Jump to content

Changes to sorcs/sages 1.4

xstortion

By xstortion
in Sage / Sorcerer

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 117
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Riggz

Riggz

Posted
Posted

I play a madness sorc and I'm happy with the changes

Our Knockback now knocks targets further back and it now requires skill to aim

Also our stun nerf isn't too bad, I'm used to my operative stun which is in melee range so not a big deal to me

Force speed is now 20 second cd and snares have no effect

Also we get a free instant heal, not bad at all

 

These are good changes, and If you are upset go read power tech pyro changes and than you'll feel a real nerf

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheLordMaster

TheLordMaster

Posted
Posted
I play a madness sorc and I'm happy with the changes

Our Knockback now knocks targets further back and it now requires skill to aim

Also our stun nerf isn't too bad, I'm used to my operative stun which is in melee range so not a big deal to me

Force speed is now 20 second cd and snares have no effect

Also we get a free instant heal, not bad at all

 

These are good changes, and If you are upset go read power tech pyro changes and than you'll feel a real nerf

 

Pretty sure you have to have Fadeout speced for the immunity on force speed. Which is deep in Corruption.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
warultima

warultima

Posted
Posted (edited)
Pretty sure you have to have Fadeout speced for the immunity on force speed. Which is deep in Corruption.

 

Coz he has no clue what hes talking about on his Lv12 Sorc.

 

And yes only if you climb up the healing tree for at very least 22 points should you get the 2 whole seconds of movement impairment immunity. Yes you can still get mezzed or stunning before, during, or after you have activated force speed.

 

True full CC immunity are only possible with an Assassin. That is popping force speed with Force Shroud and Deflection together.

 

And I have tested the new overload. The tooltip says its 15m cone in front of you I stood at 14.95m away from an enemy and overload didnt reach. I tried again at 14.75m range overload hit and knocked enemy back to 22.75m indicating an 8m knockback. Tried again at 10m range enemy is knocked back to 18m. Again at 5m range and enemy is knocked back to 13m. Overload IS instant and I like it. 8-meter KB distance is definitely better than what we have rightnow.

 

For those who wants to have a closer comparison. At time of testing I was at @ 766.7 Bonus Damage 554.4 Bonus Healing.

At partial WH/BM mix (my char was copied a long time ago didnt have full WH back then) , Unnatural Might (untalented as I have 0 point in corruption as of testing these) heals about 1000 more than a Dark Heal and 500 less than Dark Infusion.

 

Heres a quick comparo for you kids (This is with all 4 class buffs on with no stims)

At 554.4 Bonus Healing

Dark Heal: 1523-1665

Dark Infusion: 3024-3166

Unnatural Preservation (UP): 2544

 

Then I use rakata resolve stims (+willpower 112 & +power 46) this raised by healing bonus to 580.9 from 554.4

UP tooltip now says 2618

 

---------------------------------------------(below this line isnt actual ingame number and is just my guesses)

Talent will increase this by 30% to 3403-hp healed (PvP trauma will negate a portion of healing done)

3403 at 75% surge bonus will crit heal for 5955hp before trauma.

 

Very decent healing actually considering its instant cast HOWEVER its significantly weaker for any DPS sorcs (approximately 1832 hp heal and 3207 hp crit) of course fully WH will bring this number up. Treat this skill like a 2nd emergency bubble 30s CD on it isnt bad for 1v1 encounters. Questionably useful in rWZ for a full DPS Sorc especially when under focus (any raw damage defensive cd is better than a few thousand hp heal under heavy focus tbh). However when used by a full healing/healing hybrid, this spell used with recklessness (and it works with recklessness btw) its THE BIGGEST INSTANT HEALING ability in game.

 

Looks like in BW's vision, sorcs defensive CD is indeed Pop recklessness and self heal.

Edited by warultima
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SoonerJBD

SoonerJBD

Posted
Posted
It's clear from the 1.4 changes that Sages and Sorcs are not intended to do the same level of DPS as other classes. The devs have to know how far behind we are parsing. They said previously all the DPS specs would be within 5 percent. We're not within 10 percent of some other classes. With this big a balance patch and no increase to our DPS, it's clear that this is "working as intended." They have no intention of making Sorc damage on par with marauders or snipers, for example. I guess they think since we get a heal button, we shouldn't put out the same DPS.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
schnopsnosn

schnopsnosn

Posted
Posted
It's clear from the 1.4 changes that Sages and Sorcs are not intended to do the same level of DPS as other classes. The devs have to know how far behind we are parsing. They said previously all the DPS specs would be within 5 percent. We're not within 10 percent of some other classes. With this big a balance patch and no increase to our DPS, it's clear that this is "working as intended." They have no intention of making Sorc damage on par with marauders or snipers, for example. I guess they think since we get a heal button, we shouldn't put out the same DPS.

 

You're wrong.

http://simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites
veyl

veyl

Posted
Posted

 

Really wish people would stop posting this. That is for a never moving stand up fight with no real time raid situations which vastly changes those DPS numbers. Also: It's missing a few of the DPS classes on there.. mainly marauder // sentinel which Im sure would be at the top of that list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
warultima

warultima

Posted
Posted (edited)
The parses I saw in BiS setups had Sages/Sorcs dead last and well outside the 5 percent Bioware claimed all the specs would fall within. Shadow/Sin Madness/Balance was the top of the heap, but there were other specs that hadn't been entered yet.

 

That one was stock full campaign no modification.

Sorcs is not dead last but its definitely among some of the crappiest dps.

At fully Best-in-Slot fully moded, Sorcs are behind Snipers, Operatives, and Mercs

Edited by warultima
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jordalx

Jordalx

Posted
Posted
Sorc's dps @ pvp is nice. You just need to gear it right, skill it right, kno how to play, right rota.

fulltime voidstars are always between 700-1kk dmg (900-1000dps), just a really well played pt can keep to that..

You know how long voidstar games are? Just because you are good does not mean they are balanced and not UP. They are squishy water pistols.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SoonerJBD

SoonerJBD

Posted
Posted
I'm more concerned with PvE, where this stuff is easy to measure. They said a while back that all the DPS classes are supposed to be within 5 percent of each other. We know for a fact that is not the case based on parses and SimC data. Sages/Sorcs are more than 5 percent behind several other DPS classes/specs. So why did we get no damage buff in this update? Why did the top specs not get nerfed to bring them back in line? The self heal is nice, and I'm glad we got some sort of buff. But we need a damage buff if we are going to live up to the standard the devs themselves set, which is ~5 percent of other DPS classes/specs. Has this standard changed? Does the fact that we have a heal button mean they set a target for Sorcs/Sages below that 5 percent? Do they just not care? I mean, I would like an answer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sepulch

Sepulch

Posted
Posted (edited)
Sidenote: How do you feel about Assassins // Power Techs // Juggernauts that run around in DPS gear in TANK STANCE with all of that extra Mitigation and hit harder with their abilities than the Sorc Class?
On a side note, I've just researched into Juggernaut for the past couple of days and the above proves the "grass is always greener" phenomena. Up to the point its ridicules, if you want to feel and read good about your class, you have to visit other classes forums lol. In essence, no Juggernaut in tank stance deals the amount of damage you speak of and the tank style with DPS gear is long long nerfed, forgotten and deemed not viable by the Juggy community. People tend to put a lot of speculation on forums. Edited by Sepulch
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mrekxxx

mrekxxx

Posted
Posted
On a side note, I've just researched into Juggernaut for the past couple of days and the above proves the "grass is always greener" phenomena. Up to the point its ridicules, if you want to feel and read good about your class, you have to visit other classes forums lol. In essence, no Juggernaut in tank stance deals the amount of damage you speak of and the tank style with DPS gear is long long nerfed, forgotten and deemed not viable by the Juggy community. People tend to put a lot of speculation on forums.

 

yeah my main is juggy and i agree...

 

juggy in tank stance with dps gear does very weak dmg and u can ignore him, and he will never attack u, if is in soresu he guard s1

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xeraphyne

xeraphyne

Posted
Posted (edited)

I went onto the PTS tonight where my sorc was copied over the last time Bioware was allowing us to be copied. She isn't as geared as much as she is on live, but it at least gives an idea of a nearly full rakata geared sorc. She has 1 piece columi, 1 piece BH, and rest rakata. Unfortunately, she only has 2 pieces augmented and her willpower sits about about 1884 and healing bonus at 574, crit 35%, and surge is at 74%. Just messing around my non crit heals were ~3700 and my crit heal was ~6600 with all buffs and rakata stim. I popped recklessness and triage adrenal and it crit for ~7200.

 

Stats

non crit

Crit heal

 

Now on live server (wish she could be recopied) she has full augmented campaign - willpower is 2333 and bonus healing is 791.3 with buffs and exotech stim crit 33% and surge 78.44%. I wish I was a mathematical genius to give you a better idea what the numbers would be in the full campaign gear. However, I see this helping tremendously with having to consume during long pve fights and can be right back up to near full health instead of having to stand in their aoe puddle.

Edited by xeraphyne
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ahduth

ahduth

Posted
Posted
Just messing around my non crit heals were ~3700 and my crit heal was ~6600 with all buffs and rakata stim. I popped recklessness and triage adrenal and it crit for ~7200.

 

Man, that looks great. A free 4000-7000 insta-heal that I can use every 30 seconds while running around trying to kite marauders sounds like a huge buff. Hopefully the developers take the advice of all the people saying it's irrelevant, and it stays this large in release.

 

And your point about the reviv pool in PvE is a great one - I always hated having to do that, seemed like it should have some bigger strategic value, rather than just being a hot I had to use for force management.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomWolp

TomWolp

Posted
Posted
The new heal is less than 15% of your health, without being healed specced...Troopers and Bounty Hunters have the same thing, it's just a HoT, on a longer timer (though Pyro can spec to make it less than a minute).

 

Sooooo....It's basically crap.

 

Except this ability is instant and on a 30 second cooldown (instead of 3 minutes)

 

A full WH sorc will have about 19K health. 15 percent of that is 2.7K. Even as a dps sorc that puts no talent points to make it better, it should reliably heal you for 15 percent in a warzone with a good chance to crit.

 

I think it's a pretty useful cooldown to have.

 

As for PVE, it seems to be a pretty powerful ability for dps sorcs to be able to use consumption and to have this as an extra medpack every 30 seconds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SoonerJBD

SoonerJBD

Posted
Posted

 

No, you are wrong. That profile is for stock campaign gear. In optimized, BiS gear, Sorcerers are 12 percent behind Snipers. We don't even know how far we are behind Marauders, as they haven't been added to the SimC profile yet.

 

http://simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign_BiS.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Altheran

Altheran

Posted
Posted (edited)
The new heal is less than 15% of your health, without being healed specced...Troopers and Bounty Hunters have the same thing, it's just a HoT, on a longer timer (though Pyro can spec to make it less than a minute).

 

Sooooo....It's basically crap.

 

Let's compare with what other have :

 

1. Shadow :

They can have a 10% health if tank specced by using Battle Readiness on a 3min CD. Unilke you they have to spec for it and have a 6 time longer CD for 5% less.

 

2. Trooper :

They can have a 15s HoT of 15% total health, on a 3min CD which can be tuned down with Assault spec up to 36s only and only if at each time the internal CD of talent is out a crit occurs which is not be achieved. Unlike you they have to spec in order to have a decent CD, their health regen is not a life saver ability because the value it takes 15s to have full regeneration and in an intense situation if you use it as a last resort ability (near from death) you'll only be able to get something like 2-3% of health so the ability can only be used a prevention tool when you have lost some health but you're not in danger.

 

3. Knights :

They can have a 10% health regen on their CC-breaker if focus specced. Unlike you thay have to spec for it and has a condition in order to use. It has also a 3min CD.

Guardian can have a health regen on the ability which reduces threat. It cost 1 focus per tick of health which can be a real nuisance if you try to DPS at the same time. It is conditional to recieving damage, so can only be used when attacked, not after winning a fight and switching target. A tank specced guardian cannot use it in PvE because of the threat reduction. 45s CD

Guardian can also have a 30% health but which is taken back after the end of effect which can let you with 1HP. If used without support, unless it is a 1vs1 that you win, it can't save you. 90s CD.

 

None of them can crit because they are not considered as proper healing abilities.

 

All these are not better than the one you get.

 

Sooooo... if your one is crappy, all other are crappier than crap.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Chemic_al

Chemic_al

Posted
Posted
No, you are wrong. That profile is for stock campaign gear. In optimized, BiS gear, Sorcerers are 12 percent behind Snipers. We don't even know how far we are behind Marauders, as they haven't been added to the SimC profile yet.

 

http://simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign_BiS.html

 

Ouch, I didn't realize it was quite that bad, I can see maras easily 15% ahead on DPS. How Bioware can say with a straight face that dps classes are within 5% of eachother is quite unfathomable, but one thing we know is they obviously have no inclination of addressing this issue despite the abundance of facts proving that statement is an outright lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...