no hk51 for solo players

[hages]

I'd drop my sub instantly and go play KotOR III right now if that was possible. You're playing an MMO made by a single-player RPG developer. BioWare's fans expect single-player content.

 

This is really nonsense. U play SWTOR MMO..not swtor rpg. u group or u will not get hk. simple as that. and what is more. solo players should get even less then this.

[Maviarab]

Hages...

 

That's exactly what we have been discussing. Why should I get less? it's not that I refuse to group, it;'s just very awkward for me most of the time, and as has been said, irksome for others also (and I do like to respect others feelings in an MMO). I have often said (in this game and others), happy to help/join, but give me 20 mins (So I can try and make sure I will not be interrupted) or say I can come, but may have to go afk 10 mins in etc etc...

 

I then give them the choice to whether to group with me or not, knowing I may vanish any minute, and that they will have to wait for me when they themselves may be on a tight schedule.

 

So again, something like a companion (and right now, lets get this clear, I don't really care about KH to be honest, if i get the chance great, if not, no big deal, because of my own personal restrictions), why should I be excluded?

 

Not like it's a pvp pet, or a perk speeder for being rank 10 blah blah....all that's fine....I accept that I'll never have pvp gear (don't like pvp etc), or accept I'll never see that or do this etc...if I over level a FP, I'll run that solo just to see the content if I wasn't fortunate enough to have the time, be online and find a group when it was on-level.

 

But why should one be excluded from 'important' content', just because one mainly solo's the game? We are not talking pvp armour, or a perk, or something equally similar...

 

Again, the fact it is an MMO is irrelevant. We're in 2012 now, MMO's cater to single players, like it or leave it in that regards. Group 'content' fine...have no problems with it being exclusive, or mandatory t have a group. Yes, this is an MMO. But basic content like a companion?

 

When did companions become group only content? Maybe I'll just have to get him when the level cap is raised to 65

 

(and again, not talking for myself here, talking for solo players in general)

Edited October 18, 2012 by Maviarab

[Lostpenguins]

Sigh, where do I begin...

Harsh, IMO.

 

In the old days, it was pretty easy and trouble free to random group with others in an MMO. But then came WoW ...

Pretty easy and trouble-free? The reason LFG tools were created were because people were complaining how hard it was to find groups in WoW. I'm pretty sure EQ never had a random group maker...

But then came WoW and all the mechanics that in some ways encourage bad behaviors. Prior to WoW (middle years, when lfg, cross realm, and other mechanics to let people sit in a capital and random group for instances) people were pretty cool, polite, and considerate about random grouping and random grouping was common. PUGs become more of a problem then a benefit for many, due to player behaviors.

I could easily say that many people complain about a game when there isn't a LFG tool. I know I have complained about it, and so have my guildmates. Before LFG there were many posts complaining why there isn't a LFG tool so BW built one. I believe you're looking through rose-tinted glasses at the golden years of MMO's and your use of the word "many" is highly arguable. Tbh, my own personal experience is that more often then not, my experience with PUGS in Rift and SWTOR post LFG tool, and in WoW pre LFG tool, were okay to good with very, very few being bad. In both cases of pre and post, you could easily find someone who will be rude and leave or be elitist, etc. And if that person leaves which system makes it harder to find a replacement? Tbh, I think this is derailing from the issue

 

It simply is not worth the grief you expose yourself to in todays MMO community where every 3rd or 4th person wears their keester for a hat.

It's hard to discuss this topic with you when you put in fictitious numbers. You're making hyperboles to give your argument more weight, but in trying to sound civilized in your discussion you're bringing nothing good to discuss with outlandish statements like this. In my own personal experience pugging definitely doesn't bring 1/3 or 1/4 people who are not nice. That would be one person in every group. And I can certainly that isn't true as most groups I have played with have been quality people and almost none of them are rude. If I did a daily HM everyday for a week and one person in that entire week was rude... well, that's 1 person in 21 people. Not including me. That means, when not factoring my behavior in, it's less than 5% of the people I deal with who are jerks. Even if it was twice in a week, that number only jumps to 9%... that's far less than the 25-33% numbers you're spouting.

 

I personally never PUG. No exceptions. I play to have fun, not get griefed by anti-social and often sociopathic behaviors that random PUGs bring to today's MMOs.

Once again your making absolute and extreme statements. Let me fix your statement by adding one word "that random PUGs CAN bring to today's MMOs.

Guess what? People griefing has been around much longer than in today's MMO's. You don't even need to be grouped to see people exhibiting bad behavior. Ever played EQ and had someone train a bunch of mobs on you? So don't say blame it on PUGs today as ruining your experience. Jerks have been around long before MMO's came around so blaming PUGs for jerk behavior is like saying a dress makes you look fat. It's the fat that makes you look fat. Just like it's the jerk who makes the jerk behavior possible.

 

As to the topic at hand, Bioware made this game to be playable by many different people and play styles, which includes a lot of solo content if that is what people choose to do.

Let me stop you right there. You just said "a lot of solo content"... which would imply "not all of content is for solo play". If you accept it, then accept that HK-51 is just not in that subset.

 

NOW, since HK51 is essentialy a feature of solo play (he's a companion, not a fluff pet or bind on pickup purple shiny), Bioware really should provide a two tier quest system as follows: 1) multi-part quest line that requires some grouping. 2) a multi-part quest line that does not require grouping, but does require more effort and initative for the solo player.

I disagree. They "shouldn't" have to do anything to accommodate the solo player simply because they choose not to spend 30 minutes grouping with someone else. There's no reason they can't bite down and grin through a HM Foundry. Heck, why not sit there and shout in General that they will pay X amount of credits to have 3 people run them through it w/out them going into the instance? That way, they don't have to actually do HM foundry as a group. There are alternatives to keep players from having to actually do HM Foundry, but all these people demanding HK-51 be attainable by solo experience are just demanding that a genre be changed from MMO to single player RPG just because the play it that way. That's a slippery slope. Any gear you obtain in this game naturally increases your own ability to solo content faster and more easily, so why shouldn't all gear be obtainable via solo play? Why don't we just start asking for that as well?

 

Fact is, some people really enjoy seeing how far they can push the envelope of skill, cunning, and inventiveness to solo content that typically would require a 2 or 4 man group. So how about we stop with that hate directed at people who want to experience solo content.

It's not hate, it's annoyance that this thread continues with people demanding whatever they want even though they're arguing for BW to change the genre from "MMO with some solo content" to "Single Player RPG with grouping possible". That's not the game I bought because I understood what kind of game I'm buying.

[hages]

Hages...

 

That's exactly what we have been discussing. Why should I get less? it's not that I refuse to group, it;'s just very awkward for me most of the time, and as has been said, irksome for others also (and I do like to respect others feelings in an MMO). I have often said (in this game and others), happy to help/join, but give me 20 mins (So I can try and make sure I will not be interrupted) or say I can come, but may have to go afk 10 mins in etc etc...

 

I then give them the choice to whether to group with me or not, knowing I may vanish any minute, and that they will have to wait for me when they themselves may be on a tight schedule.

 

So again, something like a companion (and right now, lets get this clear, I don't really care about KH to be honest, if i get the chance great, if not, no big deal, because of my own personal restrictions), why should I be excluded?

 

Not like it's a pvp pet, or a perk speeder for being rank 10 blah blah....all that's fine....I accept that I'll never have pvp gear (don't like pvp etc), or accept I'll never see that or do this etc...if I over level a FP, I'll run that solo just to see the content if I wasn't fortunate enough to have the time, be online and find a group when it was on-level.

 

But why should one be excluded from 'important' content', just because one mainly solo's the game? We are not talking pvp armour, or a perk, or something equally similar...

 

Again, the fact it is an MMO is irrelevant. We're in 2012 now, MMO's cater to single players, like it or leave it in that regards. Group 'content' fine...have no problems with it being exclusive, or mandatory t have a group. Yes, this is an MMO. But basic content like a companion?

 

When did companions become group only content? Maybe I'll just have to get him when the level cap is raised to 65

 

(and again, not talking for myself here, talking for solo players in general)

I can understand that u may not have alot time for doing groupq or fp (i have a family so i do understand this)

But if u are in a nice guild. they would not make a problem if u have to go afk in times. aftheral a guild are friend. In a pug well..that is something else.

 

It is not that i would not wanna give solo players HK. everyone should get them. but is it really such a big scarifice to do 2 fps? come on...

 

And the same goed for players who have no char on the oppesite fraction. how hard can it be to make a lvl 10 char to get what u need and afther just delete it.

[Jett-Rinn]

Harsh, IMO.

 

Grouping behaviors have changed a lot in MMOs over the years. In the old days, it was pretty easy and trouble free to random group with others in an MMO. But then came WoW and all the mechanics that in some ways encourage bad behaviors. Prior to WoW (middle years, when lfg, cross realm, and other mechanics to let people sit in a capital and random group for instances) people were pretty cool, polite, and considerate about random grouping and random grouping was common. PUGs become more of a problem then a benefit for many, due to player behaviors.

 

Now days, many people simply will not random group in an MMO, for reasons already expressed by many in these forums since launch. It simply is not worth the grief you expose yourself to in todays MMO community where every 3rd or 4th person wears their keester for a hat.

 

I personally never PUG. No exceptions. I play to have fun, not get griefed by anti-social and often sociopathic behaviors that random PUGs bring to today's MMOs. I do however group with people I know and trust, and with guild mates. As do many people in todays MMOs. I have no personal issue with the current quest chain for HK, as friends and guildmates will be there to help me (and accomadate me on my schedule and enjoyment needs).

 

As to the topic at hand, Bioware made this game to be playable by many different people and play styles, which includes a lot of solo content if that is what people choose to do. Solo does not mean you do not enjoy the MMO aspects of the game, it simply means you wish to have more control to your play experience then being forced to group with random hopping gerbils, neons, and empty armor posing as virtual meat bags. NOW, since HK51 is essentialy a feature of solo play (he's a companion, not a fluff pet or bind on pickup purple shiny), Bioware really should provide a two tier quest system as follows: 1) multi-part quest line that requires some grouping. 2) a multi-part quest line that does not require grouping, but does require more effort and initative for the solo player.

 

Fact is, some people really enjoy seeing how far they can push the envelope of skill, cunning, and inventiveness to solo content that typically would require a 2 or 4 man group. So how about we stop with that hate directed at people who want to experience solo content.

 

Bingo as usual you nailed it.

[Krewel]

If you've been playing this game solo since launch, I pity you, I truly do. Please, cry some more how you can't get something solo in an MMO. Avoid the genre, pls.

[Lostpenguins]

Again, the fact it is an MMO is irrelevant. We're in 2012 now, MMO's cater to single players, like it or leave it in that regards. Group 'content' fine...have no problems with it being exclusive, or mandatory t have a group. Yes, this is an MMO. But basic content like a companion?

And this is the part I find most hilarious. You recognize that it's an MMO, which is the most relevant point to this argument. I keep saying it, "You're complaining that SWTOR is an MMO". What's the point in doing that? And if MMO's catered to single player as the priority, then there would be no increased benefit to grouping. Since all PvP rewards and the highest-tiered gear, heck, even social points, and big storylines, are all only obtained via group play, I'd say your assumption that MMO's (including SWTOR) cater to single play.

[Andryah]

And this is the part I find most hilarious. You recognize that it's an MMO, which is the most relevant point to this argument. I keep saying it, "You're complaining that SWTOR is an MMO". What's the point in doing that? And if MMO's catered to single player as the priority, then there would be no increased benefit to grouping. Since all PvP rewards and the highest-tiered gear, heck, even social points, and big storylines, are all only obtained via group play, I'd say your assumption that MMO's (including SWTOR) cater to single play.

 

I know you want to define and dictate what MMO means in 2012, but you cannot, no matter how hard you try. MMO players are a very diverse group these days. MMOs are what market forces drive them to be....and are what a broad player base wants.... and in 2012 MMOs are multi-player games that are BOTH group and solo friendly.

[metalfenix]

I don't have any problem with grouping randoms (I do an daily base to get done heroics and random FP) crossing a PvP area (sometimes you have to do it) but still...HK-51 is not worth the effort for me.

 

The attractive of HK on Kotor II were his awesome lines and comments, I loved to quest with him back in the day, but now this HK-51...looks like a vanity pet you can equip and attack. It has no use levelling (it's meant to be an "endgame" companion), maybe he doesn't even have companion's quests that are given after certain affection level. And besides, most endgame consists on doing HM FP, Operations and warzones, where companions are not required or permitted.

 

If Only HK were a companion that can be obtained in the middle of act II or III I wouldn't mind.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

This is a complete OUTRAGE.

 

I never done a single hard modes. Not one. I stayed subbed to this game since it opened. Now I have to go with four strangers and do a hard mode to get this companion. Just GIVE IT TO ME. I stayed subbed when more then half left. My credit is my account.

 

This company would do well just to give me my new companion in the mail.

[Coldin]

I do agree with the OP. HK-51 should be available to the solo player. If the devs feel strongly about locking it behind a flashpoint, why make it a hard-mode flashpoint? A story-mode flashpoint would be just as suitable.

 

The game may be an MMO, but we've had plenty of content come out so far that caters to the group player. Every players should be able to obtain the new companion, regardless of grouping status.

[Maviarab]

And the same goed for players who have no char on the oppesite fraction. how hard can it be to make a lvl 10 char to get what u need and afther just delete it.

 

I am still quite new...am I missing something with that statement? There an advantage to getting an opposing faction character to level 10?

 

@Krewel

 

Exactly the type of post that is unhelpful.

 

@Penguins...

 

And you're still selectively reading what I write. I'll say it again so it sinks in eh? PvP content, hardcore group instances, end game raid gear blah blah blah...never complained about them. Normal content, should not be mandatory forced content. Because as I tried to explain, MMO's of the past, where you had to group for 'everything', are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Single player MMO's with a lot of 'group interaction with other people' are what we have in the modern MMO market. And you know, and I find this funny that you don't see this, there is actually a marketing reason behind that...

 

@Andryah

 

Thank you. well said.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Maviarab

[hages]

I do agree with the OP. HK-51 should be available to the solo player. If the devs feel strongly about locking it behind a flashpoint, why make it a hard-mode flashpoint? A story-mode flashpoint would be just as suitable.

 

The game may be an MMO, but we've had plenty of content come out so far that caters to the group player. Every players should be able to obtain the new companion, regardless of grouping status.

 

I disagree.

It is an endgame comp. So u have to do some endgame to get it.

[Urael]

I am still quite new...am I missing somethign with that statement? There an advantage to getting an opposing faction character to level 10?

 

You have to get a part in assembling HK on the oposite factions home world. Dulfy recommends getting the character up to 15 if you want to get the part solo. If you just get a toon up to 10 and group you can get the part. OR if you get a toon up to 10 and know someone that can escort you to the part you can get it that way and then Legacy email the part to your lvl 50 main.

[hages]

This is a complete OUTRAGE.

 

I never done a single hard modes. Not one. I stayed subbed to this game since it opened. Now I have to go with four strangers and do a hard mode to get this companion. Just GIVE IT TO ME. I stayed subbed when more then half left. My credit is my account.

 

This company would do well just to give me my new companion in the mail.

 

Are u serious or is this just a joke? u want something? do some effort to get it.

[Urael]

Are u serious or is this just a joke? u want something? do some effort to get it.

 

Look at his post history. That will tell you all you need to know.

[hages]

Look at his post history. That will tell you all you need to know.

 

indeed :-d

[grombrinda]

Omg this post still going on? Someone lock this or something. Apparently they don't understand that this is an mmo and that getting the HK comp is optional.

[Joesixxpack]

> Play solo and get everything you want without restriction

 

> Play MMO requiring some degree of social interaction and teamwork

 

Pick one.

 

 

/Thread.

[LordArtemis]

You're right, they're assumptions, but this discussion is really tiresome about how people try to play the pity-party game ("Woe is me I have interacting with other people" or "I have a real life") or try to play the entitlement game ("I pay just as much money as the next guy") or the no-choice game ("I wanted to play KOTOR 3, but this is all they had").

 

None of those reasons are valid considering the fact that this game is an MMO. It's the genre of the game. I've tried explaining by making an example of complaining why can't I play a jedi in flying genre of a Star Wars game, yet people don't seem to want to answer that. When people are complaining that a non-necessary thing (a companion) requires some group content in an MMO, and that's not fair to make people group in an MMO... to me, that's like arguing why I can't have Ryu romance Chun-Li in Street Fighter 2. That's because that isn't the type of game it is.

 

And you're now hyperbolizing what people are saying. I'm not saying you should't play MMO's because of real life. If you found a great way to enjoy the game through solo content. Fantastic! More power to you. However, that doesn't mean every piece of content should be available to you because you decided to play an MMO as single player RPG. People seem to like to draw a line in the sand and say, "Yeah, I can accept I can't get raid loot, but I should be able to get a companion by solo'ing".

 

I'm asking again... why? It doesn't matter that you can get a lot of things in this game solo, the point is, that it's a group-based game BECAUSE it's an MMO. Everything you can do as a single player can be done as group. But you can't same the same as a single player. You can't do everything a group can. This is one of those things.

 

Why are you asking? Do your really want to know how people feel, have a civil discussion on the issue, or do you simply want to insult those that do not share your opinion?

 

No matter how many different ways you put forth the contention the game, or any game for that matter, as a general rule is not a job. It is a form of entertainment.

 

RPGs have always been multiplayer games. However, in fairness solo RPG games are FAR more popular than MMOs, and they tend to be single player games. So it's not really a stretch to understand why some folks might want their RPG experience to be mostly a solo one.

 

Here's something else to think about. When I play this game with my coworkers in our office the grouping problems seem to disappear, at least the ones that cause me to avoid grouping. Egos is a big one, the fact in my experience that grouping = death and the relative inability to communicate, ESPECIALLY in a game with no chat bubbles. Voice is just not viable in most situations in my experience.

 

Luckilly for me no gear score mechanic exists in this game, and as a direct result in my eyes strangers are much friendlier to group with....reasonable flashpoint and heroic difficulty helps. But in the end I still like solo play..I like other players around to chat with, trade with, buy and sell...but not as much to play with. I guess thats a result of getting spoiled by guild or office play, or maybe its the single player RPG in me.

 

At any rate, I really don't think it deserves that much animosity.

[Sweetiepies]

This is a complete OUTRAGE.

 

I never done a single hard modes. Not one. I stayed subbed to this game since it opened. Now I have to go with four strangers and do a hard mode to get this companion. Just GIVE IT TO ME. I stayed subbed when more then half left. My credit is my account.

 

This company would do well just to give me my new companion in the mail.

 

While we're at it, why not stop wasting time with Makeb, scrap it, automatically level our toons up to level 55, mail us a few full sets of gear (top of the line of course), give us...6 new titles, a free level 55 Cathar of the class of our choice, aaaaannnnnddd, 10,000,000 creds. I like (hate) your awesome (terrible) ideas.

[amnie]

@Amnie...

 

I can agree to an extent, but those vocal enough to moan about this aspect are your usual hardcore base, hell, new expansion out for Lotro past Monday, 10 level cap increase, people were moaning about 'end game' the day after it came out...sorry...you cannot cater to those players enough to keep them happy. I do agree that this 'is' too solo-friendly (why I play MMO's like this)...but that's just bad design by all round from those who matter.

 

 

I am well aware of that - but in the case of TOR it .was. one of the leading 'tortanic' reasons found everywhere. and I can savely assure you that I've played a few MMOs in the last 12 years... TOR's raids are definitely on the lower end of difficulty level. I am not even saying that is a bad thing by default. I personally am kinda glad about it because I am no longer the kind of gamer that wants to spend 8 hours in a dungeon or 30 minutes on the same bossfight (not even counting in wipes) being 'fully there' the whole time.

 

yes, the 'hard core' will never be happy and will always rush through content, but don't forget that when the game first came out there was only EV and KP... when I compare that to lotro and CD? yeah... CD wins hands down.

 

and I still really really enjoy TOR's ops. the mechanics are new and sometimes just plain funny.. (oh I love the third fight for tfb)

Edited October 18, 2012 by amnie

[Lostpenguins]

I know you want to define and dictate what MMO means in 2012, but you cannot, no matter how hard you try. MMO players are a very diverse group these days. MMOs are what market forces drive them to be....and are what a broad player base wants.... and in 2012 MMOs are multi-player games that are BOTH group and solo friendly.

They're still catered toward group play. Tell me, what things are down via only solo play and let's weigh that against what can be done in groups. I'm pretty sure you'll see that solo play is, for the most-part is group play. You even get more xp as a group.

There's only 2 things you cannot do in a group setting:

1) Companion conversations

2) Flight missions

 

And people have been asking for multiplayer flight missions for a while. So that sort of negates #2.

 

Find me an MMO that caters more to the solo player than to the group experience. Please, find me one.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

You know why I should get this compainon without any work? Because it's a video game. When I pay my sub. That enttiels me to nice things. I shouldn't have to do a 10 part series quest. If you want me subbed to this game then THEY WILL modify their rules.

 

It's a video game yet it's biased against people who don't do hard modes. I find it to be a complete waste of time to do hard modes. I have done random dungeons while leveling but never a hard mode. Now I have to jump thorugh al these hoops to get something that should come free. And what happens when I get it? I have re-do all the steps to get him added on other ALTs.

 

Just GIVE IT TO US. No quests. Just open our mailbox and let us do this. Seriously this is a bait and switch just like Legacy.

[Lostpenguins]

At any rate, I really don't think it deserves that much animosity.

It does deserve animosity when someone demanding a change make false statements to support their claim. The poster I was commenting on used fictitious numbers that were grossly bloated in nature to make their argument hold greater weight. And that person brings nothing to the discussion.

 

Have a different opinion, that's fine. I can hold my own opinion that Red should now be called Blue, but that's not going to happen and I shouldn't keep yelling louder and louder just because it's not happening. SWTOR is an MMO and not single player RPG. Yelling louder is doing nothing except creating more noise.