Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Jadescythe]

That was in response to the people who claim there's some kind of behind the scenes matchmaking. Yes sometimes it sure feels like there's matchmaking behind the scenes but it's just pure luck.

 

The sad thing is that matchmaking is trivial to implement. You can look it up on Wikipedia and know 95% of what you need. The other 5% you can go to LoL or any game with a good matchmaking system's website and read about it. Every game with a good matchmaking system has a strong incentive to let you know their system is good, which involves explaining exactly what it does since 'trust us, the system is good' isn't exactly a convincing argument.

 

I agree. 5 seconds to program a rating based on wins/losses and have rating gain based on the opponents you faced. Boost ratings of people grouped together slightly if you feel it's a significant advantage in this game (I don't, this isn't like duo queuing in LoL) and you're all set. Then you can have the queue try and exact match based on overall ratings and move progressively outward on acceptable rankings after x amount of time (adjusting win/loss on rating accordingly) to keep queues popping at all times of the day.

[Kovaos]

Hello matchmaking, which requires absolutely no separation of queues whatsoever. In fact, it is an infinitely better solution in every way for every person.

 

Side note: Peyton Manning doesn't play in the CFL because he is getting paid 100 million dollars to play for the Broncos. Also, the CFL is a PROFESSIONAL sports league, not for casuals.

 

I would be all for matchmaking.

 

Peyton Manning has an incentive for playing professionally with those huge checks coming in. Thanks for verifying my comparison I used the CFL because those players are trying to make it to the NFL. Similar to how Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.

 

IMO if a premade of 4 queues together they should be put in a match against at least 1 other premade on the opposing team. Of course I guess this is a type of match making that we are talking about.

[Sharee]

I also noticed you were unable to provide your criteria for how you choose to stay/leave a match. I assume I was correct that you lose when you're getting stomped and stay when you're not since you have no idea whether a team has a premade or not.

 

Or maybe i simply know the players by name. Especially considering i play on both factions. And since the game was released.

 

(On a side note, i do not quit matches. I am just pointing out i COULD do so to avoid premades, and based on the threads complaining about quitters, many people do just that. Giving them(and me) a way to avoid premades without having to quit a match would make for a healthier game environment)

[Jadescythe]

...and please drop the petty insults. As pointed out earlier in the thread, some of us simply prefer the chaotic nature of PUG vs PUG combat.

 

Do you leave games when you can easily tell you will win them in the first 2 minutes? If the game isn't "chaotic" like you expect a PUG on PUG game to be, do you quit regardless of premade presence? Because I can guarantee, premades or not, your games are not always going to be back and forth, node swapping extravaganzas. If that's the only way you find PvP fun, you must quit a LOT of warzones.

[Sharee]

Do you leave games when you can easily tell you will win them in the first 2 minutes? If the game isn't "chaotic" like you expect a PUG on PUG game to be, do you quit regardless of premade presence? Because I can guarantee, premades or not, your games are not always going to be back and forth, node swapping extravaganzas. If that's the only way you find PvP fun, you must quit a LOT of warzones.

 

As i said above, i do not quit matches. I saw plenty of lost game scorecards where i am at the top, then the whole enemy team, then the rest of my team.

 

EDIT and why the heck are you scrutinizing my behavior in matches. This is a thread about premades ruining nonranked warzones, not about my personal warzone habits!

Edited May 30, 2013 by Sharee

[Jadescythe]

I would be all for matchmaking.

 

Peyton Manning has an incentive for playing professionally with those huge checks coming in. Thanks for verifying my comparison I used the CFL because those players are trying to make it to the NFL. Similar to how Kurt Warner came from the Arena league.

 

IMO if a premade of 4 queues together they should be put in a match against at least 1 other premade on the opposing team. Of course I guess this is a type of match making that we are talking about.

 

I will always maintain that groups that make up half the team or less do not have a significant advantage in warzones. As long as skill is equal on both sides, premades will not matter. The issue with queues at this point is that you will most likely be matched with players that have a significant difference in skill level from you (better or worse) and the warzone will most likely be one sided.

 

Strictly from a number standpoint, if I am 3rd in damage out of the whole warzone and the next closes teammate is 10th, there is a skill disparity that can't be overcome by one player overall (assuming I had allies focused on damage and not a bunch of tanks and healers). But I obviously was still able to successfully damage the opponent without having a premade with me, proving that a PUG with some skill can face a premade without a problem. I just got placed with allies that were not on the same skill level as the rest of the warzone.

 

Now this is an exaggerated example, but when you have 2-3 players who are significantly below the opposing team, it doesn't matter if the opposition is grouped or not. You are going to lose until BW finds a way to put you with equally skilled players or at least balances out the skill levels of the players on each team.

 

Also, I'm sure the players in the CFL would not agree with your comparisons, but the NFL is more popular and pays more money. From that perspective, yes, they want to move to the NFL. But it isn't a very good comparison to this game. Every match here is a pick-up game in your backyard and sometimes you have to play against the best kid on the block.

[Pistols]

As i said above, i do not quit matches. I saw plenty of lost game scorecards where i am at the top, then the whole enemy team, then the rest of my team.

 

EDIT and why the heck are you scrutinizing my behavior in matches. This is a thread about premades runing nonranked warzones, not about my personal warzone habits!

 

Sharee what server do you play on?

 

Also, if I make a toon there, will you marry me in-game?

 

Thanks.

[cycao]

Sharee what server do you play on?

 

Also, if I make a toon there, will you marry me in-game?

 

Thanks.

 

Thanks, I thought we had something special...I am glad my sub is ending in 20 days.

[Pistols]

Thanks, I thought we had something special...I am glad my sub is ending in 20 days.

 

When I saw that video of you with Alba, Cilas and Quinlynn, it was just over man!

[cycao]

When I saw that video of you with Alba, Cilas and Quinlynn, it was just over man!

 

I told them to edit me out.

[Kovaos]

I will always maintain that groups that make up half the team or less do not have a significant advantage in warzones. As long as skill is equal on both sides, premades will not matter. The issue with queues at this point is that you will most likely be matched with players that have a significant difference in skill level from you (better or worse) and the warzone will most likely be one sided.

 

Strictly from a number standpoint, if I am 3rd in damage out of the whole warzone and the next closes teammate is 10th, there is a skill disparity that can't be overcome by one player overall (assuming I had allies focused on damage and not a bunch of tanks and healers). But I obviously was still able to successfully damage the opponent without having a premade with me, proving that a PUG with some skill can face a premade without a problem. I just got placed with allies that were not on the same skill level as the rest of the warzone.

 

Now this is an exaggerated example, but when you have 2-3 players who are significantly below the opposing team, it doesn't matter if the opposition is grouped or not. You are going to lose until BW finds a way to put you with equally skilled players or at least balances out the skill levels of the players on each team.

 

Also, I'm sure the players in the CFL would not agree with your comparisons, but the NFL is more popular and pays more money. From that perspective, yes, they want to move to the NFL. But it isn't a very good comparison to this game. Every match here is a pick-up game in your backyard and sometimes you have to play against the best kid on the block.

 

I'm not sure if we are disagreeing on agreeing or just using symantecs (except the CFL part, I would bet every single player in the CFL would kill for a chance to play with the best and get paid like the best).

 

From what I've seen almost all premades consist of better geared players with more experience. Give them a mic and there's more of an advantage. I do believe pugs have a chance though and I'm sure I've been part of several matches where we have beat a premade. I've also probably been part of a premade that has lost to some noobs, I mean pugs.

 

However, I think I'm on to something in that when a group of 4 queues they should be matched with another group of 4. One major problem with a matchmaking system that might compare gear is the premade or group of players could just swap their gear and put it back on when they've joined the match. I'm not sure how a match making system that compares valor would work, maybe it would be better.

[Jadescythe]

As i said above, i do not quit matches. I saw plenty of lost game scorecards where i am at the top, then the whole enemy team, then the rest of my team.

 

EDIT and why the heck are you scrutinizing my behavior in matches. This is a thread about premades runing nonranked warzones, not about my personal warzone habits!

 

You specifically brought up leaving warzones to avoid premades, so I addressed it.

 

Ultimately we are in agreement that lopsided battles aren't fun. The fact of the matter is, removing premades from the queue only makes the queue longer, not better. You can still be in a PUG only queue and be the only person in the top 8 on your team. I don't know what your skill level is, it could be extremely high or you could be the worst of the worst. Either way, you should be playing with the same caliber of player as you, regardless of grouping.

 

The only thing that premading gives as an advantage right now is guaranteeing that you have 4 competent players on your team at least. Most of the time it's not even used for that, but to have fun with friends in a stress free environment. The real problem is unfair warzones and you will still have them in a solo only and group queue, although the lopsided games will probably be more prevalent in the group queue. Leave everyone together to keep queue times down and find get a hidden rating to match your players. It's a simple, easy solution.

[Comfterbilly]

"Matchmaking" is the new ranked: just another false argument. Ranked queue is all cobwebs and spiders because they don't want to play with each other either. If the risks are too great and the rewards are too small for queuing ranked and losing ---- that is their issue with the developers and that is their issue with their skill level. really they are complaining about the Queue BECAUSE premades are allowed to choose pugrolling over group queue. Edited May 30, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Jadescythe]

I'm not sure if we are disagreeing on agreeing or just using symantecs (except the CFL part, I would bet every single player in the CFL would kill for a chance to play with the best and get paid like the best).

 

From what I've seen almost all premades consist of better geared players with more experience. Give them a mic and there's more of an advantage. I do believe pugs have a chance though and I'm sure I've been part of several matches where we have beat a premade. I've also probably been part of a premade that has lost to some noobs, I mean pugs.

 

However, I think I'm on to something in that when a group of 4 queues they should be matched with another group of 4. One major problem with a matchmaking system that might compare gear is the premade or group of players could just swap their gear and put it back on when they've joined the match. I'm not sure how a match making system that compares valor would work, maybe it would be better.

 

We probably agree overall that skill needs to be more equal on both sides. The issue is you can't say that a group has an advantage just for being a group because many times they aren't doing anything special, just want to play together. So you then have really competitive groups practicing taking on 4 friends who just hit 55 on alts.

 

Ratings should not involve valor. I don't care how many matches you've played, it doesn't matter to me. Rating shouldn't involve gear, because again, it's only a measure of how long you've played. Wins/losses is the way to go. You may lose or win some games because of your team, but in the long run your rating will be in the right spot.

[Jadescythe]

"Matchmaking" is the new ranked: just another false argument. Ranked queue is all cobwebs and spiders because they don't want to play with each other either. If the risks are too high and the rewards are too great free queuing ranked and losing ---- that is their issue with the developers and that is their issue with their skill level. really they are complaining about the Queue BECAUSE premades are allowed to choose pugrolling over group queue.

 

...wut?

 

Hidden matchmaking wouldn't give you an option, it would just put you against equally skilled players...?

[Sharee]

You specifically brought up leaving warzones to avoid premades, so I addressed it.

 

I only did it to counter your claim that by queueing for a warzone i somehow forfeit the right to have a fun match.(since quitting and requeueing fixes that)

 

Ultimately we are in agreement that lopsided battles aren't fun. The fact of the matter is, removing premades from the queue only makes the queue longer, not better.

 

That's a misunderstanding. I do not want to remove premades from the queue. I want to remove *myself* from being considered for a warzone that contains a premade. The difference is, other solo players that do not mind facing a premade still can. There is no separate queue.

[Kovaos]

We probably agree overall that skill needs to be more equal on both sides. The issue is you can't say that a group has an advantage just for being a group because many times they aren't doing anything special, just want to play together. So you then have really competitive groups practicing taking on 4 friends who just hit 55 on alts.

 

You're right, and I don't believe just cause there's a premade they will win. I do believe most of the premades I see seem to be better geared and more skilled.

[Comfterbilly]

...wut?

 

Hidden matchmaking wouldn't give you an option, it would just put you against equally skilled players...?

 

Premaedes are comforting themselves with the false notion that the need for separate queues has anything to do with skill (or matchmaking). I've lost huttball matches 0-6 and still gotten top medans and still call it a great war zone experience because of the quality of the game play. What we get rid of when we get rid of premades in our queue, are the groups whose strategy is to shut down game play. No more coordinated chain stunning, cross-healing, immorto-predation, gimmick spamming.

 

Get rid of the gimmick-spam, none of the solo players are going to complain about "skill levels".

[Jadescythe]

Premaedes are comforting themselves with the false notion that the need for separate queues has anything to do with skill (or matchmaking). I've lost huttball matches 0-6 and still gotten top medans and still call it a great war zone experience because of the quality of the game play. What we get rid of when we get rid of premades in our queue, are the groups whose strategy is to shut down game play. No more coordinated chain stunning, cross-healing, immorto-predation, gimmick spamming.

 

Get rid of the gimmick-spam, none of the solo players are going to complain about "skill levels".

 

I apologize that many PUGs spam CC on CD and so there is no strategy. Believe me, if that's what you like to see, you will lose plenty of games to play with the same unskilled players doing the same terrible things in warzones. Just because I queue solo doesn't mean I don't know how to pop predation when the previous predation wears off. It doesn't mean I don't know how to stun a healer when we get someone else low on health to prevent him from getting healed back up. These are things better players do without being told to or needing a premade.

[DarthRaika]

The problem with premades is that they make up 50% of a team in a game where GUARDING / TAUNTING + HEALING is king. Four mediocre players in good gear and with the right composition should stomp most pugs. Hell, four terrible players with good gear and good team composition should win many mathces against pugs.

 

Sure these horrible premades get stomped by decent premades but that is why these premades don't run in ranked.

 

It is hard to believe that so many of you are still focused on the voice chat portion. It is an advantage no doubt but that is no where near the major advantage in this game.

[TonyDragonflame]

It is hard to believe that so many of you are still focused on the voice chat portion. It is an advantage no doubt but that is no where near the major advantage in this game.

 

It is major advantage for alarm on defence, focus fire in fight and for chain cc synchronize for ninja cap on CW and AH.

[cycao]

It is major advantage for alarm on defence, focus fire in fight and for chain cc synchronize for ninja cap on CW and AH.

 

If crappy pugs (like the really crappy ones) would take a look at ops chat every now and then they would see more call outs and if they do notice said call out, not over commit and follow the other players heading to the node it would be great. And focus fire is not to hard of a concept to grasp, see a good healer or dps with another player beating on him, join in and if you see someone down on health, swith targets to finish him off.

 

 

Is using voice awesome? Yes but not for the reasons you think of. 90% is just bull____ing with 10% or less going into the actual game.

[dufox]

I will always maintain that groups that make up half the team or less do not have a significant advantage in warzones. As long as skill is equal on both sides, premades will not matter. The issue with queues at this point is that you will most likely be matched with players that have a significant difference in skill level from you (better or worse) and the warzone will most likely be one sided.

 

Strictly from a number standpoint, if I am 3rd in damage out of the whole warzone and the next closes teammate is 10th, there is a skill disparity that can't be overcome by one player overall (assuming I had allies focused on damage and not a bunch of tanks and healers). But I obviously was still able to successfully damage the opponent without having a premade with me, proving that a PUG with some skill can face a premade without a problem. I just got placed with allies that were not on the same skill level as the rest of the warzone.

 

Now this is an exaggerated example, but when you have 2-3 players who are significantly below the opposing team, it doesn't matter if the opposition is grouped or not. You are going to lose until BW finds a way to put you with equally skilled players or at least balances out the skill levels of the players on each team.

 

Also, I'm sure the players in the CFL would not agree with your comparisons, but the NFL is more popular and pays more money. From that perspective, yes, they want to move to the NFL. But it isn't a very good comparison to this game. Every match here is a pick-up game in your backyard and sometimes you have to play against the best kid on the block.

 

yay for logic

after a few games against a premade that flat out wrecks you its pretty easy to find the pattern and figure out why its happening.

1. you people who say **** this then go "help defend the other objective" i personally *********** hate you. your literally worse than noob troll rage quitters and you alone basically guarantee your teams loss. (even if the defender leaves, the guy who gave up is almost always a horrible defender who will lose the node and usually calls the inc while he is respawning)

 

2. there will almost always be people (after 2.0) saying end game pvp sucks without endgame pvp gear.

3. there will almost always be people who say premades ruin pvp.

 

i have literally joined a warzone with less than 2 minutes left and have gotten highest dps of the team several times. (not bragging, im insulting lol)

its mind boggling how people run in, die and then give up after once or twice. AND THEN still not understand that the premade has nothing to do with the actual problem. (at the very least everyone one the team, myself included has failed if no one attempts to regroup the team or take charge with a new strategy)

 

in fact since most of the teams this happens to will have people start laying dead and running around like chickens with their heads cut off, the premade could actually teach you a few things if you bothered to watch them.

 

that said im surprised people keep trying to get "solo only" pvp que's instead of taking the concept of ranked pvp and applying it to regular pvp (and actually have it work).

give everyone a rank (they wouldn't even have to show the rank) and try to que people with other people of the same rank. the longer you sit in que the broader the range of acceptable opponents ex: a guy with 1000 rank would sit in que for 20 seconds looking for 1100 rank's then switch to 1000-1300 ect until teams were made.

 

pretty sure it would actually solve all pvp que "problems" and would not effect que times hardly at all.

if they made cross server ques and applied a formula, the pvp que system would be perfect. (which i personally don't advise you to get your hopes up)

Edited May 30, 2013 by dufox

[Comfterbilly]

What we have here is two groups of individuals: pugs vs premades. Pugs want a divorce, premades want a forced marriage.

 

No means no. The side that's wrong is the side demanding something that we dont want to give. Behind the auspices of their big show of innocent intentions, the truth is they will say anything to not have to give up their free valor farm. Before it was ranked now its matcmaking, next it will be whatever else it has to be for the free raid on pugs to continue.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[cycao]

What we have here is two groups of individuals: pugs vs premades. Pugs want a divorce, premades want a forced marriage.

 

No means no. The side that's wrong is the side demanding something that we dont want to give. Behind the auspices of their big show of innocent intentions, the truth is they will say anything to not have to give up their free valor farm. Before it was ranked now its matcmaking, next it will be whatever else it has to be for the free raid on pugs to continue.

 

Trust me, when doing regs nothing would make me happier than to seperate the queues so I no longer need to hear pugs whine and moan but without cross server I do not see this happening.

 

If they do split and go solo v solo only I bet me crappy paycheck that people will complain that some playeres are more skilled and demand a matchmaking system for the solo queue.