maje mistakes and get us wiped. They ll rage quit and scream abuse sometimes too.

 

And I dont mnd, these guys put in the work and the research to out perform other players in their preferred aspect of the game (pve). And I know I dont stand a chance to join them on guild runs for hm or nim til I get much, much better.

 

Should I start raging and raving about how these "elite" pvers are blocking me from enjoying the game because they eont pick me foe raids or leave the group because we suck ?

 

Why is it okay to do the same for pvp ? Just because theres no ops leader to kick you or no gear chevk to block you from joining the game means that its alright to join in matches undergeared or playing like a headless chicken AND then complain that there sre people in the opposing team who did get ready and know how to play ?

 

If you put in zero effort and fail at pvp, its your problem. Dont see ehy other players dhould be prevented from playing together hust under the pretext they know what they sre doing and you dont.

 

God i cant imagine the drama if that game was ffa...

[Kovaos]

I agree. All these premade players need to quit. They make a million excuses why they won't play ranked and don't want to face each other in a seperate queue because they can't accept defeat. The only thing they can do is easymode farm pugs. If they can't exploit the system to win all the time, they won't play. It's sad.

 

Oh I see what you did there

[cycao]

I agree. All these premade players need to quit. They make a million excuses why they won't play ranked and don't want to face each other in a seperate queue because they can't accept defeat. The only thing they can do is easymode farm pugs. If they can't exploit the system to win all the time, they won't play. It's sad.

 

Nothing would make me happier if they did split the queues. All they need is cross server and it could work but I don't see them adding cross servers for anything but ranked to ensure that they would pop more often instead of certain times durning the nights.

 

Also I played 6 games last night before switing to my lowbie and faced off against at least one premade every game.

[underjollyroger]

Matches with premade teams are usually so very one-sided that lately I have been quitting all WZs where I get teamed up with a premade or I start playing just for fun, like testing in how many seconds i die if i dont use def skills and dont fight back, exploring the area and so on. Otherwise its absolutely boring and wasted time.

[L-RANDLE]

It's all well and good - if they were entering Ranked. Entry-level PvP should not be a wall to climb over. PvP is not an "elite club" where only the most determined can participate. Competitive PvP - yes. Regular PvP - no. It's the majority of the PvP pool. No new blood=blood dries up and you get what we got sometime into TBC on my battle group in WoW. We just fought the same guys over and over in the Arena because PvP became so elitist in seasons 2 and 3.

 

PvP is not a jock fraternity, a street gang, or a prison block. You shouldn't suffer through "initiation" to get the "right to haze".

 

Also, your posts across this thread can barely contain your ego. Get over yourself.

The only people that are hazed are the people that allow themselves to be hazed.. you can either fiht back or crawl under a rock and hide...

 

The only "ego" I show here is the Ballz to take an asswhippin' and understanding that there is nothing unfair in this game because the devs gives everyone the same tools... Whether you decide to use or obtain them is solely up to you. If you don't use them, then don't come here and cry about it...

 

Yes if you have no desire to be "good" at this game, I don't feel sorry for you...

Edited June 5, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Kovaos]

The only people that are hasselbeck are the people that allow themselves to be hazed.. you can either fiht back or crawl under a rock and hide...

 

The only "ego" I show here is the Ballz to take an asswhippin' and understanding that there is nothing unfair in this game because the devs gives everyone the same tools... Whether you decide to use or obtain them is solely up to you. If you don't use them, then don't come here and cry about it...

 

Yes if you have no desire to be "good" at this game, I don't feel sorry for you...

 

Some guys are supporting the solo queue for the wrong reason. It's not a game breaking issue for guys like me at all. On the other hand if/when I don't join a group to queue with it would be nice to have an option to solo queue or at least put some type of match making system that will pair premades with other premades.

 

In the end it's not about losing with your head up. It's about losing a competitive game. A PuG vs Premade is rarely competitive unless it's a guild just working on team work and gear etc. It's usually a lop sided rofl stomping. If a premade queues the match is more likely (notice it's not definitive) to be competitive if they are matched against another premade.

 

Telling people to "suck it up" is not very customer friendly when there aren't other options available other than joining your own premades. Premades currently have an option to queue for ranked, but choose not to, and reasonably because it's more fun to roflstomp pugs.

[Kovaos]

Matches with premade teams are usually so very one-sided that lately I have been quitting all WZs where I get teamed up with a premade or I start playing just for fun, like testing in how many seconds i die if i dont use def skills and dont fight back, exploring the area and so on. Otherwise its absolutely boring and wasted time.

 

I refuse to quit, but I do something similar as far having fun goes.

 

Sometimes I have noticed when we think it's a premade and our team starts quitting sometimes they get replaced by better players and we can make it a better game. I will do my best to send the quitters a quick whisper thanking them for leaving.

[Helig]

The only people that are hazed are the people that allow themselves to be hazed.. you can either fiht back or crawl under a rock and hide...

 

The only "ego" I show here is the Ballz to take an asswhippin' and understanding that there is nothing unfair in this game because the devs gives everyone the same tools... Whether you decide to use or obtain them is solely up to you. If you don't use them, then don't come here and cry about it...

 

Yes if you have no desire to be "good" at this game, I don't feel sorry for you...

I'm satisfied with how good I am, and so is my guild. Not that I don't have anywhere to grow.

 

Pitting new players against advanced players doesn't let them learn.

 

I get where you're coming from, I really do - and that's why I don't agree with you. The elitist mentality that players like you adopt is what poisons the PvP community. This kind of mentality is never constructive and its main focus is not making PvP environment enjoyable, but bashing those who are worse-off than you, imposing your views on others with no actual weight behind your arguments - only the weight of your ego. You've got nothing behind your arguments aside the "Internet Tough Guy" act.

 

Yes, you've done well to learn from your mistakes, optimize your character and get into a good, organized guild. So have I, and so have many others. Stop acting like it's such a big deal. You've got no "balls". You just had the determination to push through discouragement. Better people than you do this every day in real life. This is a game. If it's the only thing that you can validate yourself in, "I don't feel sorry for you".

Edited June 5, 2013 by Helig

[L-RANDLE]

Some guys are supporting the solo queue for the wrong reason. It's not a game breaking issue for guys like me at all. On the other hand if/when I don't join a group to queue with it would be nice to have an option to solo queue or at least put some type of match making system that will pair premades with other premades.

 

In the end it's not about losing with your head up. It's about losing a competitive game. A PuG vs Premade is rarely competitive unless it's a guild just working on team work and gear etc. It's usually a lop sided rofl stomping. If a premade queues the match is more likely (notice it's not definitive) to be competitive if they are matched against another premade.

 

Telling people to "suck it up" is not very customer friendly when there aren't other options available other than joining your own premades. Premades currently have an option to queue for ranked, but choose not to, and reasonably because it's more fun to roflstomp pugs.

But most people here are blaming the premade for not having a competitive match! Sorry, its always a PuG issue..

Most due to L2P and bad class balance... I said it before in this thread most advocates here want token competition.

 

It's a two way street and most here don't accept that they might suck... Whatever definition of what suck means as it relates to this game. RL, horrible AC, no desire to actually succeed... These are what you subject yourselves to when you PuG.

 

Theyre also some here trumpeting the whole rng of PuG, but wants to eliminate premades?

Now how can you explain the want for rng while trying you best to eliminate two potential outcomes?

 

We call that hypocrisy in my hood....

[L-RANDLE]

I'm satisfied with how good I am, and so is my guild. Not that I don't have anywhere to grow.

 

Pitting new players against advanced players doesn't let them learn.

 

I get where you're coming from, I really do - and that's why I don't agree with you. The elitist mentality that players like you adopt is what poisons the PvP community. This kind of mentality is never constructive and its main focus is not making PvP environment enjoyable, but bashing those who are worse-off than you, imposing your views on others with no actual weight behind your arguments - only the weight of your ego.

 

Yes, you've done well to learn from your mistakes, optimize your character and get into a good, organized guild. So have I, and so have many others. Stop acting like it's such a big deal. You've got no "balls". You just had the determination to push through discouragement. Better people than you do this every day in real life. This is a game. If it's the only thing that you can validate yourself in, "I don't feel sorry for you".

 

Do you know that elitism requires exclusivity. What exactly is exclusive in this game? So this is why you stance is invalid from the start, but ill humor you.... My stance is that you control your own destiny..... You decide on how much you want to dedicate yourself to this game, and you are the ultime reason why you my or may not be enjoying this game... It's up to you... Play hard or go home.

[Helig]

Do you know that elitism requires exclusivity. What exactly is exclusive in this game? So this is why you stance is invalid from the start, but ill humor you.... My stance is that you control your own destiny..... You decide on how much you want to dedicate yourself to this game, and you are the ultime reason why you my or may not be enjoying this game... It's up to you... Play hard or go home.

I "control my destiny" (as much as it's applicable to a video game) by playing ranked matches. Dishing it hard and getting it hard.

 

You do not "control your destiny". You're just blowing hot air. It's fancy talk for "I like hazing others and not being hazed because I'm at the top of the foodchain of casuals".

[L-RANDLE]

I "control my destiny" (as much as it's applicable to a video game) by playing ranked matches. Dishing it hard and getting it hard.

 

You do not "control your destiny". You're just blowing hot air. It's fancy talk for "I like hazing others and not being hazed because I'm at the top of the foodchain of casuals".

 

I must have tipped you off.... Please again explain what is exclusive in this game besides ones own personal dedication? It's not like the skill ceiling is high... How much better could that premade be?

 

Things that make you go hummmm?

 

I play ranked too friend and guess what? That doesn't matter anyway. Why? Because judging any skill level from ranked when the player pool is virtually extintion levels is worthless. On top of that I PuG 90% of the time outside of ranked.... So again you points are invalid, and filled with butthurt...

 

It's a great idea to make my experience poor to have a token competition bracket at endgame.... Brilliant..

[Helig]

I must have tipped you off.... Please again explain what is exclusive in this game besides ones own personal dedication? It's not like the skill ceiling is high... How much better could that premade be?

 

Things that make you go hummmm?

 

I play ranked too friend and guess what? That doesn't matter anyway. Why? Because judging any skill level from ranked when the player pool is virtually extintion levels is worthless. On top of that I PuG 90% of the time outside of ranked.... So again you points are invalid, and filled with butthurt...

 

It's a great idea to make my experience poor to have a token competition bracket at endgame.... Brilliant..

Oh, I definitely agree on exclusivity. I've always pushed for proper rankings, actual ladders, actual recognition for high ratings. Right now we get frakking awful mounts and slightly differently patterned gear shells. Yay.

 

Your "dedication" argument holds no water. SWToR isn't really the game where competitive PvP shines. I played WoW for a long time till it deteriorated, and, no matter how awful Arena mechanics were, they're still better than anything ToR has, I'm sad to admit. ToR is not the game for competitive PvP. It is a largely casual-focused game, and that is why there needs to be matchmaking, or separate queueing for a smoother learning curve.

 

You ask "how much better a premade could be". Much better. Held Alderaan or Novare mid with 2-3 people against the bigger half of the enemy team with just Guardian tank (me) and Scoundrel healer, while our buddies capped/reinforced rest, often resulting in dry, or almost-dry scores. Not even mentioning Huttball jump/pull/pass chains or obliterating enemy teams at Voidstar doors, planting bombs faster than their respawn door disengages.

 

Don't hide behind the "butthurt" arguments. You just like being atop of casuals and don't want your abuse toys to be taken away from you.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Helig

[HobbesTay]

I must admit I don't understand what the issue is here?

 

I believe that all a lot of us are asking for is the OPTION to be able to play in a Solo only queue, a toggle would be the most obvious way to achieve this.

 

If then the majority of people choose not to use the toogle then I will have to wait for a long time for a solo pug only match to pop, which I am prepared to do.

 

If on the other hand many people feel the way I do and would rather play in a pure pug match then we won't have to wait long for a match while the people who like to premade will have to wait for others willing to match against them.

 

either way the masses will have spoken and if it gets to a point where the wait time is to great then I would expect people to start toggling the button so that they don't care who they play against.

 

I do however think that a lot of the damage has already been done and both pug and premades (who don't forget get there members from the pug comunity) will suffer going forward due to "lost" potential pvpers.

[Helig]

I must admit I don't understand what the issue is here?

 

I believe that all a lot of us are asking for is the OPTION to be able to play in a Solo only queue, a toggle would be the most obvious way to achieve this.

 

If then the majority of people choose not to use the toogle then I will have to wait for a long time for a solo pug only match to pop, which I am prepared to do.

 

If on the other hand many people feel the way I do and would rather play in a pure pug match then we won't have to wait long for a match while the people who like to premade will have to wait for others willing to match against them.

 

either way the masses will have spoken and if it gets to a point where the wait time is to great then I would expect people to start toggling the button so that they don't care who they play against.

 

I do however think that a lot of the damage has already been done and both pug and premades (who don't forget get there members from the pug comunity) will suffer going forward due to "lost" potential pvpers.

The issue is that Internet Tough Guys want newbies to suffer the hazing initiation, just like they have in their time. Smoother, new player-friendly entry curve? That's for sissies. Play hard or go home. Hormonal maximalism, etc, etc.

 

Except not turning away new people from PvP is just important as keeping new dedicated players. Admittedly, BW has its head up its collective backside on both accounts. Awful Ranked warzone system, laughable recognition for ratings on one hand and hazing of newbies that takes place more often than it should on the other. Separate the wolves from the sheep.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Helig

[L-RANDLE]

Oh, I definitely agree on exclusivity. I've always pushed for proper rankings, actual ladders, actual recognition for high ratings. Right now we get frakking awful mounts and slightly differently patterned gear shells. Yay.

 

Your "dedication" argument holds no water. SWToR isn't really the game where competitive PvP shines. I played WoW for a long time till it deteriorated, and, no matter how awful Arena mechanics were, they're still better than anything ToR has, I'm sad to admit. ToR is not the game for competitive PvP. It is a largely casual-focused game, and that is why there needs to be matchmaking, or separate queueing for a smoother learning curve.

 

You ask "how much better a premade could be". Much better. Held Alderaan or Novare mid with 2-3 people against the bigger half of the enemy team with just Guardian tank (me) and Scoundrel healer, while our buddies capped/reinforced rest, often resulting in dry, or almost-dry scores. Not even mentioning Huttball jump/pull/pass chains or obliterating enemy teams at Voidstar doors, planting bombs faster than their respawn door disengages.

 

Don't hide behind the "butthurt" arguments. You just like being atop of casuals and don't want your abuse toys to be taken away from you.

Abuse toys? Lol.. listen to yourself. First you try to label me as elitest, now label me as a casual.

 

Casual elitest don't exactly make sense.

Still you don't have a clue..... All that stuff you mentioned is possible to do in a PuG. The reason it doesn't happen is strictly class balance and L2P.

 

But alas, its regs... I could tell the people advocating for a split the same thing... If you want more balance in you PVP life play ranked.... But they will probably end up back in regs so they can "dominate"....

[Technohic]

Casual elitist? If I wasn't so lazy I would make a meme. I don't always play SWTOR, but when I do: I'm better than you.

[Jadescythe]

Casual elitist? If I wasn't so lazy I would make a meme. I don't always play SWTOR, but when I do: I'm better than you.

 

Everyone is lazy sometimes

[Helig]

Abuse toys? Lol.. listen to yourself. First you try to label me as elitest, now label me as a casual.

 

Casual elitest don't exactly make sense.

Still you don't have a clue..... All that stuff you mentioned is possible to do in a PuG. The reason it doesn't happen is strictly class balance and L2P.

 

But alas, its regs... I could tell the people advocating for a split the same thing... If you want more balance in you PVP life play ranked.... But they will probably end up back in regs so they can "dominate"....

Didn't label you "casual" (but if you would see it as an insult, that's quite the other matter). Regardless, it doesn't take a pro to be elitist.

 

Class balance is part of the issue. I can dictate which people I have in my group. Random pugs are random.

 

I agree. Game systems are a part of the problem. Competitive players have nowhere else to go. Ranked WZ system is awful.

 

If premades don't make as much of a difference as you claim - then bads will still be steamrolled, even if they have their precious solo-only queue. You'll still get to be The King Of Bads (sorry, Cashology).

 

I, on the other hand, will get the opportunity to play against more premade groups, even if it's a "PuG premade" raid that consists of 2 separate premades, because premade vs premade is (almost) always more interesting and fun.

[Technohic]

Everyone is lazy sometimes

 

HAHA and there it is.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Technohic

[L-RANDLE]

Casual elitist? If I wasn't so lazy I would make a meme. I don't always play SWTOR, but when I do: I'm better than you.

 

<3 just like you guys to hook it up....

I think I just found a new name for my next alt....

 

/lol

Edited June 5, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[L-RANDLE]

Oh boy... Someone just hit the "s" button on me....

 

 

ROFL....