Respect Revan

[Rayla_Felana]

If he was indeed using Tutaminis, then I don't know why it would be "unimpressive." To me this says that his knowledge of was considerable to pull such a thing off. If you go to the wikia, then you'll notice that the only Tutaminis practitioners are the really powerfull guys. It seems that this is indeed an impressive ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly wouldn't say it isn't impressive.

 

Besides, I thought that you (and Aurbere) were of the impression that Revan was "One with the force during this scene." Just curious. Actually, I would like to discuss with you why you think that Revan was one with the force at this point.

 

I'm not saying Tutaminis isn't impressive, I'm saying the way he killed her doesn't outright make him more powerful.

 

And you are mixing up fights, this is Darth Nyriss not the Emperor.

[MasterMe]

I'm not saying Tutaminis isn't impressive, I'm saying the way he killed her doesn't outright make him more powerful.

 

And you are mixing up fights, this is Darth Nyriss not the Emperor.

 

You're are right. This doesn't make Revan "outright" more poweful. But it does indicate that Revan is LIKELY a more powerful man.

 

Huhhh???? You guys have been saying that you thought that Revan was one with the force during his fight with Vitiate? I'm confused. What lead you to that conclusion?

[BrandonSM]

"Once judged by the council, she realised how wrong she had been in following the old Jedi's ways with such zealousness, for they themselves were no longer the true Jedi, they lacked understanding and were filled with fear, but she knew the Jedi Code was still true and her belief in the Light Side were all she truly needed.

 

The Exile felt a deeper understanding of herself and the Force, even with the Sith whispering things in her ear, she no longer felt confusion or fear of recent events, only strength and conviction in what the Jedi once stood for."

 

"The Exile had achieved Force Enlightenment, something many Jedi never amount to, it was the total understanding of the self and that person's purpose in the force, the end result was an "Enlightened" Jedi, having unlocked and harnessed fully the Light Side of the Force.

 

This power she used in the face of Nihilus whom normally struck Force Users with fear, freezing them, but her new found resilience and belief allowed her to stand and face him without doubt, she later opened herself to this new found power at the Trayus Academy, allowing the will of the Force itself to guide her in open combat against the Dark Jedi and their Masters."

 

The Knights of the Old Republic Sourcebook.

 

I think saying Mastering it is too much of an exaggeration.

 

I agree with Aurbere, its more of a High Understanding of the Light-Side versus achieving Mastery of the Light-Side. Because, to me, Mastery seems like you can use all of the Light-Side Abilities and be the most powerful at those abilities.

[Rayla_Felana]

You're are right. This doesn't make Revan "outright" more poweful. But it does indicate that Revan is LIKELY a more powerful man.

 

Huhhh???? You guys have been saying that you thought that Revan was one with the force during his fight with Vitiate? I'm confused. What lead you to that conclusion?

 

It speaks more certainly of Nyriss' inability to control large amounts of power when she unleashes them.

 

Yes he was, but this is not that battle, this is the battle they had with Darth Nyriss where he used Tutaminis to deflect her power back at her.

 

And I already explained earlier in the thread why Revan achieved oneness with the force, because using both sides of the force is impossible, so we come to the next most likely conclusion, due to the fact it's description is almost exactly like Jacen Solo's oneness event, we have to assume that's what it is.

[Rayla_Felana]

I think saying Mastering it is too much of an exaggeration.

 

I agree with Aurbere, its more of a High Understanding of the Light-Side versus achieving Mastery of the Light-Side. Because, to me, Mastery seems like you can use all of the Light-Side Abilities and be the most powerful at those abilities.

 

That's exactly what she could do though, she unlocked and harnessed fully the light side of the force, that's what enlightenment is, the full use of the Light Side, she knew the most powerful jedi technique ever, Sever Force, she only regained this natural talent at Malachor V, after her Enlightenment, it simply makes sense to me.

 

And I can't agree with this, only PT and NJO Jedi/Sith could master sides.

 

Darth Malgus was one with the Dark Side.

 

Satele Shan achieved oneness with the Light Side.

 

Jedi Masters like Vodo-Siosk Baas and Odan-Urr knew mastery over the Light.

 

Darth Bane felt that he had achieved mastery over the Dark Side.

 

Then the Exile, where we have someone Enlightened of the Force who is literally described as having unlockd fully the power of the Light, it's pretty much exactly the same description given to these others.

[MasterMe]

It speaks more certainly of Nyriss' inability to control large amounts of power when she unleashes them.

 

Yes he was, but this is not that battle, this is the battle they had with Darth Nyriss where he used Tutaminis to deflect her power back at her.

 

And I already explained earlier in the thread why Revan achieved oneness with the force, because using both sides of the force is impossible, so we come to the next most likely conclusion, due to the fact it's description is almost exactly like Jacen Solo's oneness event, we have to assume that's what it is.

 

You could be right about the whole oneness thing. But you're wrong to say that we "have" to assume that he became one with the force.

 

For arguments sake, let's say that Revan did this achieve this oneness with the force. Wouldn't this indicate that Revan had a very great understanding of the force? Surely there haven't been many people who've been able to pull this sort of thing off. I feel like if he did indeed become one with the force momentarily, then that means that his understanding of the force was remarkable. Wouldn't you say so?

[Rayla_Felana]

You could be right about the whole oneness thing. But you're wrong to say that we "have" to assume that he became one with the force.

 

For arguments sake, let's say that Revan did this achieve this oneness with the force. Wouldn't this indicate that Revan had a very great understanding of the force? Surely there haven't been many people who've been able to pull this sort of thing off. I feel like if he did indeed become one with the force momentarily, then that means that his understanding of the force was remarkable. Wouldn't you say so?

 

The problem is, it's what we call the POTM(Power of the Month) which is basically when someone comes up with one power and then a ton of other authors stick that on their favourite character.

 

For example, both Darth Malgus and Satele Shan achieved something similar, so did pretty much every Skywalker and Darth Bane, that's kind of the problem now, a power that's meant to be super rare and unique, ends up just being another weapon in the arsenal, if you know what I mean.

 

But yes it does speak of Revan's ability to understand the force, especially when he used it in such a one-hit way, it's probably his best display of power.

[Aurbere]

You could be right about the whole oneness thing. But you're wrong to say that we "have" to assume that he became one with the force.

 

For arguments sake, let's say that Revan did this achieve this oneness with the force. Wouldn't this indicate that Revan had a very great understanding of the force? Surely there haven't been many people who've been able to pull this sort of thing off. I feel like if he did indeed become one with the force momentarily, then that means that his understanding of the force was remarkable. Wouldn't you say so?

 

To my recollection, Oneness has been only a one-time thing. It's not something you can just do as in 'oh I'm losing! Time to go Oneness!'. I don't think anyone has pulled it off more than once. I don't think even Luke Skywalker has pulled it off more than once. That is to my recollection of course.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Aurbere

[Selenial]

1.He was a big fish in a small pond.

 

2.He got all of his tactics from the mandalorians and the Sith way of doing things, he used his number of Jedi and greater army of troops to overwhelm them, not all that impressive when you really consider it.

 

3.You said it yourself, he was retrained into the Light Side, his new identity, the old one still had all of his previous power, Kreia also said the Exile was her greatest student and all modern day Jedi are nothing compared to the ancients, Jolee Bindo also stated that Revan and Malak were basically Sith wannabes compared to Exar Kun and Ulic-Qel Droma.

 

4.It's against G-canon, get to grips with that and move on, Drew's attempts to make his baby the next best thing to the Chosen One failed, he can't beat Lucas or Chee, simple, hence we know that he achieved oneness with the force, due to the description being pretty much exactly the same to the description gave for when Jacen Solo achieved oneness with the force.

 

Now what does Revan have that poses a significant threat to Vader, Bane or Kun? exactly, what does Vader, Bane and Kun have that would pose a serious threat to Revan? a hell of a lot.

 

Your the biggest revan basher on the forums, but most of the things you say are right

[Rayla_Felana]

Your the biggest revan basher on the forums, but most of the things you say are right

 

I actually really like Revan, MY Revan, not what the character became, problem is, a lot of his 'Revanites' attempt to make him out to be something he is not, I do exactly the opposite, I purposefully underhype what he has done for the sole purpose of showing everyone a completely different view point of what he has done, so as to stop the growth of this big 'Revan is beast' shtick that goes around on the forums.

 

Like him all you* want, but don't come into threads(I'm not referring to this one) and spew on about how great he is, this isn't about who you like best, it's about what they actually achieved, hence the purpose of canon facts, not hyperbole.

 

*I mean 'you' as a collective noun, not you personally.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Aurbere]

I actually really like Revan, MY Revan, not what the character became, problem is, a lot of his 'Revanites' attempt to make him out to be something he is not, I do exactly the opposite, I purposefully underhype what he has done for the sole purpose of showing everyone a completely different view point of what he has done, so as to stop the growth of this big 'Revan is beast' shtick that goes around on the forums.

 

Like him all you* want, but don't come into threads(I'm not referring to this one) and spew on about how great he is, this isn't about who you like best, it's about what they actually achieved, hence the purpose of canon facts, not hyperbole.

 

*I mean 'you' as a collective noun, not you personally.

 

That's exactly how I am too. It pains me to see some people hype him up to be something that he is not. Especially when it comes to a discussion on canon facts. What they do is ignore every piece of canon against Revan and supplement Revan with fabricated pieces of evidence and stretch the truth out so much that it turns into a lie.

 

The real Revan would be shamed.

 

EDIT: Maybe not. After what he was saying on the Foundry I'd say he would believe it too. Very arrogant he was.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Aurbere

[ProsaicProse]

One thing I sort of found amusing about this debate is how often people bring up the Foundry fight as some sort of measure of Revan's power (or lack of), then neglect to also bring up it was a 4 on 1 fight. It took 4 players at the prime of their power to defeat him - he's 1 guy.

[Aurbere]

One thing I sort of found amusing about this debate is how often people bring up the Foundry fight as some sort of measure of Revan's power (or lack of), then neglect to also bring up it was a 4 on 1 fight. It took 4 players at the prime of their power to defeat him - he's 1 guy.

 

Actually they were not at their prime. Story-wise, Nox at the end would dominate Nox at Revan fight. The flashpoints run parallel to the main story so shortly after Chapter 1 the four Imperials go to the Foundry. This means that the four classes were not in their prime. Their prime is at the end of Chapter 3. This means that the Warrior can beat DC members and Nox has some 4 ghosts empowering him. Nox alone would beat Revan with ease.

 

EDIT: What you don't understand is that it is not a level thing. It is a timeline thing. The Wrath could beat Revan in a good fight, but Nox is on a whole different level. Nox's ghosts give him an immense power plus his own growing power, Revan is no match.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Aurbere

[Rayla_Felana]

One thing I sort of found amusing about this debate is how often people bring up the Foundry fight as some sort of measure of Revan's power (or lack of), then neglect to also bring up it was a 4 on 1 fight. It took 4 players at the prime of their power to defeat him - he's 1 guy.

 

Prime of their power? it's a flashpoint where the Sith are only just Lords, the Imp is still an Agent and the Bounty Hunter is not yet the Pub's most wanted.

 

I think you are confusing it with the False Emperor, where it took the four of them at their height of power to bring him* down.

 

*

Darth Malgus.

[ProsaicProse]

He's not tough enough? Then go do it on hardmode!

[Rayla_Felana]

He's not tough enough? Then go do it on hardmode!

 

We aren't talking about difficulty or level, but the Foundry flashpoint happens when the first chapter ends for the Imps.

[Sir-Coffee]

We aren't talking about difficulty or level, but the Foundry flashpoint happens when the first chapter ends for the Imps.

 

True, but

Revan didn't die

 

 

They will most likely bring him back and I guarantee he will be stronger.

 

I mean,

look at HK-47, he was level 30-something(Maybe level 37?? I forgot) in the foundry and level (50??) in The False Emperor.

 

Edited October 14, 2012 by SithEBM

[Aurbere]

True, but

Revan didn't die

 

 

They will most likely bring him back and I guarantee he will be stronger.

 

I mean,

look at HK-47, he was level 30-something(Maybe level 37?? I forgot) in the foundry and level (50??) in The False Emperor.

 

And then with the story expansion, the imperials and pubs will get even stronger. Outclassing him yet again.

[ProsaicProse]

That's the problem with arguments like these - anyone can cherry pick game mechanics and story elements when it's convenient, because such debates are subjective and open to interpretation.

[Emperor-Norton]

The Emperor has never been seen killing multiple Dark Council members, he sent his Imperial Guard out in the novel to take them all out, they were enhanced because of their link to Vitiate and those members didn't have a clue what was happening, it was basically their own version of Order 66.

That is half true. He sent out the Imperial Guard to kill 3 members of the Council, while he summoned the rest to the Citadel and (it was assumed that) he personally killed all of them there.

[Aurbere]

That's the problem with arguments like these - anyone can cherry pick game mechanics and story elements when it's convenient, because such debates are subjective and open to interpretation.

 

I don't 'cherry-pick' anything. I use any and all facts to back up my argument. It's not gameplay mechanics it is story timeline. And in the timeline, endgame Sith and Jedi beat Revan with relative ease. These are the facts son.

[Rayla_Felana]

That's the problem with arguments like these - anyone can cherry pick game mechanics and story elements when it's convenient, because such debates are subjective and open to interpretation.

 

No, actually think about the sequence of flashpoints, if Foundry HM(Basically end of chapter 3) was canon then that would mean ALL of those flashpoints would have happened back to back which is simply not true at all, I'm going spoilerish now but if what you say is true, then the False Emperor flashpoints big surprise is non-canon, because you find out Darth Malgus has been using you all to build his own powerbase, he takes the Foundry and spends MONTHS after Revan is 'dead' rebuilding it to full efficiency, THEN False Emperor happens, pay attention and you'll realise, the pace at which you unlock the FPs is canonically correct to the timeline of your class story, Foundry happens at the end of Chapter 1, False Emperor happens at the end of Chapter 3.

[ProsaicProse]

Yea, but if you follow most of the story lines in the Star Wars universe, you'll notice various characters, even ones widely considered to be super powerful, go through their victories and defeats.

 

I don't think anyone outside of the story writers themselves have that market covered, so when I hear players going on about "fact" and "canon", I think they are off base.

Edited October 14, 2012 by ProsaicProse

[Rayla_Felana]

That is half true. He sent out the Imperial Guard to kill 3 members of the Council, while he summoned the rest to the Citadel and (it was assumed that) he personally killed all of them there.

 

Exactly, that was my point, we have no idea whether or not he killed them personally or the Imperial Guard also slaughtered them whilst locked in his tower.

 

A lot of people assumed Darth Maul was dead when he got cut in half and fell down the melting shaft, we know that isn't true anymore.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Rayla_Felana]

Yea, but if you follow most of the story lines in the Star Wars universe, you'll notice various characters, even ones widely considered to be super powerful, go through their victories and defeats.

 

I don't think anyone outside of the story writers themselves have that market covered, so when I hear players going on about "fact" and "canon", I think they are off base.

 

Of course they do, but we take what is factually written in the story itself and go with it, considering it is stated repeatedly, we know as a matter of fact that the Foundry happened at the end of Chapter 1, end of story.