Let's discuss the latest 1.4 commando changes !

[LilCthulhu]

Read :

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.4

 

Short Version:

 

Mercenaries and Commandos:

 

• Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18.
  
• Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commando’s ability to further escape the attacker.
  
• Tracer Lock/Charged Barrel: Now each stack additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan/Advanced Medical Probe by 20% per stack.
  
• Kolto Residue: Now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb by 50% for 3 seconds.
  
• New Bodyguard/Combat Medic skill, Peacekeeper/Frontline Medic: While protected by your own Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe, firing Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot at an enemy triggers your Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe to heal you on a separate 3-second rate limit.
  

 

... Discuss !!!

[LilCthulhu]

I look forward to it !

 

What I like : Interrupts and Charged Barrel now reduces activation time of healing abilities ! Nice Changes !!!

 

They have limited the range of other class CC also !

[SpaniardInfinity]

My conclusion to this is simple (as a healer) -- I need to find more keys on my keyboard! We FINALLY have our interrupt and its a ranged one too! The auto-attack combo with Trauma Probe should be interesting, if it still heals at the tech bonus healing rate. I look forward to it. As for Kolto Bomb snaring people -- its my most used ability (even more than my auto-attack/heal) so suffice to say that added bonus will be incredibly valuable for keeping people off my back.

[ArchangelLBC]

Tracer Lock/Charged Barrel: Now each stack additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan/Advanced Medical Probe by 20% per stack.

 

The interrupt is greatly appreciated, and I don't know how much good the root will do since stockstrike has a 4m range (unless you stockstrike > concussion charge), but I quite like this change the most for DPS commandos, though I wish it had been Medical Probe instead since AMP's baseline heal is kinda meh and it's on a 15s cooldown but something better than nothing.

 

Honestly though, while I'm stoked for the changes in PVE for quick offheals and an actual interrupt, I just don't see this suddenly making us viable in PVP. We're still very vulnerable to interrupts, this change has done nothing to get Gunnery's setup done faster, and Assault is still clear and away falling behind the vanguard version. Nice changes for healing commandos though.

[Chaoskyx]

Good, although I'm disappointed in the lack of changes to Assault Specialist; that spec's going to be a bit gimpy now that it's the only one with an unreliable kiting mechanic. Kinda bugs me that Sages got an interrupt immunity ability and we didn't, too.

 

We finally have an interrupt, so there's that.

 

The Stockstrike root for Gunnery is nice, but I really, really wish they'd made it accessible to all specs. Also, it seems as though Stockstrike will no longer apply a knockback, and while I agree with their comment on the resolve it generated doing more harm than good, this means that we'll be spending the duration of the root running away, so it might not be all that great in the end.

 

The snare on Kolto Bomb is pretty lackluster. I mean, I know it has a short cooldown, and it's an AoE, but 3 seconds isn't very good.

 

The Hammer shot heal uses stacks of Trauma Probe, so that's pretty meh.

 

I think what I like most is the addition to Charged Barrel. This'll actually make us fairly tanky, and make us great off-healers as well. Kinda wish it wasn't only tied to Grav Round, though.

[CBRGhostRider]

 

Honestly though, while I'm stoked for the changes in PVE for quick offheals and an actual interrupt, I just don't see this suddenly making us viable in PVP. We're still very vulnerable to interrupts, this change has done nothing to get Gunnery's setup done faster, and Assault is still clear and away falling behind the vanguard version. Nice changes for healing commandos though.

 

Big buffs, no question about that. And you will now somewhat reliably be able to keep people away from you. Not every class has a ranged interrupt (most melee dont) and these changes will solve problems against the melee classes without making mercs suddenly OP against classes with ranged interrupts as well.

 

Gunnery/arsenal setup is already faster after 1.3. You could do just 2 round of grav/tracer and still get very respectable damage following up with HSM and RS. Unload already does tons of damage.

 

You will also actually be able to use the heal effectively.

 

Honestly, these are big buffs and no merc should be complaining or looking at it like a glass half empty. I have a 50 merc that I stopped pvpign with, and I will dust him off and use him again after 1.4. Just my 2c.

[CBRGhostRider]

Good, although I'm disappointed in the lack of changes to Assault Specialist; that spec's going to be a bit gimpy now that it's the only one with an unreliable kiting mechanic. Kinda bugs me that Sages got an interrupt immunity ability and we didn't, too.

 

 

I agree with you here. Vanguards have a dps tree with hold the line/hydraulic overrides. Juggs get unstoppable in vengeance. Sorcs get a dps tree with cc immunity now. Snipers already have it with entrench. I do agree that the gunnery/arsenal tree needs cc imunity as well.

 

Either way, at least these are a whole bunch of positive changes in the right direction. Too many positive changes have a way of making classes OP, and I'd rather see a few changes at a time than getting everything.

[ArchangelLBC]

Big buffs, no question about that. And you will now somewhat reliably be able to keep people away from you. Not every class has a ranged interrupt (most melee dont) and these changes will solve problems against the melee classes without making mercs suddenly OP against classes with ranged interrupts as well.

 

Gunnery/arsenal setup is already faster after 1.3. You could do just 2 round of grav/tracer and still get very respectable damage following up with HSM and RS. Unload already does tons of damage.

 

You will also actually be able to use the heal effectively.

 

Honestly, these are big buffs and no merc should be complaining or looking at it like a glass half empty. I have a 50 merc that I stopped pvpign with, and I will dust him off and use him again after 1.4. Just my 2c.

 

See I disagree. These changes are very much glass half empty.

 

Because stockstrike has a 4m range, unless we can root > knockback without breaking the root, it doesn't really do anything for us as far as keeping enemies away, and it's other utility (rooting ball carriers/reinforcements) is also heavily diminished because of this.

 

The ranged interrupt is nice, but I guarantee that that means it's on a 12 second cooldown. It's a much needed PVE change, but I've said for awhile that outside of helping to shutdown healers at range, an interrupt is not where we lack in PVP. The one class I'd REALLY want to shut down with the interrupt (besides healers) is snipers but they're immune to interrupts in cover. That, combined with with their immunity to leaps and pulls in cover, is what makes them such deadly and effective ranged turrets, and something akin to this (through a hold the line type ability) is what we needed for PVP viability. As it is they can still stop our grav round setup with an interrupt at range, and they get a boost to ranged defense in cover to deal with Full Auto and High Impact Bolt as well. They're still gonna do the ranged turret thing much better than we could ever hope to.

 

Against everyone else, the interrupt does nothing because the few skills that other classes use that are channeled/casted are uninterruptable (Master Strike, Harnessed Shadows TKT, etc). Maybe against non-madness DPS Sorcs but they also have a 35m range on some of their abilities.

 

The healing cast time buff looked to be the most interesting at first glance, but then I saw that it only seemed to apply to AMP, which heals for a mediocre amount if it doesn't crit in DPS spec, and is on a 15 second cool down. If the buff had applied to MP it might have been OP'd (though ammo issues really would prevent over spamming of the ability), but as it is AMP will be used more now but 3k HP every 15s is probably not going to make the difference in a fight if the enemy has used an interrupt to get ahead in the DPS race. A way to spam heal ourselves uninterrupted would have been nice if we're willing to burn through ammo, though yes that might well have made us OP, and I won't say that the extra heal won't be helpful even so, but it's not going to make us all that more viable in PVP at all.

 

I don't deny the changes are nice, and I always much prefer buffs, but I don't see my commando getting dusted off for PVP in any kind of serious capacity at all. The core problems with the class have remained unaddressed, us finally getting an interrupt notwithstanding.

[TeganKing]

My Thoughts on new changes:

 

Mercenaries and Commandos:

 

• Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18.
  This is great and what we asked for.
   
  
• Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commando’s ability to further escape the attacker.
  Doesn't matter what spec I play, I Never used this ability and most likely will not use after the change.
   
  
• Tracer Lock/Charged Barrel: Now each stack additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan/Advanced Medical Probe by 20% per stack.
  5 Charged Barrels and get Insta-Cast AMP, sounds great! Could make CM/Gunnery Hybrid spec actually worth trying out!
   
  
• Kolto Residue: Now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb by 50% for 3 seconds.
  This is just awesome! I am always dropping these on myself as I try to kite away from Melee and also on my group which is usually in the middle of a brawl, snaring the enemy will be great utility! This is <3
   
  
• New Bodyguard/Combat Medic skill, Peacekeeper/Frontline Medic: While protected by your own Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe, firing Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot at an enemy triggers your Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe to heal you on a separate 3-second rate limit.
  So if this works right, it can heal you twice if you are doing damage and taking damage, this will use up trauma probe faster, but lets face it, if your dead, the probe is not going to do you any good. Will be an interesting mechanic to add to the Mix
   
  

[ArchangelLBC]

Another thing I just thought of is that it doesn't say whether or not the Charged Barrel stacks will be consumed by AMP or not. If so then having to choose between a buffed free HiB or an instant AMP which costs 2 ammo is actually quite the annoying choice. It would let us do a nice big heal on the run in hutt ball say, but we still need those stacks and that means 3 GCDs spent self rooting.

 

Underwhelming change is kinda underwhelming. Really need the full intended patch notes as well as some actual testing. Gonna call everything but the interrupt lack luster till I see it in action (that way if I'm wrong I can be pleasantly surprised!).

[klham]

They've strengthened the escape capability of Gunnery Commandos - you can actually see an "escape rotation" in these changes that makes use of a (potentially) instant AMP self-heal on-the-fly. If ammo mgt wasn't already so incredibly unforgiving I would wonder if this lends a boost to hybrid CM-Gunnery specs. The AoE snare is surely very useful (if you go up the CM tree far enough to get Kolto Bomb). That said, Gunnery still lacks the "turret" functionality of an entrenched/hunkered sniper/gunslinger though, and we're still totally open to interrupts. So do these changes off-set our unfortunate status as a "free kill" in PvP? I don't think so but I'm willing to try it out and give the changes a chance. As for the for Assault spec, there's not much here for Assault but that was the least troubled of the three specs and the interrupt goes a long way to address a huge disadvantage of the AC across all specs, especially when caught in the open (lightning spam anyone?). But even so the Commando Assault spec still underperforms relative to VG Assault. To sum up, I think the changes correct some oversights in the AC design but strike me as very cautious and incremental adjustments. Clearly the approach to changes to the Commando AC is evolutionary rather than revolutionary; changes to force-wielding classes seem more decisive.

[ArchangelLBC]

To sum up, I think the changes correct some oversights in the AC design but strike me as very cautious and incremental adjustments. Clearly the approach to changes to the Commando AC is evolutionary rather than revolutionary; changes to force-wielding classes seem more decisive.

 

Yep! I'm glad to see they've learned their lesson and are focusing mostly on buffs and not nerfs, and more importantly have learned the value of incremental changes. Props to BW on that. Just wish they'd had this philosophy when they made the original Grav Round nerfs.

[Calzaghe]

Don't wish to sound disrespectful, I'm a long term Combat Medic since launch and these changes seem underwhelming to say the least.

 

In similar fashion to giving us a combat res (that all other healing classes had to begin with), the developers give us an nterupt, which lets face it, we should have had since launch anyway.

 

Hey It's early days I know, maybe they will add or change more skills/mechanics, but this isn't so far going to convince people to attempt or try out the Commando/Merc class thats for sure.

 

EDIT#

 

You should really have the Cryo Grenade reduced to 10 meters (instead of 30) on the point list, though it appears they would rather have us utilise the stockstrike ability more often. Our main stuns (other than Concussive round which has a fairly long castime unless used with Tech Override) can now be used in close quater combat only.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Calzaghe

[Jherad]

As a PvP Gunnery - I am disappointed. Very disappointed.

 

It seems that the only thing they took from the feedback thread was the desire for an interrupt. Personally, that was WAAAAY down my list of priorities, and one I could have lived without.

 

So what did we (gunnery commandos) get?

 

 

 

• An interrupt. Which will help us against the classes we had the least difficulty fighting anyway.
  
• The ability to proc an instant small heal on a 12 sec cooldown IF you can land 3 grav rounds (ie. not vs melee).
  
• Removal of one of our KBs in exchange for a melee range 4 second root (seriously?)
  
• The big one... A reduction in our cryo grenade to 10 meters. Are you freaking kidding me?
  

 

 

And with this, PTs come out essentially unscathed. Yeah.

 

Not impressed. I'll try it out, but nothing here tells me that BW understood our issues.

 

Oh, and apparently everyone is going to see a lot more CC. Yaaaay!

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[Bleeters]

Well, I don't pvp, and given that most of these changes seem to have pvp in mind, I can't really comment on how useful they'll be.

 

As far as pve is concerned, you can probably guess my response. Yay interrupt, minor boo range reduction on cryo grenade. Given that one is much, much more useful than the other, I can't really complain. Not that I would, because interrupt wooo.

[Henu]

Hi guys, i a Merc arsenal player (your mirrored class) and i believe our changes are just, well they are stupid. i can see how BW small amount of thinking has given us the chance to escape with this stun crap but think about it for a second.. escape to where?

 

This change is very poorly thought through, knock backs are a huge part of my game play and when timed can be more effective than any stun.

Never have PVPers complained about our knock backs, all we needed was the interrupt and a little more DPS and thats it, the guy behind the desk that made these changes i bet does not play our class.

[Jherad]

I cannot overstate how hard that knockback removal is going to hurt Gunnery spec in PvP. It was absolutely pivotal to the build against meleers (particularly juggs and maras), and if well timed didn't hurt resolve too much.

 

Now I'll be eating ravages. I seriously wasn't expecting this. Where is the powertech nerf? Someone in BW has a dark sense of humour.

[Henu]

I cannot overstate how hard that knockback removal is going to hurt Gunnery spec in PvP. It was absolutely pivotal to the build against meleers (particularly juggs and maras), and if well timed didn't hurt resolve too much.

 

Now I'll be eating ravages. I seriously wasn't expecting this. Where is the powertech nerf? Someone in BW has a dark sense of humour.

 

its like they want less people to play the game.

[Jherad]

its like they want less people to play the game.

 

I wouldn't go that far, I am sure they have the best intentions... But it does seem that the changes weren't thought through, or were decided by someone with a poor understanding of the class and its problems. Surprise surprise.

[Henu]

I wouldn't go that far, I am sure they have the best intentions... But it does seem that the changes weren't thought through, or were decided by someone with a poor understanding of the class and its problems. Surprise surprise.

 

Like i said in other posts, these changes are made by someone that sits behind a desk and doesn't play the class or he's come up against a Merc/commando that knows what he's doing and got owned.

Either way, this knock back too stun change should not go live.

[aurellian]

I am REALLY happy about getting an interrupt finally. I am also really happy about getting a HoT (the trauma probe ability) and an additional stun combined with Kolto Bomb (which I use all the time).

[Demonsong]

As a PvP Gunnery - I am disappointed. Very disappointed.

 

It seems that the only thing they took from the feedback thread was the desire for an interrupt. Personally, that was WAAAAY down my list of priorities, and one I could have lived without.

 

So what did we (gunnery commandos) get?

 

 

• An interrupt. Which will help us against the classes we had the least difficulty fighting anyway.
  
• The ability to proc an instant small heal on a 12 sec cooldown IF you can land 3 grav rounds (ie. not vs melee).
  
• Removal of one of our KBs in exchange for a melee range 4 second root (seriously?)
  
• The big one... A reduction in our cryo grenade to 10 meters. Are you freaking kidding me?
  

 

And with this, PTs come out essentially unscathed. Yeah.

 

Not impressed. I'll try it out, but nothing here tells me that BW understood our issues.

 

Oh, and apparently everyone is going to see a lot more CC. Yaaaay!

 

Well stated. I could not agree more.

[DashaAdair]

Losing Stockstrike’s knockback is a design disconnect to the core Commando concept. We are stationary. The enemy we want to Stockstrike wants to be next to us to swing their flashy swords. Immobilizing them next to us means…they can swing their flashy swords.

 

Unless I move.

 

The problem is my best attacks are done while stationary. Any solution that forces me to move runs against my core concept. Concussion Charge’s design is a clear solution built for the stationary firer. I don’t move. I move them…and keep firing. Stockstrike worked the same way. I didn’t move. I moved them.

 

If the problem is it generates too much resolve, reduce the amount of resolve it generates. Stationary firers need solutions that move the enemy or pins them at range. We don’t need solutions that make us move. It runs counter to our design.

 

Besides, I’m too lazy to run around. ;-D

[Oticus]

Ok I am totally glass is 3/4 full.

Like it or not in PVP as a ranged DPS you have to kite at times and now we have one more tool to get range(stockstrike/stun) plus an interrupt, yes we lost range on cryo but most people used it as a ranged interrupt in PVP anyway and now we dont have to. Gunnery commandos now have 3 cc abilities and an interrupt. And medics have an instaheal and a slow with Kolto. And in exchange they decreased the range of our cryo. It seems like alot of you people want some ability that allows you to just stand somewhere and spam GR all day without taking interrupts or damage. I have never played a decent PVP game where in a competetive environment you could stand still the majority of the game and just pew pew.

bottom line I would have been happy with just an interrupt, the rest is icing on the cake

[SpaniardInfinity]

One thing worth considering is the developer update is NOT the patch notes. I am sure there are other changes not among the "highlights". For instance, the Combat Medic tree will be quite crowded (we would have five abilities in the tree) if the tree remains unchanged beyond that addition. As a result, I suspect there are to be a few changes to the tree. Don't be surprised if among them are changes to Gunnery gameplay. Perhaps interrupt immunity on Full Auto or something of that nature.

 

In other words, this is great news, but far from the only news. Once the patch notes are up -- which I'm guessing will be this or next week -- then you can start being disappointed. Honestly, the changes I'm seeing here for Commandos as a whole will help control the enemy -- which is one of the reasons why Commando DPS specifically had so much trouble establishing itself.

Edited September 5, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity