DPS Sorcs/sages poll, 1.4 changes good or bad?

[Larry_Dallas]

That 17/19/18 spec, with its root-proof 10 second sprints, aoe stuns and instant 30 meter cc sounds wonderful. It'll be awesome once the level cap gets raised to 63.

[UGLYMRJ]

That 17/19/18 spec, with its root-proof 10 second sprints, aoe stuns and instant 30 meter cc sounds wonderful. It'll be awesome once the level cap gets raised to 63.

 

LOL... all sarcasm aside my 20/21 spec is looking pretty good after 1.4

[Larry_Dallas]

LOL... all sarcasm aside my 20/21 spec is looking pretty good after 1.4

 

Backlash went from being counterproductive to a gamechanger, so that's not a surprise. Corruption/lightning hybrids are in an even better place. If a heals hybrid were to roll something like, IDK, this

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201rMrRMdMzZbsbMdRr.2

 

I imagine they would be incredibly effective. It's pretty much just madness that got whacked, but it's not incorrect to say changing overload whacks them hard.

[UGLYMRJ]

Backlash went from being counterproductive to a gamechanger, so that's not a surprise. Corruption/lightning hybrids are in an even better place. If a heals hybrid were to roll something like, IDK, this

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201rMrRMdMzZbsbMdRr.2

 

I imagine they would be incredibly effective. It's pretty much just madness that got whacked, but it's not incorrect to say changing overload whacks them hard.

 

Couldn't agree more... and that spec actually looks pretty beast. I never heal but it doesn't look bad at all. And as far as I know... there is only tank/DPS hybrid builds that are effective right now... right?

 

I haven't heard of an effective heal/DPS hybrid. On paper that build looks pretty beast tho.

[Larry_Dallas]

Couldn't agree more... and that spec actually looks pretty beast. I never heal but it doesn't look bad at all. And as far as I know... there is only tank/DPS hybrid builds that are effective right now... right?

 

I haven't heard of an effective heal/DPS hybrid. On paper that build looks pretty beast tho.

 

Sorc's actually got 2 hybrid heals that are in use and are pretty effective. The thinking is that the 31 point aoe isn't great for pvp (it's sometimes hard for melees to stay in it), so may as well make up the difference by scrapping the aoe heal and being able to switch to aoe damage and crowd control if needed.

 

The one I linked is a variation of the less popular one (C/L rather than C/M) based on what I think will work in 1.4. Most heals hybrids right now roll madness/corruption for Death Field and the instant whirlwind.

 

I could be wrong, but its possible these changes could bring the C/L hybrid almost in line with OP healers (that's the class I play most often in the 50 bracket). It's something I'll take a look at for sure.

 

So yeah, that one hybrid spec, which was already reasonably effective, got buffed big time.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[L-RANDLE]

Couldn't agree more... and that spec actually looks pretty beast. I never heal but it doesn't look bad at all. And as far as I know... there is only tank/DPS hybrid builds that are effective right now... right?

 

I haven't heard of an effective heal/DPS hybrid. On paper that build looks pretty beast tho.

 

The point that most Sage/Sorc are trying to make is that would should not have to go hybrid to even be viable in PvP. We are proabably the only class that HAS to do it. Now, we are also being pigeon-holed into Seer/Corr stuff.

[MidichIorian]

Not counting unless you specify.

 

Also, posting as some form of cutoff.

Edited September 6, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Chemic_al]

Or maybe some ability that used the force in order to sprint quickly, and create some distance. Now if that's something a sorc had on a 10-20 second CD.... well that would be something. Imagine if they had something that they could use to slow enemies too?

 

Or what if they had some kind of barrier... one that could potentially pop and stun players near them.

 

Or even some kind of mezz... that leaves people spinning in place like some kind of whirlwind got a hold of them. It would be cool if they had something like that to keep someone out of a fight for like 8 seconds.

 

And I know this is crazy... but what if they could heal themselves? Just some ideas to throw around.. but it sure would be nice if the sorcs and sages had SOME defensive abilities.

 

Who knows... maybe we'll get some of these in game soon.

 

 

 

I'm going to put this down to the fact that you don't play 50 PVP on a sorc. Pre 50 they are gods. At 50 they are at a huge disadvantage.

 

Force speed - I can't tell you how many times I've hit that only to be cced, rooted whatever, before I can even move with it.

 

Barrier mez - well that's talented, and I don't play lightning for PvP

 

Heal themselves? Oh you mean like the things that get interrupted when a competent player sees you do it? No instant heals like mercs or operatives....

 

An 8 sec mez you say? Oh they thing that can be interrupted too, unlike say flashbang or intimidating roar that also happen to be AOE and instant? Hell I can make it instant but problem is it white bars them after it breaks, and I have to talent it. Oh my, what a wonderful ability when I look at what other classes get.

 

So no Sorcs have no "oh crap" moment abilities to get themselves out of trouble, cf, force camo, force shroud, stealth, evasion, undying rage, and to top it off we get lumped with sub par DPS.

 

And as a previous poster said, shouldn't have to spec hybrid corruption/lightning to be viable. With these changes and the class balance as it is, they aren't.

[DroidDreamer]

As an almost full War Hero Sorc healer, I do not like the diminished defensive utility of Overload and Electrocute.

 

The other changes are nice but it was more defense, not less, that the class needs and that the community was clamoring for.

[MidichIorian]

Again, I don't know how to interpret "this was good and this was bad" so please specify what you think the netto outcome is. I mean, the shorter range on our stun alone is making me think of this update as bad. I probably would have thought that even if we had recieved a slight dps buff. So, if you dont know there's no reason to post in the first place.

[Phinub]

Dispite my disapproval of the change to overload i'm gonna say positive.

 

Madness sees the least buffs, but i'd literally kill for a 20s cd on sprint as full madness. The other changes are good and effort is being made to make 31 lightning more viable (will have to see if it's enough i guess). Too bad about the range on electrocute but i mostly used that defensively.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'm going to put this down to the fact that you don't play 50 PVP on a sorc. Pre 50 they are gods. At 50 they are at a huge disadvantage.

 

Force speed - I can't tell you how many times I've hit that only to be cced, rooted whatever, before I can even move with it.

 

Barrier mez - well that's talented, and I don't play lightning for PvP

 

Heal themselves? Oh you mean like the things that get interrupted when a competent player sees you do it? No instant heals like mercs or operatives....

 

An 8 sec mez you say? Oh they thing that can be interrupted too, unlike say flashbang or intimidating roar that also happen to be AOE and instant? Hell I can make it instant but problem is it white bars them after it breaks, and I have to talent it. Oh my, what a wonderful ability when I look at what other classes get.

 

So no Sorcs have no "oh crap" moment abilities to get themselves out of trouble, cf, force camo, force shroud, stealth, evasion, undying rage, and to top it off we get lumped with sub par DPS.

 

And as a previous poster said, shouldn't have to spec hybrid corruption/lightning to be viable. With these changes and the class balance as it is, they aren't.

 

I'm going to put this down as you just simply enjoy complaining and won't be happy until Sorcs are god. And if they are so godly as you say sub 50... Why are me and my friend pretty much the only ones excelling? Couldn't be skill? Noooooo... Couldn't be intelligent game play either.

 

Anyways, you can brush it off all you want and use the sub 50 claim. That's the only part of your argument that even comes close to making sense. Personally, I look forward to changes on a class that I'm already putting up top tier stats with and I expect 50 to be no different. You can click the sig and watch it in action for yourself. I'm going to be pushing for 50 even harder now with 1.4 coming because with my spec... I'll have an instant mezz, that you're complaining about being interrupted, I'll have a stun on bubble pop, I'll have a short CD on sprint and I'll have an IMPROVED knock back in my opinion. So keep on complaining, I'll be over here melting faces minding my own business.

Edited September 6, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[L-RANDLE]

Again, I don't know how to interpret "this was good and this was bad" so please specify what you think the netto outcome is. I mean, the shorter range on our stun alone is making me think of this update as bad. I probably would have thought that even if we had recieved a slight dps buff. So, if you dont know there's no reason to post in the first place.

 

Net outcome is any viable PvP DPS spec is in a worst spot, at best unchanged because of these reasons:

 

1. Our positioning is now compromised even more than it already is (Force Wave). Worst

2. We have to choose between getting things interrupted or being immobile (Mental Alacrity). No Change

3. Still has no root/snare break/prevention on Force Speed (Egress). No Change

4. Force Speed CD. No Change (because of the above reason, but this is up for debate).

5. Stun range nerfed. Worst

6. Inst-Heal (Force Mend). Better

7. AoE Mezz. "Better"

 

 

So lets see. 4*5^20+15..... = Looks like net bad for DPS, unless you are hybrid spec (with AoE mezz, which I turned off because it is way to generous on resolve. Trust me other classes will also QQ that their mezz is not as good and it will go away). Now add in that these moves only really affect survivability, when DPS spec'd Sage/Sorcs biggest gripe is mobility, force management, and/or burst, these moves are almost irrelevant.

 

I would hope they buff FiB/DF by 50%, so we could actually get that cannon people speak of, but I would have to kiss the babies for that to happen...

Edited September 6, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Larry_Dallas]

Answered this once, but I'll go spec by spec, because there's no net positives or negatives. Talenting backlash more than wipes the disadvantage by overload being conal...but not everyone can talent that

 

Madness-changes bad

Lightning-changes good but not enough to use the spec

Corruption-changes good

Madness/lightning hybrid-changes very good

Corruption/madness hybrid-changes neutral

Corruption/lightning hybrid-changes great

[Enhancer]

I'm going to put this down as you just simply enjoy complaining and won't be happy until Sorcs are god. And if they are so godly as you say sub 50... Why are me and my friend pretty much the only ones excelling? Couldn't be skill? Noooooo... Couldn't be intelligent game play either.

 

Anyways, you can brush it off all you want and use the sub 50 claim. That's the only part of your argument that even comes close to making sense. Personally, I look forward to changes on a class that I'm already putting up top tier stats with and I expect 50 to be no different. You can click the sig and watch it in action for yourself. I'm going to be pushing for 50 even harder now with 1.4 coming because with my spec... I'll have an instant mezz, that you're complaining about being interrupted, I'll have a stun on bubble pop, I'll have a short CD on sprint and I'll have an IMPROVED knock back in my opinion. So keep on complaining, I'll be over here melting faces minding my own business.

 

Again, with all due respect, your opinions and viewpoints as a mid 30 something lvl sorc are essentially irrelevant as to these changes and how they will effect gameplay at the end game lvl. And your comment about how "you and your friend are pretty much the only ones excelling" as a sub 50 sorc, err, everyone I know who rolls one boasts about how easy the faceroll is and how much fun they are to play. Pure easymode. LOL, I remember getting top dps in my second WZ ever in SWTOR and from that point on it was not uncommon for me to even double the next closest guy in dps/kills. But saying you expect to put up top tier stats as a 50 when you have no idea how much of a disadvantage you will have clearly gives you little credibility to what you really know about this prof.

 

Again, this in not meant as a jab or poke at you personally, but you have been one of the most vocal in many of these posts regarding these changes and I think its fair to remind you that you are referring to gameplay you have not yet experienced as a lvl 50 geared sorc. As an almost level 90 valor BiS dps spec I have a decent understanding of how these changes will effect the class at the end game lvl's and agree with most of the negative sentiments that FROM WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR, these changes will have no real positive effect on dps spec sorcs and will essentially force a hybrid build if you want to take advantage of these "buffs." And I think we can all agree that healer spec sorcs will love these adjustments.

 

Lastly, no, I'm not mad and don't expect "god mode" for sorcs. It's just important to point out that significant differences exist between the sub 50 lvl pvp experience and how this prof plays against geared skilled players.

[Teambo]

I'm going to put this down as you just simply enjoy complaining and won't be happy until Sorcs are god. And if they are so godly as you say sub 50... Why are me and my friend pretty much the only ones excelling? Couldn't be skill? Noooooo... Couldn't be intelligent game play either.

 

Every sorc/sages will tell you that pre 50 and 50 pvp is just not the same game for us. Please, level up and come back to us with your thoughts as a lvl 50 sorc/sage.

[mrekxxx]

I just copied this from another thread I was commenting on.... but everyone that says "bad".... really?

 

Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned. These abilities now knock back all targets within a 15-meter 120-degree cone in front of you. Furthermore, these abilities now knock back all potential targets instantly; they no longer wait for an animation note at the end of the ability animation.

 

- Force Speed now has a 20-second cooldown (down from 30) for all Consulars and Inquisitors.

- New Sorcerer/Sage ability, Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend: Heal yourself for a moderate amount. Only usable on yourself. Instant, costs no Force, 30-second cooldown. This ability is trainable at level 18.

- Dark Resilience/Valiance: Now additionally increases the healing dealt by Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend by 15% per point.

- Fadeout/Egress has been redesigned. Now causes Force Speed to remove all roots and snares and grant immunity to roots and snares for the duration.

- Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect.

- Backlash/Kinetic Collapse: The incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage.

 

Nerf/Buff Index

 

1. Nerf

 

2. Buff

 

agree

 

positive

[Baptes]

A couple of positives are nice, but are so far outweighed by the negatives that I'd have to say negative.

 

And yes, I'm a 50 sorc that will be shelving her if/when this goes live.

[Dioforce]

Looks like Madness will be obsolete. Tme to bust out the corruption/madness hybrid, or just go full heals. Silly really.

 

I'd like to see them buff Parasitism and make Death Field target five targets.

 

Otherwise... change to Overload is too bad. I like the delay and the 360 degree hitbox. Hard to judge changes before they're in, but fool me once, shame on me, etc etc.

 

Also seems like Scoundrels and Commandoes are getting buffed hugely. Pretty sure a geared Commando was already the toughest healer to kill in the game. AH WELL!

[MidichIorian]

I stopped counting since people still havent grasped the concept of positive/negative. Some are listing the different tweaks as positive/negative but what the hell am I going to do with that information? Do i just add them up? What if one thing is far more positive than two negatives combined? I don't want to make this biased based on my own negative opinion so I can't interpret what your net outcome is in an objective manner.

[L-RANDLE]

I stopped counting since people still havent grasped the concept of positive/negative. Some are listing the different tweaks as positive/negative but what the hell am I going to do with that information? Do i just add them up? What if one thing is far more positive than two negatives combined? I don't want to make this biased based on my own negative opinion so I can't interpret what your net outcome is in an objective manner.

 

Call for a revote! One word answer only: For DPS, all specs, are all the changes a NET positive or negative.

 

My vote:

Negative

[TomWolp]

From a dps sorc perspective, I would say it is a net positive but not by an overwhelming degree.

 

For full madness, the instant heal and the lower cool down of force speed are awesome when combined with the two second root every nine seconds you get from Creeping Terror.

 

For full lightning, it really was not viable for pvp before and I don't think the changes make it truly viable.

The damage from Thundering Blast is still pretty pitiful and the procs from this spec do not occur often enough to deal with the headaches of having to be a turret.

 

For lightning/madnes hybrids, it's a wash. Changing backlash from a three second mezz to a three second stun is good but it doubles the resolve value of that skill. If Lightning Effusion further reduces the cooldown of force speed to 10 seconds then it would be great but my suspicion is that they are going to remove the lower cooldown talent from the lightning effusion skill. Electric bindings is less useful because it's no longer a 360 degree ability.

 

The greatest concern is that it buffs two classes, concealment operatives and dps commandos which were probably even weaker than sorcs and makes them more powerful. Before, it was relatively easy to keep operatives at range because they had no viable gap closer. Now they do. While commandos had greater burst than sorcs, I won most one on one battles with them because I could interrupt their hard hitting skills while they could not interrupt me.

[MidichIorian]

From a dps sorc perspective, I would say it is a net positive but not by an overwhelming degree.

 

For full madness, the instant heal and the lower cool down of force speed are awesome when combined with the two second root every nine seconds you get from Creeping Terror.

About the new CD on Force Speed, mine is already 20 s so does that mean that it will drop to 10 s? The latter would actually have been pretty sweet. Edited September 8, 2012 by MidichIorian

[DakoHawk]

About the new CD on Force Speed, mine is already 20 s so does that mean that it will drop to 10 s? The latter would actually have been pretty broken.

 

fixed

[MidichIorian]

fixed

You honestly think that a 10 sec CD will make sorcs/sages OP? We're currently at a point where every burst class will, relentlessly, chase us in game after game...after game. They do this because they know that they will either win or, if everything fails, have the time to get away. A short CD on force speed would even out the odds by allowing the sorc/sage to get some breathing room, turn around and proc wrath through FL more often. It's not like the sorc would just burn down the enemy because of this but it might have cut down on all the minutes we have to kite away from the objective in every game. A prime example are my stats on VS (pugging), I always have silly low objective stats on that map because as soon as I'm getting close to the doors I'm getting jumped and have to spend a minute kiting someone. I have at the same time almost always top dps so it's not like I'm just standing around doing nothing.