A gold mine trying desperately to sell us dirt.

[Siorac]

That's what made it great. Sure some people didn't like huttball. Those who didn't rolled republic to get an even flavor of ACW and Voidstar. Those who did kept queuing. Like it or not, huttball made SWTOR PvP successful enough to retain hundreds of thousands of PvPers. It showed based off of faction imbalance.

Huttball was the only map where all classes were equally viable.

 

Wow. I mean, wow. Huttball is the map where some classes REALLY shine whereas others bring almost nothing to the table. Tell me with a straight face that every class is as viable in Huttball as a hybrid Juggernaut or a hybrid Assassin. Huttball, due to its very nature, always VASTLY favoured some classes over the others. This is one of the biggest flaws of the map, actually. On the other maps, there's nowhere near the disparity that exists in Huttball.

 

No they weren't. But it does tell us something about how skilled you were back in 1.1.5. If you were any competent player in 1.1.5 you could keep a healer busy enough (without killing them) allowing your team mates to kill other people.

 

Yeah, it's totally my fault. The other 15 people in the warzone had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome, it all turned on my skill level. I am such a great influence. And I'm one of those who cannot be killed or CCd when attacking a healer. I can even keep them busy from the grave if I want to.

 

Not a big concern. Sure they had good burst but all other classes did too. The relics and adrenals made classes like the Arsenal Merc and Sorcerer viable competitively. They actually had burst potential when the cooldown's aligned. It added a dimension of skill and strategic use that separated the terrible players from the decent ones.

 

1.1.5 was close to being good polished PvP for the TOR-tranic. The TTK was just long enough to make skill count.

 

Yeah, the damage potential was lower and that was better. I do not contest that. Class balance, however, wasn't any better; there are always going to be overpowered classes in an MMO and 1.1.5 had them as well (hint: it's not adrenals and relics that made Sorcerers/Sages competitive back then).

 

Roll back the Resolve change, lower damage across the board and I will be happy. If they converted all stuns into mezzes I'd be even happier but that's not gonna happen unfortunately. The first two things partially erase the necessity of it anyway.

 

And quit with the TORtanic crap, it wasn't funny when people started using it and it's certainly very old and very tired now.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Siorac

[Kyemin]

Your opinion is hereby invalidated.

 

By who?! You?!

 

Last time I checked, your opinion was worth the same as mine so...

[UncleOst]

Umm...no.

 

Honestly and truly. Not even a little bit.

 

...care to elaborate?

 

Better question might be...are you capable?

[T-Assassin]

Excellent post, OP.

 

i was server first Battlemaster on MZL back in the day, and had a BLAST PvPing. i played a deception spec Assassin (conceal spec IA in beta).

 

1.2 killed the game for me.

 

i kept hope alive rerolling a Merc/PT, only to be ignored into pvp retirement while other classes improved or worse yet, nerfed into exile (sorc/IA).

 

i play about 4-6 hours a week now...PvE questing with my wife. and i'm playing to spend time with her, not because of my love for the game.

 

you are corrcet, OP. it WAS a gem...now it's just a worry stone in BW's pocket. (it may be slightly smooth with all the handling it gets, but in the end, it's still just a rock.)

 

this game had, and still has, such huge potential for greatness. why it just hasn't come around, i wish i knew....

 

[Zunayson]

But it's refined, precious dirt!

 

Whoever gets that reference, I love you.

[DarkHelsing]

nope, u can stay out lv 50 pvp,

u r not forced to play lv 50 pvp,

pre 50 pvp is more balance pre patch 1.4,

but all are broken post 1.4 anyway.

 

That's by far the most borken thing I've ever read... congrats on that.

[DarkHelsing]

But it's refined, precious dirt!

 

Whoever gets that reference, I love you.

 

Awe, I don't.....

[Majspuffen]

this game had, and still has, such huge potential for greatness. why it just hasn't come around, i wish i knew....

 

 

Because they made the mistake of battling fire with fire, or in this case; world of warcraft with world of warcraft. They've already starting walking down that path and they've done nothing but mess up the game. Perhaps PvE is okay, I don't know. The PvE folk sure were in Denova for a very long time though, so I can't imagine them being a very happy customer base.

 

That and, big companies seemingly cannot admit mistakes. Perhaps they do not believe that they have done any mistakes, what do I know. If you played SWG, then you must know of the "New Game Enhacements" fiasco. That was SWG trying to copy wow and just look what it did to their subscription base. However the core elements of SWG were still there, and kudos to everyone who could still find enjoyment in it.

 

I sort of derailed my point there, so I'll try again; big companies cannot admit mistakes. If they make a bad change, they'd rather try and improve upon that mistake rather than do a rollback. I can't recall Bioware doing a single rollback in SWTOR yet, and I cannot remember Blizzard doing it either... except for once, in the burning crusade. Enhacement Shamans were among the classes on the PTR that were going to get a mortal strike debuff. However, Blizzard changed that. But that doesn't count, it was in testing :/ ...

Edited May 5, 2013 by Majspuffen

[DarkHelsing]

So, I've been back now for less than two whole months, I pvp every night, do my daily and a little extra... this is how I know the gear gap is horrible.

 

The game is one sided. I have had 3 game so far, THREE, that have been close calls. Every single other game has been won or lost by a land slide... that is improper balance, improper gear balance, and improper class balance... fore going all the stupid resolve issues and WZ bugs that is.

[DarkHelsing]

Because they made the mistake of battling fire with fire, or in this case; world of warcraft with world of warcraft. They've already starting walking down that path and they've done nothing but mess up the game. Perhaps PvE is okay, I don't know. The PvE folk sure were in Denova for a very long time though, so I can't imagine them being a very happy customer base.

 

That and, big companies seemingly cannot admit mistakes. Perhaps they do not believe that they have done any mistakes, what do I know. If you played SWG, then you must know of the "New Game Enhacements" fiasco. That was SWG trying to copy wow and just look what it did to their subscription base. However the core elements of SWG were still there, and kudos to everyone who could still find enjoyment in it.

 

I sort of derailed my point there, so I'll try again; big companions cannot admit mistakes. If they make a bad change, they'd rather try and improve upon that mistake rather than do a rollback. I can't recall Bioware doing a single rollback in SWTOR yet, and I cannot remember Blizzard doing it either... except for once, in the burning crusade. Enhacement Shamans were among the classes on the PTR that were going to get a mortal strike debuff. However, Blizzard changed that. But that doesn't count, it was in testing :/ ...

 

I agree. Even a PTS with a roll back on it just to see what kind of reaction the sub base gives... I dunno, they are millionaires and I am just a dumb infantry grunt, what do I know...

[DarkHelsing]

Yeah, my ideas are just personal preference, but your "circle of balance" is perfectly good, and if it allows the devs to actually get some decent class balance in the game, I'm all for it.

 

Thank you. Without trying to be overly opinionated that "only this one idea will work", I think it is the best idea being that it was something this game had at launch and we got to see it in action, it would appear as if people liked it prior to it being changed in patch 1.2

[Asturias]

All of your gear suggestions are missing the real problem in PvP. Warzone consumables. They alone make a bigger difference than any gear difference between War Hero and Recruit. Most people here seem to think that a War Hero geared Sage/Sorcerer takes far less damage than a recruit. That is simply untrue. Everything still hits like a truck.

 

The only difference is a War-Hero geared Sorcerer/Sage is likely to use Warzone adrenals to make them take 15% less damage, or use Warzone medpacks to heal 35% of their HP.

 

People need to read this above post. L2P and adapt, nuff said.

 

All I am hearing from this post is "I used to be awesome way back than (Beta tester would have an advantage among new players who were not) but when I returned players are better than me so I will blame the update patching".

[DarkHelsing]

People need to read this above post. L2P and adapt, nuff said.

 

All I am hearing from this post is "I used to be awesome way back than (Beta tester would have an advantage among new players who were not) but when I returned players are better than me so I will blame the update patching".

 

Actually the underlined part is the problem, you are reading between lines that are not there, creating your own issue to something that didn't contain that issue. It's a problem many have, and it's not really fixable because you don't and won't see that you're doing it. It's common among people that refuse to see points of views that differ from their own.

Edited October 19, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[Henu]

This is what BW need to do.... i hire someone that PLAYS the game....

[salaryman]

By who?! You?!

 

Last time I checked, your opinion was worth the same as mine so...

 

Your opinion is hereby invalidated again. The only value your argument has is that it (ironically) lists everything that is wrong with pvp, simply proving OP's point--yet again.

[salaryman]

Because they made the mistake of battling fire with fire, or in this case; world of warcraft with world of warcraft. They've already starting walking down that path and they've done nothing but mess up the game. Perhaps PvE is okay, I don't know. The PvE folk sure were in Denova for a very long time though, so I can't imagine them being a very happy customer base.

 

That and, big companies seemingly cannot admit mistakes. Perhaps they do not believe that they have done any mistakes, what do I know. If you played SWG, then you must know of the "New Game Enhacements" fiasco. That was SWG trying to copy wow and just look what it did to their subscription base. However the core elements of SWG were still there, and kudos to everyone who could still find enjoyment in it.

 

At first this tangent may appear to be off-topic, but I think you actually nailed the heart of the problem: as time goes on SWTOR is becoming more and more like warcraft--even to the point of repeating mistakes warcraft made instead of learning from (and avoiding) them.

 

I'd love to see the EA/BW VP that said "Forget fixing the hundreds of bugs that are killing the player experience, let's give them PANDAS--er, I mean--CATHAR! For the HORDE--er, I mean--EMPIRE!"

 

I would bet money that in 12 months the only people playing SWTOR will be the same unemployed, "I have no life" kids (of any age) that have zero social skills, the maturity of a 12 year old (and the education level to match) that plagued and finally took over warcraft like maggots on a rotting corpse.

 

...and then EA will scratch their heads, wonder why they're still losing money & players...

[denpic]

I pvp daily win or lose I have fun why play the game if you're not having fun Edited October 19, 2012 by denpic

[denpic]

***...it's reading comments like these that make me shake my head.

You people who cry for gear/class balance Fail to realize the greatest factor pertaining to the bloody subject!!!!

 

PLAYER SKILL

 

The reasons why gear progression is required, are obvious and yer an idiot to play mmo's and think otherwise.

You want gear balance/class balance?...go play online with ps3 fight night boxing(wait you get some customisable options there as well).

 

As many have stated there is an excitement to pvp. It contains the x-factor that we crave. The ability to use our imaginations to outplay opponents in a Star Wars game is freaking awesome!

 

I've said it before and yes I'll shout it again. Teamwork is OP!

 

One of the ironic scenarios here is that players with instinct, skills and intuition, are the ones who succeed anyways! Gear has Nothing to do with it!!! Man I tell ya, you should be glad swtor doesn't have the fail pvp gear grind mechanics of ageofconan...lmao...anyone who was there will know what I mean.

 

Come on people for crying out loud complaining about "gear based games" is ridiculous. Pay yer dues like everyone else. "skill based gameplay", is merely in front of you. Pick yer class and learn how to work with it. Learn everyone else's. Teamwork is what shines.

Yer failure to grasp these basic principles shall be yer undoing, and will lead to an "unsub".

 

Don't let that happen.

 

 

 

Agree with this guy

[oakamp]

Hear, hear!

 

 

(Well, I wasn't around for pre-1.2, so I can't comment on that, but I agree with the rest. Ideally, though, I'd like every class to be capable of successfully dueling others. (Minus healer matchups, which should be stalemates.)

 

u should back to 1.2 or 1.0, everything is bright until stupid BW ruin it with lousy pvp balance,

but don't worry, with F2P, u can play the bright thing of this game, the STORY, nothing more, nothing less.

[Sweeet]

People need to read this above post. L2P and adapt, nuff said.

 

All I am hearing from this post is "I used to be awesome way back than (Beta tester would have an advantage among new players who were not) but when I returned players are better than me so I will blame the update patching".

 

People stopped enjoying PvP after 1.2 because the TTK was reduced to the point where skilful games turned into a zergfest. People weren't having fun any more, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with "L2P and adapt". If you no longer enjoy something, then you stop doing it, and people did just that. Yet even though the vast majority of people left because of these changes, Bioware stuck by their decisions and now we are going FTP.

 

Bioware and their lack of interaction with their own community are to blame here. They basically said "We know best" - to which the paying customers replied "Oh really? Well then see ya!". Good business practise eh....

[DarkHelsing]

People stopped enjoying PvP after 1.2 because the TTK was reduced to the point where skilful games turned into a zergfest. People weren't having fun any more, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with "L2P and adapt". If you no longer enjoy something, then you stop doing it, and people did just that. Yet even though the vast majority of people left because of these changes, Bioware stuck by their decisions and now we are going FTP.

 

Bioware and their lack of interaction with their own community are to blame here. They basically said "We know best" - to which the paying customers replied "Oh really? Well then see ya!". Good business practise eh....

 

Well put.

[UncleOst]

People stopped enjoying PvP after 1.2 because the TTK was reduced to the point where skilful games turned into a zergfest. People weren't having fun any more, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with "L2P and adapt". If you no longer enjoy something, then you stop doing it, and people did just that. Yet even though the vast majority of people left because of these changes, Bioware stuck by their decisions and now we are going FTP.

 

Bioware and their lack of interaction with their own community are to blame here. They basically said "We know best" - to which the paying customers replied "Oh really? Well then see ya!". Good business practise eh....

 

...you actually claim to have interviewed each player that stopped playing this game? You seem ridiculously certain about the reasons "everyone" has unsubbed...hmm.. That must have been quite an undertaking. What devotion to the game you must have!! lulz.

 

You are hilariously wrong.

 

Take a break from gaming bud. Go get laid.

[UncleOst]

At first this tangent may appear to be off-topic, but I think you actually nailed the heart of the problem: as time goes on SWTOR is becoming more and more like warcraft--even to the point of repeating mistakes warcraft made instead of learning from (and avoiding) them.

 

I'd love to see the EA/BW VP that said "Forget fixing the hundreds of bugs that are killing the player experience, let's give them PANDAS--er, I mean--CATHAR! For the HORDE--er, I mean--EMPIRE!"

 

I would bet money that in 12 months the only people playing SWTOR will be the same unemployed, "I have no life" kids (of any age) that have zero social skills, the maturity of a 12 year old (and the education level to match) that plagued and finally took over warcraft like maggots on a rotting corpse.

 

...and then EA will scratch their heads, wonder why they're still losing money & players...

 

loooool

 

You mad bro? what passion you have!!

 

The sooner fail-wow-kids like you leave swtor, the better.

 

Don't let the door hit yer arse on yer way out.

[Sweeet]

...you actually claim to have interviewed each player that stopped playing this game? You seem ridiculously certain about the reasons "everyone" has unsubbed...hmm.. That must have been quite an undertaking. What devotion to the game you must have!! lulz.

 

You are hilariously wrong.

 

Take a break from gaming bud. Go get laid.

 

The majority of people may not frequent in the forums, but they chat in-game. Our high-pop RP-PvP server degraded to a shell of it's former self after 1.2. I've never seen a community in such an uproar before, the fleet was packed with hundreds of people all complaining about exactly the same thing, the changes to PvP. Guilds were falling apart left and right as people simply stopped playing. And at the same time subscriptions took a nose dive...

 

There was still more than enough PVE content for people to do, if not end-game then levelling other characters. And if you didn't want to solely do the PVE content whilst levelling you would do PvP to fill in the gaps, except people now disliked the PvP...very much. And with so many people quitting, that in itself put a massive downer on things.

 

You're also forgetting how Bioware slashed the commendations and credits gained from doing Warzones in half after 1.2, which further put peoples backs up as it was virtually impossible to to earn a meaningful amount of credits through PvP now, or for casual players to gear up in a reasonable amount of time - which put A LOT of PvP players off too. Our guild with an active 30+ members had barely 5 active members by the time 1.3 was out because of the changes made to PvP, and it was the same story all over the server. Across all servers if you looked at the population trends on torstatus.net.

 

1.2 was incredibly bad for the game, so I don't know what rose tinted glasses you were wearing, or whether you were even playing or paying attention to the numbers declining rapidly after 1.2 hit - but to sit there and claim I am hilariously wrong without backing up your statement as to why I am wrong, is hilarious in its own right.

 

So if I'm so hilariously wrong as you so hilariously put it, what do you think caused well over a million players to quit causing the game to go FTP? Not forgetting how the majority all started quitting after 1.2... As was CLEARLY evident not just by what was happening on my server, but seemingly all servers when looking at the server population trends.

[Faaaate]

I loved this post, BW should look into trying to consult you for ideas (or just look at the community for their patches)