Uluain Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 This how you got babies in the official Sims back in the day too, and the players still thought it was an important mechanic. So regardless of whether or not "anything happens" on screen, the relationship(s) to the players still matter in terms of the game being an RPG. Exactly. It is an element of story content. The fade-to-black is really not relevant from this point of view save as a signifier of reaching a certain state of closeness. It is how character and companion get there, and what comes of it, that matters. And, in the particular case of the omitted content, it is also that the play can take the story there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechrophilia Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Mostly though, for me, the absence of any same-gender content has kept me from being able to enjoy my Gunslinger enough to overcome the annoyance and right now, however much I love the class – which is a great deal, it really is genuinely unplayable for me. Really? Unplayable, really?? It's a video game for crying out loud, not life. Suspend reality for just a bit and enjoy the video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Really? Unplayable, really?? It's a video game for crying out loud, not life. Suspend reality for just a bit and enjoy the video game. Yep. Really. I do enjoy the game. I like it a lot. I like most of the Smuggler story. I think Hall Hood did excellent work capturing the feel of the class. But for a male smuggler particularly, there are so very many opportunities to [Flirt], but only with the ladies, that it really does feel like the character's orientation is hard-coded into the story and being forced on the player whether I choose the options or not. And in at least one instance, choosing anything except the [Flirt] penalizes the player with a loss of companion affection. I like my character, I like the class dynamics and play style. It could easily top out as my favorite class provided that the option to flirt as I feel he would want to were in the game. But as it stands, I can only put in a short amount of play time on that character before I need to switch to a class which, while I may enjoy it less, doesn't remind me how the design team opted to exclude me at launch every single time I talk to a female NPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwreckingballx Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Really? Unplayable, really?? It's a video game for crying out loud, not life. Suspend reality for just a bit and enjoy the video game. I couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I couldn't have said it better myself. If it's so irrelevant, why do you need to question what one player finds enjoyable or not? Uluain's case is a pretty clear example of why Bioware actions are problematic for players of this game - story is a large element and you cannot enjoy it if you are constantly being bombarded with the idea that you cannot play your character as you would wish to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I am hardly playing my gunslinger for the very same reason.. which is saying a lot because the smuggler storyline is by far my favourite (my main's a scoundrel) the way I want to play my game does not cope with the state it's currently in. all I use my gunslinger for is warzones every once in a while, with the result that he's in his late 20s now but the storyline is still stuck on taris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revanchis Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ya, I've held off on talking anymore with Elara until I'm sure I won't miss anything. Makes me think I should have just rolled male, but Jennifer Hale is the best VA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Since January, people have been asking about how this will be implemented in order to plan and play accordingly. Not to be nosy. Not to pry out spoilers. To make informed decisions about how best to approach the game while we waited for the omitted content to be available. This is the help we get? Thanks a whole hell of a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Ok, let's lay out what we can reasonably expect answers for which won't contain spoilers: Will same-sex romances be introduced with existing companions? - current assumptions are yes, would like confirmation one way or the other. If Makeb releases SGRA's, then it most definitely will be 'yes' Will level 50 characters who have maxed out affection and/or been through the conversations have access to the added romance lines? When SGRA's are introduced, will they be available from the same point as OGRA's or will the be level 50+ content? What does it mean when the writers refer to those characters for which it seems "correct" to have SGRA's for and how does this interact with the statement that making all (current) romance options bi- or player-sexual would be "bad writing"? Will every class have access to SGRA's? Will every class have access to SGRA's of both sexes (i.e. gay and lesbian story lines)? Hmm, anything I've missed? Edited October 31, 2012 by Tatile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revanchis Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Doesn't look like you missed anything, but it seems there's just going to be more dead air. Man, I hope it really does come with Makeb. I know I'm not going to be around for a long while if they don't come. I have no plans to be waiting for another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Man, I hope it really does come with Makeb. I know I'm not going to be around for a long while if they don't come. I have no plans to be waiting for another year. I would hope that Bioware would not assume that the people who have been waiting for this content since before and at launch, would willingly wait another year or more for content that should have been released at launch. But then I can't presume to understand Bioware's method, or their madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEpitaph Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 For all of the people who can't (or won't) wrap their head around the fact that this is an issue for some people: Imagine that it has been announced that starting sometime in the next year, you will be able to choose from a list of spaceships instead of having one picked for you based on your class. That's all the information that is given. What happens if you play a character past the point where they get a spaceship? You don't know. Do all classes get spaceship options? You don't know. When will this option be implemented? You don't know. Many people would choose not to play characters past the point where they get their spaceship, because they don't want to miss out on the option. That is exactly what is happening here. We know the feature is going to be added. But we don't know anything else, so it is difficult to play past a certain point on characters that we want to experience SGRAs with. (Yes, I have a bounty hunter in limbo waiting for any information on this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 For all of the people who can't (or won't) wrap their head around the fact that this is an issue for some people: Hell, just flip it and have lots of people waiting for OGRA's, with no information, no release date and no indication from Bioware that anything is happening beyond "soon-ish™". Imagine what the forums would have been like then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotwest Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Really? Unplayable, really?? It's a video game for crying out loud, not life. Suspend reality for just a bit and enjoy the video game. Yes. It's a roleplaying game. The companions in general, and particularly the romances (not to mention the multitude of flirts and one night stands) are a major part of the smuggler class story -- in fact, so far my Gunslinger is the only character on which I've completed all conversations on all supporting characters -- and "suspending reality" to immerse oneself and "enjoy the video game" is precisely the point. But assume that BW had only included same-sex romances (because, let's say, there are fewer of them in-game and took less time to implement), while promising that opposite sex romances would be included after launch. Is it possible that might -- just might -- negatively affect the gaming experience of some heterosexual players, since their only options would be to romance Corso and field the flirts from every other male NPC, or miss out on a huge amount of story in a story-based MMO? Telling LGBT people to simply play their characters as straight -- which is essentially how gay, lesbian, and trans people were told to live their lives for many years -- seems to miss the point of SWTOR. This game is about story (if an individual player happens to prefer favor raiding, or PVP, that's fine, although there are other games which arguably do that better) and companions are a huge part of the story. They accompany your character from the beginning to the current end (and will, so it's been said, play an even bigger role in future expansions), so why wouldn't you want to get all you can out of the story you're paying for? I happen to be straight, but I want them to implement SGRAs for two reasons: basic fairness, and because it's more content, and I can see no rational argument against getting more for your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) I happen to be straight, but I want them to implement SGRAs for two reasons: basic fairness, and because it's more content, and I can see no rational argument against getting more for your money. Thanks. You hit the nail on the head for me. I love the game. I am just having to focus on characters whose personal lives are such that I'm not missing romance by passing on it for now. But my Gunslinger is my main, and he's cooling his heels right around the first part of Chapter Two until I can really play him and enjoy it. So hopefully, if this content is really coming with Makeb alongside the new story content we were told way back in March that we would see this year, I'll be picking him up again in a month or two. Ironically, it now sounds like Ancient Hypergates is tentatively scheduled for the same content patch. But then, PvP content is something they're willing to comment on. At this point, if we hear anything on SGRs prior to PTS patch notes, I might just fall down dead from surprise. Edited November 1, 2012 by Uluain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Still waiting to have this clarified. Funny that you could run an update on the status of Ancient Hypergates yesterday, but never anything ever on SGRs. But you're not being discriminatory, no.... Why would anyone think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 But you're not being discriminatory, no.... Why would anyone think that? Nonsense, look at all the information they've already given us! Soon™! And, again, Soon™! It's so informative - it's likely to happen before the apocalypse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Actually, not even that, Tailte. The Reid announcement was made on pre-launch servers no longer accessible even as an archive. So that was not said here. Daniel Erickson's comments were streamed live, but not transcribed for these forums. Likewise Gabe Amatangelo's interview. That was for a third party site that has already shut down. Hall Hood's remarks were on Twitter. Here is everything that the Community Team has ever contributed to this discussion: Hi folks, I'm here to give a quick update to this issue. It's not much, but we actually do not have any new information to share with you at this time. Should that change, I'll be more than happy to update this thread! Thanks for your patience and thank you for supporting the game! As I mentioned in the email to Uluain, we really do appreciate your discussions on here and we are definitely keeping tabs. MTFBWY That's it. That is everything, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Actually, not even that, Tailte. The Reid announcement was made on pre-launch servers no longer accessible even as an archive. So that was not said here. Daniel Erickson's comments were streamed live, but not transcribed for these forums. Likewise Gabe Amatangelo's interview. That was for a third party site that has already shut down. Hall Hood's remarks were on Twitter. Here is everything that the Community Team has ever contributed to this discussion: That's it. That is everything, ever. Oh, I had thought that Mr. Gonzalez stated that the "Soon™" from an individual who has left Bioware was still "current". My bad. I do love the fact that they keep saying they'll post in the original thread, but never do, even when we ask nicely. Really makes me feel secure that they're reading our messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 They still have never explicitly stated any former comments still apply at present. The best we are able to do is make reasonable inferrences from how what has been said was said, and hope those who said it were careful to actually consider the implications in their statements which, as people working in communications, is a professional skill one expects to find in someone employed in such a capacity. So, when we are told "no new information", that is an implicit support of previous information but still not an explicit one. Being told "no information" is more noncommital still. That we have to parse statements so closely is sad when a few words could clear up a lot. "This is / is not coming with Makeb" is not a difficult statement to make. Neither is "We are still / are no longer on track to get this content in this year," or "Previous statements on this subject should / should not be considered still accurate in spite of / due to changes to the direction of game development since they were made." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Good point Uluain, I appearing to remembering with rose-tinted shades. Well, we couldn't expect anybody whose job is communications to communicate anything, could we? That would be to obvious - clearly their job is to obfuscate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) I cannot repost the entire PM here, as most of it was about closed topics and related matters. But this thread has been intentionally left open here, perhaps because its discreet title doesn't provoke hostile responses, in addition to the other on Story and Lore. Right now, the long-standing thread in the Story and Lore forum and a more recent thread in General Discussion asking for more SGRA information are both open, and we don’t have any intent to close them. Again, I want to be plain that I am not asserting an agenda. This is content that BioWare has decided will be added to the game. Gabe Amatangelo was uncertain of the facts in his interview. I am not promoting this content or any social agenda. I am asking whether we may have a confirmation or clarification of this statement. Edited November 2, 2012 by Uluain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natashina Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Aye. I guess that posts about people wanting ease of patching and talking about getting D/C bugs fixed are on an agenda (with the negative tone). Funny that. Ahem. Anyhow, this conversation makes it more important than ever to give some clarity on this matter. The matter-of-fact comment made by Gabe needs to be confirmed. There is a lot of anger by some and hope by others. The playerbase as a whole needs to be addressed. Not just because of stupid Camp A vs Camp B arguments, but because we are all gamers and players of this game. Edited November 2, 2012 by natashina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 No, we are enquiring as to the current status of pending content. If there is some impatience or urgency expressed, that is out of a sense that this topic has not been given any sort of update or developer discussion on these forums to date, in spite of the variety of other pending content which has. I anyone here is promoting a particular set of social values, it is those who decided that same-gender romance is appropriate to and will be included in this game. You are welcome to take the issue up with them, but it is not the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natashina Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) I fully encourage everyone to address their matters to the mods if they feel that strong about it. To be frank, SGRs are important to a lot of people, but for me that isn't the crux of the matter. For me, the crux of the matter is they should let the all the players in ToR know what's going on. Those for, against and indifferent to SGRs should know what that entails. Or at least a confirmation from The Powers That Be. As players, we should take advantage of the right to contacting BioWare's CSRs. I honestly believe everyone should have a fair and reasonable voice on this matter, regardless of personal feelings one way or the other. In the end, we are all gamers and players in ToR. That's our common bond and I think sometimes we lose sight of that. As gamers, we deserve to know if Gabe's statement was completely accurate and an official word is merited and needed. For every ToR player. That way, those that are uncertain and/or against SGRs can make their own choice as well as those that are indifferent and those that have been asking for confirmation for over almost 11 months. When it comes into the game. a poor choice of a word got changed and some of it came out muddied. sorry about that. Edited November 2, 2012 by natashina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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