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Rage being BUFFED, Immortal/Vengeance not being touched

wadecounty

By wadecounty
in Guardian / Juggernaut

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wadecounty

wadecounty

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here's all the Juggernaut changes in 1.4.

 

Juggernaut

 

 

Rage (Juggernaut)

 

Overpower has been redesigned. It now gives Assault, Sundering Assault, Vicious Slash, Force Scream, and Vicious Throw a 50% chance per point to reduce the active cooldown of Smash and Obliterate by .5 seconds per point.

 

Brutality now additionally affects Vicious Throw.

 

Saber Strength now additionally affects Vicious Throw.

 

Shockwave: Stacks of Shockwave now additionally reduce the Rage cost of Smash by 12.5% per point per stack.

 

Empowering Rage now causes Enrage to generate 2 additional Rage per point.

 

Shii-Cho Mastery: Armor penetration has been increased to 15% per point.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523625

 

So basically, Smash every 9 seconds or so, free with 4 stacks of Shockwave, AND a more powerful Vicious Throw that crits more often, AND 10 rage when you pop Enrage (and a free smash thanks to shockwave).

 

As a fan of Vengeance who already felt we were Rage Jugg's gimpy little brother... this hurts. I suppose these changes are being made to make Rage competitive as a PvE spec, but in terms of PvP, it now blows Vengeance out of the water, and you'd be nuts not to play Rage come 1.4.

Edited by wadecounty
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CBRGhostRider

CBRGhostRider

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At least they didn't nerf immortal inadvertently, like they have been doing... I can still tank in my 18/23 I guess, so I should be thankful for that.

 

On the positive side, with the free smashes (w/ 4 shockwaves) I can run smash spec in soresu from time to time and not have issues with rage, and still be tanky. Of course, those of you who run it in shii-cho seem to have got really good buffs!

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JamieM

JamieM

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Here's all the Juggernaut changes in 1.4.

...

As a fan of Vengeance who already felt we were Rage Jugg's gimpy little brother... this hurts. I suppose these changes are being made to make Rage competitive as a PvE spec, but in terms of PvP, it now blows Vengeance out of the water, and you'd be nuts not to play Rage come 1.4.

 

Annoyed by these changes personally but I understand them from a populist angle: the only possible reason I can see for them is to pander to PvP Juggs who cba to respec for PvE - after all did Rage Juggs really need a buff in PvP? Let's face it, the vast majority of players who play DPS Juggs at the mo only do so for PvP, so this incentivises them to try high level PvE content without feeling the need to respec to Vengeance to be competitive, and therefore probably makes them more likely to subscribe to the game come F2P in November. It's depressing because Rage spec is a crappy gimmick-led playstyle that I tried once and instantly hated, so I hope these don't make it the new FOTM spec for PvE.

Edited by JamieM
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wadecounty

wadecounty

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Annoyed by these changes personally but I understand them from a populist angle: the only possible reason I can see for them is to pander to PvP Juggs who cba to respec for PvE - after all did Rage Juggs really need a buff in PvP? Let's face it, the vast majority of players who play DPS Juggs at the mo only do so for PvP, so this incentivises them to try high level PvE content without feeling the need to respec to Vengeance to be competitive, and therefore probably makes them more likely to subscribe to the game come F2P in November. It's depressing because Rage spec is a crappy gimmick-led playstyle that I tried once and instantly hated, so I hope these don't make it the new FOTM spec for PvE.

 

Personally I think Vengeance is still going to be at least as good even after these changes, if not still maintain a slight edge, in PvE. Even with the changes, Rage is going to be very dependent on its burst, while Vengeance is more bleed based, and bleed based builds always work better in PvE fights with heavy movement involved.

 

Still, for PvP... ouch. Rage was absolutely dominant pre 1.2, and this is taking it to pre 1.2 levels and beyond. You get your 9 second Smash back, the only important thing taken away in 1.2.... (granted you have to work for it but it will come naturally in most rotations), you gain Enrage Shockwave stacks that you didn't have before, you get massive gains on Rage management thanks to free Smashes, and you gain a nice buff to your execute.

 

Vengeance had 3 advantages on Rage in PvP, rage management, a better execute (auto crit Vicious Throw) and Unstoppable. 2 of those 3 advantages are gone in 1.4, all we have left is Unstoppable, meaning its better left to hybrid tank Juggs than anyone who wants to bother DPSing.

 

Oh and the icing on the cake, Shi-cho gets an armor pen bonus from 20% to 30%. sigh

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Dhariq

Dhariq

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I was personally hoping for some more aggro on my full tank spec Juggernaut since it is inferior to my Sin by a large margin, but well not this time it seems.

 

Cutting Backhand cd in half and making Crushing Blow always affect 2 extra targets would probably solve it and give us the added "snap" aoe aggro that I have on the Sin with Wither + Discharge.

I suppose not many really miss Crushing Blow when they spec hybrid and that fact alone should be enough to prove that the top Immortal ability is far from impressive.

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CBRGhostRider

CBRGhostRider

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I suppose not many really miss Crushing Blow when they spec hybrid and that fact alone should be enough to prove that the top Immortal ability is far from impressive.

 

Precisely. Stop hoping for Biofail to fix a garbage tree. Just spec immortal/vengeance and be the unkillable buttball carrier in warzones. Or get consistent 300k+ protection (and even 450+ protection) in other wzs.

 

With Biofail, no news is good news, and as long as they don't f**k with my 18/23 build I will be happy.

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i_noface_i

i_noface_i

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From playing Rage for so long now I really was hoping they would buff vengeance, I was close to moving back to veng, But now I was seen the changes they are making in Rage I got all excited like a kid at Christmas, Its going to be nice to be OP for a while, The dmg I now now is crazy, Good times ahead.

 

 

One of the main things I missed from veng was the fast game play, for rage I had to learn to slow myself down and master timings, Now i am just going to go nuts :)

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Krozis

Krozis

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No one really mentions this but what I'm looking forward to is not being so resource starved that I'm not using anything other than the basic Rage rotation.

 

Like I've said, it would be fun to use something else.... like Viscous Slash once in a while, but there's been no point, or resources available to... until 1.4.

 

So I'm really looking forward to expanding the rotation.

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Rynis

Rynis

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No one really mentions this but what I'm looking forward to is not being so resource starved that I'm not using anything other than the basic Rage rotation.

 

Judging by this video you probably won't be resource starved! LOL

 

Also, with smash hitting sooner...I wonder if you will still be able to counter with a smart knockback?

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CBRGhostRider

CBRGhostRider

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Judging by this video you probably won't be resource starved! LOL

 

Also, with smash hitting sooner...I wonder if you will still be able to counter with a smart knockback?

 

LMAO, I knew that berserk for rage maras makes vicious slash free, but that is quite ridiculous. Of course, in Bioware's books everything is fine, while at the same time soresu juggernauts starve heavily for rage due to the ridiculous penalty.

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Marqhill

Marqhill

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Here's all the Juggernaut changes in 1.4.

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523625

 

So basically, Smash every 9 seconds or so, free with 4 stacks of Shockwave, AND a more powerful Vicious Throw that crits more often, AND 10 rage when you pop Enrage (and a free smash thanks to shockwave).

 

As a fan of Vengeance who already felt we were Rage Jugg's gimpy little brother... this hurts. I suppose these changes are being made to make Rage competitive as a PvE spec, but in terms of PvP, it now blows Vengeance out of the water, and you'd be nuts not to play Rage come 1.4.

 

This is too funny. I think I actually made the same exact post in the Guardian forum almost verbatim. The funny thing is that they forgot to mention that the Empowering Rage/Inner Focus ability also reduces the cool down of Enrage/Combat Focus by 20 seconds. So you'll be able to pop this ability every 20 seconds. It's not listed in the patch notes but it's there on the PTS. My 50 Guardian got copied over. This is totally a thing.

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CellPerfect

CellPerfect

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Judging by this video you probably won't be resource starved! LOL

 

Also, with smash hitting sooner...I wonder if you will still be able to counter with a smart knockback?

 

lol gotta love being able to gain 3 rage from VS rather than losing 3 haha. I leveled as rage by doing this and it was freaking nice along with the massive aoe crit.

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Krozis

Krozis

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That is pretty funny, but speaking as Juggernaut, Viscous Slash has always been really 'blah' no matter the spec. It might actually get use now!

 

I also think the Juggernaut variant of Rage has always felt very squishy... squishier than the Marauder/Sentinel variant because Juggs only have the single shield compared to the 3 inherent shields Marauder have, plus going invis.

 

I don' t -think- that part is going to change. But the resource management has always been a PITA for Juggs and this should be solved.

 

But back to the topic, I agree Veng really needs something.... those pathetic bleeds... they just pale compared to Annihilator spec Mara's. But I think it is a 'fun' tree but very underwhelming in PVP.

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Kaenisse

Kaenisse

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I really enjoy vengeance, and our guild hasn't gotten a good rated team up yet (still gearing everyone up), so I've stuck with that. However I've had this nagging feeling that when we did finally start doing rated, I would have to switch to rage to be viable...and I was PRAYING 1.4 would change that...all it's done is convince me that switching to rage is the best option. Assuming of course all those changes make it to live.
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JamieM

JamieM

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But back to the topic, I agree Veng really needs something.... those pathetic bleeds... they just pale compared to Annihilator spec Mara's. But I think it is a 'fun' tree but very underwhelming in PVP.

 

I absolutely agree - for a very long time Vengeance has needed something to make the tree reliably competitive, whether it be slightly upping the bleed damage or making our Ravage damage less based on chance and more on successful execution, or through some other mechanic. Sometimes I can have a good day and parse ~1650 on the Operation dummy but others where my rotation/priority system is identical but my Ravage procs are low and I only manage 1500/1550, whereas a lesser geared Annihilation Marauder can reliably get 1700/1800. It's very disheartening after all the effort, time and money put in to mini/max to get the most out of your character, to find out that you are simply hamstrung, not by your own gameplay shortcomings, but by arbitrary design limitations. Whichever Dev said that all DPS ACs could all produce max damage within 5% of each other was dead wrong.

Edited by JamieM
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Elyx

Elyx

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the only real thing this does for me is make Rage possibly viable enough in PvE to try out. I think Vengeance will still hold top PvE quite well (the bleeds may be small, but they add up over a long fight, especially those with movement). but if Rage holds up it would be worth respeccing so i can enjoy those uber smashes you guys get when I solo :)

 

Vengeance was pretty well off anyways...Only thing I though they should have done was make the 4pc a talent, and give us something worth using the 4 piece set for. Saber chucking should be 0 range...its our only real ranged ability, and its damage is incomparable with most other ranged skills. no reason why it SHOULDN'T be melee-30m. that and immortal could use the boost.

 

Immortal is almost salt in the wound at this point...I get the same feeling when I have t spec into immortal to tank as I do every-time i write the check for my Ex... This grating feeling of frustration that I simply have to accept cause I'm not going to be able to change it. I just wish I enjoyed the Assassin/Shadow more as a tank. Leveling a PT ATM to try that out, Im enjoying it, but they're hitting them pretty hard in this patch too (though it doesn't impact their tank spec that much).

 

And I ONLY play PvE, so take the above with that in mind.

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