ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 No games that I am aware of allow Spec switching in combat. And a 3-5 day lockout? Good lord. Why does dual spec bother you so much that you want to put such restrictions on it? How does someone else's playstyle affect you so negatively? So if your desire is not to be able to switch repeatedly, at will whats wrong with a lock out? Or any other mechanic that prevents people abusing it? Cant have it both ways.... Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 7 days the respec recost resets? Then great, im fine with that. If that's the case then personally I'm cool with it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So if your desire is not to be able to switch repeatedly, at will whats wrong with a lock out? Or any other mechanic that prevents people abusing it? Cant have it both ways.... Driz And as for negative effect....another poster in this thread put it quite well... "Why force you to go to a vendor in the middle of a fight, when all you want is that top level power, *right now*, to deal with some other guy. Once you kill him off, of course, you'll switch back to heal, and fix yourself up...." Whilst the above may be extremely convenient, it is game breaking imo. Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So if your desire is not to be able to switch repeatedly, at will whats wrong with a lock out? Or any other mechanic that prevents people abusing it? Cant have it both ways.... Driz How exactly would someone abuse a dual spec? Putting a lockout on it that's more than about 10 minutes is ridiculous. Example: I'm soloing quite happily in my DPS spec, doing quests and enjoying the game. A friend logs on and says "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X." I say "That's great, I'll heal!" I click the button that puts me in healy spec, and off we go. We have great fun, and friend B gets some new pants. Then, after the FP, I return to my DPS spec and carry on grinding quests. Your world: I'm grinding away on mobs that shouldn't take a lot of time to kill, but because there's a prohibitive cost to respec, I'm not really enjoying myself. Its starting to get tedious, and I'm ready to log and go do something else when friend A logs on, "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X." I say "That's cool, I'll heal!" We have great fun, and friend B gets some new pants. Then, after the FP, instead of continuing to grind, I log off for the night, and maybe come back in a few days because the tedium is killing the desire to play. Alternate your world: I'm soloing quite happily in my DPS spec, doing quests and enjoying the game. A friend logs on and says "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X. You can heal for us yeah?" I say "Sorry man, I can't. My respec cost is well into 6 digits." "Oh, that's a bummer man. All of our healers have that same problem. Well, except for Friend E. But we really don't like him much and he's kind of a crappy healer. But I guess we have to take him. Maybe next time." So I continue grinding quests until I realize that I'm not having the fun I could be having. There's no reason to not have Dual Spec, and you have not quite answered why you're so against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) And as for negative effect....another poster in this thread put it quite well... "Why force you to go to a vendor in the middle of a fight, when all you want is that top level power, *right now*, to deal with some other guy. Once you kill him off, of course, you'll switch back to heal, and fix yourself up...." Whilst the above may be extremely convenient, it is game breaking imo. Driz Wait... what? You are aware that every class in the game has an out of combat, no cooldown, self heal to full skill right? And that the way heals work in this game doing that is terribly inefficient right? As a commando, I could not switch up and heal myself to full faster than clicking "Recharge and Reload" than spamming medical probe on myself. If I spammed medical probe, I'd be full health, but no ammo. If I R&R'd, I'd be full health, and full ammo in under 15 seconds. Everyone can already do what you're talking about. And the game's not broken. Edited December 20, 2011 by tehmoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 How exactly would someone abuse a dual spec? Putting a lockout on it that's more than about 10 minutes is ridiculous. Example: I'm soloing quite happily in my DPS spec, doing quests and enjoying the game. A friend logs on and says "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X." I say "That's great, I'll heal!" I click the button that puts me in healy spec, and off we go. We have great fun, and friend B gets some new pants. Then, after the FP, I return to my DPS spec and carry on grinding quests. Your world: I'm grinding away on mobs that shouldn't take a lot of time to kill, but because there's a prohibitive cost to respec, I'm not really enjoying myself. Its starting to get tedious, and I'm ready to log and go do something else when friend A logs on, "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X." I say "That's cool, I'll heal!" We have great fun, and friend B gets some new pants. Then, after the FP, instead of continuing to grind, I log off for the night, and maybe come back in a few days because the tedium is killing the desire to play. Alternate your world: I'm soloing quite happily in my DPS spec, doing quests and enjoying the game. A friend logs on and says "Hey, TehMoose, let's grab friend b and friend C and we can go to Flashpoint X. You can heal for us yeah?" I say "Sorry man, I can't. My respec cost is well into 6 digits." "Oh, that's a bummer man. All of our healers have that same problem. Well, except for Friend E. But we really don't like him much and he's kind of a crappy healer. But I guess we have to take him. Maybe next time." So I continue grinding quests until I realize that I'm not having the fun I could be having. There's no reason to not have Dual Spec, and you have not quite answered why you're so against it. Your world: I'm playing on my healer spec and suddenly realise I'm losing so I quickly switch to my dps spec, burn down my attacker with heavy burst and then quickly switch back to a healer and heal / res everyone then quickly switch back to my dps temp..... Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelien Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Lol...Devs saying its something they would like to add soon or after launch is not a dev saying its definitely being implemented. Stop presenting your opinion as fact. My opinion is based on an actual dev comment - yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 My opinion is based on an actual dev comment - yours? Based on the same comment. Difference is I read it. Whereas you extrapolated your own meaning because it suits your agenda. Point to the dev statement which says this is definitely happening? Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylide Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 They should make it like Ragnarok online: "Respec? How bout reroll!". That makes real unique characters. :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Your world: I'm playing on my healer spec and suddenly realise I'm losing so I quickly switch to my dps spec, burn down my attacker with heavy burst and then quickly switch back to a healer and heal / res everyone then quickly switch back to my dps temp..... Driz Ahh, see there's the disconnect. Spec switching is out of combat. Noone sane is asking for an in-combat, instant spec switch. That scenario's just silly. Spec switching usually has a lengthy cast time ~10-15 seconds and cannot be performed while in combat. So no, it couldn't be abused like that. Edited December 20, 2011 by tehmoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Ahh, see there's the disconnect. Spec switching is out of combat. Noone sane is asking for an in-combat spec switch. That scenario's just silly. So how would you stop people simply breaking LoS, running off so as to get flagged out of combat, switching then reappearing 10 seconds later? Rinse and repeat and you still have the same scenario that I described? Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alohen Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Perhaps give it like a 2 minute cooldown? or... The same type of Cooldown as the Resurrect Here System, 10seconds, then 30, then 2 minutes.. then 10.... untill it resets at a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dymon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So how would you stop people simply breaking LoS, running off so as to get flagged out of combat, switching then reappearing 10 seconds later? Rinse and repeat and you still have the same scenario that I described? Driz You obviously dont know what You're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So how would you stop people simply breaking LoS, running off so as to get flagged out of combat, switching then reappearing 10 seconds later? Rinse and repeat and you still have the same scenario that I described? Driz Um... not really. In PvE, mobs will leash, evade and return to their spawn point at full health once combat is broken. Raids and whatnot will flag everyone "in combat" once a boss is engaged. In PvP, if you're dying, people will usually chase you, and if they don't, its their bad for not finishing you off in the first place. The scenario you described is just not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranth Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So how would you stop people simply breaking LoS, running off so as to get flagged out of combat, switching then reappearing 10 seconds later? Rinse and repeat and you still have the same scenario that I described? Driz What's to prevent people from doing that today and using their out of combat heal to get back to full health before taking on the rest of the group? Stupid scenario is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelien Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Based on the same comment. Difference is I read it. Whereas you extrapolated your own meaning because it suits your agenda. Point to the dev statement which says this is definitely happening? Driz That's actually funny, you're saying there won't be dual spec based on a dev comment, in which they said they want to add dual spec after launch... You do know you are ridiculous? Anyway I see from your other comments that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so that explains a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoiN Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Your world: I'm playing on my healer spec and suddenly realise I'm losing so I quickly switch to my dps spec, burn down my attacker with heavy burst and then quickly switch back to a healer and heal / res everyone then quickly switch back to my dps temp..... Driz That is by no means what people are saying, people are not asking to be able to switch spec in mid combat, but out of combat. Secondly, in WoW atleast, if you switched you'd lose all mana, or all rage, or whatever resource you got and had to recharge it completely again right after the dual spec switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Perhaps give it like a 2 minute cooldown? or... The same type of Cooldown as the Resurrect Here System, 10seconds, then 30, then 2 minutes.. then 10.... untill it resets at a certain point. Thats what the current respec system is based on though, an increasing cost, doesnt matter whether is creds or time...and even that is too inconvenient for the ezmode crowd as we stand today. If you roll a dps temp and suddenly find you need a healer, why not actually talk to a friend of a guildie who IS a healer and draft him in to your group or activity rather than demanding dual spec. Specs in this game almost all have 2 core flavours plus one hybrid flavour...so how long before people start demanding tri spec? Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xunekaath Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 This is terrible. I have to go back to healing, and back to gunnery (dps) in order to heal some heroics and flashpoints. But when questing as a healer, ITS MISERABLY SLOW. Make respecs like 10k credits max. I don't understand why you feel the need to charge outrageous sums of credits for a respec. I mean if you aren't going to have some form of dual spec at launch, make sure that respccing doesn't cost me my genitals. The whole idea is that you are not supposed to jump specs, sorry, but that is why they have made it so expensive. So if you want 2 different specs, you'll have to create 2 characters. Sorry, this isn't WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 What's to prevent people from doing that today and using their out of combat heal to get back to full health before taking on the rest of the group? Stupid scenario is stupid. I think we're being trolled pretty hard here. Noone could be this willfully.. Yeah, I'm going with troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 That's actually funny, you're saying there won't be dual spec based on a dev comment, in which they said they want to add dual spec after launch... You do know you are ridiculous? Anyway I see from your other comments that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so that explains a lot. There is a huge difference between a creative desire to add something to the game and what you said which is....it is definitely coming like it or not... Devs have said they would like to add addon support after launch...does that equal Addons are definitely being implemented? deal in absolutes much? Your version is clearly not what was written, like I said you just portray it as such because it suits your agenda. Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The whole idea is that you are not supposed to jump specs, sorry, but that is why they have made it so expensive. So if you want 2 different specs, you'll have to create 2 characters. Sorry, this isn't WoW. Except dual spec is coming. They want to add it to the game. And the "just reroll" excuse is flawed. People play games to have fun, not to be told to simply pick up another class that they may not find entertaining, or complete the exact same content all over again just so they can heal/tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The bottom line here is that the games designers have implemented a system that severly limits the ability to switch spec after the first few times. That in and of itself makes it clear that by design they do not want you switching more than a handful of times per character lifetime. Their design, not mine. Saying ohhh yeah we would like to add it in soonTM is just placating the whiners imo. We will see... Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rairn Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The bottom line here is that the games designers have implemented a system that severly limits the ability to switch spec after the first few times. That in and of itself makes it clear that by design they do not want you switching more than a handful of times per character lifetime. Their design, not mine. Saying ohhh yeah we would like to add it in soonTM is just placating the whiners imo. We will see... Driz Yes it is their design. It's also a bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamono Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) WTB dual-spec. This system is kinda old. Ones upone a time I was anti-dual-spec when it came to WoW. I had it in my mind that when you picked a class, you should go for it full and everything. There wher no need for dual-spec. But after a few other MMO's, last one Rift, I found out that I actually do miss dual-spec. The way Rift has done it was really nice. But then again, they had so many skill trees that without dual-spec you would be lost. With dual-spec you get more utility and freedom. You are no longer stuck doing 1 thing. It is nice to be able to change what you do.1 day you heal, the next day one of your friends want to heal and you can tank. It also makes it possible for more tanks and healers to be at hand so groups can form faster and more easy. Edited December 20, 2011 by Mamono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts