Incendiary Missile 1.4

[ZarthMan]

Incendiary Missile's range has been reduced to 10 meters.

 

With its upcoming range reduction in 1.4 this ability seems too expensive on heat (25).

 

Its a mandatory talent for the Pyrotech tree and with the range reduction will lose its niche of setting targets up for rail shots at greater than 10m. While the extra damage never hurts still seems like the heat would be better used elsewhere.

 

Discuss.

[SneiK]

IM has always been 'meh'.

 

I'd go as far as saying that it's not worth it, even at 10m+ range, if you're not at 0 heat, and don't have TSO to pop before.

 

I really fail to see it's function after the change, if FB stays at 10m. You are still better off doing rapids/unload between rail procs, than wasting you're heat on IM. If you IM, and you don't get a proc soon, you'll overheat and that's that then (Rail is our heat management).

 

I think they should lower the heat cost of IM, and lower the DMG if needed (not that it does so much anyway), so it could actually be used in place of FB.

[FeralPug]

IM was a nice "across the court" opener with thermal sensor override. Once the gap is closed, the IM dot + the cylinder dot was a pretty brutal combo, especially with a target below 30% health.

 

Honestly, with the 1.4 changes I will most likely be removing IM from my quickbar. TD will stay, though its function is hampered with the nerf to its range. I will spec out of it most likely.

 

The irony is that the pyro nerf will make the class have an even simpler rotation. I'm a little surprised that they went this route.

 

AP is honestly looking good to me on paper. With a damage and survivability buff it's looking very appealing. Given the fast cooldowns on sprint from inquisitors/consulars and movement buffs to agents, mobility is going to be even more important than ever.

[BanetheDarkLord]

Either using full AP or the "Maverick" (1/22/18) build made months ago by Agoz (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010zZMsrrobckZfhrbzh.2). Either of those 2 could be the switch that many Pyros might make.

[DacRycar]

Either using full AP or the "Maverick" (1/22/18) build made months ago by Agoz (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010zZMsrrobckZfhrbzh.2). Either of those 2 could be the switch that many Pyros might make.

 

Except both of those builds are HORRIBLE for heat management, have no burst and you loose stats without the 6-9% Aim.

[BanetheDarkLord]

Except both of those builds are HORRIBLE for heat management, have no burst and you loose stats without the 6-9% Aim.

 

AP is anything but Horrible for heat management. It's probably the easiest to manage heat in. If you go full AP.

[DacRycar]

AP is anything but Horrible for heat management. It's probably the easiest to manage heat in. If you go full AP.

 

If you go full AP, yes, with High Energy Cell, which you're not in either of these specs. In both "The Maverick" and the second spec you linked you'll be using two high heat abilities (Retractable Blade and Incendiary Missile) with Combustible Gas Cylinder.

 

RB has a poor heat-to-damage ratio. While these specs are not impossible to run (I've done so myself) its not ideal. I found it to be very clunky, unforgiving and prone to overheating. Going a pure AP, preferably a NORSE variant, is a far more favorable and heat friendly build.

Edited September 12, 2012 by DacRycar

[BanetheDarkLord]

If you go full AP, yes, with High Energy Cell, which you're not in either of these specs. In both "The Maverick" and the second spec you linked you'll be using two high heat abilities (Retractable Blade and Incendiary Missile) with Combustible Gas Cylinder.

 

RB has a poor heat-to-damage ratio. While these specs are not impossible to run (I've done so myself) its not ideal. I found it to be very clunky, unforgiving and prone to overheating. Going a pure AP, preferably a NORSE variant, is a far more favorable and heat friendly build.

 

Must've been a misunderstanding, that link was the Maverick build for any new comers that weren't around when people tested out Maverick. I was saying a second build would be a full AP. Anyway, yes Maverick is a very difficult build to use because of the heat management, but it still can be used to some effectiveness like you mentioned.

Edited September 12, 2012 by BanetheDarkLord

[Infalliable]

Incendiary Missile's range has been reduced to 10 meters.

 

With its upcoming range reduction in 1.4 this ability seems too expensive on heat (25).

 

Its a mandatory talent for the Pyrotech tree and with the range reduction will lose its niche of setting targets up for rail shots at greater than 10m. While the extra damage never hurts still seems like the heat would be better used elsewhere.

 

Discuss.

 

Yeah, it does feel like it looses most of its usefulness. It was always lackluster as a damage skill w/o TSO in my opinion. Once you're within 10 m, you have much better options that are spammable and cost less heat.

 

These changes also mean that rail shot has (essentially) been reduced to a 10m ranged skill as well. You have no reliable way of proc'ing the conditions for it now outside of 10m. You may occasionally get rapid shots to proc it, but your goal is always going to be to put yourself in a position where you don't need to use rapid shots (as its damage stinks).

 

What always made powertechs unique was their ability to function at range or melee. Melee was always better, but you had options. These changes pretty much just make them another melee (<10m) only class.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Infalliable

[Xandole]

I have been using a 8/5/28 build i ended up with back in Jan. I play a VG but the same rules apply, its not bad on ammo/heat on a ST dps rotation of IR/HiB/FA/SS/HS (PT- IM/RS/Unload/rocket punch/(general attack)) w/ using ion pulse as needed for the HIB reset. I rarely get below 50% ammo on HM/NiM bosses with this rotation.

 

My biggest concern if this 1.4 change takes place is not for PvE content but for PvP content, with no way for a DPS build to get into melee range we will just become "cannon fodder". The Pyrotech/Assault VG isnt set up for straight melee combat, it has been since birth a sort of hybrid of melee and ranged. The tactics (middle VG tree) skill set is designed more maintaining and getting into melee range. It looks great until you try it out, the DPS:Ammo Usage ratio is straight up junk.

 

I would only suggest that if the dev's are dead set on making this proposed 1.4 nerf that they take the charge ability out of the tank set and make it a standard VG/PT skill, give us a knock back ability and a [25% threat/agro dump skill on a CD (for PvE)] .

[DacRycar]

1. Disagree with the knockback (nothing I hate more than to have the target I'm winding up for a Stockstrike to be knocked away 10 meters).

 

2. Agree with the Storm/Jet Charge as a standard ability for all Vanguards/Powertechs.

 

3. Why are you using Full Auto in your rotation?!

 

There are far better abilities to use with that global cooldown than Full Auto! It doesn't benefit us as much as it does our Commando kin. Use it only situationally (i.e. when DPSing outside of an AoE or when an Assassin pops Shroud) or when trolling people (see my signature below)

Edited September 13, 2012 by DacRycar

[Xandole]

i am using an 8/5/28 build so dont have AP atm and just recently worked full auto into my rotation because of the 15s CD, its more of a visual marker to let me know how much cook time IR has left for recast. with AP i would work it the same way replacing FA with AP as a visual marker to keep IR on all the time. Generally just to help prevent over using IR and burning ammo unnecessarily during ops boss fights were i have to frequently change targets or maneuver around the mechanics. I rarely fall below 40% ammo this way and can keep the DoTs stacked on the boss even if I am on a different target. Depending on the situation i will sometimes use a sticky grenade for the same visual marker reasons, i.e. the toth and zorn fight where you have to move around avoiding the stone spikes, or the tanks when you have to take cover under a barrier. the other reason for the FA is because it helps with aggro control since BW deciding on not giving us any type of aggro dump. Its just an effective way to control threat generation while maximizing DPS/Ammo usage. Edited September 13, 2012 by Xandole

[DacRycar]

i am using an 8/5/28 build so dont have AP atm and just recently worked full auto into my rotation because of the 15s CD....

 

There are better rotations for you to use to maximize your damage, keep your ammo high and your threat low.

[SneiK]

Unload is great as a Pyro.

 

While not being a main filler ability:

 

It's exactly 3 seconds (exactly what the pyro needs to wait between rail procs)

 

Heat efficient (16, but 3 seconds)

 

Good damage (Pretty much a quaranteed DoT proc, coupled with good damage, againt non tank targets)

 

It will be even more crucial in 1.4.

 

Not using it in PvP, you are just trolling yourself.

 

Now, wasn't this thread about the IM?

 

PS. Please use the appropriate talent names (Powertech), or stick to you own forums, Troopers.

[DacRycar]

Unload is great as a Pyro.

 

While not being a main filler ability:

 

It's exactly 3 seconds (exactly what the pyro needs to wait between rail procs)

 

Heat efficient (16, but 3 seconds)

 

Good damage (Pretty much a quaranteed DoT proc, coupled with good damage, againt non tank targets)

 

It will be even more crucial in 1.4.

 

Not using it in PvP, you are just trolling yourself.

 

Now, wasn't this thread about the IM?

 

PS. Please use the appropriate talent names (Powertech), or stick to you own forums, Troopers.

 

So much wrong in this post...

 

...as for sticking to our own forums, all I have to stay is this.

[nDjiin]

Except both of those builds are HORRIBLE for heat management, have no burst and you loose stats without the 6-9% Aim.

 

And no PTF.

 

Unload is great as a Pyro.

 

While not being a main filler ability:

 

It's exactly 3 seconds (exactly what the pyro needs to wait between rail procs)

 

Heat efficient (16, but 3 seconds)

 

Good damage (Pretty much a quaranteed DoT proc, coupled with good damage, againt non tank targets)

 

It will be even more crucial in 1.4.

 

Not using it in PvP, you are just trolling yourself.

 

Now, wasn't this thread about the IM?

 

PS. Please use the appropriate talent names (Powertech), or stick to you own forums, Troopers.

 

Anyone who uses Unload needs to have a good look at their rotation - if there is a time that you need to be using a ranged attack you shouldn't be standing still and using a 3 sec cast but moving into position to use higher DPS abilities (whilst using Rapid Fire - which tbh is just almost as good and has no heat cost).

 

Lastly IM wont ever be used again if the 'current' update goes ahead unchanged.

Edited September 17, 2012 by nDjiin

[SneiK]

You ever PvP'd?

 

And Dac, you coming from an RP-PvE server and all, all I can say, is what I said before:

 

100% crit will mean, that it cannot be shielded.

 

Rail Shot is a [Ranged] ability and therefore can be shielded, deflected and dodged. "No offense" but you need to check your toolbars more often.

 

Please, for the love of god, stop posting on the PT forums. You are making us look as bad, as most people think we are.

 

But now I realize, you are doing a valuable job in making sure, that 95% of powertechs will always stay as bad, as people think we all are. Keep up the good work, really good tips you have had there.

 

Have fun.

Edited September 17, 2012 by SneiK

[Reviaj]

Incendiary Missile will be completely useless at 10m, there will be no point of using it as a PT.

 

Without a gap closer (a proper one), if we reach our 10m PEW PEW distance, waste a GCD on IM before they kit you instead of TD or FB will be probably suicidal. Pity we have to spend points on it no matter what

 

Lol SneiK where was that discussion with Dac about shielding crits? What post was it? I missed some laughs

 

P.S: I've never posted before, but I've been always coming and reading, I've just decided to join the fun

[FeralPug]

You ever PvP'd?

 

And Dac, you coming from an RP-PvE server and all, all I can say, is what I said before:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But now I realize, you are doing a valuable job in making sure, that 95% of powertechs will always stay as bad, as people think we all are. Keep up the good work, really good tips you have had there.

 

Have fun.

 

Just want to stand up for my server buddy Azhandra: he's a superb PT. We've played matches against each other many times.

 

I'd also like to say that server type means nothing. PVP is not better on a PVP server, and might actually be worse. On The Ebon Hawk we have an extremely competitive and active PVP scene. I'd put our best PVP guilds/players up against any in the game. If/when cross server ranked PVP comes to SWTOR, I believe ELO will bear this out.

 

Personally, unload is not even on my toolbar anymore. It is a low damaging ability that is inturruptable and I'd just as soon as do rapid shots on the move than stand there and channel an unload. This will change in 1.4. In 1.4 I see it as an important way to engage a target from a distance.

[DacRycar]

Just want to stand up for my server buddy Azhandra: he's a superb Vanguard. We've played matches against each other many times.

 

Thanks, Jerc!

 

I'm entertained that my one momentary lapse of sanity (forgetting crits can't be shielded) has caused someone so much rage and anger. Or perhaps its because I'm a Vanguard on the Powertech forums here to learn and discuss what is essentially the same class. /trollface

 

Incendiary Missile will be completely useless at 10m, there will be no point of using it as a PT.

 

Without a gap closer (a proper one), if we reach our 10m PEW PEW distance, waste a GCD on IM before they kit you instead of TD or FB will be probably suicidal. Pity we have to spend points on it no matter what

 

I still see it as viable for PvE content, especially for any progressive ops groups willing to keep their PTs come 1.4... unless they give us a gap closer.

Edited September 17, 2012 by DacRycar

[Reviaj]

Thanks, Jerc!

 

I still see it as viable for PvE content, especially for any progressive ops groups willing to keep their PTs come 1.4... unless they give us a gap closer.

 

Uuuum yeah I should have been more specific, I was talking about PvP (only thing I do), in PvP I don't see any reason to use IM at 10m, it will be everything but efficient

 

If we don't get the gap closer (and it doesn't look like it), AP is more fun

[DacRycar]

Uuuum yeah I should have been more specific, I was talking about PvP (only thing I do), in PvP I don't see any reason to use IM at 10m, it will be everything but efficient

 

If we don't get the gap closer (and it doesn't look like it), AP is more fun

 

I'm a heavy PvPer myself, but we can't forget that any changes that affect us also affect those among us who prefer PvE or both. If you want to have a debate on topics like this, you need to see clearly from both perspectives.

[SneiK]

Just want to stand up for my server buddy Azhandra: he's a superb PT. We've played matches against each other many times.

 

I'd also like to say that server type means nothing. PVP is not better on a PVP server, and might actually be worse. On The Ebon Hawk we have an extremely competitive and active PVP scene. I'd put our best PVP guilds/players up against any in the game. If/when cross server ranked PVP comes to SWTOR, I believe ELO will bear this out.

 

Personally, unload is not even on my toolbar anymore. It is a low damaging ability that is inturruptable and I'd just as soon as do rapid shots on the move than stand there and channel an unload. This will change in 1.4. In 1.4 I see it as an important way to engage a target from a distance.

 

Have you played on many server types then, or where do you get this information? I had one character in an RP-PvP realm, which I played with my friend there, and from my experience, the overall skill level of the players were much lower, than the PvP realm I'm in now, and was before the merges. That doesn't mean, that the top players would not be equal, but as far as the overall feeling I had, there were much more bads. Now, these days, you could be completely right, as I feel that pretty much every good PvPer has left the game/server, and RP realms seem to hold people better. There are some, but only a few. Today, I saw a really good Sniper. Not by scoreboard, but by actually facing him. He played the class to it's full potential, something I've rarely seen in this game (I dunno, less than 10 times), and something even I rarely bother to do (with no rateds going on).

 

Low damaging ability? Please check your bar again. It does more DMG than two Rapid Shots, has more chances to Crit, and has more chances to apply a DoT, in situations, where the Rapid Shots cannot (Assassin f.e. You cannot DoT them while tech immunity is on, but you can, with some luck with unload at the end, giving you the ability to Rail right after that). Also, it's better you soak an interrupt on your Unload, than your healer. That's why no one will waste their interrupt on your pitiful Unload. Yes, in that context, it is pitiful. If you can afford the Heat, which is really minor (if you can't afford it, then all you're left with is Rapids), and can afford to be stationary, it is better than Rapids, and with some situations with Heat, better than anything else. There is a lot of situations, where these are true. Also, Unload benefits from Rain of Fire, so I don't see how removing it from you bar, makes you a 'superb' PT (Pyro at least).

 

As I said, only Pyros really hit hard with Unload (Due to talents from the tree, and the CGC heavy DoT + Snare). As a Shield Tech, it's much less useful, and it's almost completely useless in AP HEGC.

 

As I pointed out, it's not an ability you use all the time, but it has it's uses, and if you don't have it on your bar, you are going to fail on situations where it would've been great. That's not being a superb PT.

 

But again, back to the topic:

 

IM 1.4:

 

PvP - No meaning in PvP. It costs too much, is bound to be cleansed, rendering the DMG output useless (which was damn low to begin with). The only function IM had, was to allow Rail over 10 meters reliably.

 

PvE - I can't say, I don't PvE.

 

You can debate from both the PvE, and the PvP perspective, but you cannot mix the two. You have to allow PvP-only players to debate solely from a PvP perspective, as you do for PvE-only players. As long as they don't separate PvP and PvE gameplay, the changes have to fit both the PvE, and the PvP. PvP-only players will have a better judgment on PvP side of things, while PvE-only players will have a better view of the PvE side of things. If you do both, you can try to view both sides, but don't think Jack of All Trades is always better.

Edited September 23, 2012 by SneiK

[Kusanami]

And the other use for IM was to prevent false procs of the the Prototype rail shot.

[SneiK]

This is true, after 1.2.

 

Tho it wasn't really very good at that, without TSO to pop before, you were most likely better of fishing a DoT proc with Rails/Unload.

 

In some small battles, where the target(s) could not cleanse DoTs too much, the DMG is also there on the backround. It's minor, but everything counts.