no hk51 for solo players

[Lostpenguins]

Too bad you didn't read my post, huh?

 

Just because you SAY an MMO is predominantly a grouping-oriented game doesn't make it so, unless you think that sheer repetion of a mistaken idea makes it true somehow. That is your opinion, not a truth.

 

I have repeatedly given many reasons why I, as a solo player, enjoy many aspects of the MMO concept.

 

Please do not mischaracterize me; I have never demanded anything of Bioware; I have only asked, politely, that something be added to the game which will benefit all players.

 

Nor do I see where or how my request to add something to the game can be termed 'childish'.

 

It seems self-evident that something which benefits all players is a GOOD THING; that which only benefits a subset of the player base is less so.

 

P. S.

I have never played KOTOR or mentioned it in any of my posts, so I don't know where your thinking brought that idea to this discussion.

 

P. P .S.

Oh, btw, good luck with that "train a cat to take commands like a dog" thing!

No, you didn't ask politely. You generalized and insulted anyone who disagreed with you. It wasn't even an under-handed comment. You directly called those who feel that MMO's should require you to group for certain things elitist and childish.

 

I don't think MMO's have to do everything group-wise. But MMO's do have some things that require group activity. Go look it up on wikipedia. That's not just my opinion of what an MMO is, but ACTUALLY what an MMO is. I didn't say everything was group content. The thing is, HK-51 fell on the side of group content and there are people in here upset because he's group content. Why? You're complaining that something you want is group content. Well, let's face it. You're playing a game that has group content in it. SOME THINGS IN THIS GAME WILL REQUIRE GROUPING UP IF YOU WANT IT. HK-51 is one of those things.

 

You complain that HK-51 forces you to group up. But those who understand that an MMO is a group game... most of us wouldn't complain if HK-51 was only obtained through solo missions. We'd be just fine with that. We accept that some things are soloable... others things require groups. And we just chug along with that. The solo players seem to understand that some things in this game require group content, but when it's suddenly something they want, now they flip out and demand a change.

 

This game has been out for almost a year. It is not the first game of it's kind. Plenty of games before it and even many examples shown in this game prove that sometimes you need to group up to get something. You've seen to been complacent with that until that shiny bobble you wanted suddenly was on that other side of the fence.

 

And no, something that benefits all isn't necessarily a good thing. If they just gave everyone max gear and infinite credits... that would be for the good of all, wouldn't it? Then we could stop worrying about loot, and money... and yada yada yada. No. Sometimes to make a prize sweeter you need to make the person work for it. Just handing it out to them their way, all the time, isn't always a good thing.

[Lostpenguins]

Isn't the gear you refer to unobtainable by a solo player?

No. The only thing you can't obtain unless you group it is set bonuses. You can buy every mod, hilt, barrel, enh, armoring from players who have RE'd the patterns in ops.

[Urael]

Actually, you're right I didn't read the entirety of the thread, and yet I do know your position on this. Just because HK-51 is a nod to HK-47 and the corresponding Knights of the Old Republic games, doesn't mean he should be solo achievable. You're gonna hafta come up with a better reason than just "The original games were single player, so he should be able to be attained solo", because this isn't a single player game. It's a MMO. Content meant to be experienced with others.

 

My reasoning has everything to do with the type of game The Old Republic is. Your reasoning is falling back on nostalgia. That simply doesn't work with a game set in a genre with the words "Massively Multiplayer Online" in it. MMORPGs are meant to be experienced with a group.

 

Just like the dude that can solo End of Torvix over in the black hole with his combination of Rakatas and Black Hole gears and 500 presence factor: Just because you're an outlier, doesn't make everyone else "weak sauce". No, I didn't take that comment seriously, I figured I'd include it to make a point though. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean that's how it's meant to be.

 

Prime example (I know, it's an old game, oh well lol) is Everquest's Sleeper. He wasn't meant to be awakened, at least not for a VERY long time. One guild caught a glitch, and woke Kerafyrm up. The Game Masters covered it up (not really, but they tried), when they saw it leaked anyway, they patched the game, added in the Sleeper Awakens content, and set the dragon loose.

 

But that's a bit offtopic there, and I apologize for that. Fact remains, SW:TOR is in the MMORPG genre of games, it's great they're allowing the casual gamers to solo most of the stuff. It took me 10 years to get my epic weapons in Everquest because I'm a casual player, I just didn't have the time to sit and camp all that stuff, nor did I have the manpower (guild was always too busy, blah blah blah) to do it. So yeah, it's great they allow casual gamers to get somewhere, but items like the top armors/weapons, and a companion that isn't part of your storyline? Nah, that needs to remain group content because it's not a necessity.

 

I never said that "casuals" should be "given" HK-51. I also said that HK-51 may be obtainable for "extreem" solo fans but, "normal" solo players it would be a bit tough. I also said that a possible compromise would be instead of a HM OP that it be a H 4+ as an easier attempt by a normal solo player. Again I never said make it easy. You didn't read everything an are mischaracterizing what "I said" base on "your guess at what I said". I also have said in other threads that I am against giving away "high end" armour and weapons. HK-51 is a "vanity" item. It is not game breaking/p2win item.

[Lostpenguins]

It is not game breaking/p2win item.

And it's not life-ending to have to group with 3 random strangers for 30-45 minutes. Just do it. They're not changing it.

[Urael]

And it's not life-ending to have to group with 3 random strangers for 30-45 minutes. Just do it. They're not changing it.

 

I don't PUG for reasons I have stated and I won't. I will get him by myself at some point, I can wait till I am geared or an expansion that bumps me up 5 levels if I am not successful. If I eventually find a reliable guild (for each faction) that I click with on my main server I may group with guildies. Right now the guilds I am in don't have many people on anymore. But, I won't PUG.

[Kendaric]

Well, the good news:

 

Apparently HK-51 is a legacy companion according to someone on PTS, so we only have to endure the HM FP once and can then buy an unlock for him on an alt (and apparently he can join a pre-50 crew).

 

Granted, that doesn't solve the issue at hand but at least for me it's a relief to know I don't have to run a HM multiple times.

Here's the PTS discussion about this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=546909

Edited October 24, 2012 by Kendaric
Link included

[Urael]

Well, the good news:

 

Apparently HK-51 is a legacy companion according to someone on PTS, so we only have to endure the HM FP once and can then buy an unlock for him on an alt (and apparently he can join a pre-50 crew).

 

Granted, that doesn't solve the issue at hand but at least for me it's a relief to know I don't have to run a HM multiple times.

 

Good to know. Thanks for posting this info.

[Lostpenguins]

I don't PUG for reasons I have stated and I won't. I will get him by myself at some point, I can wait till I am geared or an expansion that bumps me up 5 levels if I am not successful. If I eventually find a reliable guild (for each faction) that I click with on my main server I may group with guildies. Right now the guilds I am in don't have many people on anymore. But, I won't PUG.

That's fine. You seem to understand that if you're not going to pursue all available options then you're okay with possibly not getting it anytime soon.

[Urael]

That's fine. You seem to understand that if you're not going to pursue all available options then you're okay with possibly not getting it anytime soon.

 

Aye. And I have never said I wanted HK-51 "NAO".

 

If what Kendaric posted holds, then that is some mitigation on having to do a HM OP (group or solo).

Edited October 24, 2012 by Urael

[LrdRahvin]

Well, the good news:

 

Apparently HK-51 is a legacy companion according to someone on PTS, so we only have to endure the HM FP once and can then buy an unlock for him on an alt (and apparently he can join a pre-50 crew).

 

Granted, that doesn't solve the issue at hand but at least for me it's a relief to know I don't have to run a HM multiple times.

 

Yeah...the way it currently works on the pts is you must first unlock HK through the quest series on one character. He then becomes available to be unlocked as a a legacy character perk for any additional characters (i.e. must be done for each character like all other character perks- he's not a legacy-wide unlock).

 

Now...so far on pts almost all character perks have been changed to dual ways of unlocking...either with in game creds. or cc. HK at this point is in game cred. unlock only at this point...although that could also be a bug as there are a TON of display, text, and tooltip errors all over the place in cartel shop (so not beyond possibility the the legacy tooltip fo his unlock is incorrext/bug).

 

If it isn't it will be in game creds. only and the current price on pts in 1 million per character. Hope that info helps someone

[LrdRahvin]

Aye. And I have never said I wanted HK-51 "NAO".

 

If what Kendaric posted holds, then that is some mitigation on having to do a HM OP (group or solo).

 

See below/above

[Urael]

Yeah...the way it currently works on the pts is you must first unlock HK through the quest series on one character. He then becomes available to be unlocked as a a legacy character perk for any additional characters (i.e. must be done for each character like all other character perks- he's not a legacy-wide unlock).

 

Now...so far on pts almost all character perks have been changed to dual ways of unlocking...either with in game creds. or cc. HK at this point is in game cred. unlock only at this point...although that could also be a bug as there are a TON of display, text, and tooltip errors all over the place in cartel shop (so not beyond possibility the the legacy tooltip fo his unlock is incorrext/bug).

 

If it isn't it will be in game creds. only and the current price on pts in 1 million per character. Hope that info helps someone

 

Thanks for the update!

[GnatB]

Well, the good news:

 

Apparently HK-51 is a legacy companion according to someone on PTS, so we only have to endure the HM FP once and can then buy an unlock for him on an alt (and apparently he can join a pre-50 crew).

 

Well, there goes the argument that he's only worthwhile for endgame lvl 50 players, who are presumably the ones doing HM's anyways. He's now even MORE singleplayer story-centric content.

[Urael]

Well, there goes the argument that he's only worthwhile for endgame lvl 50 players, who are presumably the ones doing HM's anyways. He's now even MORE singleplayer story-centric content.

 

Indeed.

[mpdugas]

No. The only thing you can't obtain unless you group it is set bonuses. You can buy every mod, hilt, barrel, enh, armoring from players who have RE'd the patterns in ops.

 

Then set bonuses are not available to a solo player...that's what I thought...solo players can't get the same gear.

[mpdugas]

the game is a mmo,and only soloing defeats the purpose of a mmo.If your that anti social then go play a single player rpg like kotor and kotor 2.both of which you can purchase for like 10 bucks off of steam.It's like going to a crowded night club and not interacting with other people.I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt maybe noone told you mmo means massive multiplayer online.The idea behind the genre is to socialize and play the game with other people.

 

MMO > grouping

[mpdugas]

I am willing to bet that most of these "solo" Players that do not want to participate in dungeons have all used the GTN.

 

Guess what, that is other player funded, so thats not really solo work, as other players post those items.

 

As I said before, "not available" and " I dont want to meet the requirments" are two totally different things.

 

You gotta read the whole posts; no one has said that a solo player wants no interaction with other players; the GTN has been mentioned many times as a value to a solo player...

 

I, personally, have only asked for an alternative route, open to a solo player, to obtain comparable game content granted to group-centric players. I just do not want to be barred from high-end content because I do not want to group to obtain it, nor do I want to be forced to group to obtain it.

 

There is a common misconception that MMO = grouping; it is not.

 

An MMO has many more community aspects to it other than grouping, so MMO > grouping.

 

I've never asked that the game be "dumbed-down" so that a solo player can easily obtain high-level content.

 

I have requested, not demanded, that alternative (and comparably difficult) means to access high-end content be available to all.

 

I do not believe that grouping represents the most difficult level of play in an MMO. I'ver played waaay to many MMORPGs and grouped in all of them. I simply object to it becoming a requirement for advancement in the game content.

 

I cannot see how adding new, comparably-difficult paths to high achievement for all is a bad thing.

[Lostpenguins]

Then set bonuses are not available to a solo player...that's what I thought...solo players can't get the same gear.

Well, technically you can.

 

You make a bunch of credits (can be done solo play).

 

You then buy ilvl63 armorings, mods, enh, barrels and/or hilts to gear out your main and your companion with ilvl 63 gear (probably a healer).

 

Then do HM FP's solo (like Black Talon which is super easy if you completely outgear it) turning in the daily and weekly quest rewards. Get the columi comms.

 

Use the comms to buy the set pieces.

 

Stick all your ilvl63 gear in there. Presto, you now have Dread Guard equivalent gear with Set Bonuses.

 

Still, you're not complaining about set gear being unavailable, are you?

[Lostpenguins]

Well, there goes the argument that he's only worthwhile for endgame lvl 50 players, who are presumably the ones doing HM's anyways. He's now even MORE singleplayer story-centric content.

Huh? Who says HK-51 is only good for endgame lvl 50 players? Most of the people pro-group aren't saying whether he's for single play or group play. We're just saying that sometimes in an MMO, you gotta do some group play to get some stuff. That's it.

[Lostpenguins]

You gotta read the whole posts; no one has said that a solo player wants no interaction with other players; the GTN has been mentioned many times as a value to a solo player...

 

I, personally, have only asked for an alternative route, open to a solo player, to obtain comparable game content granted to group-centric players. I just do not want to be barred from high-end content because I do not want to group to obtain it, nor do I want to be forced to group to obtain it.

 

There is a common misconception that MMO = grouping; it is not.

 

An MMO has many more community aspects to it other than grouping, so MMO > grouping.

 

I've never asked that the game be "dumbed-down" so that a solo player can easily obtain high-level content.

 

I have requested, not demanded, that alternative (and comparably difficult) means to access high-end content be available to all.

 

I do not believe that grouping represents the most difficult level of play in an MMO. I'ver played waaay to many MMORPGs and grouped in all of them. I simply object to it becoming a requirement for advancement in the game content.

 

I cannot see how adding new, comparably-difficult paths to high achievement for all is a bad thing.

Go look up what an MMO is. You're asking for a different genre of game because that IS NOT what an MMO is. You want there to be a single-player RPG that exists in the world of an MMO that gives you all of the same content. That's not going to happen. Accept it.

 

MMO =/= Everything has to be grouped. Means some things require group content.

 

You even said it yourself, "I just do not want to be barred from high-end content because I do not want to group to obtain it, nor do I want to be forced to group to obtain it." Basically, you want to make this game play however you want it to play (especially when you want to change the genre of the game) and that's the end of it. Sorry, that's now how it works. You need to find yourself a single player RPG that is built to allow you to do everything as a solo-player. KOTOR, DA, AC, GoW... there's plenty of them out there.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Urael]

Go look up what an MMO is. You're asking for a different genre of game because that IS NOT what an MMO is. You want there to be a single-player RPG that exists in the world of an MMO that gives you all of the same content. That's not going to happen. Accept it.

 

You even said it yourself, "I just do not want to be barred from high-end content because I do not want to group to obtain it, nor do I want to be forced to group to obtain it." Basically, you want to make this game play however you want it to play (especially when you want to change the genre of the game) and that's the end of it. Sorry, that's now how it works. You need to find yourself a single player RPG that is built to allow you to do everything as a solo-player. KOTOR, DA, AC, GoW... there's plenty of them out there.

 

This PoV is nolonger the prevailing PoV of the majority of gamers and game companies are designing to this in part. You have to admit the gamer of today that plays MMORPGs is not the same as the gamer that started playin in this "genre" since the MUD/MOO days (text no graphics for those reading that don't know).

 

On the one had I can agree with you and held that view until about BC in WoW when I just had about enough of all the n00bs ( not newbies but n00bs) playing WoW and subsequent other MMORPGs, whining and crying and getting the games dumbed down and being rude and crude and offensive in "groups". Since that time I have had to accept that the "community" was changing from a loose confederation of gamers/sci-fi/comic-book geeks to "everyman" as MMORPGs and "gaming in general" became a main streamed commodity.

 

With this main streaming of games and MMORPGs comes the shift in perception of what a MMORPG should mean. The MMO part as it is now viewed no longer means "games you must play with others" but to "games that you have the oportunity to play with others". This is evident as you look at all the AAA titles on the market.

 

All of that said, that does not mean that I should think that "items" that are for competitive play (i.e. High-End PvP and Raiding) should be made available to the average "solo" players. I do think they should be available for "extreem solo" players ( meaning A LOT of work to aquire even more than grouping ). In the case of HK-51, still maintain that the droid is more "fluff" than commpetative end game "gear" and should be a tich easier to aquire for the "average solo" player but still require A LOT of work to aquire.

[Lostpenguins]

This PoV is nolonger the prevailing PoV of the majority of gamers and game companies are designing to this in part. You have to admit the gamer of today that plays MMORPGs is not the same as the gamer that started playin in this "genre" since the MUD/MOO days (text no graphics for those reading that don't know).

 

On the one had I can agree with you and held that view until about BC in WoW when I just had about enough of all the n00bs ( not newbies but n00bs) playing WoW and subsequent other MMORPGs, whining and crying and getting the games dumbed down and being rude and crude and offensive in "groups". Since that time I have had to accept that the "community" was changing from a loose confederation of gamers/sci-fi/comic-book geeks to "everyman" as MMORPGs and "gaming in general" became a main streamed commodity.

 

With this main streaming of games and MMORPGs comes the shift in perception of what a MMORPG should mean. The MMO part as it is now viewed no longer means "games you must play with others" but to "games that you have the oportunity to play with others". This is evident as you look at all the AAA titles on the market.

 

All of that said, that does not mean that I should think that "items" that are for competitive play (i.e. High-End PvP and Raiding) should be made available to the average "solo" players. I do think they should be available for "extreem solo" players ( meaning A LOT of work to aquire even more than grouping ). In the case of HK-51, still maintain that the droid is more "fluff" than commpetative end game "gear" and should be a tich easier to aquire for the "average solo" player but still require A LOT of work to aquire.

Show me numbers to show that it's a majority of people who want to play MMO's solo and I'll believe you. Until then, you're not convincing me. I also understand that the increase of interest in the MMO world has brought a broader group in which does encompass those that cannot or choose not to group up for any content. I have a friend who never ran dugeons in WoW (tried once, didn't like the time commitment to a group). But knowing there are some who prefer solo play doesn't mean it's a majority of the MMO player base. I really, really, find it hard to believe that there are more players in SWTOR who choose not to group than those who do. And, yet, here we are, having this discussion because I feel a very small minority are making such a holler because they're dragging their heels instead of sucking it up and doing a dungeon.

[AshlaBoga]

Isn't the gear you refer to unobtainable by a solo player?

 

You can currently do the BH weekly solo (easier if you're Imperial) in daily gear.

If you did this for MANY weeks you could have a BH set. And since you'd have a lot of credits via doing this, you could buy the overpriced RE'd HM EC and HM TfB gear off the GTN.

 

It's not that a solo player can't get the gear required to solo HM flashpoints, it's that it would take them sever months. Let's look at it this way, if you play solo it will take you +16 times longer to gear up than if you group. Therefore, a person who chooses to solo will have to invest more time for a the same for the same (or a lesser) result.

 

Is getting HK-51 solo possible? Yes, but getting the gear for it would take a solo player until mid/late 2013.

Is that fair? I'm leaning towards it being fair (reminds me of the WoW Ironman challenge).

[mothear]

I am willing to bet that most of these "solo" Players that do not want to participate in dungeons have all used the GTN.

 

Guess what, that is other player funded, so thats not really solo work, as other players post those items.

 

As I said before, "not available" and " I dont want to meet the requirments" are two totally different things.

 

Well when many of the grouping fraternity couldn't be bothered to 'work' to group they squealed for a group finder and got one.

[mothear]

..... Go look it up on wikipedia. That's not just my opinion of what an MMO is, but ACTUALLY what an MMO is. .......

 

If you can tell me anything in WoW that requires grouping apart from dungeons/raids/world bosses and some heroic quests out in the world I would be surprised. Your fact is opinion in my opinion!