The worlds really do feel lifeless

[Gokkus]

Critters!

I would like them to add critters that are not the size of an oversized elephant...like birds and squirrels and stuff.

 

Also they could make the NPC's do more than stand in one place the whole time. Same goes for mobs. I am not saying they should all be wondering mobs, but they can move around a little, maybe engage in conversation, make repairs whatever.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Gokkus

[OceanwaveII]

It not that subjective to be honest ,I Think what people refer to objectively when they say TOR feel lifeless is that that the world Bio-ware created doesn't ry to emulate (Or doesn't do a very good job ) at giving the impression of the illusion of life on the planets . Like for example the Witcher 2 main town Flotsam NPC sleep change postion day and night cycle , weather is more alive than the planet in this game such as "Voss" . The Bare Mechanical systems of the Quest hubs lack the fluff that game like the witcher 2 try to use to create the illusion of a place where people live eat sleep etc to enhanced the immersion around the Quest hub . Some world should be dead and lifeless , "Corellia , Hoth " Not the Narshaadar or Coruscant or the Imperial City

"Easy Way of Fixing it "

. Some of this is pretty easy to fix to be honest adding more patrol routes and places where NPC live and sleep having npc respond in some way to the presence of the player./class via a script. It basically about creating an illusion of social life . Nothing really subjective about that , that simply a technical design choice . In TOR ever location is frozen in one moment of time and the NPC exist simply to give a quest with no other behavioral patterns of there own outside of being a respiratory

 

That typical of Bioware games though that I am aware of ,Nothing in mass effect has that kind of life to be honest nor Dragon Age for that matter . There more Patrol routes in those games that about it .

 

One thing about Next Generation RPG is trying to use the new AI and technology to create more living worlds .

 

What Might be Harder to do

 

What might be harder is that if for example Coruscant had day/night cycle . Some quest are unavailable at certain times of day , npc changes places or disappear at night only to reappear in the day , The Senator for one mission in the senate tower might walk around the area greeting citizen and refugees with a question marker on her head . Or the Opposite on the Sith Homeworld a Sith Lord goes around torturing and executing random NPCs

 

Things like that for city world would bring the illusion of life and motion of the world , which is what we expect in the real virtual world "Weather patterns " etc

[anstalt]

Some suggestions for fixing the issue:

 

1) Decent Flora

 

The flora in this game is both minimal and rubbish. Trees, bushes, flowers, grass etc all help break up the monotonous space between npcs. The flora in TOR just seems too sparse. Having trees swaying in the wind gives the feeling that the planet is alive. We just don't seem to have that in game at all, closest we get is Tython.

 

2) Better City Design

 

Cities in TOR also seem poorly designed. Just about everything happens outside buildings on the paths and roads. It doesn't feel like a place where people live. We should be able to access more houses, enter more doors, climb stairs on buildings etc. Every single city planet seems too artificial.

 

3) Better NPC AI

 

Just adding more patrols would be a start. Just about every planet we go to is a warzone but you never really see the war. There are the occasional places where there is a gunfight going on, but again its really static. Lets see the war in progress. Lets see the NPCs moving from cover to cover. Lets see the civilians fleeing / helping / shouting / going about their lives.

[spectreclees]

Day and Night cycles on some planets is a start. Other than that, I'm not sure, not being able to interact with a lot of npcs feels odd to me. I like to just click on them to see their responses, vendors are nice but how about some actual people. Nobody is able to be clicked on. Perhaps being able to go in the buildings that are all around us. I'd love to go up in the residential areas in Kaas City. One thing I liked about KoToR was going in the Apartments back on Taris and seeing people around there, made me feel like I was on a living breathing world. Edited October 2, 2012 by spectreclees

[sockrocker]

I agree that the worlds could have a little more "life" breathed into them. Some worlds, as pretty as they are just feel a bit dull.

Not much more I can add that hasn't already been said but I'd like to summarize the ones I feel are the most important:

 

Critters! - Like rodents and birds and bats, so that not every creature wandering around feels like a quest objective, and adds a bit to the diversity of fauna.

 

Weather patterns - Heavy rain on Dromund Kaas every now and then, sand storms on Tatooine, blizzards on Hoth, etc.

 

Day/Night cycles - Because unless a planet is stuck in a fixed orbit, there's going to be days and nights, the length of which could vary from planet to planet.

 

Active NPCs - More NPCs going about their lives rather than just standing in the same place all of the time gesturing at each other, and perhaps more to enemy NPCs than stay in one place until killed. Also NPCs could behave differently at different times of day, such as more NPCs at the cantina after dark than during the day, etc.

 

These are things that even an 8 year old game like WOW has, that could go a long way into improving the atmosphere and immersiveness of the game.

Edited October 2, 2012 by sockrocker

[Eillack]

I disagree with your assessment, so no.... no comments on things to improve.

 

One player suggestion though... maybe put on a pair of quality headphones as you play.

 

Maybe the OP never hears the conversations.

[lklinga]

At least a dozen, but it's never going to happen.

 

This is purely subjective opinion but

Very simple fix that could be done is pre-programmed patrol routes with stops at random intervals.

Simple to program from technical point just a LOT of WORK

 

Also add the Alarm mechanic

[example] 4 groups of 4 mobs in area [within 50 meters. You attack first group One of them at random puts hand to the head radioing for help if not killed withing [timer here] aggro will cascade to the next closest group as well with member of them calling for help and so on and on. If you do not break the chain you end up within lets say 30 seconds of all groups withing 50 meters / room aggroed.

[Drudenfusz]

For me it would be already a huge step in the right direction if more mobs would be mobile. A second step should then be that different kinds of mobs should fight each other (like creatures attacking sentient beings and such things). Having few more tine creatures that are just fluff could also not hurt, same goes for more non-combatant people on city-worlds who actually walk around (like playing children, civilians on Corellia who try to escape the fights). A full day/night cycle might be too much work, but it would be nice if at least some zone would be on different times of the day (like each sector could be later into the day, with the last sector at night so that it feels like time is passing).

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

If any developer, for once, would come in to a thread like this and say:

 

"yes, we know this is a problem, yes we are going to address it with an update/expansion within the next xx months, we are working on some awesome concepts and reworking/expanding areas with new mechanics, no further infos ATM, sorry but stay tuned"

[Goretzu]

I agree that the worlds could have a little more "life" breathed into them. Some worlds, as pretty as they are just feel a bit dull.

Not much more I can add that hasn't already been said but I'd like to summarize the ones I feel are the most important:

 

Critters! - Like rodents and birds and bats, so that not every creature wandering around feels like a quest objective, and adds a bit to the diversity of fauna.

 

Weather patterns - Heavy rain on Dromund Kaas every now and then, sand storms on Tatooine, blizzards on Hoth, etc.

 

Day/Night cycles - Because unless a planet is stuck in a fixed orbit, there's going to be days and nights, the length of which could vary from planet to planet.

 

Active NPCs - More NPCs going about their lives rather than just standing in the same place all of the time gesturing at each other, and perhaps more to enemy NPCs than stay in one place until killed. Also NPCs could behave differently at different times of day, such as more NPCs at the cantina after dark than during the day, etc.

 

These are things that even an 8 year old game like WOW has, that could go a long way into improving the atmosphere and immersiveness of the game.

 

These are things that 13 year old games had.

[sockrocker]

These are things that 13 year old games had.

 

Just goes to further establish the point.

[Stenrik]

If any developer, for once, would come in to a thread like this and say:

 

"yes, we know this is a problem, yes we are going to address it with an update/expansion within the next xx months, we are working on some awesome concepts and reworking/expanding areas with new mechanics, no further infos ATM, sorry but stay tuned"

 

Think they addressed the lifelessness a bit at the guild summit, but they kinda turned it into a joke. (Something about the same guy outside of the bar all the time reflecting reality). So I'm not filled with confidence... they did say something about "working on it" though. ...Pre 1.2.

[Gokkus]

In addition: KOTOR had this down better. There were droids that you could talk to for information on the planet, every NPC would say something to you when clicked, NPC's walked around more and you could go into peoples houses and steal their stuff.....Ok maybe that last one was less realistic, but at least you could go into their houses.

 

Tatooine gets pretty close imo, with sandpeople ambushes and womprats that are being shot at. Plus you could enter a lot of houses on the Imp side. Why did they not make places like Alderaan or Voss more like that?

 

EDIT: oh and every planet had people to play pazaak with or enter swoop races. And sometimes people came up to talk to you instead of standing still waiting on you.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Gokkus

[alricka]

I think that this is generally among SWTOR's problematic areas. The worlds are beautiful, some of them are very iconic and cool... but they feel like painted sceneries from an old movie. Almost like a huge, beautifully drawn canvas - but lifeless. Places like Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa are supposed to be teeming with life of all kinds, shapes and forms; instead they are a bunch of beautifully designed and modeled empty streets with the occasional NPC or two. Cantinas are depressingly empty.

 

Another problem is the static feeling; not only the worlds are empty, they are almost like they're all frozen in time, like a photo. Add a day/night cycle, add dynamic weather. I'm not buying how it would be hard to implement this in an MMO - much older games did it years ago. With today's technology and BioWare/EA's resources I'm not buying the "but we just can't!" excuse.

 

The mobs are also problematic. I knew that this was going to be case long before the release of the game, by watching clips from beta and so on. The mobs are just dumb, inexcusably so. I don't mean their A.I. in battle, I mean just how immersion-breaking is to see your character attacking a group of enemy mobs while their friends and comrades are, like, 20 meters away and watch helplessly as you slaughter the poor saps, waiting their turn to die. Make things more dynamic, more unpredictable, add more patrouls other than the occassional silver mob who won't even turn his head as you ignite your lightsaber and blaster shots start echoing behind him less than 15 meters away.

[Xatasha]

I think the worlds need.

 

1) some moving non hostile mobs

2) Background sounds of where you are at like in the jungle you hear all the strange noises that come with being in a jungle.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Think they addressed the lifelessness a bit at the guild summit, but they kinda turned it into a joke. (Something about the same guy outside of the bar all the time reflecting reality). So I'm not filled with confidence... they did say something about "working on it" though. ...Pre 1.2.

 

Well, for example I am not so happy about "new planets" I´d much rather prefer expanding and reworking the old ones.

For example, Tattooine - this is only a tiny fraction of a planet. Why can´t I just go through the desert for an hour without running into numerous "exhaustion zones"? With a handful of POIs scattered around the planet surface, a more natural animal population and a planetary day/night cycle, this could be an awesome world.

[-Me-]

DCUO really does feel a LOT more alive to me as well and even with it not having day/night cycles but it's lore for it not too anyway. However it does get extremely annoying hearing the NPCs scream the same "help police" for the umpteenth time. DCUO has many many faults but it is to me a much more enjoyable game to level in but then it becomes like this one.....game over.

 

TOR gets all the credit for 1st fully voiced over MMO but that should actually go to DCUO shouldn't it? It launched 1st and is fully voiced is it not? Another plus for DCUO is the VOs DO NOT break the flow of the game. I really love that about DCUO, the cutscenes are short and to the point and VOs happen as we're on the move, not making us stop for much of anything in-order to hear VOs.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Try Champions Online.

 

There there are tons of NPCs whose only function is to move around and react to the player characters. They cross streets, walk down hallways, enter and exit buildings, sit on benches reading, take pictures, and chatter about missions and events involving the PCs. They even run up to the players with missions to do. And most importantly they react. When a player runs by them they turn and look. If player bumps them they fall over. If the player take off in flight they point.

 

Add a little of that in this game and I think it'll help. Hearing the same guy being checked in at the Taris security check over and over gets boring. Change it up. Give us some characters. Randomize it.

 

They also need to add more little things for players to do in other areas. People don't gather in places where nothing is happening and there is nothing to do. Make alcohol have an affect (ala WoW). Give us chairs that we can actually sit in (beside the few on our ships). Give us mini games to play and watch. Put bands in the cantinas here and there and give them a life of their own too.

 

 

WoW isn't the only game with alcohol effect. Why does everyone always go to WoW as a reference?

[Chaac]

Some suggestions for fixing the issue:

 

1) Decent Flora

 

The flora in this game is both minimal and rubbish. Trees, bushes, flowers, grass etc all help break up the monotonous space between npcs. The flora in TOR just seems too sparse. Having trees swaying in the wind gives the feeling that the planet is alive. We just don't seem to have that in game at all, closest we get is Tython.

 

 

I really can't stress this point enough. Tython feels very different to a lot of the game mostly because of this. Tor could really benefit from having more Flora.

[Cakellene]

Worlds don't seem lifeless and dull to me.

[sockrocker]

Worlds don't seem lifeless and dull to me.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

[Cakellene]

WoW isn't the only game with alcohol effect. Why does everyone always go to WoW as a reference?

 

Being drunk in EQ was fun.

[Goretzu]

WoW isn't the only game with alcohol effect. Why does everyone always go to WoW as a reference?

 

I spent ages raising my alcohol tolerance in EQ1 so my Monk could fight while drunk.

[Cakellene]

I spent ages raising my alcohol tolerance in EQ1 so my Monk could fight while drunk.

 

Ever tried buffing someone while drunk?

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Being drunk in EQ was fun.

 

I liked how GW did it too. Drunk people say things and others see what they say. I was drunk and my character kept saying "I'm king of the world" without me doing anything. Some noob yelled "STOP SPAMMING THAT KING OF THE WORLD SH--!!!!1!!!!"

 

Another guy said, "You're the F'N n00b since you don't know the person obviously drank too much alcohol in the game and that's what happens!"