Respect Revan

[Lord_Karsk]

I'm a big fan of Revan, but i do understand the basic facts in the star wars universe when it comes to the force and

lighsaber combat, and like it or not Anakin/Vader would wipe the floor with them all.Vader was a greater dualist then both Yoda and Sidious and anyone before him, no one else could fight 12 master jedi at the same time in the temple

and his force powers were beyond anyone else but that of Sidious and Yoda.Only reason as we know he lost on Mustafar was that he was conflicted about what he did to Padme and the fact Obi Wan knew his way of fighting

better then anyone else.

 

Not to mention characters like Horn and Caedus and Jaina etc in the new republic era become more powerful then

what most character were in all the old republic era.And plis people, Bane was not a great dualist or wery powerful

in any way, all he did was reform the Sith.Same with Kun, strong in the force but not a great dualist, his form VI was no match against other forms.

 

But anyways yes respect Revan yes because he is one of the best characters ever created.

[Ismercu]

He's the only reason Kotor series became popular and any reason why Swtor was made. So yeah the only character in the saga i respect at all lol.

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm a big fan of Revan, but i do understand the basic facts in the star wars universe when it comes to the force and

lighsaber combat, and like it or not Anakin/Vader would wipe the floor with them all.Vader was a greater dualist then both Yoda and Sidious and anyone before him, no one else could fight 12 master jedi at the same time in the temple

and his force powers were beyond anyone else but that of Sidious and Yoda.Only reason as we know he lost on Mustafar was that he was conflicted about what he did to Padme and the fact Obi Wan knew his way of fighting

better then anyone else.

 

Not to mention characters like Horn and Caedus and Jaina etc in the new republic era become more powerful then

what most character were in all the old republic era.And plis people, Bane was not a great dualist or wery powerful

in any way, all he did was reform the Sith.Same with Kun, strong in the force but not a great dualist, his form VI was no match against other forms.

 

But anyways yes respect Revan yes because he is one of the best characters ever created.

 

Darth Bane and Exar Kun weren't great duellists? lul what? Darth Bane wasn't very powerful? *sigh*

 

Oh and when did Vader face 12 Jedi Masters? he faced eight Masters and Knights on Kessel and killed off a few, but eventually they wore him down and probably would've killed him if the 501st hadn't interfered and saved Vader.

 

Vader was most certainly not a better duellist than either Sidious or Yoda, or Windu for that matter, he came close but he wouldn't beat any of them in their primes.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Lord_Karsk]

Darth Bane and Exar Kun weren't great duellists? lul what? Darth Bane wasn't very powerful? *sigh*

 

Oh and when did Vader face 12 Jedi Masters? he faced eight Masters and Knights on Kessel and killed off a few, but eventually they wore him down and probably would've killed him if the 501st hadn't interfered and saved Vader.

 

Vader was most certainly not a better duellist than either Sidious or Yoda, or Windu for that matter, he came close but he wouldn't beat any of them in their primes.

 

This is whaat i mean, people who need to learn more about star wars ......

 

Some of us when the movies came out and were made followed the game wery close.

Like me i got all the star wars insider magazines were they talked about those things,they even

shot those fights but lucas dident include them in the movies, just like Vaders fight against cin drallig the lightsaber instructor in the temple.Things said in magazines like Empire etc at the time, plenty of info and interviews with lucas etc etc.Bte you can see some of it in the hologram fight when obi wan and yoda arives later

the guy to the right in the hologram fighting vader in cin drallig.

[Rayla_Felana]

This is whaat i mean, people who need to learn more about star wars ......

 

Some of us when the movies came out and were made followed the game wery close.

Like me i got all the star wars insider magazines were they talked about those things,they even

shot those fights but lucas dident include them in the movies, just like Vaders fight against cin drallig the lightsaber instructor in the temple.Things said in magazines like Empire etc at the time, plenty of info and interviews with lucas etc etc.Bte you can see some of it in the hologram fight when obi wan and yoda arives later

the guy to the right in the hologram fighting vader in cin drallig.

 

Sounds like you need to go and read the Revenge of the Sith novel, run along now.

 

Cin Drallig did face Vader once he saw Keto get cut down, he duelled Vader for a short moment before retreating to the Room of a thousand fountains, where Vader killed padawans Bene and Whie then he overwhelmed and cut Drallig down shortly after hacking at his shoulder, then the 501st shot down the rest.

 

That is the official battle.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Lord_Karsk]

Sounds like you need to go and read the Revenge of the Sith novel, run along now.

 

Cin Drallig did face Vader once he saw Keto get cut down, he duelled Vader for a short moment before retreating to the Room of a thousand fountains, where Vader killed padawans Bene and Whie then he overwhelmed and cut Drallig down shortly after hacking at his shoulder, then the 501st shot down the rest.

 

That is the official battle.

 

I have the novel thank you.

[Lord_Karsk]

During production of revenge of the sith it was leaked from the set that Vader would

fight multiple jedi while using 3 lighsabers at onse,always have one in the air while having two in his hands

When the third would fling back he would throw one of the sabers in his hand so he could catch the third one.

As i said this was only something that may have happen on the set.Anyways point is Anaking by the time of episode 3

was a far superior dualist then anyone else.And Sidious when asking Anakin, are you going to kill me ?

i'm pretty sure he knew very well he would not stand a chance against him

Edited October 11, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Rayla_Felana]

During production of revenge of the sith it was leaked from the set that Vader would

fight multiple jedi while using 3 lighsabers at onse,always have one in the air while having two in his hands

When the third would fling back he would throw one of the sabers in his hand so he could catch the third one.

As i said this was only something that may have happen on the set.Anyways point is Anaking by the time of episode 3

was a far superior dualist then anyone else.And Sidious when asking Anakin, are you going to kill me ?

i'm pretty sure he knew very well he would not stand a chance against him

 

It doesn't matter what could have been, it matters what did, Sidious would school Anakin just the same as Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto, Windu only survived through Vaapad and Yoda vs Sidious was no true duel, Vader couldn't even defeat Obi-Wan, now that's no offence to Master Kenobi's skills but he is just not on the level of Sidious, Yoda and Windu.

[MasterMe]

I'm a big fan of Revan, but i do understand the basic facts in the star wars universe when it comes to the force and

lighsaber combat, and like it or not Anakin/Vader would wipe the floor with them all.Vader was a greater dualist then both Yoda and Sidious and anyone before him, no one else could fight 12 master jedi at the same time in the temple

and his force powers were beyond anyone else but that of Sidious and Yoda.Only reason as we know he lost on Mustafar was that he was conflicted about what he did to Padme and the fact Obi Wan knew his way of fighting

better then anyone else.

 

Not to mention characters like Horn and Caedus and Jaina etc in the new republic era become more powerful then

what most character were in all the old republic era.And plis people, Bane was not a great dualist or wery powerful

in any way, all he did was reform the Sith.Same with Kun, strong in the force but not a great dualist, his form VI was no match against other forms.

 

But anyways yes respect Revan yes because he is one of the best characters ever created.

 

It's good to see a Revan fan out here.

 

But I certainly wouldn't detract from the dueling skills of guys like Bane and Kun, epecially Bane.

 

Now when it comes to Vader, you've got to remember that yes he is very powerful, but I'm pretty sure that it's canon that he's not quite at the level of Sidious or Yoda, or even Mace Windu perhaps. This is due to the fact that he made a stupid move against Obi-wan (who is no slouch at all), and got his limbs hacked off. If this hadn't happened, then he would definately be better then the likes of Yoda, Sidious, and Mace Windu. But this isn't the case.

[MasterMe]

It doesn't matter what could have been, it matters what did, Sidious would school Anakin just the same as Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto, Windu only survived through Vaapad and Yoda vs Sidious was no true duel, Vader couldn't even defeat Obi-Wan, now that's no offence to Master Kenobi's skills but he is just not on the level of Sidious, Yoda and Windu.

 

I think Obi-wan is actually pretty darn close if not at Mace's level. Maybe not, I'm just thinking out loud here.

[RDeanOU]

Love is a double edged sword. It can save you, but also condemn you. The Jedi 'fear' the latter. Powerful emotions lead to the Dark Side, but love is a special case. It can not only save people, but also destroy lives. This is shown perfectly in episodes 3 and 6. Love destroyed Anakin, but later saved Darth Vader. But it's a special kind of love. Jedi understand that emotions like love can hinder rational thinking, the thinking required to save lives. We saw Anakin put the needs of his wife before the needs of others. A Jedi can't do that. A Jedi must do what is right for the many, not what is right for those they love.

 

The Council understands this, but they do not forbid emotion entirely. Many Jedi have emotion. Emotions like happiness and sadness are natural emotions that Jedi feel on a regular basis. Even Master Yoda feels emotion. It isn't emotion that the Jedi forbid, it is emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Fear, anger and love. Fear and anger for obvious reasons, but love is differen as I have detailed in the previous paragraph.

 

It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

 

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.

[Lord_Karsk]

I think Obi-wan is actually pretty darn close if not at Mace's level. Maybe not, I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

In the second move Anakin say Obi wan is as strong as Mace and wise as Yoda.

Also in episode II Anakin belives he is as good dualist as Yoda, of course this is wrong as proven in the end.

But at the time of episode III Anakin is far beyond all others in lightsaber combat.Something he proves when he kills

lord Tyranus(Dooku) one of the greatest dualist the order have ever seen.And Sidious was never a great dualist but more of a powerful force user.

 

Revan was also a great lightsaber dualist but not as powerful as Vitiate,but saber combat and beeing poweful in the force goes hand in hand even if your enemy is stronger in the force.A great dualist in close combat will winn always uless beeing far weaker in the force. Something proven in the end of Reva novel, Vitiate was more powerful, but he did understand that if Revan came to close Revan would kill him. Basic logic in the star wars universe.Same with Anakin in epi III, he was not yet as powerful as Yoda or Sidious but in combat they would not have been able to deafeat him.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[MasterMe]

It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

 

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.

 

Bullseye! Love only indirectly leads to the dark side, and that's only when you handle it poorly.

[Lord_Karsk]

It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

 

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.

 

Very true, love is one of the strongest side of the light side. This is why the new jedi order under luke is better and more powerful.The old ways of forbidding love what was destroyed the jedi order.And the force wanted the old ways to be destroyed so the order could be reborn with Luke Skywalker.

[MasterMe]

In the second move Anaking say Obi wan is as strong as Mace and wise as Yoda.

Also in episode II Anaking belives he is as good dualist as Yoda, of course this is wrong as proven in the end.

But at the time of episode III Anakin is far beyond all others in lightsaber combat.So9mething he proves when he kills

lors Tyranus(Dooku) one of the greatest dualist the order have ever seen.And Sidious was never a great dualist but more of a powerful force user.

 

Revan was also a great lightsaber dualist but not as powerful as Vitiate,but saber combat and beeing poweful in the force goes hand in hand even if your enemy is stronger in the force.A great dualist in close combat will winn always uless beeing far weaker in the force. Something proven in the end of Reva novel, Vitiate was more powerful, but he did understand that if Revan came to close Revan would kill him. Basic logic in the star wars universe.Same with Anakin in epi III, he was not yet as powerful as Yoda or Sidious but in combat they would not have been able to deafeat him.

 

Ah, and to revisit Revan's dueling capablilities (according to Wookieepedia) here's somethin I found:

 

1. He's the greatest Duelist of his time (in fact the greatest Jedi of his time as well). People say that this is insignificant but I disagree. There were plenty of great duelists of Revan's time. Vandar Tokare mastered the Ataru Jar'kai variant, and Vrook Lamar mastered 4 lightsaber forms! Need I mention the Exile? Revan had a decent amout of competition, so to be the best duelist of his time is something to be considered.

[Temeluchus]

Ah, and to revisit Revan's dueling capablilities (according to Wookieepedia) here's somethin I found:

 

1. He's the greatest Duelist of his time (in fact the greatest Jedi of his time as well). People say that this is insignificant but I disagree. There were plenty of great duelists of Revan's time. Vandar Tokare mastered the Ataru Jar'kai variant, and Vrook Lamar mastered 4 lightsaber forms! Need I mention the Exile? Revan had a decent amout of competition, so to be the best duelist of his time is something to be considered.

 

Wookieepedia is a nice site for basic information or finding out information on obscure SWU facts,books,comics out there but I wouldn't take what it says,word for word, as gospel. Sometimes the information within an entry is flat out wrong or made up.(SEE: Darth Malgus;

escaping to the Unknown Regions after the False Emperor

if you have any doubts about blatant incorrect or made up parts to an entry)

 

Remember its a wiki page and can be edited by practically anyone as well as the initial entry sometimes being heavily influenced or biased by the author of the entry's perception of the character/events. For example, if you and I both wrote Revan pages for Wookieepedia, the facts would remain the same but the pages would look vastly different from each other.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Aurbere]

It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

 

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.

 

That's exactly why the Jedi discourage love. Yes, I agree that it is dumb but I'm talking from their point of view. Love indirectly leads to the Dark Side by causing emotions that can lead to it. Love can cause certain emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Emotions like fear, anger, etc. Love itself is a good thing, but many do not see the big picture like the Jedi do. The Jedi understand that love itself is a good emotion, but what it can lead to can be very bad.

 

That's the point I'm trying to make. I understand why they take that stance, but part of me disagrees with it.

[TalonVII]

That's exactly why the Jedi discourage love. Yes, I agree that it is dumb but I'm talking from their point of view. Love indirectly leads to the Dark Side by causing emotions that can lead to it. Love can cause certain emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Emotions like fear, anger, etc. Love itself is a good thing, but many do not see the big picture like the Jedi do. The Jedi understand that love itself is a good emotion, but what it can lead to can be very bad.

 

That's the point I'm trying to make. I understand why they take that stance, but part of me disagrees with it.

 

Why do you think Luke Skywalker allows his jedi to love, but teaches them how to DEAL with that love.

 

That was the fatal flaw with old republic jedi. They merely just shut down a large part of themselves because they were AFRAID of what could happen. And guess what FEAR is of the darkside of "Humanity" since i can't find a word for multiple races.

 

The Force itself isn't light and dark, it simply is. Light and Dark resides in the BEING. What the Jedi should of done is teach how to deal with emotions like love. They should of taught better JUDGEMENT and self control. Not just "Don't love, it goes to the dark side!" It should of been "Love. It is something that CAN lead to the darkside, but it can lead to so much more. One must guard themselves from what love can draw you down the dark road. But to love, that can redeem a person, save one's life and soul."

 

Something along those lines. Jedi should of been able to love, have children and such. And the fact they went around just snatching force sensitive children and forcing them to become Jedi never sat well with me. I feel that they should of been asked when they could understand as a child, much like Anakin was at that young of an age, not just taken as an infant and raised inside of the order without knowing a mother's love and sure as hell allow them to to atleast CONTACT their family from time to time. There were so many emotions that are good, and a mother can be that steadying influence that a child needs to stay on the correct path.

 

Yeah...there were many things that were wrong with the jedi of old that I had issue with.

[MasterMe]

Wookieepedia is a nice site for basic information or finding out information on obscure SWU facts,books,comics out there but I wouldn't take what it says,word for word, as gospel. Sometimes the information within an entry is flat out wrong or made up.(SEE: Darth Malgus;

escaping to the Unknown Regions after the False Emperor

if you have any doubts about blatant incorrect or made up parts to an entry)

 

Remember its a wiki page and can be edited by practically anyone as well as the initial entry sometimes being heavily influenced or biased by the author of the entry's perception of the character/events. For example, if you and I both wrote Revan pages for Wookieepedia, the facts would remain the same but the pages would look vastly different from each other.

 

You're right, I can't accept a wikia as absolute fact. But unless it sounds ridiculous then I feel I can generally rely on it.

 

Oh, and the Jedi Masters I named weren't even on the Jedi High Council. so we can assume the men on the Jedi High Council were even better then those of Tokare and Lamar. Just saying.

[MasterMe]

Why do you think Luke Skywalker allows his jedi to love, but teaches them how to DEAL with that love.

 

That was the fatal flaw with old republic jedi. They merely just shut down a large part of themselves because they were AFRAID of what could happen. And guess what FEAR is of the darkside of "Humanity" since i can't find a word for multiple races.

 

The Force itself isn't light and dark, it simply is. Light and Dark resides in the BEING. What the Jedi should of done is teach how to deal with emotions like love. They should of taught better JUDGEMENT and self control. Not just "Don't love, it goes to the dark side!" It should of been "Love. It is something that CAN lead to the darkside, but it can lead to so much more. One must guard themselves from what love can draw you down the dark road. But to love, that can redeem a person, save one's life and soul."

 

Something along those lines. Jedi should of been able to love, have children and such. And the fact they went around just snatching force sensitive children and forcing them to become Jedi never sat well with me. I feel that they should of been asked when they could understand as a child, much like Anakin was at that young of an age, not just taken as an infant and raised inside of the order without knowing a mother's love and sure as hell allow them to to atleast CONTACT their family from time to time. There were so many emotions that are good, and a mother can be that steadying influence that a child needs to stay on the correct path.

 

Yeah...there were many things that were wrong with the jedi of old that I had issue with.

 

I'd just like to point out that Revan did love, and thus, wasn't "weakened" by the Jedi Code like the OR Jedi you mentioned. If what you say is true, then Revan is similar (when it comes to force philosophy) to the NJO Jedi.

[SoonerJBD]

That's exactly why the Jedi discourage love. Yes, I agree that it is dumb but I'm talking from their point of view. Love indirectly leads to the Dark Side by causing emotions that can lead to it. Love can cause certain emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Emotions like fear, anger, etc. Love itself is a good thing, but many do not see the big picture like the Jedi do. The Jedi understand that love itself is a good emotion, but what it can lead to can be very bad.

 

That's the point I'm trying to make. I understand why they take that stance, but part of me disagrees with it.

 

It's not a matter of disagreeing. The policy was wrong. It was proven wrong by the movies which is why the post-ROTJ Jedi Order did not continue the policy.

 

The idea that love leads, even indirectly, to the dark side led to the near destruction of the Jedi, Anakin's fall and Palpatine's rise to power. The rejection of that idea led to Anakin's redemption, Palpatine's defeat and saved the galaxy from the dark side.

 

The no attachments policy was demonstrably proven incorrect.

 

I brought this up after people made comments that emotion is not part of the light side and that love leads to the dark side. Those statements are provably false.

[MasterMe]

It's not a matter of disagreeing. The policy was wrong. It was proven wrong by the movies which is why the post-ROTJ Jedi Order did not continue the policy.

 

The idea that love leads, even indirectly, to the dark side led to the near destruction of the Jedi, Anakin's fall and Palpatine's rise to power. The rejection of that idea led to Anakin's redemption, Palpatine's defeat and saved the galaxy from the dark side.

 

The no attachments policy was demonstrably proven incorrect.

 

I brought this up after people made comments that emotion is not part of the light side and that love leads to the dark side. Those statements are provably false.

 

False? Really? Controled love may be part of the lightside, but it wasn't part of what the prequel Jedi believed nor what the OR Jedi believed. That's canon. Uncontroled emotions, of any kind, are dangerous. All Jedi believe that. However the NJO believes that controlled love and compassion are good things and important to a Jedi. And yes, Love CAN lead to the darkside. Love is a good think, but you can't allow it to displace your judgement, which it can, even here in the real world.

 

You're right that the no attachment policy was proven wrong, but regardless, that's what the Jedi of old believed. And they were partially right because it does and has lead men to the darkside.

[Aurbere]

Love is a topic we can talk in circles. My position on it? I agree and disagree with the Jedi on their stance. The Jedi Order understood that love, while good at times, can and most likely will lead to uncontrollable emotions. Love can also hinder rational thinking. Look at Luke Skywalker. When he found out Mara Jade had died, he was flooded with emotion. Emotion that clouded his judgment and it prevented him from seeing the truth. On this part I agree with the Jedi.

 

What I disagree with is that the Jedi do not teach their students how to control these emotions. Well I can't say that. They do teach their students how to control these emotions, but they don't lay out the consequences correctly. But there is really no way to prevent the loss of a loved one from impacting you emotionally. I believe that is what the Jedi try to avoid.

 

Like I said, this discussion could go on for eternity. We've all made our point so we should just move on.

[MasterMe]

Love is a topic we can talk in circles. My position on it? I agree and disagree with the Jedi on their stance. The Jedi Order understood that love, while good at times, can and most likely will lead to uncontrollable emotions. Love can also hinder rational thinking. Look at Luke Skywalker. When he found out Mara Jade had died, he was flooded with emotion. Emotion that clouded his judgment and it prevented him from seeing the truth. On this part I agree with the Jedi.

 

What I disagree with is that the Jedi do not teach their students how to control these emotions. Well I can't say that. They do teach their students how to control these emotions, but they don't lay out the consequences correctly. But there is really no way to prevent the loss of a loved one from impacting you emotionally. I believe that is what the Jedi try to avoid.

 

Like I said, this discussion could go on for eternity. We've all made our point so we should just move on.

 

Yes, let's move on.

[RDeanOU]

Love is a topic we can talk in circles. My position on it? I agree and disagree with the Jedi on their stance. The Jedi Order understood that love, while good at times, can and most likely will lead to uncontrollable emotions. Love can also hinder rational thinking. Look at Luke Skywalker. When he found out Mara Jade had died, he was flooded with emotion. Emotion that clouded his judgment and it prevented him from seeing the truth. On this part I agree with the Jedi.

 

What I disagree with is that the Jedi do not teach their students how to control these emotions. Well I can't say that. They do teach their students how to control these emotions, but they don't lay out the consequences correctly. But there is really no way to prevent the loss of a loved one from impacting you emotionally. I believe that is what the Jedi try to avoid.

 

Like I said, this discussion could go on for eternity. We've all made our point so we should just move on.

 

The problem is that the Original Trilogy very directly makes the point that Love is a good thing. Your position isn't in line with the message of the film. It can only go on for eternity if you refuse to accept the main theme of the movies which is that love is redemptive.

 

I'm sorry, but you are just incorrect on this point. The events of the Star Wars movies prove that the Jedi (and you) are incorrect in believing that love is dangerous or a weakness for a force user.

 

I once again point out that love had absolutely nothing to do with Anakin's fall. Fear was the responsible emotion and fear is in opposition to love.

 

The only way to arrive at your position is to totally and completely miss the entire point of the movies. It's like believing that the story of the tortoise & the hare is a cautionary tale warning us of the dangers of taking it slow and steady during a race. The story is telling us the opposite of what you seem to have taken from it.