Spatology Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 One of the criticisms about this game is how sterile it is, the worlds have no life. They look like the background paintings in the Original Trilogy, that is how lifeless they are. Day/Night cycles and rain would have helped add that life. Even in the movies you see different weather conditions, whether it is a drizzling rain or a downpour, a dust storm, or a blizzard. Even George understood that weather helps set a mood. The only effect I have ever seen weather have in a game is setting the mood and visibility. It adds atmosphere (which this game severely lacks). Now day/night cycles could impact some quests, but EQ/EQ2 used a 2hr 24mins for a full 24hr cycle, which means 1 hour and 12 mins if you were completely off. I don't know if that would be a bad thing for trying to make such a sterile environment have some sort of life. I prefer not having issues with weather causeing lag or visibility issues. I also don't want to have to run around on Taris at night, this is a very scary thought for me personally. The game has plenty of atmosphere, try speaking to other people and doing stuff with others. EQ1/2 where very much a "go off and have your own adventure questing in the world" type games. The game moved faster if you grinded exp with friends, but you also had the ability to go kite mobs around or just explore. I'm personally done with all that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilim Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The sandstorms on Tatooine were not that great, please stop with this. People moaned about the random laggy rain in swg all the time now it's people's fond memories. Please give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahdasz Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Yeah I can see this now, people will end up having to change their graphics settings to reduce lag caused by environmental issues and then complain when they have stuck in the air rain and featureless distances... again. Night/day cycle didn't seem to make SWG lag much, but if your machine was just cutting it you got screwed when it rained hard or got stuck in a sand storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Well, first of all, the devs said that they purposely avoided weather and day-night cycles so they could go all out with the art for the planets. They didn't want changing shadows and environmental effects to mess up the look they were going for for each world. Secondly, even if they did do this, not only is it not easy, it's not as easy as it is with other games either because they have to do it separately for each individual world. The day-night cycle on Tatooine can't be the same as the day-night cycle on Koriban. Also, they would have to take the planets' individual rotations and orbits into account. For instance, Drommund Kaas is in a geosynchronous orbit with it's sun. They would have to find a way to exempt that world from all day-night changes in order to do it right. Now imagine trying to do weather and whatnot and have everything timed differently and set differently for every single place in the game. This would be a tremendous undertaking and it is not likely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The sandstorms on Tatooine were not that great, please stop with this. People moaned about the random laggy rain in swg all the time now it's people's fond memories. Please give me a break. I wasn't talking about SWG. That game's weather system had problems, other games have done it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Well, first of all, the devs said that they purposely avoided weather and day-night cycles so they could go all out with the art for the planets. They didn't want changing shadows and environmental effects to mess up the look they were going for for each world. Secondly, even if they did do this, not only is it not easy, it's not as easy as it is with other games either because they have to do it separately for each individual world. The day-night cycle on Tatooine can't be the same as the day-night cycle on Koriban. Also, they would have to take the planets' individual rotations and orbits into account. For instance, Drommund Kaas is in a geosynchronous orbit with it's sun. They would have to find a way to exempt that world from all day-night changes in order to do it right. Now imagine trying to do weather and whatnot and have everything timed differently and set differently for every single place in the game. This would be a tremendous undertaking and it is not likely to happen. This. Unless they customize every single planet to fit the established lore of Star Wars it will come across as a cheap gimmick that sucked money away from new quests, planets, and other content we want. On planets like Hoth (as someone previously mentioned) weather and day/night would have to restrict when you quest (read the planet is so inhospitable you would freeze to death at night and thus can't quest) or else come across as a shoddy job that makes the world just as "sterile" as some people perceive it now. I for one would rather have more quests, planets, and content than something that is visually interesting but would suck up so much time to do right that we would have to go through a serious drought of any new content we could actually play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPCummerbund Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Well, first of all, the devs said that they purposely avoided weather and day-night cycles so they could go all out with the art for the planets. They didn't want changing shadows and environmental effects to mess up the look they were going for for each world.: I think it's funny that they think they went "all out" in the worlds they have. Visually, I think SWTOR is very boring. Sure, the planets all look different from each other. But one part on a planet looks pretty much like any other part on that planet. Day / Night cycles would make it more interesting. It would break up the monotony of seeing the same scenery over and over again every day while you're on a planet. I keep hearing about the "Art Department" and how so many ideas came from there. It seems to me that's where BW screwed up. The art department would paint some pretty pictures of what the worlds were SUPPOSED to look like, with the proper lighting for their paintings and such. Then, they passed the drawings on to the actual programmers, who had to work with the game's restrictions to try to make the game look like that painting, which didn't work. Whatever minor details were evident in the paintings got lost in translation. It's like the game only has 16 colors, but they hired an interior decorator who decided to paint a room using 256 different shades of Taupe, Ivory, Desert, and whatever. Then, when that art got put in, it all just turned into one dull beige blob. For those who haven't played LOTRO, you should try it. Check out the graphics (which can look good on pretty much any computer), day/night cycles, interesting variations in landscape, shimmering water, the lighting (especially at night, like the swamps with flickering flames), and so many other things. It's just beautiful. I like SWTOR for its playability, the companions, the cutscenes, and the stories, but visually it can't hold a candle (pun intended) to LOTRO. Edited September 10, 2012 by DPCummerbund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Kabong Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Unless they desync the cycle from the server time and give Taris an eighteen-hour day and Alderaan a thirty-hour one, or whatever, but then you'd need some kind of in-game world clock or something. Stick a big dynamic signboard up in the Fleet cantina that tells you it's dawn on Hoth and lunchtime on Voss. Though I bet players still wouldn't care for the essentially unpredictable nature of it. Do it like how CoH did - the day was greatly compressed. It took about an hour (perhaps a touch less) for it to completely cycle from day to night and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikrouDeco Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) It would have made sense to have day/night cycles, but for some reason they opted out of putting them in. There is probably a decent reason, in addition to engine limitations - for example, you cannot be outside on Hoth at night according to the films. On the other hand, it would have made the planets more engaging and visually appealing. Taris would have been really spooky at night. In addition, it may have allowed for having different questing missions available at night, a sort of alternate side quest leveling path. Can you imagine this, they add Dathomir and it's broad daylight and sunny? *UGH* Oh and for the record, I do know what would be involved. I sit waste deep in code daily. Edited September 10, 2012 by SikrouDeco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Doubt it, and personally I hope it doesn't (for performance issues). There's no performance hit with day/night cycle - every MMORPG has it (but SWTOR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 "Shadows baked into the textures" is a nice way of putting it. For performance sake this game does not render proper light and shade. Thanks to the inferior game engine. So just about all the lighting and shadows in the environment is faked. You wont find a single silhouette anywhere. So is that actually the REAL reason they didn't do Day/Night cycles (dispite every MMORPG having it)? Because the engine couldn't handle it? I'm beginning to wonder if there actually IS anything this engine CAN handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagidar Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Although I would LOVE to see this added, it adds more atmosphere to the game, it is definately NOT gamebreaking, there are other things in this game that I would imagine need to be attended to first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Bioware forgot they were designing an MMO, where it's supposed to be about OUR story, not theirs. Where did you get that vibe from my post? Please don't twist my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Bioware forgot they were designing an MMO, where it's supposed to be about OUR story, not theirs. Where did you get that vibe from my post? You don't need to get that vibe from your post, you can tell that we are suppose to enjoy their story and not ours simply because nothing we do affects the story at all. No matter what choices you make, you get the same exact questline as every other person who played that class. You are experiencing their story and can't change it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If weather and day/night cycles are added, a group of people will complain that it isn't accurate and leave, and then more people will leave because they feel insecure about people leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahdasz Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If weather and day/night cycles are added, a group of people will complain that it isn't accurate and leave, and then more people will leave because they feel insecure about people leaving. LOL! it' funny 'cuz it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Adding a lightsorce that moves is not as simple as you might think. Things would look wonky if the world was not designed for it. Many objects in the game would have to be adjusted to absorb and reflect light differently. Some textures would have to be redone so that faked shadows and highlights were removed. Don't expect bioware to do this, ever. It is a design choice that was made early on. It is way to much work to go back now and change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricktur Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 honestly, im never on a planet long enough to enjoy weather effects even if there were weather effects. i agree though, it would be nice, it would make the planets more dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikrouDeco Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Adding a lightsorce that moves is not as simple as you might think. Things would look wonky if the world was not designed for it. Many objects in the game would have to be adjusted to absorb and reflect light differently. Some textures would have to be redone so that faked shadows and highlights were removed. Don't expect bioware to do this, ever. It is a design choice that was made early on. It is way to much work to go back now and change it. They must be using an obscure engine then, most have it as a feature? Or so I'm told.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 They must be using an obscure engine then, most have it as a feature? Or so I'm told.. The Hero Engine can do it, at least the current finished version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaporKux Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It would be nice to see day/night and some rain once and a while. I remember in SWG how sometimes if we was talking outside in a group and it would start to rain we'd all run for cover lol! As if we was really getting wet!! Funny thinking about it now. It does make a difference to the game. That's just the way I feel anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) One of the criticisms about this game is how sterile it is, the worlds have no life. They look like the background paintings in the Original Trilogy, that is how lifeless they are. Day/Night cycles and rain would have helped add that life. Even in the movies you see different weather conditions, whether it is a drizzling rain or a downpour, a dust storm, or a blizzard. Even George understood that weather helps set a mood. The only effect I have ever seen weather have in a game is setting the mood and visibility. It adds atmosphere (which this game severely lacks). Now day/night cycles could impact some quests, but EQ/EQ2 used a 2hr 24mins for a full 24hr cycle, which means 1 hour and 12 mins if you were completely off. I don't know if that would be a bad thing for trying to make such a sterile environment have some sort of life. And any good storyteller will tell you that things like that are all added to set the tone for that point in the story. Weather does set the mood, but random effects do not. There was a reason a sandstorm appeared on Tat in Ep1; there was a reason why we watched night fall on Hoth in Ep5; there was also a reason we saw nary a drop of rain the whole time we were on the forest moon of Endor in Ep6 - even though that moon clearly gets it quite often. The reason all those effects and "mood-generators" were (or were not present) in those scenes was because it advanced or was (wasn't in the case of absence) to the story the scene was trying to tell at the time. Time cycles and changing weather events are completely unnecessary to the stories being told for each character on each planet they visit. Again, time and money better spent creating more of the story then unnecessary scenery - the old saying goes, some times less is more. It would be nice to see day/night and some rain once and a while. I remember in SWG how sometimes if we was talking outside in a group and it would start to rain we'd all run for cover lol! As if we was really getting wet!! Funny thinking about it now. It does make a difference to the game. That's just the way I feel anyway. And that may make complete sense in a Sandbox game like SWG was where player reaction and interaction drives the content. It's makes less sense in a themepark oriented game where storytelling is the driving factor. The bottom line is, when I go to my favorite themepark the changes I want to see are the addition of more rides and attactions. That's why I am going there, to enjoy the "content" they have built at the park. Would changing all the paint colors on the building and putting flashy designs in the pavement enhance the "atmosphere" at the park - for some, no doubt it will. But when it comes down to making a decision where the choice comes between adding "atmosphere" and adding "content", then the latter wins out every time for me at the themepark. BJ Edited September 20, 2012 by BJWyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPCummerbund Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And any good storyteller will tell you that things like that are all added to set the tone for that point in the story. Weather does set the mood, but random effects do not. There was a reason a sandstorm appeared on Tat in Ep1; there was a reason why we watched night fall on Hoth in Ep5; there was also a reason we saw nary a drop of rain the whole time we were on the forest moon of Endor in Ep6 - even though that moon clearly gets it quite often. The reason all those effects and "mood-generators" were (or were not present) in those scenes was because it advanced or was (wasn't in the case of absence) to the story the scene was trying to tell at the time. Time cycles and changing weather events are completely unnecessary to the stories being told for each character on each planet they visit. Again, time and money better spent creating more of the story then unnecessary scenery - the old saying goes, some times less is more. I totally agree with you about how weather sets the mood, but random effects do not, but you're also wrong. I played WoW and LOTRO and many of my favorite quests were tied to specific weather or daytime effects. For example, one quest could only be done when it was dark and foggy, others could only be done during daylight hours, etc. I think Taris would be a great place for that - Rakghouls could be scarce during the day, but come out in swarms at night. As others have said, it's probably too late now, but it has been done in other games before, and quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digimanbyte_ID Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 No. I love it when people say "It can't be hard". You have any idea what goes into making it like that? Clearly not. Just because another game does it does not make it easy. It has to be planned that way from the start. Shadows are baked into the textures in this game, and while I haven't played lotro, I bet they are not baked in that game. This is a time consuming process and would require a huge effort to change. Sorta agree, but not for performance issues as those can be fixed, and obviously ignored and not be applied. Its more of a lack of lore information, not to mention how each systems time zones would work. Think about it you could be in a bright world during its morning hours then travel to a dark one during night. Not to mention the fact how long a day is to a planet. It could take weeks. Finally its the atmosphere of the world your playing in that would be more closely effected during game time. Wouldn't make sense to see bright lights of laser beams being shot out every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NasherUK Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) If you want to see a well implimented day/night cycle try planetside 2. It's probably THE best ever done. But it only works so well because they use a very good lighting and shadow system (even the clouds cast ground shadows). But then PS2 is pushing the boundries of modern technology, while EA are to scared to take any risks with their MMOs. Edited September 20, 2012 by NasherUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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