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Starting to feel like juggs are over-powered...

heechJunzi

By heechJunzi
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mrekxxx

mrekxxx

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yea marauders/sents can - and from reports can do awesome.. but juggs/gaurds have greater survivability.

 

no, you are wrong, smash juggernauts has smaller survivability than maras ... specially anihilation ...

 

they just do now same dmg as mara and PT ... its now on same line... Mara and PT were OP 5 months ... now are not ... thats all ...

 

especially sniper can kill easy juggernauts withe their cumulative 50% aoe dmg reduction ... so L2P issue ...

 

and dont forget its about skill and gear ... some ppl are extremely skilled and worked on their gear few months 6hours per day .... hard work = easy fight

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bathrobe

bathrobe

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no, you are wrong, smash juggernauts has smaller survivability than maras ... specially anihilation ...

 

they just do now same dmg as mara and PT ... its now on same line... Mara and PT were OP 5 months ... now are not ... thats all ...

 

especially sniper can kill easy juggernauts withe their cumulative 50% aoe dmg reduction ... so L2P issue ...

 

and dont forget its about skill and gear ... some ppl are extremely skilled and worked on their gear few months 6hours per day .... hard work = easy fight

 

Pretty sure he meant that Rage/Focus Juggs/Guards have better survivability than Rage/Focus Maras/Sents. It really depends on certain factors, because both classes have fairly powerful defensive cds. Maras/sents have more powerful cooldowns, Juggs/Guards have better survivability outside cds, as well as somewhat better CC, especially single target.

 

Anni/Watchman Maras/Sents have a good deal of self-healing, in addition to their powerful cds, which tips the scales somewhat, especially in 1v1 encounters. They also deal a lot of their damage via DoTs, which bypass armor, and Juggs/Guards have no way to wipe them. This tips a 1v1 encounter even further in the Mara/Sent's favor, which is why you feel less survivable.

 

That's how it is. I don't begrudge the Guards/Juggs their buffs. Maras/Sents were too far ahead at the top gear levels, and while they have a fairly high skill ceiling, it's not too difficult to kill people once you get the hang of the priority system. Their weakest spec got a buff, and their strongest defensive cd got a slight nerf. On the whole, not much has changed.

 

PT's skill ceiling is so low, it's often mistaken for a Limbo bar, and their damage is stupid high, and while they don't have as many defensive cds as the various warrior classes, they can also deal significant damage from range. A warrior can't deal any damage beyond 10 yds (15yd executes with the Mara/Sent pvp set bonus), and can't deal significant damage unless they're a good deal closer than that, which means they always have to be up-close and personal, which is why they need those defensive CDs.

 

DPS Ops have fantastic burst from stealth, and great control in 1v1 encounters, but and they don't have the out-of-stealth damage to justify their squishiness. PTs have just as much burst potential, don't rely on stealth or long cds to do it, and they're much hardier. Ops aren't slippery enough to justify their lack of sustained damage or their squishiness. It's a delicate scenario, because they're extremely strong in 1v1, and capable of 1v2s with a skilled player. Too much of a buff, and they'll become FotM again, but they do need some love.

 

DPS Sorcs are still too reliant on kiting to be a strong choice in ranked. They've got all the damage they need, and like the Ops, a skilled player can kite a melee almost indefinitely, but they're too squishy still, even with the new heal, and they don't have the tools to kite once the numbers go up. Also, kiting doesn't much help them against powertechs. I'm not sure how they can be balanced without becoming op.

 

Mercs need love. They really really do.

Edited by bathrobe
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mrekxxx

mrekxxx

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Pretty sure he meant that Rage/Focus Juggs/Guards have better survivability than Rage/Focus Maras/Sents. It really depends on certain factors, because both classes have fairly powerful defensive cds. Maras/sents have more powerful cooldowns, Juggs/Guards have better survivability outside cds, as well as somewhat better CC, especially single target.

 

Anni/Watchman Maras/Sents have a good deal of self-healing, in addition to their powerful cds, which tips the scales somewhat, especially in 1v1 encounters. They also deal a lot of their damage via DoTs, which bypass armor, and Juggs/Guards have no way to wipe them. This tips a 1v1 encounter even further in the Mara/Sent's favor, which is why you feel less survivable.

 

That's how it is. I don't begrudge the Guards/Juggs their buffs. Maras/Sents were too far ahead at the top gear levels, and while they have a fairly high skill ceiling, it's not too difficult to kill people once you get the hang of the priority system. Their weakest spec got a buff, and their strongest defensive cd got a slight nerf. On the whole, not much has changed.

 

PT's skill ceiling is so low, it's often mistaken for a Limbo bar, and their damage is stupid high, and while they don't have as many defensive cds as the various warrior classes, they can also deal significant damage from range. A warrior can't deal any damage beyond 10 yds (15yd executes with the Mara/Sent pvp set bonus), and can't deal significant damage unless they're a good deal closer than that, which means they always have to be up-close and personal, which is why they need those defensive CDs.

 

DPS Ops have fantastic burst from stealth, and great control in 1v1 encounters, but and they don't have the out-of-stealth damage to justify their squishiness. PTs have just as much burst potential, don't rely on stealth or long cds to do it, and they're much hardier. Ops aren't slippery enough to justify their lack of sustained damage or their squishiness. It's a delicate scenario, because they're extremely strong in 1v1, and capable of 1v2s with a skilled player. Too much of a buff, and they'll become FotM again, but they do need some love.

 

DPS Sorcs are still too reliant on kiting to be a strong choice in ranked. They've got all the damage they need, and like the Ops, a skilled player can kite a melee almost indefinitely, but they're too squishy still, even with the new heal, and they don't have the tools to kite once the numbers go up. Also, kiting doesn't much help them against powertechs. I'm not sure how they can be balanced without becoming op.

 

Mercs need love. They really really do.

 

ah i get it ... you are right ...

 

i like changes, its now more balanced ... kiting is much easier with new overload and self heal, rage management is better and my gf still top dmg charts with her pyro :))

 

what i dont like is resolve system ... but its team work ... so

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heechJunzi

heechJunzi

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Just played Voidstar with two guildies, who are on their new guardian alts. One's barely battlemaster, the other's half way through WH. Both are just rampaging through PvP, especially voidstar. We're talking 550+ damage per second... easily 750k if we played a full match.

 

And these guys who are very good on their mains (one's a sage, one's a gunslinger), and they know I'm good on my main. We are all fully aug'ed WH with EWH mainhands on our mains.... But all of us are just amazed by how powerful the juggs in even ****** gear are right now.

 

My gunslinger guildie says he played months in aug'ed WH, and only broke 720k damage a couple times. He plays his guardian 10 times as a 50 (in recruit + bm gear, leveled after 1.4), and already broke 720k damage.

 

For those who don't get it yet... wait and see. And yea, I just might respec focus on my sent... or I'll level a jugg or guardian after I finish bring my op healer to war hero, which shouldn't take long. It's just interesting how Bioware keeps rotating through FOTM instead of actually balancing the classes.

 

I actually enjoy playing my dps commando more than anything else right now. I can stay out of melee and wreck a lot of people. Powertechs are much less overpowered for certain, as long as you keep an eye on distance and stay > 10m out.

Edited by heechJunzi
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heechJunzi

heechJunzi

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Or a more generous way of thinking of this... juggs are Bioware's tool for nerfing all the melee classes in one single shot. How do you stay out of trouble? Stay out of melee range. Sentinel will still be useful for rambo takes of distant nodes, but definitely not useful for big stand-up fights, even with the AOE damage reduction (which all sents should be talenting).

 

Just more reason to play commando / sage / gunslinger.

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Sir-Coffee

Sir-Coffee

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I agree. Juggernauts are too Overpowered. Let's see why:

 

1). We all know that Juggernauts have Predation.

2). Cloak of Pain.

3). Obfuscate.

4). Force Camoufladge.

5). Undying Rage(The talent Undying to further make this OP)

6). Bloodthirst.

7). Frenzy.(Short Fuse helps this a lot)

8). Saber Ward

9). Intimidating Roar.

10). Defensive roll(Those darn Juggernauts having an advantage over classes that can AOE)

 

All of these Juggernaut abilities make them so OP and give them more survivability than marauders.

 

Juggernauts are the real problem here, right?

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John_Whalen

John_Whalen

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I don't see what the issue here is. My tank spec'd Juggernaut has gotten close to 20 medals before and even places in the top 3 for damage. Gear up, get a healer to follow you, use stims. You'll do it to. Juggernauts have always kicked *** in PvP; everyone was just too busy rolling the FOTM characters to notice. My Juggernaut was my first character, hearing you guys go on about Juggernauts stealing the show is not news to me.
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Ghostuka

Ghostuka

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Pretty sure he meant that Rage/Focus Juggs/Guards have better survivability than Rage/Focus Maras/Sents. It really depends on certain factors, because both classes have fairly powerful defensive cds. Maras/sents have more powerful cooldowns, Juggs/Guards have better survivability outside cds, as well as somewhat better CC, especially single target.

 

 

As far as defensive CDs go, rage/focus juggs have Endure pain (35% bonus hp for 10 sec that go away afterwards) and saber ward that is on a 3 min CD.

 

So, what nice defensive CDs were you talking about?

 

Aside from that, rage/focus tree got unnecessary buff. Buffing the side skills (such as auto attack or execute slightly) is one thing, but smash did not need lowering CD with certain abilities. Also, rage spec did not need this much resource friendliness. So BOTH marauder/sentinel and Juggernaut/Guardian smash/sweep tree (rage/focus) got unnecessary buff. I wish they take it away, or tweak it.

 

Yes. I specced to rage too. And I want it tweaked down.

 

P.S. OP is trolling.

Edited by Ghostuka
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Cybermeister

Cybermeister

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Juggs? Maybe... But leave my 28/13 tank alone! :mad::D

 

Yeah.. every move in the direction of "MOAR DEEPS" makes attempting to tank in PvP a more or less futitle activity.

I'm fully specced WH Guardian with a defensive spec (obviously with enough points in Vigilance to get Unremitting because you'd be stupid not to). Tanking specs already pretty much give up the possibility of killing anyone in a 1v1 "fair fight" situation (except in the case of extreme gear or skill discrepancy, dps will mow you down, healer will laugh at your pathetic dps and heal themselves faster than you can dent the health bar).

 

I have 22K hp (unbuffed) and I die in 5 or 6 seconds without CDs (which only delay the inevitable by a few seconds). So what if I die in 6 seconds and a dps dies in 4 seconds? - chances are we'll be trapped behind the door for the same amount of time anyway and at least the DPS probably took someone down with him.

 

I'm not claiming that I know what the answer is - obviously there's a fine line between making tanks 'viable' and making them into 'immoveable objects' - but right now the 'irresistable force' of DPS is still gaining momentum and coupled with the changes to resolve and the insane stacking of AE dps effects it's getting to the point where I'm starting to think 'if you can't beat them, join them' and re-speccing :(

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