Kophar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Good evening, We have just killed the 1st boss in TFB HM and obviously we were all happy about it untill we saw what dropped. Seriously?! 1 single piece of hazmat loot? Are you guys kdding with me?? Where is the incentive of putting my players inside that operation when peeps allready know that they will start receiving dread guard gear only from 2nd boss and up, not to mention its only 1 piece. The rate you guys were givin in EC HM was excellent, 2 Campaign and 1 BH, why in the nine worlds have you change that????!!!! The loot tables on this game have been awfull from the beginning, it is the weakest point in this game. Ranging from item stats to making NM's that drop exactly the same gear that it drops on HM and now this but ive been hoping you guys learn something. My entire op was demotivated for the 2nd boss immediatly just for seeing the loot tables on dulfy from TBC. 1 single piece of gear on 1st boss and not even dread guard and 1 single piece of gear on the 2nd boss, sigh.. i dnt know what you guys are trying here BW but ure really pushing it now. I can live with every single bug that there is in this game since launch and i have been a strong defender of this game potential and i still am but your loot tables really suck and the way you have designed the loot tables on TFB HM in terms of numbers and quality per boss is a joke. Do you even realise how long it will take to equip a guild of 10-11 hardcore players, do you? Weve spent 1 month on EC Hm and we arent full campaign yet, so by this pace it will take us 4-5 months to equip everyone in dread guard and that is something im telling you right now, it will put my hardcore players out of this game. Just to put you out an example, if a guild just kills the 1st boss HM, it will take them around minimum, and im taking out repetition of drops here, 8 weeks to equip everyone on my ops with that item piece. 2 MONTHS!! REALLY, come on!!!!! What the hack have crossed your minds to put just 1 drop of gear on TFB bosses, or at least in the 1st 2-3, is really beyond me. From all the rubbish you have made in loot tables since launch this is the most uncompreensive one. Give again 3 pieces of loot per boss as it was on EC HM, 2 dread guard tokens and 1 hazmat. The loot distribution was fine on EC, why did u change this really?!?! FIX IT!! Edited October 4, 2012 by Kophar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwipe Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I recall them saying (I think it was the 2nd official podcast?) that Denova Nightmare is suppose to speed up the gearing process. if Denova NM is released soon, this could solve some of the gearing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) I recall them saying (I think it was the 2nd official podcast?) that Denova Nightmare is suppose to speed up the gearing process. if Denova NM is released soon, this could solve some of the gearing issues. At the cost of what? You think Denova NM will be on reach to every guild???! Hack, tons of guilds havent even cleared EC HM completelly, let alone start going to NM. This is not the way to go man, get real here. This will destroy whats left of the incentive on the hardcore players. MMO's are bout loot tables, that is the incentive to peeps. If that incentive is lacking than the game is lacking to hardcores. I aint saying that killing bosses isnt the main goal but that main goal must be achieved with a reward and giving a guild that wipes on a certain boss HM and finnaly bring him down a single piece of an item that not even is dreadguard is just pure and simple ridiculous. I talk for myself here but everyone on my guild also agrees with me when i say this, atm i feel unmotivated to go to TFB HM again or in the next reset. The only good reason is to kill bosses and to have a progression marker but that isnt everything. We want to kill stuff but we want to be properlly awarded for that and this loot tables are plain and simple RUBBISH. Im telling you right now, this will kill my guild sooner or later. From all the bad decisions theyve made so far, weve endured, i dnt know if we will endure this tho. What are they trying to do actually?? Streching the rope iot release the next operation only in 6 months from now or something? This isnt the way to do things reguarding end content loot tables. Edited October 4, 2012 by Kophar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I agree. This is an example of fixing something that worked fine and breaking it. After GF came out, gear was at a good pace. Campaign was decently optimized, and any that wasn't would be supplemented with black hole comms. If you didn't need anything, you could buy pieces to RE, which was good for the economy. Good model. The loot model (and optimization) for the next tier is pretty much terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Going to level with you here, I've never seen gear as the real reward in endgame. Gear allows people to do the tougher endgame content (although let's face it, prior to HM Terror we never really had an difficult content in this game) and thus is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. That's why I never complained about Nightmare EV/KP dropping Rakata, because for a long time there was no content after Nightmare EV/KP and thus no need for better gear. For people who raid for a sense of Camaraderie and accomplishment, it's the challenge that gives you that warm feeling inside when you clear an Operation after hours of wipes. Gear's nice, but it's there to make it feasible to do new content, not the reward for doing new content. Now, if you're so good that HM TFB bored you... then yes, that's a legitimate complaint. I'm still only 2/5 HM and must have wiped a hour on HM Writhing Horror alone, so I'm liking the new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierryfying Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 At the cost of what? You think Denova NM will be on reach to every guild???! Hack, tons of guilds havent even cleared EC HM completelly, let alone start going to NM. This is not the way to go man, get real here. This will destroy whats left of the incentive on the hardcore players. MMO's are bout loot tables, that is the incentive to peeps. If that incentive is lacking than the game is lacking to hardcores. I aint saying that killing bosses isnt the main goal but that main goal must be achieved with a reward and giving a guild that wipes on a certain boss HM and finnaly bring him down a single piece of an item that not even is dreadguard is just pure and simple ridiculous. I talk for myself here but everyone on my guild also agrees with me when i say this, atm i feel unmotivated to go to TFB HM again or in the next reset. The only good reason is to kill bosses and to have a progression marker but that isnt everything. We want to kill stuff but we want to be properlly awarded for that and this loot tables are plain and simple RUBBISH. Im telling you right now, this will kill my guild sooner or later. From all the bad decisions theyve made so far, weve endured, i dnt know if we will endure this tho. What are they trying to do actually?? Streching the rope iot release the next operation only in 6 months from now or something? This isnt the way to do things reguarding end content loot tables. IF they have not cleared EC HM, they should NOT be doing TFB HM. iF they're not doing TFB HM, and later on EC Nightmare, then they should NOT be receiving dread guard gear. Now, you mention incentives. BW has already stated that EC nightmare will complement TFB HM in terms of gearing (rank 63). Translation: they will drop the same loot rank. IF they give a full dread guard set in TFB HM, what is the incentive for doing EC Nightmare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifaraaz Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So...does anyone remember when dozens and dozens of players actually complained that gearing up in this game is too quick? How many guilds were full Rakata by Feb and full Campaign by mid May? This is pretty much tthe result of them agreeing it was too quick to gear up. The changes to the amount and ease of obtaining black hole comms also reflects this. Secondly as mentioned, EC Nightmare will pretty much double the speed of obtaining gear once you're farming both. And I assume this is why the loot in TfB is so random. To avoid the problem EV and KP had, where so many groups maxed out all the gear EV had to offer just waiting for KP. Now with the somewhat randomness it won't be quite so linear as long as EC Nightmare is released within say a month or two at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolightsabers Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) The rate you guys were givin in EC HM was excellent, 2 Campaign and 1 BH, why in the nine worlds have you change that????!!!! Clearly to piss you off. The loot tables on this game have been awfull from the beginning, it is the weakest point in this game. Really? All the issues with SWTOR and you think this is the low point? I can live with every single bug that there is in this game since launch and i have been a strong defender of this game potential and i still am but your loot tables really suck and the way you have designed the loot tables on TFB HM in terms of numbers and quality per boss is a joke. You can live with all of these bugs but the LOOT TABLE is the breaking point for you? You're yanking our chains right? Do you even realise how long it will take to equip a guild of 10-11 hardcore players, do you? Pretty sure they do, as they want it to last a while and keep the "zomg loot is so ez 2 get" QQ to a minimum. Weve spent 1 month on EC Hm and we arent full campaign yet, so by this pace it will take us 4-5 months to equip everyone in dread guard and that is something im telling you right now, it will put my hardcore players out of this game. If doing the same content for 4 months kills the game for your players, they really aren't as "hardcore" as you think. Just to put you out an example, if a guild just kills the 1st boss HM, it will take them around minimum, and im taking out repetition of drops here, 8 weeks to equip everyone on my ops with that item piece. 2 MONTHS!! REALLY, come on!!!!! Do you mean EIGHT WHOLE WEEKS??? The exact amount of time as it takes to get 8 people the same drop from doing just the first boss in EC? The very SAME op you said had a well-designed loot table? How does your guild find the strength to go on? Seriously though dude, while I feel your pain at the odd choices Bioware has made for loot (don't get me started on the pisspoor mod/armoring/enhancement optimizations), you really seem a bit melodramatic here. The game isn't ruined because you didn't get 2 DG tokens off the first boss and if you did, odds are you'd be back here after 8 weeks lamenting that TFB was too easy to gear in and your guild of "hardcore players" quit due to boredom instead of lootrage. Edited October 4, 2012 by Twolightsabers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Going to level with you here, I've never seen gear as the real reward in endgame. Gear allows people to do the tougher endgame content (although let's face it, prior to HM Terror we never really had an difficult content in this game) and thus is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. That's why I never complained about Nightmare EV/KP dropping Rakata, because for a long time there was no content after Nightmare EV/KP and thus no need for better gear. For people who raid for a sense of Camaraderie and accomplishment, it's the challenge that gives you that warm feeling inside when you clear an Operation after hours of wipes. Gear's nice, but it's there to make it feasible to do new content, not the reward for doing new content. Now, if you're so good that HM TFB bored you... then yes, that's a legitimate complaint. I'm still only 2/5 HM and must have wiped a hour on HM Writhing Horror alone, so I'm liking the new stuff. If that were the case, you wouldn't see people raging if gear is made even slightly more accessible. You do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Really? All the issues with SWTOR and you think this is the low point? Exactly Pretty sure they do, as they want it to last a while and keep the "zomg loot is so ez 2 get" QQ to a minimum.? Check forums every single day and i never saw a zerg of posts complaining bout this. Saw QQers and Trolls whinning for everything really but zerg of posts reguarding too much loot? Nope If doing the same content for 4 months kills the game for your players, they really aren't as "hardcore" as you think. M8y u missed my point entirelly, i dnt mind farming the same content for 6 months if theres still players to equip themselves but we want to do that cause we want to, not because we need to, since the gaming company just thought to themselves "Hey lets take out loot drops from the tables and increase the life of this operation". This isnt how loot designs should be made man and this will cause peeps to get bored to go inside that op since only 1/8th of the op will be rewarded to actually kill a boss. EC NM introducing Dread guard gear is more of the same crappy loot tables theory but i can live with that. The problem here is putting peeps out of motivation to go in there due to the extreme low number on loot drops. Do you mean EIGHT WHOLE WEEKS??? The exact amount of time as it takes to get 8 people the same drop from doing just the first boss in EC? The very SAME op you said had a well-designed loot table? How does your guild find the strength to go on? Again youre not thinking for a minute here and youre just raging around. Put it on the same plate the 1st boss on EC HM and the 1st Boss on TFB HM. Now, EC HM 1st boss drops 2 pieces of campaign and 1 BH while 1st boss in TFB HM drops only 1 piece of hazmat and not even Dread guard. The same 8 guys in EC will take in 8 weeks to have 2 pieces of campaign gear and a third BH while in TFB HM ull have after the same 8 weeks 1 piece of Hazmat?! Seriously youre not seeing a bad pattern??? Its a difference 3 to 1? And you dnt see a problem here??Seriously. I could even live with only 2 drops for example, 1 DG and 1 Hazmat but only 1 and not even DG??? Seriously though dude, while I feel your pain at the odd choices Bioware has made for loot (don't get me started on the pisspoor mod/armoring/enhancement optimizations), you really seem a bit melodramatic here. The game isn't ruined because you didn't get 2 DG tokens off the first boss and if you did, odds are you'd be back here after 8 weeks lamenting that TFB was too easy to gear in and your guild of "hardcore players" quit due to boredom instead of lootrage. You must be confusing me with the zillion trolls that are/were around in these forums. Go and look my posting history, if theres a common pattern in my speech between all of the +40-50 posts/replys ive made so far, was to defend SWTOR and its potential. This is my 1st post making a critic on this game, they touched on something they dnt needed to touch. The loot quantity was balanced. The loot tier drops were crap but we can perfectly live with that. Those that whine cause they geared up fast are/were just trolling. And i would appreciate it m8y if you would take the sarcasm out of your replys, i believe you dnt have the need for it. You arent replying to a hater here man, chill. Edited October 4, 2012 by Kophar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anstalt Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 To be honest, I think the step up in difficulty between EV/KP, then EC and now TFB is enough to ensure that the vast majority of raiders wont be fully geared up ever. Lets face it, full Rakata was really easy to get because both KP and EV HM were very easy raids in terms of mechanics. EC HM, on the other hand, was a big step up in difficulty as seen by how few guilds have actually cleared it. You cannot easily carry the average player through EC HM as it is too easy for a single point of failure to cause a wipe, be it due to strict enrage timers, not quick enough on tank swops or low healing. Its looking like TFB is going to be the same. Both EC and TFB seem like fun raids but on HM the difficulty just seems beyond the average raider. So, whilst hardcore people will gear up quickly and get TFB on farm, I don't think the average raider will ever clear TFB HM. I think that is the bigger issue that Bioware need to address. I'm not sure how other guilds are coping with this, but in my guild we have reached a point where we are starting to have arguements about raiding. Our core team is great for progression, if we get a core team together we can one-shot all bosses in EC HM, we've killed Writhing Horror twice and are working on second boss now. However, the non-core raiders in our guild simply aren't good enough to get through EC HM. The jump in difficulty from story to hardmode is too much for most of them to make. However, they've already got full rakata / black hole because that was easy to get! We're struggling to find a way to get them through EC HM and thus better geared, but if we don't get them through EC HM then they'll certainly never be able to do TFB HM. So, whilst I agree that loot needs to be a good incentive for repeating raids, I rather think that smoothing the difficulty curve between raids is more important to stop the community becoming too segregated. If Bioware aren't careful, they will reach a point where the top raiders are in item level 70 gear whilst the average raider with still stuck at 61 because they can't clear EC HM / TFB HM. I would much rather Bioware smoothed the curve or flat out nerfed the harder raids to improve clearance rates, than keep it like it is and segregate the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 The learning curve is good as it is. The difficulty and mechanics on TFB is pretty well made but it cant have those loot tables reguarding loot numbers, its just unconsistent with everything ive seen to an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 First boss in TFB is clearly a DPS and team coordination check. Compared to the 2nd boss, the 1st is cakewalk. It's like "You have to be this tall to enter" message hehe I don't get why people expect to jump straight to the newest and hardest content, there is a progression path clearly outlined by what gear is dropped. It's not so much about the gear in EC/TFB, as it is coordination. If you're struggling with EC HM, you will struggle even more in TFB HM. Like a poster before me, the gear is icing on the cake, downing a boss for the first time feels excellent! :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anstalt Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't get why people expect to jump straight to the newest and hardest content, there is a progression path clearly outlined by what gear is dropped. It's not so much about the gear in EC/TFB, as it is coordination. If you're struggling with EC HM, you will struggle even more in TFB HM. This is the thing, my non-core raiding guildies don't expect to just jump straight in. They have already done EV and KP nightmare, as well as EC and TFB story mode. However, they are all faceroll easy these days. My guildies now have full rakata / black hole gear, so they no longer have any need to go back to the old raids. The problem now is the jump up in difficulty to EC HM, especially now that story mode got nerfed. These people in my guild, and I expect many other guilds, cannot make the massive jump in difficulty. Not only do the mechanics become harder but you have to be able to play your class to the limit, otherwise you fail enrage timers or die. Nowhere else has challenged them in this way and wiping over and over isn't helping them learn. It is my job as an officer and raid leader to figure out a way to train these people, but I just can't do it. For myself and the other core raiders in my guild, we had EC HM on farm months ago, we've done first boss TFB HM and nearly got second boss HM too. But, for us, we were forced to learn the hard way: we learned EV and KP whilst in greens, moved to hard mode in columi / tionese before the hardmodes got nerfed, did nightmare mode EV and KP in rakata rather than BH. It was a clear learning curve. That doesn't exist for new raiders. New raiders generally already generally have some rakata or blackhole gear from dailies. They usually join raids with people who are already experieced. So, for them, it is soooo much easier to clear the first few raids that they dont need to learn their class well. The first time they have to actually play well is when they do EC HM, but it is simply too hard compared to everything they've done to date. My choice at the moment in guild is to either only take the best players to EC/TFB HM and thus alienate my other raiders or take less well played raiders and accept the fact that we're gonna wipe all night and waste everybodies time. I'm in a lose/lose position at the moment because there doesn't exist a raid in which to train well-geared-but-under-experieced raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobluk Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I just never understood why the content must be tuned so that everybody is able to do everything. It sounds like your guild members just don't have what it takes to raid on a certain level. It happens. I think that people are generally fine with there being content that they just can't hack, at least until it has been nerfed in preparation of a patch or expansion. If you played other MMO's, you're used to it. If you want to make SM harder to extent the longevity for bad/mediocre raiders, fine. You'll get lots of complaints a la SM EC however. Please don't tone down the hard content, it is what is keeping the game alive for some of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) This is the thing, my non-core raiding guildies don't expect to just jump straight in. They have already done EV and KP nightmare, as well as EC and TFB story mode. However, they are all faceroll easy these days. My guildies now have full rakata / black hole gear, so they no longer have any need to go back to the old raids. The problem now is the jump up in difficulty to EC HM, especially now that story mode got nerfed. These people in my guild, and I expect many other guilds, cannot make the massive jump in difficulty. Not only do the mechanics become harder but you have to be able to play your class to the limit, otherwise you fail enrage timers or die. Nowhere else has challenged them in this way and wiping over and over isn't helping them learn. It is my job as an officer and raid leader to figure out a way to train these people, but I just can't do it. For myself and the other core raiders in my guild, we had EC HM on farm months ago, we've done first boss TFB HM and nearly got second boss HM too. But, for us, we were forced to learn the hard way: we learned EV and KP whilst in greens, moved to hard mode in columi / tionese before the hardmodes got nerfed, did nightmare mode EV and KP in rakata rather than BH. It was a clear learning curve. That doesn't exist for new raiders. New raiders generally already generally have some rakata or blackhole gear from dailies. They usually join raids with people who are already experieced. So, for them, it is soooo much easier to clear the first few raids that they dont need to learn their class well. The first time they have to actually play well is when they do EC HM, but it is simply too hard compared to everything they've done to date. My choice at the moment in guild is to either only take the best players to EC/TFB HM and thus alienate my other raiders or take less well played raiders and accept the fact that we're gonna wipe all night and waste everybodies time. I'm in a lose/lose position at the moment because there doesn't exist a raid in which to train well-geared-but-under-experieced raiders. Put them on EC HM? For campaign gear? You have to start to train them somewhere m8 and you and them have to accept they will wipe for 1-2 weeks till they learn what they have to do. But were fleeing from the subject here. I think the difficulty mode presented to us on EC HM and TFB HM is pretty well made, specially on TFB HM. But when you go to TFB HM and just have on the 1st boss, after you down him and you see for yourself that only 1 single piece of gear drops and it aint even from the new set, it just takes away all the urge to go and kill it again next week. This isnt an incentive to peeps man, sure, killing bosses is an award on itself but its an emotional award not a material award, killing bosses MUST give you enough material awards to keep the urge to put your guildies in operation A, B or C, take out their loot numbers and ull see where the progression raiding guilds will start going, plainly because they will start loosing hardcore players around thus not having enough numbers to keep doing the new ops with this new philosophy. 1st boss on TFB HM deserve at least 1 dread guard set piece token and a hazmat piece. I can live with only 2 loot items but surelly as hell cant live in SWTOR TFB HM with 1 single loot drop. Thats just BS man. Reguarding going in to farm EC NM excuse when it comes out, thats just again a lot of bull... So BW is telling us to in order to grab dread guard set pieces that drop in the new content operation and that peeps are happy and excited to explore, they instead say to us that we need to go to EC NM in order to have more gear droppings?? So were supposed to go and farm again a place that weve been farming for over 2-3 months allready?? To complement the lack of loot numbers on the new one?? It doesnt add up man. I knew this was their intention but i surelly didnt know that i would be forced to do that. Going there cause i want to clear NM and going there cause i must complement the loot numbers from TFB HM are waaay different things. Not to mention tha NM's should have a linear and progressive loot table from the HM of the current content. If they had in the past made with EC HM for example, instead of Campaign dropping there, they putted Black hole as a gear with set bonus and on NM we would have campaign as it is right now, we would have that linear path. Now on TFB they should have putted Hazmat as a set bonus gear for HM, with token drops and when NM mode camed out they would put the dread guard set. This is how things should have been done from the beginning not this mumbo jumbo of going back and going forward crap to farm content thats farmed for over 2-3 months now. Operations should be made complete since their release with all the 3 difficulty modes available, with distinct sets of gear for each mode of difficulty. I mean we were all having the " YAAYYYY" feeling when the boss went down and than we all went to the "What tha..?? Bleehhh...This must be a bug" feeling after seeing the loot, the loot numbers are really a turn off atm for TFB HM. For me this is what SWTOR should have been from the beginning reguarding loot tables for an 8 man operation: EV/KP SM - 2xTionese tokens EV/KP HM - 2xColumi tokens EV/KP NM - 2xRakata tokens EC SM - 2xRakata tokens EC HM - 2xBlack hole tokens EC NM - 2xCampaign tokens (w/ increased item rating from what is now) TFB SM - 2xCampaign tokens TFB HM - 2xHazmat tokens TFB NM - 2xDreadguard tokens (w/ increased item rating from what is now) This will make casuals and hardcore players alike have ambitions to keep going for the next level of difficulty. It will also give casual/social players a chance to get more or less toe to toe with hardcore peeps in terms of gear. Also throw some bones on crafting gear that its at least HM equivalent, i aint saying to craft the exact same gear from HM's but some sort of equivalent gear that is on the current content HM. Edited October 4, 2012 by Kophar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My choice at the moment in guild is to either only take the best players to EC/TFB HM and thus alienate my other raiders or take less well played raiders and accept the fact that we're gonna wipe all night and waste everybodies time. I'm in a lose/lose position at the moment because there doesn't exist a raid in which to train well-geared-but-under-experieced raiders. Lost Island HM is a nice place to start, it has many mechanics that are similar to EC. I think you need to accept the fact that not all players are dedicated enough or capable of EC/TFB HMs. I think most can learn, but there has to be a will. I understand it must be hard for a raid leader to leave people behind either because of gear or skill. In my guild we have two players pools, Progression and Casual/Social with different requirements. People apply for a team and can switch if they want to be more hard core or relaxed. So far it works great for us and people understand that there must be requirements or else it will affect everyone. You probably do this already, but maybe be a bit stricter? hehe Just trying to be helpful here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) At the cost of what? You think Denova NM will be on reach to every guild???! Hack, tons of guilds havent even cleared EC HM completelly, let alone start going to NM. If they haven't completed HM EC yet, then they don't have the gear from it yet meaning they still need to farm HM EC. That's called "progression". It goes HM EC, THEN HM TFB / NiM EC. Can't just get to lvl 50 and expect to clear out HM EC, can you? Sounds to me like your guild doesn't have EC HM on farm yet which means not everyone is geared out in full lvl 61 gear with matching weapons, right? If I'm right, then you're not ready for HM TFB yet. As for the bosses dropping one token item, that is pretty lame, considering how bad the itemization the loot is. It is dumb to throttle the loot but not the ability to clear. Meaning the raids are still too easy. Our guild cleared HM TFB in the first week, then on "Loot Tuesday" we cleared it in one night. Um... lolwhat? I'm not saying this to brag because there are a number of guilds that cleared HM TFB first or second night of release. We weren't even server first. I'm just telling all of this to put it into context. Right now, we're stuck to getting 5 token pieces for 8 raid members per week because they haven't released EC NiM yet. Yeah, it'll be good to be able to do 2 nights of raiding for clearing (course that'll probably be back to 1 night once we're able to go faster and faster) and 10 pieces of look per week, but I'm not every excited about seeing EC NiM. Sure the mechanics may be different, but we've spent so many hours in there that seeing the same pixels on the screen will suuuuuuuucccccck. Edited October 4, 2012 by Lostpenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I actually like the way they limited the loot drops in this tier. It prevents players from getting fully geared in dread guard gear one month after the content is out. It makes the gear you get from there that much more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Thread's sort of gone off topic. If OPs are too difficult, that's sort of a different issue from the drops, which, I'm in total agreement with TC are insufficient. I just don't understand how Bioware could get so much right with the method of acquiring black hole/campaign gear and then switch to this. Someone said it would take 8 weeks to gear up a raid. That's not out of the ordinary. But suppose the raid has 4 marauders and subs in nobody. Since each marauder requires 8 belts (most-needed mod is only available in the belt), it would take about 36 weeks for them to gear up--and this is assuming nobody gets subbed in or out ever. And that's also assuming Tanks or healers don't also have their most-needed mod in a belt, which they may very well. Edited October 4, 2012 by Larry_Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) If they haven't completed HM EC yet, then they don't have the gear from it yet meaning they still need to farm HM EC. That's called "progression". It goes HM EC, THEN HM TFB / NiM EC. Can't just get to lvl 50 and expect to clear out HM EC, can you? Sounds to me like your guild doesn't have EC HM on farm yet which means not everyone is geared out in full lvl 61 gear with matching weapons, right? If I'm right, then you're not ready for HM TFB yet. Didnt i just told you that we killed 1st boss of TFB HM? Am i even talking about ops difficulty? NO. Actually i even said the difficulty was fine for TFB HM and it shouldnt be changed, i guess ure mistaken me with someones reply. As for the bosses dropping one token item, that is pretty lame, considering how bad the itemization the loot is. It is dumb to throttle the loot but not the ability to clear. Meaning the raids are still too easy. Our guild cleared HM TFB in the first week, then on "Loot Tuesday" we cleared it in one night. Um... lolwhat? I'm not saying this to brag because there are a number of guilds that cleared HM TFB first or second night of release. We weren't even server first. I'm just telling all of this to put it into context. Right now, we're stuck to getting 5 token pieces for 8 raid members per week because they haven't released EC NiM yet. Yeah, it'll be good to be able to do 2 nights of raiding for clearing (course that'll probably be back to 1 night once we're able to go faster and faster) and 10 pieces of look per week, but I'm not every excited about seeing EC NiM. Sure the mechanics may be different, but we've spent so many hours in there that seeing the same pixels on the screen will suuuuuuuucccccck. Exactly, now youre getting there Edited October 4, 2012 by Kophar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Did i just told you that we killed 1st boss of TFB HM? Am i even talking about ops difficulty? NO. Actually i even said the difficulty was fine for TFB HM and it shouldnt be changed, i guess ure mistaken me with someones reply.No, I'm not. You stated that the gear in HM TFB sucks. I agree it sucks for the fact that it's one token per boss, but I was contradicting you about NiM EC. You were mentioning how can people be expected to do NiM EC for Dread gear when they haven't finish HM EC. My point was that if they haven't completed EC HM yet, then they haven't gotten all the gear from there, so there's no need to work on NiM EC or HM TFB. Thats all. In the end, yes, 1 item drop per boss of token loot is dumb, but only because it's not BiS. If we could do what I think WoW does with "reforging" to get the exact stats we want on a mod then I'd be perfectly happy with it. But knowing that it's better for me to win a belt for someone to RE it in hopes of getting the 1 +Power/Str Mod Lvl 63 instead of farming 10 belts for BiS... well, that's just stupid itemization and loot distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolightsabers Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 This is my 1st post making a critic on this game, they touched on something they dnt needed to touch. The loot quantity was balanced. The loot tier drops were crap but we can perfectly live with that. Those that whine cause they geared up fast are/were just trolling. And i would appreciate it m8y if you would take the sarcasm out of your replys, i believe you dnt have the need for it. You arent replying to a hater here man, chill. First post or 101st post, you're way overdramatic about how the loot is. Acting like the world's ending because you only got one drop is going to get you replys like these. I lost count of how many exclamation points !!!!!! you used in your post. Does the loot distribution in this game suck? Yes, but !!!!!! isn't going to make it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying-Brian Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) The loot table should be evened out, and the RNG drops from the last two bosses needed to be removed. If they changed it to where the last two bosses dropped both items (and not a chance for 1 or the other), there would then be 8 items that drop in the raid, which would even things out and put it back on an 8 week progression to get a group geared from it. Then the farming could start due to the poor itemization of the gear. Edited October 4, 2012 by Flying-Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kophar Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Thread's sort of gone off topic. If OPs are too difficult, that's sort of a different issue from the drops, which, I'm in total agreement with TC are insufficient. I just don't understand how Bioware could get so much right with the method of acquiring black hole/campaign gear and then switch to this. Someone said it would take 8 weeks to gear up a raid. That's not out of the ordinary. But suppose the raid has 4 marauders and subs in nobody. Since each marauder requires 8 belts (most-needed mod is only available in the belt), it would take about 36 weeks for them to gear up--and this is assuming nobody gets subbed in or out ever. And that's also assuming Tanks or healers don't also have their most-needed mod in a belt, which they may very well. Yep, i wasnt talking bout how hard the ops are, i am talking bout loot numbers in TFB HM. I said 8 weeks making the math of 1 item per boss, times 8 members, its 8 weeks but for example on the 1st boss of TFB HM, DG set doesnt drop AT ALL. It only drops Hazmant crap and its totally class random. Meaning if a guild would be only able to pass through that 1st boss most probably it would take them 3-4 months untill the 8 players have all same item piece from that 1 boss and that my friends is a lot of bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts