I've had an epiphany...

[IxBlazinDxI]

Most (not all) people who post on here have NO IDEA how to play Merc deeps in a PVP environment. I am solely speaking about Pyro deeps in this post. I think Arsenal deeps is extremely limited and rely on too many variables to be effective in any given WZ.

 

I've facerolled every class/spec in this game and just because the player is a baddie, doesn't mean the class is. Mercs are without a doubt the most poorly played class in the game. Hands down. Take PT's and Mara's for example, people say they are OP but in reality they are just more forgiving and don't require as much skill to put up nice numbers. Mercs are much less forgiving and require a little more skill to put up nice numbers. That doesn't make Mercs inferior as a DPS class, just more of an acquired taste. Mercs are not for everyone. Mercs are a little more surgical, requires more thought and situational awareness is paramount.

 

Mercs have great ranged deeps and can mix it up melee for a little bit, although Rocket Punch and Flamethrower is best used as finishers. Pyro Mercs are not a burst class and that isn't a knock against us. People get tunnel vision with "big crits". We will rarely crit over 4500k and you know what that's fine because we have the best sustained damage in the game.

 

But what really sets us apart is we don't need pocket heals, we don't need a guard, we don't need to be perched on a ledge, we don't need to be paired with an "insert class here" to truly make us shine. We live up to our name: Mercenary, gun for hire.

[Nightkin]

You know, i gets so angry when i read missleading posts such as the one you just wrote.

Its all about showcasing how great you are and how the rest of the community are just useless.

 

Well buddy, that aint true at all.

I was considered to be the top or maybe the second best merc on my server until i gave up.

Its entirey possibly to showcase some decent numbers, i will give an example

http://imageshack.us/f/196/screenshot2012071822343.jpg/

Thats with a 0/14/27 spec, some extra unload and rocketpunch at the cost of thermal detonator.

Techdmg output on my merc is at about 930 bonus dmg.

However, that a merc can manage to stay back does not in the slightest mean that the class is anywhere near what it should be in comparison to other classes. It just means that you manage to play with the merc since you are above the average player in skill.

And yet, funny thing is that a player who is slightly above the average Joe in skill would handle pvp with pretty much any other class ALOT easier.

 

Mercs CAN do ok in pvp under certain situations, but thats not to say that the class has good designed mechanic.

The guy above me in that screenshot was a marauder and he did close to 1 million dmg.

So, me on my merc played to the best of my ability compared to him on his marauder and i would say he and me is at about the same skill level and yet he outperforms me with close to 400,000 damage.

I dunno about you but a 40% difference in damage output when we are geared the same and are eachothers equals in skill is not good class balance.

[Phasersablaze]

You know, i gets so angry when i read missleading posts such as the one you just wrote.

Its all about showcasing how great you are and how the rest of the community are just useless.

 

Well buddy, that aint true at all.

I was considered to be the top or maybe the second best merc on my server until i gave up.

Its entirey possibly to showcase some decent numbers, i will give an example

http://imageshack.us/f/196/screenshot2012071822343.jpg/

Thats with a 0/14/27 spec, some extra unload and rocketpunch at the cost of thermal detonator.

Techdmg output on my merc is at about 930 bonus dmg.

However, that a merc can manage to stay back does not in the slightest mean that the class is anywhere near what it should be in comparison to other classes. It just means that you manage to play with the merc since you are above the average player in skill.

And yet, funny thing is that a player who is slightly above the average Joe in skill would handle pvp with pretty much any other class ALOT easier.

 

Mercs CAN do ok in pvp under certain situations, but thats not to say that the class has good designed mechanic.

The guy above me in that screenshot was a marauder and he did close to 1 million dmg.

So, me on my merc played to the best of my ability compared to him on his marauder and i would say he and me is at about the same skill level and yet he outperforms me with close to 400,000 damage.

I dunno about you but a 40% difference in damage output when we are geared the same and are eachothers equals in skill is not good class balance.

 

^ This. Mercenaries are no where near where they have to be in order to be an asset in PVP (compared to any other class). There is not reason right now to have a mercenary over a sniper, for instance.

[Soljin]

There are two completely opposing view points in this forum/Community and in my viewpoint its holding back Mercs potential to be heard.

 

One school thinks our DPS output is fine but our tool box is not designed equal to, or properly for the Ranged archetype which means only an exceptional player can perform on par with the other AC's (which is probably not the design target).

 

The other school says Merc DPS specs are fine and the majority of the community is not skilled enough to perform properly as a Merc due to its design and playstlye requiring exceptional situational awareness, and superior positioning.

 

Baiscally one side says Merc has a high skill cap, the other says merc isnt designed well and the skill cap issue is a result of Merc not having poper utility and defensive skills for a Ranged AC.

 

Regardless I personally no longer play Merc because they are horrible in a 1v1 fight regardless of spec, and although I win a few here and there its really because the other guy made a bad mistake rather then anything I did...

 

Some Mercs report being able to 1v1 any AC but I have only lost to a Commando in a 1v1 fight once...it was open world he caught me fighting an Elite on My Jugg and took me out...I immediately respawned healed up found him and wrecked his face...all things equal he died very quickly...I do take into account that I have played a 50 Merc sincer launch so I know exactly how to fight them...but still.

[TheronFett]

You know, i gets so angry when i read missleading posts such as the one you just wrote.

Its all about showcasing how great you are and how the rest of the community are just useless.

 

Well buddy, that aint true at all

 

Actually, I thought his assessment was spot on.

 

I've leveled 6 characters to 50, currently working on Merc, my #7. While all classes are different, they all have a pretty low learning curve and are not difficult to play. Just adapt your play style to fill your role in a warzone. Some classes are stupid easy, like Powertech and Marauder. Others require a bit more skill, like Concealment Operative. Merc can be difficult to play, no doubt about it. But for a very different reason. The class mechanics themselves are not hard to master, and the rotation is simple. What you need to be keenly aware of, is what everyone else is doing around you. Positioning is paramount to playing a Merc effectively, and unless you figure it out, you're going to get owned. Keep this in mind:

 

Point of attack > Objective > Merc

 

Point of attack: This is where the opposing team enters the fray. In Civil War, if you're defending the middle turret, your opponents are all coming from the same respawn area. Whatever direction the enemy is coming from to advance.

 

Objective: This is the easy one. The huttball carrier, a turret, or Voidstar door.

 

Merc: Another easy one. This is YOU.

 

Your team's melee players will be the closest to the Objective due to their short range. Use range to your advantage and keep as much distance between them and you as possible. Stay off to the side, also away from the enemy's point of attack. If you keep pinning yourself in the middle of where the enemy is advancing from, and where they are advancing to, you are going to be one dead Merc.

 

Do not position yourself like this:

 

Merc > Point of attack > Objective or

Point of attack > Merc > Objective

 

Yes, there are times when your team will be overwhelmed, then the enemy will turn their sights on you. It happens to all classes, and everyone gets roflstomped now and again. Play smart. Use LOS and range to your advantage, and most of the time, you'll finish with top DPS/kills, and have very few deaths.

Edited September 20, 2012 by TheronFett

[IxBlazinDxI]

You know, i gets so angry when i read missleading posts such as the one you just wrote.

Its all about showcasing how great you are and how the rest of the community are just useless.

 

What's misleading is the fact that many players automatically assume Merc DPS is trash. They read forum posts that are misleading: Mercs are gimped, Mercs aren't a viable DPS class, Roll a PT etc. and it's simply not true. I choose to dispute this school of thought and defend my class, not boost my ego as I don't need the validation of the forum community. I play my Merc well and to the best of the AC's ability and that should be the goal for anyone playing any class.

 

Mercs are extremely fun to play. Do I wish we had a few changes...sure, but I think that can be and is said about every class. For example, I would like to see our Cure disregard the global cooldown. I would like to our Jet Boost to root on KB. We're getting our interrupt and that's nice. It will make burning down healers a bit easier and help us against Sorcs who are extremely efficient at kiting but are also super squishy. Our so-called "nerf" the 10m range on Electrodart? You should be using that as a gap widener or as a finisher in melee range to begin with. Now that's not to say that I have never used it to set up a Death From Above however that doesn't make it a nerf for a Merc, it's only a nerf for the PT's. TBH if Mercs had the utility of other classes we would be OP.

 

Furthermore I never said or implied that "...the rest of the community are just useless." You and people like you spout that type of nonsense. I personally believe class balancing in this game is just that, balanced.

[Demonsong]

Just wow!

 

lol

 

I am going to jump in and agree with Nightkin. I see a lot of posts like this from puffed up players that shout...

 

"Mercenaries are just fine! YOU just don't know how to play!"

 

You know what I don't see? I don't see Mercenaries constantly kicking *** and taking names, night after night, in PVP. Why? Because Mercenaries only kick *** and taking names when they are not being attacked in melee. And since 99.99% of PVPers know Mercenaries are easy kills, they are normally in melee.

 

Correction: I am sure that if I was fortunate enough to see you in PVP, night after night, you would be killing everything in sight with your near invulnerable self. Because you know how to play the class.

 

Awesome!

[CellPerfect]

What's misleading is the fact that many players automatically assume Merc DPS is trash. They read forum posts that are misleading: Mercs are gimped, Mercs aren't a viable DPS class, Roll a PT etc. and it's simply not true. I choose to dispute this school of thought and defend my class, not boost my ego as I don't need the validation of the forum community. I play my Merc well and to the best of the AC's ability and that should be the goal for anyone playing any class.

 

Mercs are extremely fun to play. Do I wish we had a few changes...sure, but I think that can be and is said about every class. For example, I would like to see our Cure disregard the global cooldown. I would like to our Jet Boost to root on KB. We're getting our interrupt and that's nice. It will make burning down healers a bit easier and help us against Sorcs who are extremely efficient at kiting but are also super squishy. Our so-called "nerf" the 10m range on Electrodart? You should be using that as a gap widener or as a finisher in melee range to begin with. Now that's not to say that I have never used it to set up a Death From Above however that doesn't make it a nerf for a Merc, it's only a nerf for the PT's. TBH if Mercs had the utility of other classes we would be OP.

 

Furthermore I never said or implied that "...the rest of the community are just useless." You and people like you spout that type of nonsense. I personally believe class balancing in this game is just that, balanced.

 

I agree. I do think that mercs could use a bit of a buff (like a jetpack disengage or something would be sweet) but so far i find them to be rather powerful. I dont have a high lvl merc yet (only about lvl 23 or so) but at low lvls in warzones (when i was like 14) i was putting up top damage rather easily, so i dont think they are as underpowered as people think. I still have yet to see how higher lvls go however.

[IxBlazinDxI]

You know what I don't see? I don't see Mercenaries constantly kicking *** and taking names, night after night, in PVP. Why? Because Mercenaries only kick *** and taking names when they are not being attacked in melee. And since 99.99% of PVPers know Mercenaries are easy kills, they are normally in melee.

 

I totally agree with you because most Mercs are garbage. Im on POT5 now...come get facerolled.

 

Cyraaxx

[Soljin]

I totally agree with you because most Mercs are garbage. Im on POT5 now...come get facerolled.

 

Cyraaxx

 

Question: DO you think when Bioware designs an AC they actually tailor it to the Elite players? Or would it be more likely they average the AC's perfomance to an "average" player....

 

If you think its the Elite player...then ok whatever.

 

If you think its the Average player....then you just said Merc needs some tweaks.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Soljin

[TheronFett]

You know what I don't see? I don't see Mercenaries constantly kicking *** and taking names, night after night, in PVP. Why? Because Mercenaries only kick *** and taking names when they are not being attacked in melee. And since 99.99% of PVPers know Mercenaries are easy kills, they are normally in melee.

 

Sounds like you should've rolled a Marauder instead.

 

[Demonsong]

I totally agree with you because most Mercs are garbage. Im on POT5 now...come get facerolled.

 

Cyraaxx

 

Lookie here more garbage spouted by an wantabe elitist.

 

That's very impressive.

 

Lets set up a series of duels. Say 25 duels, we will hang out at the imp fleet and I will spam your challenge to the fleet. You will fight the first 25, level 50 non-mercenaries we can find. I bet you can't win more than 1 (maaaaaaaybe 2) out of 25.

 

Come on super dude, put your money where your mouth is.

[IxBlazinDxI]

Lookie here more garbage spouted by an wantabe elitist.

 

That's very impressive.

 

Lets set up a series of duels. Say 25 duels, we will hang out at the imp fleet and I will spam your challenge to the fleet. You will fight the first 25, level 50 non-mercenaries we can find. I bet you can't win more than 1 (maaaaaaaybe 2) out of 25.

 

Come on super dude, put your money where your mouth is.

 

Oh I forgot 1v1 is such an important archetype in this game, oh wait...what is your mains name? Funny how people never let anyone else know who they are in-game.

[Chaoskyx]

Oh I forgot 1v1 is such an important archetype in this game, oh wait...what is your mains name? Funny how people never let anyone else know who they are in-game.

 

Demonsong isn't the one boasting; they have nothing to prove, and no reason to tell you who they are. Frankly, I don't see the point of that comment.

 

Anyway, moving on.

 

Personally, I like dueling, and if I can't do that, it upsets me. The real point here, however, is that a sniper has better group utility and better 1v1 capability than a mercenary, meaning that it is always better to have a sniper on a team than a mercenary, and due to their poor 1v1 capability, mercs can often be something of a weak link, taking up resources (healing, peels, etc.) that they wouldn't if they were just about any other class.

[IxBlazinDxI]

Demonsong isn't the one boasting; they have nothing to prove, and no reason to tell you who they are. Frankly, I don't see the point of that comment.

 

Anyway, moving on.

 

Personally, I like dueling, and if I can't do that, it upsets me. The real point here, however, is that a sniper has better group utility and better 1v1 capability than a mercenary, meaning that it is always better to have a sniper on a team than a mercenary, and due to their poor 1v1 capability, mercs can often be something of a weak link, taking up resources (healing, peels, etc.) that they wouldn't if they were just about any other class.

 

Top DPS on the team is a hindrance to the team I guess? Too bad you don't get objectives for burning healers and stopping caps.

[yoomazir]

http://imageshack.us/f/717/screenshot2012092319344.jpg/

 

After looking at this screenshot, if I tell you this means nothing and that mercenary class sucks compared to other classes, would you believe me? Or will you keep bragging at how mercs are fine and it's just a matter of L2P by looking at that picture?

Edited September 23, 2012 by yoomazir

[DarthBloodloss]

Lookie here more garbage spouted by an wantabe elitist.

 

That's very impressive.

 

Lets set up a series of duels. Say 25 duels, we will hang out at the imp fleet and I will spam your challenge to the fleet. You will fight the first 25, level 50 non-mercenaries we can find. I bet you can't win more than 1 (maaaaaaaybe 2) out of 25.

 

Come on super dude, put your money where your mouth is.

 

I guess this is off-topic or counter-intuitive to the argument here but I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. *Well geared* Pyro Mercs are actually pretty decent in 1 on 1 vs random opponents. I'd guess that I'd win against at least half of those random 25 opponents. (Not because Im good, just because Pyro Mercs aren't so terrible with only 1 opponent on them.)

 

So if the dude you challenged has some sick gear...he may actually surprise you (But only in 1 on 1s).

[Asturias]

Most (not all) people who post on here have NO IDEA how to play Merc deeps in a PVP environment. I am solely speaking about Pyro deeps in this post. I think Arsenal deeps is extremely limited and rely on too many variables to be effective in any given WZ.

 

I've facerolled every class/spec in this game and just because the player is a baddie, doesn't mean the class is. Mercs are without a doubt the most poorly played class in the game. Hands down. Take PT's and Mara's for example, people say they are OP but in reality they are just more forgiving and don't require as much skill to put up nice numbers. Mercs are much less forgiving and require a little more skill to put up nice numbers. That doesn't make Mercs inferior as a DPS class, just more of an acquired taste. Mercs are not for everyone. Mercs are a little more surgical, requires more thought and situational awareness is paramount.

 

Mercs have great ranged deeps and can mix it up melee for a little bit, although Rocket Punch and Flamethrower is best used as finishers. Pyro Mercs are not a burst class and that isn't a knock against us. People get tunnel vision with "big crits". We will rarely crit over 4500k and you know what that's fine because we have the best sustained damage in the game.

 

But what really sets us apart is we don't need pocket heals, we don't need a guard, we don't need to be perched on a ledge, we don't need to be paired with an "insert class here" to truly make us shine. We live up to our name: Mercenary, gun for hire.

 

This has to be a cruel joke of some sort by a pesky FoTM player? Not funny brah......

[TheronFett]

http://imageshack.us/f/717/screenshot2012092319344.jpg/

 

After looking at this screenshot, if I tell you this means nothing and that mercenary class sucks compared to other classes, would you believe me? Or will you keep bragging at how mercs are fine and it's just a matter of L2P by looking at that picture?

 

To be fair, that looks like a premade facerolling a PUG.

[yoomazir]

To be fair, that looks like a premade facerolling a PUG.

 

Then the class is fine?

[TheronFett]

Then the class is fine?

 

I never said it wasn't. In fact, if you look at any of my posts in the Merc forum, I happen to think the class is far from gimped. The change to Rocket Punch is stupid, but if we're talking about PvP, Arsenal doesn't really apply anyway. If you're playing Arsenal in PvP, you're doing it wrong.

[Ranaath]

Let's say you are the uber leet Merc. Let's go with that.

 

I think what everyone is saying here is that, with similar time, skill and gear effort put in, you would be doing better than you are with basically any other class. And I think they are right. Much in PVP is in being a good player, of course it is, but right now for any serious RWZ team, it's hard to imagine anyone choosing a Merc over, say, a Sniper, or basically anything else, all other factors being equal (player skill, gearing, etc).

 

However great you may be, you'd be even better playing something else now. Know this. And someone just as good as you, playing something else, is now of much more value to the team. If that is in fact considered "fine", then I guess Mercs are fine.

[yoomazir]

...but right now for any serious RWZ team, it's hard to imagine anyone choosing a Merc over, say, a Sniper, or basically anything else, all other factors being equal (player skill, gearing, etc).

 

Pretty much this, but hey, Mercs are fine (ROFLMAO).

[Azrienov]

Actually, I thought his assessment was spot on.

 

I've leveled 6 characters to 50, currently working on Merc, my #7. While all classes are different, they all have a pretty low learning curve and are not difficult to play. Just adapt your play style to fill your role in a warzone. Some classes are stupid easy, like Powertech and Marauder. Others require a bit more skill, like Concealment Operative. Merc can be difficult to play, no doubt about it. But for a very different reason. The class mechanics themselves are not hard to master, and the rotation is simple. What you need to be keenly aware of, is what everyone else is doing around you. Positioning is paramount to playing a Merc effectively, and unless you figure it out, you're going to get owned. Keep this in mind:

 

Point of attack > Objective > Merc

 

Point of attack: This is where the opposing team enters the fray. In Civil War, if you're defending the middle turret, your opponents are all coming from the same respawn area. Whatever direction the enemy is coming from to advance.

 

Objective: This is the easy one. The huttball carrier, a turret, or Voidstar door.

 

Merc: Another easy one. This is YOU.

 

Your team's melee players will be the closest to the Objective due to their short range. Use range to your advantage and keep as much distance between them and you as possible. Stay off to the side, also away from the enemy's point of attack. If you keep pinning yourself in the middle of where the enemy is advancing from, and where they are advancing to, you are going to be one dead Merc.

 

Do not position yourself like this:

 

Merc > Point of attack > Objective or

Point of attack > Merc > Objective

 

Yes, there are times when your team will be overwhelmed, then the enemy will turn their sights on you. It happens to all classes, and everyone gets roflstomped now and again. Play smart. Use LOS and range to your advantage, and most of the time, you'll finish with top DPS/kills, and have very few deaths.

 

And yet, any melee DPS with a brain knows that you need to die. If you're left alone, you'll be a serious pain in the ***. You're argument toward limiting the area of deployment is a great way to take yourself OUT of the equation. It doesn't work like that. You spend more time trying to get into the position suggested than inflicting damage and being useful.

 

Turtle mentalities like this don't allow the flexibility necessary to succeed in pvp, and fact of the matter is, EVERY objective requires a close proximity to defend properly. You can't interrupt the turret cap if you run off the platform and get picked up by a dps who knows that keeping you busy while his partner caps is the way to go. You can't stop the scoring player making a drive in huttball if you're constantly following him rather than anticipating his movement and intercepting him for either a barrage of fire or knockbacks. Staying out of the narrow angle for you to engage targets capping in denova is bad, and your input makes zero sense for Voidstar.

 

Fact is, merc IS a heavily position reliant class. More than that, it requires a strong ability to assess a situation, and provide the proper feedback to enemy player actions. Aka, time to run away before that mara catches you. There's no algorithm for PvP behavior. You need to react fluidly on any class and prioritize dangerous targets like healers or Sentinels/marauders. But treating the game map in a cut and dry "You should be on this side of everything all the time" is a bad mentality. If you'd said "if you're here in the point of attack, realize that and act appropriately." Sure I can buy that.

 

But as it is, you aren't 50 yet on your merc. Having a 50 on everything else doesn't quite translate as understanding the mechanics of the class you're leveling now. Your point of view will change as you translate into 50 pvp, because sub 50, mercs are actually quite impressive.

[Azrienov]

I never said it wasn't. In fact, if you look at any of my posts in the Merc forum, I happen to think the class is far from gimped. The change to Rocket Punch is stupid, but if we're talking about PvP, Arsenal doesn't really apply anyway. If you're playing Arsenal in PvP, you're doing it wrong.

 

This I also disagree with. Arsenal merc is viable in PvP with a good composition in tandem with them. They make for excellent damage dealers. They're fall out comes from their lack of defensive components. I do agree the change to Rocket punch was stupid. If, however, they put it on something like missile blast, I'd be ecstatic. But Arsenal has a place, even if it deserves a serious overhaul.