reposted again.. warzone leavers

[ArchangelLBC]

Simple fix:

 

If you rage quit. You can't requeue till the match you left is over PLUS everybody in it has left or 2mins have past.

That way the quitter is kind of punished and the team members he abandoned have had a chance to requeue ahead of him.

I'd also like to add a shameing title to their characters name but that's just me being mean.

 

 

As long as they can differentiate between players who DC and those who just leave. The chat window can tell the difference so this shouldn't be too hard. People could still work around this if they really wanted to rage quit, but it'd be more hassle than it's worth imo.

[ReddNekk]

Hey everyone! I talked to Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the issue of players leaving normal Warzones. This is something that's important to us, and if we introduce any changes to the system, we want to make sure we do it right. To that end, we're considering several options, like applying the deserter debuff we have for Ranked (or another penalty for leaving) or the possibility of additional incentives to stay in the Warzone. We'll keep you updated on any changes and appreciate your feedback!

 

How about a nice stiff penalty, like cant queue for WZs OR in group finder for at least one hour if one deserts a WZ? Now I know this would suck for someone who DCs but really, how ofton does that happen? A lot less than WZ desertions I'm sure.

 

Better yet, make WZ deserters attackable by friendly faction chars anywhere in the galaxy for one hour after they desert! I'd enjoy doing that!

[Zhaker]

Why is this such a big damn deal?

 

People leave all the time when they're losing.

People leave if they dont like the guy.

Hell people leave due to other stuff happening in RL!!!

 

I mean I'm tired of it. I want to be able to PvP the best that I can, but if you are forcing me to PvP with idiots then I'm not standing for it.

 

Its annoying to PvP with bads, but I have to put up with them? I tried helping them but these people wont even listen. So what I gotta just sit there while the other team have a field day with my team? How is that fun for me?

 

If I leave a queue and join with peeps who want to try to win then cool, so should I get penalized for that?

 

If these idiots leave then more power to me, cause the next guy could be a good player trying to win no matter the odds. If not I hope the leavers find another group quickly to terrorise with so I dont group with him the next WZ.

 

I mean so far in PvP I havent noticed tons of people leaving or even notice it to be such a big deal. So I can only assume these people are with the penalty are the ones that nobody wants to play with. Am I wrong on that assumption?

Edited September 24, 2012 by Zhaker

[ArchangelLBC]

How about a nice stiff penalty, like cant queue for WZs OR in group finder for at least one hour if one deserts a WZ? Now I know this would suck for someone who DCs but really, how ofton does that happen? A lot less than WZ desertions I'm sure.

 

Better yet, make WZ deserters attackable by friendly faction chars anywhere in the galaxy for one hour after they desert! I'd enjoy doing that!

 

God I hope this isn't a serious suggestion....

[Kalfear]

I mean so far in PvP I havent noticed tons of people leaving or even notice it to be such a big deal. So I can only assume these people are with the penalty are the ones that nobody wants to play with. Am I wrong on that assumption?

 

I think your right on that.

 

I mean on my server we have a player that we actually chant out loud while forming

"Please not *name*"

"Please not *name*"

Because that person will drop group the very minute the imps cap 2 turrets or score a goal in huttaball

 

Id LOVE to have a system that punishes that specific player but truth is I dont honestly see how that can be done and punishing those players that leave for a assortment of other LEGIT reasons is unthinkable to me!

 

Better that 1 poor sport go free then 10 people leaving on legit reasons be punished in my mind.

 

Course I dont have a problem with people (beyond the poor sport type that leave at first sign this not going to be a easy victory and we will have to work to win) quitting Warzones im in.

 

You cant punish the legit ones because of a few bad apples.

And you CANT reward those that dont try for objectives and simply dont try.

 

Today got into a Warzone (that I stayed for though I was severely tempted to leave).

 

ACW

we go 1-7-0

We lose snow and grass but take middle

then 4 of the team refuse to leave middle to try and win a 2nd node, just flat out refuse

people quit,

new players came in, these 4 would not leave mid for love nor money

 

I tried 3 times to lead a force to snow and none of those 4 would join in, so we were outmanned and out gunned

 

Ended up sitting at mid for last 100 count defending for defender points

 

Frankly I dont think those 4 should have gotten a single medal (despite them getting 4-5 because we held mid all game and they never strayed from it)

 

We need to STOP REWARDING those that dont try to gain objectives rather then talk about punishing those who want to go after objectives but can not do so alone.

[ArchangelLBC]

I think your right on that.

 

I mean on my server we have a player that we actually chant out loud while forming

"Please not *name*"

"Please not *name*"

Because that person will drop group the very minute the imps cap 2 turrets or score a goal in huttaball

 

Id LOVE to have a system that punishes that specific player but truth is I dont honestly see how that can be done and punishing those players that leave for a assortment of other LEGIT reasons is unthinkable to me!

 

Better that 1 poor sport go free then 10 people leaving on legit reasons be punished in my mind.

 

Course I dont have a problem with people (beyond the poor sport type that leave at first sign this not going to be a easy victory and we will have to work to win) quitting Warzones im in.

 

You cant punish the legit ones because of a few bad apples.

And you CANT reward those that dont try for objectives and simply dont try.

 

Today got into a Warzone (that I stayed for though I was severely tempted to leave).

 

ACW

we go 1-7-0

We lose snow and grass but take middle

then 4 of the team refuse to leave middle to try and win a 2nd node, just flat out refuse

people quit,

new players came in, these 4 would not leave mid for love nor money

 

I tried 3 times to lead a force to snow and none of those 4 would join in, so we were outmanned and out gunned

 

Ended up sitting at mid for last 100 count defending for defender points

 

Frankly I dont think those 4 should have gotten a single medal (despite them getting 4-5 because we held mid all game and they never strayed from it)

 

We need to STOP REWARDING those that dont try to gain objectives rather then talk about punishing those who want to go after objectives but can not do so alone.

 

You make a good point, but by the same token, I know that I spend many a civil war solo guarding grass on my shadow. I've sometimes gone almost the whole game without engaging anyone, but I was the only one guarding and couldn't leave. Better those 4 losers get defender medals at mid than punish the people who are legitimately playing guard duty so other team members can go contribute.

 

Honestly I almost wish there was an LVP button, but I fear the baddies would just abuse it.

[Zhaker]

*snip*

Today got into a Warzone (that I stayed for though I was severely tempted to leave).

 

ACW

we go 1-7-0

We lose snow and grass but take middle

then 4 of the team refuse to leave middle to try and win a 2nd node, just flat out refuse

people quit,

new players came in, these 4 would not leave mid for love nor money

 

I tried 3 times to lead a force to snow and none of those 4 would join in, so we were outmanned and out gunned

 

Ended up sitting at mid for last 100 count defending for defender points

 

Frankly I dont think those 4 should have gotten a single medal (despite them getting 4-5 because we held mid all game and they never strayed from it)

 

We need to STOP REWARDING those that dont try to gain objectives rather then talk about punishing those who want to go after objectives but can not do so alone.

 

Yeap, thats the definition of a PvP Idiots.

 

I got ANOTHER assumption that these idiots have a class or 2 on each faction because in 1 week I notice massive losses because of these idiots, and the next week I notice a massive set of wins. Note that the quality seems to shift weekly too which is annoying.

 

I solo PuG PvP sometimes, but due to those massive losses I had to group with regular PvP chums who I can count on to provide an effort to win to win those games, and it was a 50% effort though we get drained trying to do so many things to win the game.

 

Sometimes it can be possible to carry an idiot or two. But I rather should be allowed to repeatedly with no cooldown on my Sorc to life grip them constantly in the fire pit for Huttball, and getting some kill rewards for my efforts on them.

 

EDIT: Just so you idiots know I do idiots things too, but at least I know to take the blame for the error and stop being an idiot afterwards. Just saying.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Zhaker

[justwipeit]

Another issue pertaining to warzone leavers are people who twink out at 49 just to roll the 1-49 bracket. They leave any warzone right at the end to avoid leveling to 50. This does have an adverse affect on the warzone, as most people in that bracket go in to learn the warzone system and to better themselves. Having someone who is VERY difficult to kill and will typically win a 1 on 1 based on gear alone isn't conducive to a good learning environment.

 

What would you rather have - new 50s who have done quite a few warzones before and have a good idea on working strategy, or people who stayed as far away from warzones during their 1-49 period and go into the 50 bracket with no idea what to do.

 

Suggestion

 

A) Add a 15 minute debuff for people who leave AFTER the initial WZ loading period (where you are in the ship / spawning area). If the game hasn't started, then you are free to leave without penalty. This way, if you really don't want to run with people who aren't as geared as you might like, you can try your luck again. Since it is in the period where nothing has happened yet, new players can be added without affecting the team.

 

B) If you leave multiple warzones in a row, AFTER the initial loading period, you should get a stacking deserter debuff - Something like 15 min, 30 min, 60 min, 120 min, etc. There should be a penalty for you bailing on 7 other players. Also, this makes it quite undesirable to twink.

 

C) Add XP gains during the game. Add a small amount of XP per player kill and a moderate amount from objective points (scaled by level). Nothing extreme, just give the XP out during the game rather than at the end.

 

D) Keep the vote kick feature, so players can kick those who are just afk'ing to get through a losing warzone.

[JasonNH]

For reasons already covered earlier in this thread, imposing penalties to deserters would likely do more harm than good. What's more, for the under-50 bracket, if they ever decide to impose penalties then they really need to change the level 40 valor requirement for purchasing ranked warzone comms. I have been leaving warzones lately in the sub-50 bracket when suffering a really bad defeat. The reason is due to the XP gain, causing me to level too quickly and reducing the possibility of maxing out on comms when hitting level 50. Now, I always wait until the very last moment possible so that it has the least affect on the team, but if I got penalized for doing so it would just be adding insult to injury in an already unfortunate grind just to try and give my character a more reasonable chance when turning 50.

[SneiK]

Hey everyone! I talked to Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the issue of players leaving normal Warzones. This is something that's important to us, and if we introduce any changes to the system, we want to make sure we do it right. To that end, we're considering several options, like applying the deserter debuff we have for Ranked (or another penalty for leaving) or the possibility of additional incentives to stay in the Warzone. We'll keep you updated on any changes and appreciate your feedback!

 

Before you consider adding any debuffs:

 

1. Reconnect feature for Ranked Warzones

 

There are people who have 500+ less rating due to disconnections and bugs that force you to be removed from a warzone. At 2000+ rating, one DC can equal two, or even three wins. So, 4 wins (1 hour of playtime + queue time), with one DC, and you're still at the same rating. This is a much bigger issue, than warzone 'leavers'.

 

2. Selecting the warzone (at least normals)

 

People enjoy some warzones, and dislike others. Forcing them to play a warzone they don't like, and then punishing them even further by leaver penalties, isn't gona help this game at all.

[Yeochins]

I welcome penalties. What will it do? It will finally sink the TOR-tanic and finally get rid of this senior PvP designer.

 

• The baddies will still be baddies.
  
• The baddies will still not understand that 7 versus 1 is not good trading.
  
• The baddies will still loose a fight 5 on 2
  
• The baddies will still not call incoming
  
• The baddies will still let Warriors and Knights jump to them in huttball.
  
• The baddies will still not focus the marked healer
  
• Nobody wants to carry the baddies because lets face it, its easier to do nightmare denova (Explosive Conflict) than play with these baddies.
  

 

The final result PREMADES, PREMADES, PREMADES. Dont queue until your sitting in a comfortable group of 4 or 8 people. Once this penalty stuff ships, you'll see endless crying on the forums about premades.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Yeochins

[TonyDragonflame]

The final result PREMADES, PREMADES, PREMADES. Dont queue until your sitting in a comfortable group of 4 or 8 people. Once this penalty stuff ships, you'll see endless crying on the forums about premades.

 

The server merges 2.0 to 1 server is near.

 

And then closing that server for sure.

 

No one will leave WZ, because no one dont play the game. Happy end!

[GalnarDegana]

There needs to be a change in the vote to kick feature that is in right now. There should be a chat notification if someone is flagged for removal to all the players on the team. It needs to be brought to the attention of other people that there is a vote going on. This stealth vote going on now isn't working. If 5 people vote, it should kick the player in 30 seconds.

 

That being said, there needs to be some penalty for regular warzones. As an experienced player, I am always annoyed when people leave the match at the first sign of danger, because things may not be going well, but they just screwed those of us with any perseverance. Yes, it is annoying to be stuck in a warzone with 5 people in recruit gear, 1 person in pve gear, and 1 other person in War Hero gear, but you know what is worse? Having that 1 person in War Hero leave because he has the arrogance to think that his time is any more important than mine. If they had a statistic for "Warzones Abandoned" that I could see on their stat page, then that might discourage Warzones. Combine that with a Vote to Kick feature that actually works well, and we are in business. People wouldn't want to have that rating very high.

[NoaFlux]

Another issue pertaining to warzone leavers are people who twink out at 49 just to roll the 1-49 bracket. They leave any warzone right at the end to avoid leveling to 50. This does have an adverse affect on the warzone, as most people in that bracket go in to learn the warzone system and to better themselves. Having someone who is VERY difficult to kill and will typically win a 1 on 1 based on gear alone isn't conducive to a good learning environment.

 

What would you rather have - new 50s who have done quite a few warzones before and have a good idea on working strategy, or people who stayed as far away from warzones during their 1-49 period and go into the 50 bracket with no idea what to do.

 

Suggestion

 

A) Add a 15 minute debuff for people who leave AFTER the initial WZ loading period (where you are in the ship / spawning area). If the game hasn't started, then you are free to leave without penalty. This way, if you really don't want to run with people who aren't as geared as you might like, you can try your luck again. Since it is in the period where nothing has happened yet, new players can be added without affecting the team.

 

B) If you leave multiple warzones in a row, AFTER the initial loading period, you should get a stacking deserter debuff - Something like 15 min, 30 min, 60 min, 120 min, etc. There should be a penalty for you bailing on 7 other players. Also, this makes it quite undesirable to twink.

 

C) Add XP gains during the game. Add a small amount of XP per player kill and a moderate amount from objective points (scaled by level). Nothing extreme, just give the XP out during the game rather than at the end.

 

D) Keep the vote kick feature, so players can kick those who are just afk'ing to get through a losing warzone.

 

Reasonable ideas. I'm down.

[Kalfear]

Another issue pertaining to warzone leavers are people who twink out at 49 just to roll the 1-49 bracket. They leave any warzone right at the end to avoid leveling to 50. This does have an adverse affect on the warzone, as most people in that bracket go in to learn the warzone system and to better themselves. Having someone who is VERY difficult to kill and will typically win a 1 on 1 based on gear alone isn't conducive to a good learning environment.

 

What would you rather have - new 50s who have done quite a few warzones before and have a good idea on working strategy, or people who stayed as far away from warzones during their 1-49 period and go into the 50 bracket with no idea what to do.

 

Suggestion

 

A) Add a 15 minute debuff for people who leave AFTER the initial WZ loading period (where you are in the ship / spawning area). If the game hasn't started, then you are free to leave without penalty. This way, if you really don't want to run with people who aren't as geared as you might like, you can try your luck again. Since it is in the period where nothing has happened yet, new players can be added without affecting the team.

 

Stop with the debuff and penalty already! There is a simple solution to this!

AWARD XP per kill/medal earned while in warzone (not after it finishes)

 

Its been explained time and again why Penalties can not be applied because they effect those your aiming for and a WIDE CROWD your not!

 

Give it a rest with the debuff and penalties already and start suggesting real and positive solutions!

 

I swear all you kids and your crys for nerfs in every single possible way!

 

You have a valid concern, the deserters who are avoiding 50 because they cant compete with out having every advantage on their side suck and there should be a mechanic that STOPS THEM (and them alone) from exploiting the system to maintain that advantage!

 

B) If you leave multiple warzones in a row, AFTER the initial loading period, you should get a stacking deserter debuff - Something like 15 min, 30 min, 60 min, 120 min, etc. There should be a penalty for you bailing on 7 other players. Also, this makes it quite undesirable to twink.

 

See first responce and stop asking for a one punishment fits all because one punishment doesnt fit all!

 

Until you can give us a system that also punishes players who dont try for objectives, dont respond to inc calls, dont work as a team player, you are going to have LEGIT Leavers who DO NOT deserve to be punished in any way!

 

Fix the real problem and you cure the result of the real problem!

 

All you done is suggest ways to punish the result and PROMOTE the problem and that doesnt help the game in any fashion.

 

 

C) Add XP gains during the game. Add a small amount of XP per player kill and a moderate amount from objective points (scaled by level). Nothing extreme, just give the XP out during the game rather than at the end.

 

D) Keep the vote kick feature, so players can kick those who are just afk'ing to get through a losing warzone.

 

Finally suggestions that actually address your stated concerns!

 

I agree but not small xp. Award the normal amount per kill and per medal acheived when you hit the marker!

 

Get 30 kills? Here is your xp then and there

Defending? Here your xp then and there for each defender medal acheived

 

Do this and its impossible to stop maxing out of war zones!

 

I must say I am still in favor of beiong able to lock a character down from advancing but not at 49, at lvl 25-30.

I figure for the benefit of not gaining xp you give up some abilities normally earned post 30 so you get 1 benefit but not the perfect senario that allows you to gank and roll over newbs instantly!

 

The biggest issue with people not maxing out of pre 50 WZs is they stop doing so at level 49 when they have every possible advantage they can have! Thats just poor playing and poor sportsmanship and shouldnt be allowed. But if someone wants to cap xp at lvl 30 and let skill and ability do their trick at winning. I see nothing wrong with that!

 

Plus as a boostered inq or sniper (or when leveling BH) I was almost always in top 3 earners of wz, even at level 13. So booster works very well and those that know what to do dont need every conceivable advantage going!

 

I know id gladly cap a character at 30 to be able to stay in the under 50 WZ (just 1, but I also have 50s to play in the bigger boy wzs)

Edited September 24, 2012 by Kalfear

[Zhaker]

I had a great laugh to day with these warzone leavers.

 

There were 3 that kept leaving and rejoining our WZ while we were losing. These guys were less than 13k and unable to understand the word DPS, let alone know any tactics. I have no idea if they done 10-49 but I swear 10-49 is just a herpderp DPS spam fest because nobody gives a **** to win on those WZ.

 

When they finally left and not rejoined, and we got 3 competent players wanting to win, we won back from 600-350 to 0-10.

 

So yea, I rather the leavers leave, because I dont have to deal with them. I rather they ship out rather than AFK in a corner guaranteeing a loss.

 

As a reward I reckon we get put with an emp vs emp match in novarre coast against those leavers and we basically stormed and beaten them capping ALL 3 nodes, and them of course quitting and rejoining the same group over, and over.

 

I didn't screen shot unfortunately. But the other team must had had 14 players or so on the scoresheet while we had 8.

[Serbegorn]

I think it's funny that those that complain so loudly about ppl leaving warzones can't seem to put 2 and 2 together to realize that THEY are actually the problem. Stop sucking and I'll stop leaving.

[Elkirin]

Basically, many people from servers that still have warzones popping would be happy with punishing leavers, vote kicking by majority or do not consider warzone leavers to be their issue..

 

People with servers already below the critical mass line would probably prefer people in the queue, so that warzones actually pop..

 

If you are in the first group, drop back in a few months and let us know if you have changed opinions.

[Darth-Rammstein]

well, if so many pug groups didn't suck people wouldn't be leaving...9 wins for your weekly is a lot if you keep getting fail groups. Then there's the times where you get put up against premades that just stomp your team and sometimes even farm you instead of capping and ending the game, and you are going to penalize the players on the losing team for not wanting to be fodder? If you implement this prepare for longer queue times because people will still leave but will now have to wait longer. Edited September 25, 2012 by Darth-Rammstein

[DerTaran]

I would suggest a sudden death function to avoid warzone leavers.

 

There are many hopeless battles in the game and we shouldn't be forced to fight them till the end. Best example is the Alderaan Warzone, if one team has left less than 50% of the points of the other team, under normal circumstances, there is no way to turn it around, because you need to own all 3 cannons, which is very unlikely (if you failed to hold two).

 

The timing adjustment of Voidstat is a good example of a sudden death and a Huttball result of 6:0 as well.

 

A sudden death together with a reward for staying (maybe an expertise buff of 5% for 30 minutes?), should be a better solution than a punishment.

Edited September 25, 2012 by DerTaran

[Capt_Beers]

That is zxactly how I feel...

 

...................

[NoaFlux]

 

There are many hopeless battles in the game and we shouldn't be forced to fight them till the end. Best example is the Alderaan Warzone, if one team has left less than 50% of the points of the other team, under normal circumstances, there is no way to turn it around, because you need to own all 3 cannons, which is very unlikely (if you failed to hold two).

 

But this is what makes the game interesting, there is a possibility..and I have seen it happen. That's what makes it exciting sometimes! That's part of the nuances that make a WZ fun. The problem is when similar losses happen over and over and over and over again...because your playing the same amazing guild vs pug. That's when it's a problem.

 

The WZ leaving problem can be solved partially by fixing the premade imbalance, pug vs guild problem.

 

btw. I'm def in support of a reward for staying the whole length of the match!!

Edited September 26, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Leafy_Bug]

Yesterday, we had a novare coast warzone. We started the warzone, we got chain stunned and we lost middle. 2 guys left asap when this happened. Then , we lost west and they were capping east, 3 others guys quit the wz on the spot. As soon as replacements were found, they saw the objectives and quit on the spot. We were 3 guys vs 8 and we lost big time. At the end, the rep team had like 30 people and only 3 had medals, kills and objectives. I have never quit a warzone, how many times have i joined a losing one and stayed?

 

 

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that these quitters needs to take a chill pill and be banned from wz for a certain period of time. It is unacceptable that they quit as soon as they lose an objective. They have no backbone and have no business ruining my gaming experience.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Leafy_Bug

[DerTaran]

But this is what makes the game interesting, there is a possibility..and I have seen it happen. That's what makes it exciting sometimes! That's part of the nuances that make a WZ fun.

I saw it happen playing the Novare Coast WZ (where it is part of the game designe to turn a battle last minute) but never with the Alderaan one. Edited September 26, 2012 by DerTaran

[AntarNyaus]

... we're considering several options, like applying the deserter debuff we have for Ranked (or another penalty for leaving) ...

 

That is a horrible, horrible idea.

 

I hate Hutball.

 

If I have the misfortune to queue for it, I leave it as soon as I finish loading in. Once or twice a week I give in and stay with it for the duration and it always sucks. No penalty will be great enough to keep me from dropping out though if it were significant enough it might mean I would just log out of SWTOR completely for the day. If something like this is implemented then something like the group finder needs to be added to the PvP queue where we can choose which warzones to queue for.

 

I almost never intentionally leave a warzone once it has started but on occasion I have lost the connection and been removed or my Group Finder queue will pop and I'll accept the match and be removed.