Has anyone suggested having taunts affect enemy healers?

[Powerrmongerr]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't find anything after running a search. Wouldn't this solve multiple problems?

 

1.)It is clear that Bioware do not want tanks dishing out enough damage to actually make enemy healers give a s**t (particularly juggernaut/guardian tanks) about being attacked. Once the annoying cc's of a tank run out, they're basically pestering the healer with a wet noodle.

 

2.)Tanks are supposed to be generating threat, but if healers and their protectors don't care about tank damage output, there's no threat and tanks can't do their jobs.

 

3.)Tanks really don't have much of a place in high end pvp at the moment. Guarding healers, of course, maybe as huttball carriers, maybe as node defenders/support ... but damage is basically king, and tanks don't have it.

 

Wouldn't all of these problems be fixed if, when a tank taunted, the enemy healer's healing output was reduced by 30% (just like how opposing players' damage is reduced by 30%)? Previously uncaring healers and their protectors, I have a strong suspicion, would suddenly be much more concerned about tank "threat." The purpose of tanks in pvp would be accomplished without an increase in damage.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Powerrmongerr

[Cappadin]

Maybe as a talent highh up in the tank trees but it wouldale dps juggs vg/pt assassin dps super op.

[Darth_Philar]

Tanks don't put pressure on enemy healers. Tanks relieve pressure on friendly healers.

Know your job. Do your job. Succeed.

[cycao]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't find anything after running a search. Wouldn't this solve multiple problems?

 

1.)It is clear that Bioware do not want tanks dishing out enough damage to actually make enemy healers give a s**t (particularly juggernaut/guardian tanks) about being attacked. Once the annoying cc's of a tank run out, they're basically pestering the healer with a wet noodle.

You are right, bioware does not want tanks to dish out high damage numbers wile being able to taunt and guard people. Problem is tank jugs/sins can put out pretty amazing damage numbers when someone is playing them right.

2.)Tanks are supposed to be generating threat, but if healers and their protectors don't care about tank damage output, there's no threat and tanks can't do their jobs.

See above.

3.)Tanks really don't have much of a place in high end pvp at the moment. Maybe as huttball carriers, maybe as node defenders/support ... but damage is basically king, and tanks don't have it.

Tanks are needed in every warzone. Not only for the taunts but for guarding healers and squishy dps. I would say one of the most coveted classes for rateds is a KC/darkness hybrid.

Wouldn't all of these problems be fixed if, when a tank taunted, the enemy healer's healing output was reduced by 30% (just like how opposing players' damage is reduced by 30%)? Previously uncaring healers and their protectors, I have a strong suspicion, would suddenly be much more concerned about tank "threat." The purpose of tanks in pvp would be accomplished without an increase in damage.

 

Healing already has a trauma debuff, they do not need another one that a good chunk of players can use as there already is one ability in the game that can apply a healing debuff.

[Powerrmongerr]

Tanks don't put pressure on enemy healers. Tanks relieve pressure on friendly healers.

Know your job. Do your job. Succeed.

 

No class in this game has just one job. Tanks primary job is to guard/protect healers. Protecting nodes, pestering enemy healers, and providing support through the use of cc and taunts are secondary, and legitimate, purposes.

 

Know your job(s). Do your job(s). Succeed using tools available to you.

[Monterone]

As Cyc already said there is currently a permanent taunt on all healers for -30% healing.

 

Are you suggesting an additional taunt allowed for -60% healing, or are you suggesting Trauma be removed and the only healing debuff to come from player taunts?

[af_raptura]

I personally have thought of this exact same suggestion before, but later discarded it. If you read the healer forum, there are a few sentiments along the lines of "Bioware/EA hates healers." They already have the most difficult job in PvP, and the way the game is set up, it doesn't give them as many tools available in other games. And like the previous poster said, they already have the trauma debuff, so I figure lets not make their lives even worse. I sympathize with the healers.

[MagnitudeZero]

Between Mind Snap, Force Wave, Force Stun and Spinning Kick, Shadows can pretty much interrupt 5 consecutive casts, as well as do pretty decent damage. Yeah that's one tank out of three but the only one with which I have experience with.

 

But if you want to go down this route, taunting healers should cause their next heal for the duration of the taunt land on the taunter.

[Metalmac]

Between Mind Snap, Force Wave, Force Stun and Spinning Kick, Shadows can pretty much interrupt 5 consecutive casts, as well as do pretty decent damage. Yeah that's one tank out of three but the only one with which I have experience with.

 

But if you want to go down this route, taunting healers should cause their next heal for the duration of the taunt land on the taunter.

 

Roll a healer and see how hard it is now. You have got to be clueless as to how hard it is to do.

[Xerain]

Yeah that's what taunts need... a mortal strike effect too... because marauders and snipers don't have the ability for healing reduction huh?

[Antipodes]

Did a healer insult you for taunting him?

 

Just wondering because there are a few Vanguards/PTs who obviously macro their taunts to their damage abilities. It's funny getting taunted on cooldown when one is tunneling me

[Doomsdaycomes]

Not sure why you thinks Tanks don't have a place. A good Tank/Healer combo can defend a node against 3-4 attackers, freeing up 6 of their team mates to go wreak havoc somewhere else. As someone else has mentioned, I think you're confused about your role. Your role as a tank in pvp is to block other people, and prevent damage to allies.

 

Ya don't even have to be guarding a healer. Some of the best tanks switch their guards to whomever is being FF'ed.

[vimm]

Yeah that's what taunts need... a mortal strike effect too... because marauders and snipers don't have the ability for healing reduction huh?

 

How's that relevant when neither of those classes have taunts?

[Xerain]

How's that relevant when neither of those classes have taunts?

 

Because deadly throw applies a heal debuff of 20%. Taunt doesn't need to effect healing too. It's powerful enough as it is in PvP.

[vimm]

Because deadly throw applies a heal debuff of 20%. Taunt doesn't need to effect healing too. It's powerful enough as it is in PvP.

 

I mean, it wouldn't be 30% of course.

[Metalmac]

I mean, it wouldn't be 30% of course.

 

Ok so 30% debuff on healing is there before I cast a heal and you want to add 30% more for a 60% debuff?

[Capt_Beers]

You would stop seeing healers in WZ's.

 

Trauma Debuff (30%) > Flourish Shot/Deadly Throw (20%, I don't think these stack but if they do I might as well as quit the WZ) > Taunt (30%) = 80% debuff on healing

 

If you applied that to my Commando who can crit MP for around 5k I would only heal for 1k.

 

It also wouldn't work mechanically. Taunts aren't a universal 30% dmg reduction. If you attack the taunter you maintain your damage. How would that work for a healer? The only way I could see it working is if A) my heals to other teammates were reduced or B) or only heals to myself. either way I can't heal myself at all. Healers would be free kills.

[rob_y]

Between Mind Snap, Force Wave, Force Stun and Spinning Kick, Shadows can pretty much interrupt 5 consecutive casts, as well as do pretty decent damage. Yeah that's one tank out of three but the only one with which I have experience with.

 

A Guardian can Force Kick every 8 seconds, Force Stasis every 60, Force Push every 60, Awe every 45 or 60, maybe hilt strike every 60, and might even have cybertech grenades (mine does). So, yea, tanks generally have an ability to lock up a healer for at least a short time.

[Altheran]

Between Mind Snap, Force Wave, Force Stun and Spinning Kick, Shadows can pretty much interrupt 5 consecutive casts, as well as do pretty decent damage. Yeah that's one tank out of three but the only one with which I have experience with.

 

When I was a tank Shadow (real tank, survivor geared), I did try this on healers when I had the misfortune to meet them 1 on 1... it wasn't enough, at the end of all my "interrupts" the healers had still enough life to cast a heal one more time and then out-heal my damage output (while my heals can't outperform his DPS). A slow but sure defeat.

 

---

 

I support the taunts having an effect on healers too, but I would restrain the effect on heals casted on allies, not for themselves (like the taunts having no affect when attacking the taunter)... or reducing heals received by other players so that it affects all player indepently of player-type. Now what I don't know is the amount of healing decreased... 10% maybe, not more than that.

[Boyana]

 

Wouldn't all of these problems be fixed if, when a tank taunted, the enemy healer's healing output was reduced by 30%.

 

Assuming you already know other classes have a healing debuff and players get "Trauma" healing debuff by engaging into PvP combat, that idea is simply amazing! Amazing, indeed.

[Boyana]

When I was a tank Shadow (real tank, survivor geared), I did try this on healers when I had the misfortune to meet them 1 on 1... it wasn't enough

 

Do you think it should be enough considering healer is usually attacked by more than a one player?

[Trevalion]

You know what cooldown every class SHOULD have? We should all get a detaunt that causes flat damage reduction from the targeted opponent for a few seconds. The detaunt should be single target for most classes, with possibly some specs getting an AOE detaunt deep in their trees (healer classes, or squishy dps maybe). The cooldown should be relatively long, like the stun breaker cooldown.

 

A detaunt would go a long way for allowing more player strategy to deal with incoming burst damage, but would still require skill and timing to use correctly.

 

For those worried about tank/healer or tank/dps combo's with detaunts up... yep, they would have an extra defensive cooldown. On the other hand, so would you.

[SovereignConvict]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't find anything after running a search. Wouldn't this solve multiple problems...

 

Powermongerr, I think this is a brilliant idea!

 

I wonder how many people stopped reading after that sentence? Now, hear what I mean by this... The burden of making a character "less effective" should be the responsibility of "active strategies" by other players.

 

So, interrupting a casting healer? That should be something that another player has to do, just like it currently is in the game. However, much of what both Juggs and Guardians have to do is primarily passive in PvP, and I think having an "active healing taunt" that they could use would really add a lot of gameplay strategy for those Advanced Classes.

 

That being said, two of my characters are healers, and between getting as focused as frequently hard and often as we do, AND the fact that so much and so many of our efforts are "wasted" efforts already (which, they should be, btw), if a mechanic like the one you mentioned was introduced, there would HAVE to be a balancing effort. With our ability to wipe debuffs, we would already have somewhat of a defense against it (assuming the taunt was considered a normal debuff), but we'd still need some kind of "compensation," otherwise, it would negatively impact class balance too much.

 

So, I like your idea, but this is the situation I see:

 

1) Give tanks a healing taunt mechanic + Do Nothing to "buff" Healers = Some Dev Time Invested (DTI) AND Community Discontent AND considerable combat mechanic balancing impacted.

2) Give tanks a healing taunt mechanic + "Buff" Healers = Lots of DTI and at least some Community Discontent and a huge amount of combat mechanic balancing impacted.

3) Do nothing = No Dev time required, no appreciable difference in Community Contentment and no combat mechanic balance changes.

 

So yeah... I love the idea because I too, feel that tanks are not as participatory in PvP as they could/should be, but I just don't think it's in the cards.

[UGLYMRJ]

It's been suggested and it's for the most part agreed to be a bad idea.

 

This already exists in a form and it's called trauma.

[Altheran]

Do you think it should be enough considering healer is usually attacked by more than a one player?

 

Consider also that you must have all your CC up and that rarely occurs when fighting multiple players. But yes if you have all of them it can be sufficient. It's also why in the second part of my post I suggest the healing debuff would not exceed 10% and would only occur when the healer doesn't heal himself but a mate.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Altheran