PVP is dying why and help

[Ottovin]

PvP is boring for players that have max gear and Frustrating for players that don't. There is very little skill lv required in swtor pvp. Its just a gear grind and then gear crush, compounded buy the ranked systems failure, so premades are running in voice against pugs.I play a Sorc and Sage both in BM with a piece or 2 of WH....I simply swap sides. When pub WH people show up I go play pub and win win win. When The emp WH players get on I go Sorc and win win win. That is an easy answer but sometimes I want to play one or the other but it is pointless due to gear crush and premades in the random generator instead of in the ranked system. there is no point in playing aginst them in WH. Also Q's are growing because people are getting fed up and are just stoping. That leaves leet pvpers left to stomp out any new player that might give pvp a try.

Whole matches are decided before the start now I have seen things like this and cant disagree. EXAMPLE of pvp chat >>> "*** "insert players name" That guy was one of the first on the server to get full WH it will take 3 of us to kill his *** ! whatever just get a medal and let em cap this is BS man"

Why not make pvp non gearbased do away with the stat gear and make each class stat the same per side on entering pvp in any gear.

Give awesome pvpers unique titles and rewards like mounts pets unique gear sets crystal colors exc exc there are lots of options you can use to reward skillfull players and teams while keeping the game even.

this will allow and encourage pvers to try pvping, aswell as attract casual players that cant commit time to alot of the endgame content or to the pvp gear grind.

It allows all people wanting to pvp the ability to play and have fun on a character that is viable and usefull to the team effort reguardless of when they turned 50, that should also encourage players to roll new classes and give them a try.

The more people play pvp the shorter the Q's. Its not working at the moment so whynot make it apealing and viable to everyone.

[SajPl]

My latest 50 is a guardian, ive already gotten 2 full BM sets, one tanking one dps + wh implants+earpiece everything augmented, i feel fully competitive. Sure recruit gear is awful but full bm augmented is completly competitive.

[Black-Cell]

Not sure what server you're on but pvp on my pvp server is thriving.

 

Although I sympathize with how demoralizing pvp pugs can be, it's time you do something about it. I got tired of pugs on my server so I stepped up my game, joined a small pvp guild to practice with, and group up with the same buddies to practice and get better. Now when I do normal wz it's always with friends or guildies and I'd say we win about 70-80% of our matches, which is muchhhhh higher than going in alone! We all know how to play our classes, give each other constructive feedback, and help each other out with gear (exchanging crafting materials, augments, and stims with each other).

 

So all I can say is step it up a little and try and play with the same ppl so you all cn learn each others styles and coordinate a little better. Oh, and it's usually best to get a real premade of 1 tank, 1 heal, and 2 dps. I've seen premades go in with 3 heals b4, and they get matched with another premade with 2 heals, leaving the team severely out balanced lol.

 

I hope this helps and I hope your experiences get better! Good luck

[Slurmez]

PvP is dying because Orvr was a joke and abandoned by BW

 

PvP is dying because its just same warzones over and over

 

PvP is dying because the population is dying

[Pistols]

PvP is dying because the population is dying

 

/end thread

[FourTwent]

weeeeeird another gear > skill thread

 

way to many casuals wanna just 'pvp for fun' so they have this false perception that gear is everything in order to make themselves feel better for getting smashed warzone after warzone

[Himeji_Endless]

Not sure what server you're on but pvp on my pvp server is thriving.

 

Although I sympathize with how demoralizing pvp pugs can be, it's time you do something about it. I got tired of pugs on my server so I stepped up my game, joined a small pvp guild to practice with, and group up with the same buddies to practice and get better. Now when I do normal wz it's always with friends or guildies and I'd say we win about 70-80% of our matches, which is muchhhhh higher than going in alone! We all know how to play our classes, give each other constructive feedback, and help each other out with gear (exchanging crafting materials, augments, and stims with each other).

 

So all I can say is step it up a little and try and play with the same ppl so you all cn learn each others styles and coordinate a little better. Oh, and it's usually best to get a real premade of 1 tank, 1 heal, and 2 dps. I've seen premades go in with 3 heals b4, and they get matched with another premade with 2 heals, leaving the team severely out balanced lol.

 

I hope this helps and I hope your experiences get better! Good luck

 

+1

Evolution from pug'ging ... i myself have gotten into a guild recently after pugging solo for a long time and am looking to improve constantly while helping others get better skills and gear ... I like how you think! Very good advice!

[jsoulpersonas]

It's not that hard to gear up, and the gear gap isnt as big as the Losers say, if they put you on the same level your still gonna lose against ppl who know how to win. No amount of gear is gonna help when u are playing poorly. Maybe pvp just isn't for you.

 

Why do ppl think they should be able to ding 50, go into their first wz, get 75 kills and an epic as a reward

[FourTwent]

Why do ppl think they should be able to ding 50, go into their first wz, get 75 kills and an epic as a reward

 

i imagine the average player is 30-50 years old that is just a star wars fan. nothing more. they just wanna deathmatch. they could care less about learning other classes, learning the metagame, etc

[Angel_of_Cain]

PvP is boring for players that have max gear and Frustrating for players that don't. There is very little skill lv required in swtor pvp. Its just a gear grind and then gear crush, compounded buy the ranked systems failure, so premades are running in voice against pugs.I play a Sorc and Sage both in BM with a piece or 2 of WH....I simply swap sides. When pub WH people show up I go play pub and win win win. When The emp WH players get on I go Sorc and win win win. That is an easy answer but sometimes I want to play one or the other but it is pointless due to gear crush and premades in the random generator instead of in the ranked system. there is no point in playing aginst them in WH. Also Q's are growing because people are getting fed up and are just stoping. That leaves leet pvpers left to stomp out any new player that might give pvp a try.

Whole matches are decided before the start now I have seen things like this and cant disagree. EXAMPLE of pvp chat >>> "*** "insert players name" That guy was one of the first on the server to get full WH it will take 3 of us to kill his *** ! whatever just get a medal and let em cap this is BS man"

Why not make pvp non gearbased do away with the stat gear and make each class stat the same per side on entering pvp in any gear.

Give awesome pvpers unique titles and rewards like mounts pets unique gear sets crystal colors exc exc there are lots of options you can use to reward skillfull players and teams while keeping the game even.

this will allow and encourage pvers to try pvping, aswell as attract casual players that cant commit time to alot of the endgame content or to the pvp gear grind.

It allows all people wanting to pvp the ability to play and have fun on a character that is viable and usefull to the team effort reguardless of when they turned 50, that should also encourage players to roll new classes and give them a try.

The more people play pvp the shorter the Q's. Its not working at the moment so whynot make it apealing and viable to everyone.

 

PREACH ON BROTHER MAN!!!! I have been screaming this since 1.2. you will get the opponents that need the gear crutch as a way to win,,, Skill based PvP in this game is only in the pre-50. and before anyone says; "lvl 40+ has more abilities and are able to take down the lvl 20's." well my level 25 GS was showing lvl 45 Mara's & Juggs that i was not such and easy target and got most of them on a 1v1 because I took the time to learn the character and the abilities. Post 50 PvP in this game is all aboot gear and nothing else.

[FourTwent]

Skill based PvP in this game is only in the pre-50

 

You like having your level 40+ smashing on level 10-20s that dont have interrupts, stuns, or half their other abilities dont you? oh yea, that's skill based all right

 

grind for BM gear and augment it and guess what it's magically skill based in the level 50 bracket

 

*waits for the BM is not competitive against WH replies*

Edited September 15, 2012 by FourTwent

[heechJunzi]

Level of play in lowbie is, on average, really poor. Except for the alts of better pvp players... It's immediately obvious who knows what he's doing and who doesn't.

[Ssfbistimg]

PvP is boring for players that have max gear and Frustrating for players that don't. There is very little skill lv required in swtor pvp. Its just a gear grind and then gear crush, compounded buy the ranked systems failure, so premades are running in voice against pugs.I play a Sorc and Sage both in BM with a piece or 2 of WH....I simply swap sides. When pub WH people show up I go play pub and win win win. When The emp WH players get on I go Sorc and win win win. That is an easy answer but sometimes I want to play one or the other but it is pointless due to gear crush and premades in the random generator instead of in the ranked system. there is no point in playing aginst them in WH. Also Q's are growing because people are getting fed up and are just stoping. That leaves leet pvpers left to stomp out any new player that might give pvp a try.

Whole matches are decided before the start now I have seen things like this and cant disagree. EXAMPLE of pvp chat >>> "*** "insert players name" That guy was one of the first on the server to get full WH it will take 3 of us to kill his *** ! whatever just get a medal and let em cap this is BS man"

Why not make pvp non gearbased do away with the stat gear and make each class stat the same per side on entering pvp in any gear.

Give awesome pvpers unique titles and rewards like mounts pets unique gear sets crystal colors exc exc there are lots of options you can use to reward skillfull players and teams while keeping the game even.

this will allow and encourage pvers to try pvping, aswell as attract casual players that cant commit time to alot of the endgame content or to the pvp gear grind.

It allows all people wanting to pvp the ability to play and have fun on a character that is viable and usefull to the team effort reguardless of when they turned 50, that should also encourage players to roll new classes and give them a try.

The more people play pvp the shorter the Q's. Its not working at the moment so whynot make it apealing and viable to everyone.

 

Since you asked for help, I'm going to give it you. First thing you need to do is back away from your computer desk. Get up. Walk to the bathroom and look in the mirror. Now you will see the problem. Alright now that you finally know what the problem is lets go ahead and help you fix it. When you are playing the game whatever you do do not queue up for a warzone. If you follow these simple instructions you will no longer be frustrated about your lack of skill, nor will you have to make up excuses about how there is no skill its just gear. Trust me when I tell you, if bioware took away pvp gear you would still be on here crying about how it isnt fair that hardcore raiders have an unfair gear advantage. Well I hope this helps you.

Jenna'syyde

[Ssfbistimg]

PREACH ON BROTHER MAN!!!! I have been screaming this since 1.2. you will get the opponents that need the gear crutch as a way to win,,, Skill based PvP in this game is only in the pre-50. and before anyone says; "lvl 40+ has more abilities and are able to take down the lvl 20's." well my level 25 GS was showing lvl 45 Mara's & Juggs that i was not such and easy target and got most of them on a 1v1 because I took the time to learn the character and the abilities. Post 50 PvP in this game is all aboot gear and nothing else.

 

yeah well my Battlemaster wearing Sage was showing warhero wearing people what was up also. so whats your point. Gear only goes so far. clearly you aren't as skilled as you think you are if you are crying about gear beating you. I've beaten many people who were better geared then me, and I've been beaten by people who were less geared then me. People who use gear as an excuse why they lose are just bads. Just like all the people who cry hack or cheat in every warzone cause someone better then them beat them. I know its hard to believe, but some people are just better at this then you. Sooner you understand this the sooner you will get better.

 

Jenna'syyde

[Sungas]

First time I have gone more than three days without logging in. Well, I did log in, but my heart wasn't in it and I immediately logged out. Might be the first ime in months I have not collected my weekly PVP comms.

 

Everytime I have done this in an MMO, I knew it was the beginning of the end for me. If I wanted to play WOW, I would have bought WOW. The Star Wars theme kept me in this much longer than it should have.

 

Spending all of my time in Planetside 2 Beta now. Didn't think it would end up that way. Thought the Beta would be a secondary thing and SWTOR would be where I would spend most of my time. I guess I just gravitate toward what interests me.

[Blockk]

First time I have gone more than three days without logging in. Well, I did log in, but my heart wasn't in it and I immediately logged out. Might be the first ime in months I have not collected my weekly PVP comms.

 

Everytime I have done this in an MMO, I knew it was the beginning of the end for me. If I wanted to play WOW, I would have bought WOW. The Star Wars theme kept me in this much longer than it should have.

 

Spending all of my time in Planetside 2 Beta now. Didn't think it would end up that way. Thought the Beta would be a secondary thing and SWTOR would be where I would spend most of my time. I guess I just gravitate toward what interests me.

 

sorry to hear that, take a break, come on back after 1.4

if you really are a star wars freak (like me), you will be back

[mtsr]

without the gear I'll quit PvP because the same 4 maps have become way past boring.

 

premades even half premades in pug matches need a nerf, debuff.

premades need to be in ranked and ranked only or be debuffed.

[Galru]

Love seeing the argument that when entering a WZ every1 should be equalized. ROFL what a crock.

You need to learn how to play and grind the gear just liket the rest of us. Months ago you could exploit Ilum but that time is long past and the people that did that are either gone or half your server has grinded the gear the correct way.

I'm Valor88 and have earned the full WH set that I wear in WZs, I play an Operative healer and even pre-buff have never had a problem topping charts or staying alive in WZs when it seemed every other operative healer (with the exception of a small percentage across the servers) didn't know WTFudge to do and failed miserably at it so they all QQ'd the forums since because they sucked it was obviously just the game and not the user.

I for one, as I am sure others who have grinded the Valor and gear, would not be happy to step into WZs only to find that just because I play more than you we're on the same footing.

You think that would fly in PvE?

"Ops are not fair every1 should be equalized when stepping into an Operation to full Rakata or better, it shouldn't matter that I've never run an Operation before... that just means that I need the stat boost more than the people that have run it every week... what's the problem?"

[AKfourtyseven]

PREACH ON BROTHER MAN!!!! I have been screaming this since 1.2. you will get the opponents that need the gear crutch as a way to win,,, Skill based PvP in this game is only in the pre-50. and before anyone says; "lvl 40+ has more abilities and are able to take down the lvl 20's." well my level 25 GS was showing lvl 45 Mara's & Juggs that i was not such and easy target and got most of them on a 1v1 because I took the time to learn the character and the abilities. Post 50 PvP in this game is all aboot gear and nothing else.

 

Im sick of hearing this. At lvl 50, when both sides are full WH, then what? Oooo, its back to skill vs skill.

 

Seriously, unless you are actively doing ranked at lvl 50, please dont speak about lvl 50 PvP as some monolith, because recruit PuGs Vs full WH looking for easy wins in regular warzones is not a fair reflection of true endgame PvP.

 

In endgame ranked, there is no gear advantage, outside of each players choices of how to min/max, which is all part of the meta-game.

[JahXIII]

Why not make pvp non gearbased do away with the stat gear and make each class stat the same per side on entering pvp in any gear.

This would make the whole game pointless.

 

Give awesome pvpers unique titles and rewards like mounts pets unique gear sets crystal colors exc exc there are lots of options you can use to reward skillfull players and teams while keeping the game even.

 

This on the other hand can be turned into something good, nothing keeps players in the game better than stroking their ego's

 

First they have to enhance the queuing system, its mechanics and how the players are lined up by the AI , and also maybe figuring out how to make cross server PvP work, I think that those 2 would greatly boost the PvP from its current state, then add the unique tittles/rewards as an icing, and also give guilds a chance to stand out more, Guild rankings, Emblems some Guild vs Guild WZ or World Wars Empire vs Republic? (defend Tatooine or something like that) with rewards and say the top 10 guilds banner hanging somewhere in the fleet ,this would increase the charm of PvP not only to those hardcore PvP''ers but also entice the role playing/PvE community to try and get their Guild some " Publicity " and mix it up in a sense that PvP & PvE players would benefit from each other. these are only some suggestions that I have. ( Bragging rights and " getting your name out there " drives players a lot more than they would like to admit)

Edited September 15, 2012 by JahXIII

[KeeferE]

Well I think the PvP in this game is fun... This is my first MMO so guess what, I suck at PvP but that does not stop me from playing.... I get rolled by better players all the time and every time that happens I learn a little more on how to use my abilities... If you want to become more skilled in PvP take your lumps, learn from them, and dont listen to the QQs, they will poison your mind on whats wrong with this game... The only thing I wish was better would be adding more WZ or maybe an open world WZ... So take some advice from a new player and learn to grind out the learning process and ask "why did that happen" and not blame it on gear gaps...... That is all...

[FourTwent]

Im sick of hearing this. At lvl 50, when both sides are full WH, then what? Oooo, its back to skill vs skill.

 

bingo

 

but the casuals will ONLY get their recruit gear, spend all their comms on warzone medpacs(to probably sell lol) and then come to the forums and CRY because warhero beats on recruit. OF COURSE THEY DO. gear up to battlemaster, it takes less than a week!!!!

 

nupe, instead they want to QQ all over the forums and preach gear > skill

 

they think they're the righteous one coming to save everyone, but it only shows how bad/casual they really are.

 

 

You think that would fly in PvE?

"Ops are not fair every1 should be equalized when stepping into an Operation to full Rakata or better, it shouldn't matter that I've never run an Operation before... that just means that I need the stat boost more than the people that have run it every week... what's the problem?"

 

 

I'm actually campaigning right now for FREE pve gear when I hit 50. . .or the choice of 300k credits. just like the pvpers get to choose. and I demand that the gear stays updated to just under 20% of whatever the max pve gear is. . .just like they're doing with recruit. it's only fair right?

 

join my campaign for pve recruit gear!!!!

Edited September 15, 2012 by FourTwent

[tacito]

To all the people that say their gear should give them an advantage: I agree. Yes, if you put in a lot of time, you should have an advantage.

 

To all those who compare the current situation to PvE and say "Asking to be bolstered to the best player in the operation is stupid", again, I agree.

 

There's a difference, though. In PvE, you can choose what you want to play and the appropriate difficulty. In PvP, that's not the case - and the reason you hear so many extremely frustrated people around.

 

Anyone saying that a character in recruit gear is remotely useful - please. We both know that's not true. Yes, he can guard a node or something like that, but I can kill a recruit guy in less time than he needs to write "1 east/west". And that's for fast writers.

Also, every recruit player on your team decreases your chance to win something. Sure, on rare occasions the enemy team also has some recruit people, evening the odds. But fact is, a LOT of people actively engaging in PvP are at the very least in Battlemaster gear, and as soon as you see 3 people in recruit gear on your team, you might as well leave the group. True, the well-equipped earned it, but most of the people wearing full WH now didn't grind for it when everyone's already running around in full WH.

 

The gear gap makes the playing experience unpleasant for people new to the 50 bracket in two ways:

• They're constantly killed, without even putting a dent into other players (for most ACs, anyway)
  
• Their own team is at a disadvantage because of them, which fellow team mates are often eager to point out. And not in a nice way
  

So you're permanently dead, unable to kill anyone, and chances are you're getting flamed for your presence.

 

It's like there was only ONE way to gear up for PvE. Come level 50, you can only queue for nightmare Eternity Vault/Karagga's Palace or hardmode Explosive Conflict. What do you say, you're utterly useless, the rest of the group needs to carry you and if there's more than 2 freshmen, you can just call it a night?

Well, true, but look at it this way: If you just kill the first two trash packs often enough (because the third is way too hard for your group), you might get a random drop. So just grind out trash until a few pieces bring your average stats up to columi level, and then you might even get to the first boss!

 

You won't kill it, of course. But you've beaten the trash. And you can tell everyone who's suggesting a system like playfields of tiered difficulty, from story mode flashpoints to nightmare mode operations, that they just need to grind it out. So did you, after all.

 

Edit to the guy above me: Yup, I fully support recruit PvE gear. It wouldn't change much, since you need about 3 days (with an hour or two of play time each) at level 50 to get to columi level and be ready for hardmode operations, but PvE recruit gear really is a great idea.

Edited September 15, 2012 by tacito

[Icestar]

If gear was a minor factor in the gameplay of SWTOR then people would not write about it.

 

Nowdays players even leave the game before it has started because they do not want to play with undergeared players because they think they will lose. This is very easily proven with the log of players leaving before the match starts, sometimes it is one perhaps two or even three.

 

I have done alot of both reading and writing on this PvP forum and I have come to my own personal constructive conclusion:

 

1. "Hardcore" players are simply saying everything is fine, it has nothing to do about gear and thinks that everyone should grind, grind, grind to get the same gear. Skill is something that only hardcore players get and that is usually obtained by going through the grind. This category of players are also the most eager to insult and make assumptions that the writer of the post is a unskilled noob that does not know the difference between a mouse and a keyboard. Thankfully we have fantastic moderators that keeps this forum clean of the worst insults, good work!

 

2. New players thinks PvP is to hard since they are left out on the same arena with already geared players and react with frustration. Some think it is worth going through a grind to get battlemaster and augment it, and some does ofcourse not enjoy getting smashed for a few weeks or a month. Warhero for some is very far away unless they have a good guild and a server that has a good ranked warzone community.

For this playerbase information is the key, it has to be known that tokens can be saved, converted and used at level 50. Thatway the new player at level 50 will be able to get a few good pieces of gear and be more competative then the "pure geared" recruitplayer. It is a wierd system but it is something even I will do with my ninth character when we get new characterslots to play with.

 

Now, Bioware has picked up on some of this by releasing a new recruitgear next patch. It will help ALOT for the new players since the difference between recruit version II and full augmented warhero will be smaller. Good move Bioware!!

 

In time we will probably get those "big servers" where lots of players can sign up and do warzones together, it will improve the ranked warzone community immensely.

 

The next step is to figure out how big difference actually gear should have. we have heard a reasonable statistical difference of 20% and that seems to be a good number. They can keep on releasing new gear until the next decade if they want and still keep players interested in grinding gear aslong it is kept wihin the 20% mark.

 

Some say that this community is dying, that PvP is getting harder to play because less people actually sign up. We can pause for a moment and wonder why? I would basicly say that it is the lack of enjoyment, people has to have a good time while playing and with this system not all do. Hence the community shrinks, badly.

 

I really enjoy this game and I really hope it will get alot of new fun players when SWTOR is F2P, I only hope that Bioware has a plan to keep those playing and paying because that is probably the future of this game if they do or do not.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Icestar

[FourTwent]

If gear was a minor factor in the gameplay of SWTOR then people would not write about it.

 

no, people like to PRETEND gear is a big deal because it makes their ego feel better. again, im not saying recruit can compete with augmented WH. i've never said that. but dont act like you stay in recruit gear forever. it takes a week, MAX to get full battlemaster. and I can promise you, full battlemaster is way less than 20% from WH

 

To all those who compare the current situation to PvE and say "Asking to be bolstered to the best player in the operation is stupid", again, I agree.

 

There's a difference, though. In PvE, you can choose what you want to play and the appropriate difficulty. In PvP, that's not the case - and the reason you hear so many extremely frustrated people around.

 

I do understand what you mean here. The only retort is that if you want to PVP it is very easy to hit level 50 with 2000/3500 capped comms. I mean if so many people love the 10-49 bracket, there's no problem at all right?

 

It comes down to laziness, and I want to be as lazy as they are. Give me my free PvE Recruit gear! and keep it no more than a 20% disparity from the top tier of gear(campaign I think it is now).

Edited September 15, 2012 by FourTwent