Learn to read the loot...

[grallmate]

Needing for companions is perfectly acceptable in all situations.

 

I'll usually make it clear right off the bat, but if my reason for being there is the same item you're there for, we're both investing the same amount of time, and we're both entitled to the same chance at the loot we'd like.

 

I'm not in the group to carry you to your loot. If I'm in a FP, it's because I'm looking for something.

 

Another favorite is "you already have that piece, why are you needing it again?!"

That's simple, bw horribly itemized every piece of gear in the game, so you often need to seek a single item many times to get enough of the correct enhancements. (for example)

 

Please continue to make this clear off the bat. I'll be sure to drop group, /ignore you and you can spend 20 minutes waiting for a new tank. Asking if you can need a specific piece for a companion is fine, but if its an upgrade for a team mates main set, they should get it. They'll get more use out of it than your companion will, regardless of how much you solo.

 

Again, if you're needing for mods and someone else if you group can use the WHOLE item, you're being selfish. You can use maybe 2/3 mods for a small upgrade in stats and a better itemization. Your team mate is going up ATLEAST a tier of gear. Or rather, they're not because you just "Need"ed it.

 

Enjoy your increasing queue times and know that it wasn't caused by dropping population. You brought it on yourself.

 

EDIT: Looked at your character link and see you are a tank. I take solace in being on a different server, for if we were on the same you would end up as only the second tank I have ever /ignored. I hope you enjoy getting away with being a tool because of class imbalances.

Edited September 1, 2012 by grallmate

[RKLimes]

Please continue to make this clear off the bat. I'll be sure to drop group, /ignore you and you can spend 20 minutes waiting for a new tank. Asking if you can need a specific piece for a companion is fine, but if its an upgrade for a team mates main set, they should get it. They'll get more use out of it than your companion will, regardless of how much you solo.

 

Again, if you're needing for mods and someone else if you group can use the WHOLE item, you're being selfish. You can use maybe 2/3 mods for a small upgrade in stats and a better itemization. Your team mate is going up ATLEAST a tier of gear. Or rather, they're not because you just "Need"ed it.

 

Enjoy your increasing queue times and know that it wasn't caused by dropping population. You brought it on yourself.

 

EDIT: Looked at your character link and see you are a tank. I take solace in being on a different server, for if we were on the same you would end up as only the second tank I have ever /ignored. I hope you enjoy getting away with being a tool because of class imbalances.

 

So what you're saying is i should carry someone to their loot? Just want to make sure I understand your point of view. How are these people going to get their loot when we have to kick them until someone joins who doesn't need a specific piece? How do you feel when someone else in your group is the same class? Do you determine who's play style is more deserving of loot? If guy A runs OPS twice a week, and guy B runs them 5 times a week, should guy A pass on all the loot? Clearly guy B uses the loot more often. (Just like your argument regarding companions.)

 

If you looked I'm sure you noticed I don't need columi loot, my post was a matter of principle. The 20-30mins I spend in a FP has the same value as everyone else's.

 

As I said, not everyone plays for the same reason, and your reason for playing is not more important than someone else's. If you feel it is: you sir, are being selfish.

 

Also if you think you're important enough for the world to care who you ignore, you're also conceited.

 

We're all here to have some fun. If someone can't run a FP for companion loot, you'll find the LFG tool will become even more useless. To be frank, my companions are in mostly rakata/black hole, but again I'm speaking out of principle.

 

If I'm in a group with a nice guy, who replies to my statement of intent to roll for companions by saying "I'm only looking for this one piece, if it drops would you mind passing for me?" I'll gladly oblige. He sounds like the kind of gent I wouldn't mind helping. I'd even offer him another run if it didn't drop. However if someone replied with some rant about his ignore list and "gl waiting in queue," farewell and good riddance. I wish all the world's D-Bags would put me on ignore. Saves me the trouble of grouping with them again.

[Ruskaeth]

I was helping out a guild on many ec hm runs and I was one somewhat dumbstruck that a nice guy, who was in the game for the last night before _not_ resubbing would take a campaign piece for his companion when a) before it's been needing for mainspec and b) companion rolls only after someone doesn't want that specific item. I think the guild evaporated after that, or split in half or something. Anyway, had he said that different rules would apply on campaign offhand on this round before we started, I'd have just told him "cool, lets do that for you, you've seen a lot of effort to gear up your companion". Still, no one like surprises so it was a different call.

 

Personally, I like people paying attention to if other people could possibly need it more like some have said. In the end, this conversation is moot regarding operations, on FPs -do what you will, but on operations everything should be agreed upon before any loot is spread around.

[Khevar]

So what you're saying is i should carry someone to their loot? Just want to make sure I understand your point of view. How are these people going to get their loot when we have to kick them until someone joins who doesn't need a specific piece? How do you feel when someone else in your group is the same class? Do you determine who's play style is more deserving of loot? If guy A runs OPS twice a week, and guy B runs them 5 times a week, should guy A pass on all the loot? Clearly guy B uses the loot more often. (Just like your argument regarding companions.)

 

If you looked I'm sure you noticed I don't need columi loot, my post was a matter of principle. The 20-30mins I spend in a FP has the same value as everyone else's.

 

As I said, not everyone plays for the same reason, and your reason for playing is not more important than someone else's. If you feel it is: you sir, are being selfish.

 

Also if you think you're important enough for the world to care who you ignore, you're also conceited.

 

We're all here to have some fun. If someone can't run a FP for companion loot, you'll find the LFG tool will become even more useless. To be frank, my companions are in mostly rakata/black hole, but again I'm speaking out of principle.

 

If I'm in a group with a nice guy, who replies to my statement of intent to roll for companions by saying "I'm only looking for this one piece, if it drops would you mind passing for me?" I'll gladly oblige. He sounds like the kind of gent I wouldn't mind helping. I'd even offer him another run if it didn't drop. However if someone replied with some rant about his ignore list and "gl waiting in queue," farewell and good riddance. I wish all the world's D-Bags would put me on ignore. Saves me the trouble of grouping with them again.

I understand where you're coming from, but let me offer an alternate viewpoint.

 

If everyone Greeds, everyone has an equal chance of getting the loot.

 

If everyone Needs, everyone has an equal chance of getting the loot.

 

So there has to be something to distinguish between when you would Need on a roll and when you would Greed on a roll. WIth most of the people I've grouped with, the difference is, "will the item in question be a direct upgrade to your primary character in the flashpoint/op right now." Everything else is generally greeded.

 

I myself also have highly geared companions, but most of this came from Rakata drops doing EC, when everyone in the run already had Rakata so the loot drops were all "greed" rolls. If I ever run an HM EV or HM KP, there is most likely going to be someone else in the group who can use that Rakata drop and I personally consider their primary character's gear more important than my companion. Mostly because their companions won't be helping us through future operations.

 

Doesn't this seem like a fair approach?

Edited September 2, 2012 by Khevar

[Fayrelle]

This is what I do...At the start of a FP I say this flat out. "Hello all, welcome. Please read before need! I have zero tolerance for ninjas and I have given you clear and fair warning, if you need my gear....You WILL get kicked. Now lets play!" If we're both the same class then may the best dude/chick win.

 

In MY opinion to the *companion looter* I'll just say: Dude...Players have priority over companions, if you want comp gear then wait until everyone greeds or passes before asking "Mind if I need for my comp?" I guarantee that they'll say "idc go ahead" ...Best not to make enemies on a game that does not allow cross server FPs >.<

Edited September 2, 2012 by Fayrelle

[RKLimes]

I understand where you're coming from, but let me offer an alternate viewpoint.

 

If everyone Greeds, everyone has an equal chance of getting the loot.

 

If everyone Needs, everyone has an equal chance of getting the loot.

 

So there has to be something to distinguish between when you would Need on a roll and when you would Greed on a roll. WIth most of the people I've grouped with, the difference is, "will the item in question be a direct upgrade to your primary character in the flashpoint/op right now." Everything else is generally greeded.

 

I myself also have highly geared companions, but most of this came from Rakata drops doing EC, when everyone in the run already had Rakata so the loot drops were all "greed" rolls. If I ever run an HM EV or HM KP, there is most likely going to be someone else in the group who can use that Rakata drop and I personally consider their primary character's gear more important than my companion. Mostly because their companions won't be helping us through future operations.

 

Doesn't this seem like a fair approach?

 

Perfectly fair in an operation. This is the case because you generally go into an operation with a pre-determined set of rules regarding loot distribution. If I find myself in an op where I wouldn't need anything it's to help someone else, (friend or guildie,) get something they need. However I'm not on a charity drive to help people I don't know gear up. I don't pug ops unless I have a need. If I do, I'll tell them what I'm after.

 

As for "will the item in question be a direct upgrade to your primary character in the flashpoint/op right now." I'm not rolling need for alts, and if companion gear is why I'm there, that's what I'm rolling need on. I'm also passing on all aim gear and likely rolling on far fewer pieces overall. I wont be in a group needing on multiple gear sets. That's just being a loot barb.

 

The greed button is for when you don't need the item. ie: Vendor/GTN

[RKLimes]

In MY opinion to the *companion looter* I'll just say: Dude...Players have priority over companions, if you want comp gear then wait until everyone greeds or passes before asking "Mind if I need for my comp?" I guarantee that they'll say "idc go ahead" ...Best not to make enemies on a game that does not allow cross server FPs >.<

 

I don't have a problem with anything in your first paragraph. Laziness and ignorance are not excuses.

 

As for the second, I appreciate that you feel that way but if the reason I'm running the FP at all is for an item with cunning on it, them's the breaks. Sometimes you're in a group with someone who needs the same item you do, and sometimes you're the only one. If you want to tailor make a group of people who all need separate loot, you're more than welcome to do so.

Edited September 2, 2012 by RKLimes

[Cleet_Xia]

Of all the many, many times someone has ask the group, "can I need for a comp?" I don't think I've ever said no.

 

But there isn't enough hate in the whole wide world for a ninja !!

 

& something is seriously messed up when you..

~ do 3 HMs back to back with an ungeared friend, that you know to be trustworthy, only to...

~ find out they didn't get a single piece of new gear.

[RKLimes]

Of all the many, many times someone has ask the group, "can I need for a comp?" I don't think I've ever said no.

 

But there isn't enough hate in the whole wide world for a ninja !!

 

Ninjas are d-bags, but if you don't trust the master looter, don't let him stay the master looter.

[grallmate]

Just to clarify, I don't need anything from FPs anymore. I only ever run them for BH comms so trust me, I'm not concerned about you ninjaing loot I might need. I'm concerned with you being a tool to other players who could ACTUALLY use that loot. I don't enjoy playing with tools, simple as that.

 

If you want a specific piece of gear for your companion, then mention it at the start BUT accept that if someone else needs it for themselves then you do not have priority in the eyes of the group. If you bring your comp into a FP then you have more claim for "Need"ing for them but otherwise its just greedy and selfish to take it for a comp over an actual player.

 

On a side note, what about when all your companions are geared? Are you gonna then keep needing to optimize them? What about when they're all optimized, are you gonna keep needing and claiming its for your companions?

 

I can't stop you doing it, so I've tried to appeal to your sense of honor, dignity and morality. Seems you lack all those while hiding behind your keyboard and I am glad I am not on your server as a result.

[RKLimes]

Just to clarify, I don't need anything from FPs anymore. I only ever run them for BH comms so trust me, I'm not concerned about you ninjaing loot I might need. I'm concerned with you being a tool to other players who could ACTUALLY use that loot. I don't enjoy playing with tools, simple as that.

 

If you want a specific piece of gear for your companion, then mention it at the start BUT accept that if someone else needs it for themselves then you do not have priority in the eyes of the group. If you bring your comp into a FP then you have more claim for "Need"ing for them but otherwise its just greedy and selfish to take it for a comp over an actual player.

 

On a side note, what about when all your companions are geared? Are you gonna then keep needing to optimize them? What about when they're all optimized, are you gonna keep needing and claiming its for your companions?

 

I can't stop you doing it, so I've tried to appeal to your sense of honor, dignity and morality. Seems you lack all those while hiding behind your keyboard and I am glad I am not on your server as a result.

 

When it gets to the point you mention, I wont be doing FPs anymore. As I stated, I'm not there for charity, I'm there because I'm looking to squeeze some purpose out of this game. You'll also notice in a previous post I mentioned that I would be happy to let someone (who isn't a douche) have the item they're looking for if they mention it when I make my intentions clear. I went so far as to say I'd even offer them another run if they didn't get the item.. which yes, I've done.

 

The fact that you place little value on your companion's loot is of no consequence. We are all entitled to play with our own priorities.

 

Also, it's not ninja looting. The dice aren't rigged, we would have fair chance on the roll. My time is worth no less than the other 3 people in the group. I invested as much in the FP as the next fella.

 

At any rate it sounds like you play with at least one tool in every group by default.

 

Finally, my companions are geared beyond FPs anyway, I'm just making a point on principle.

[grallmate]

Finally, my companions are geared beyond FPs anyway, I'm just making a point on principle.

 

Then why bother posting? Stop encouraging people to act badly and insisting that its fine. This is a multiplayer game so stop acting like you're the only one that matters.

 

I rarely PUG and when I do I can count the number of times I've had someone need loot they couldn't use but I could and win on 1 hand. It was twice. Both times they were appologetic. I haven't grouped with anyone yes who needed for a companion without first asking, but I have lost count of the number of times people have asked before needing for a comp.

 

You are part of the entitlement generation and the minority.

[Brutal]

So I can't help but notice... that every other time I do a flashpoint, as the tank, my heavy armor drops get needed by cloth/medium wearing *** hats who can't use the gear. Often what happens when I call it out, they reply , "Oh, I will trade this bind on pickup item to you"... How you gonna trade it *** hat? How you gonna trade a soulbound item??

 

This has happened to me 6-7 times now like clockwork with completely different people (Mainly because I tend to block idiots) altho one time.. first time this happened actually... this sentinel, it's like his mother stuck a spike in his head, he took like 3 freaking pieces from me alone in one run along with someones cloth armor, shame on me for staying in that group but Jesus Christ how stupid can you get... Last night was the last straw for me, when a pair of pants dropped that look similar to a skirt in the picture and the assassin in the group hit need... "Oh let me trade that too you, I didn't read it woops." How you gonna trade that? Try it, see what happens, oh that's right, nothing because you're an idiot.

 

My solution to this problem? Sadly, please don't hate me for this, I really do hate to compare that filth to this awesome game.... But look at Blizzards looting system in World of Warcraft...*Punches himself in face* need only if you can use, greed for everyone... I hate to say it, but it's practical, and fairly idiot proof... and although lower gear may not matter too much, it's nice for looks since we have mods apparently for that specific reason, it shouldn't take me 20 runs in the same FP just to acquire something I should have had the first time, this kind of thing just shouldn't be a problem, yet apparently people can't read the bright red letters.. :/

 

Thank you for taking the time to address my problem with your otherwise extremely well built game, I do really enjoy playing it, but this makes me rage quit every time for 3 days or better. I Think you guys are doing a great job and I appreciate your time on this matter. Thanks!

-Jack

 

i have 5 alts that need columi i run hm's with my higly geared healer need on most of stuff as i send it to them

[AshlaBoga]

i have 5 alts that need columi i run hm's with my higly geared healer need on most of stuff as i send it to them

 

Suggestion: Don't waste money by sending Columi mods to your alts. I'd actually suggest not even sending Rakata mods. Black Hole gear is easy to acquire since 1.3 so you should just gear you alts (for PvE) with Black-Hole gear rather than sending them Columi gear which they will replace after running a couple of HM Ops.

[Asavrede]

It's little kids that get picked on in school and that is their only way of lashing out at other people. Just saying no to pickup groups is the only solution available to you.

 

Or, you know, people make mistakes. I've misclicked/misread once or twice myself.

 

i have 5 alts that need columi i run hm's with my higly geared healer need on most of stuff as i send it to them

 

Or that, but that's seriously uncool if someone in the group can use it on the character they're on. That kind of thing requires the group to agree on it beforehand, or there'll be fisticuffs

Edited September 3, 2012 by Asavrede

[RKLimes]

Then why bother posting? Stop encouraging people to act badly and insisting that its fine. This is a multiplayer game so stop acting like you're the only one that matters.

 

I rarely PUG and when I do I can count the number of times I've had someone need loot they couldn't use but I could and win on 1 hand. It was twice. Both times they were appologetic. I haven't grouped with anyone yes who needed for a companion without first asking, but I have lost count of the number of times people have asked before needing for a comp.

 

You are part of the entitlement generation and the minority.

 

To quote you, "This is a multiplayer game so stop acting like you're the only one that matters." As such, there are many ways to play the game, and if someone's way includes spending time on their companions, they should be more than able to do so. What makes one person's time worth more than another's? What makes you entitled to loot that a group of 4 people have earned? Is it not more fair than anyone that has a use for said item, and spent the time earning it, should be given fair chance at winning it? Does it not define entitlement to say "you can't roll, because I deserve it more?"

 

I may be part of the minority, because I'm all for fairness and equality based on time, and not perceived priority. but odds are I'm far older than you think. I'm not about to defend your position on age granting argumentative superiority, but let's be serious for a minute, you're in no position to assume moral superiority either. I've stated many times that I announce my intentions right away, I yield items to people who ask politely, and I'm more than willing to be helpful when someone is in need.

[Llama-Eight]

Leave Brittany alone guys!

 

Brittany's quite nice, we went on holiday there last year (though driving from the Channel Tunnel's a pain when you've got 3 young kids in the back of the car.

 

My solution to this problem? Sadly, please don't hate me for this, I really do hate to compare that filth to this awesome game.... But look at Blizzards looting system in World of Warcraft...*Punches himself in face* need only if you can use, greed for everyone... I hate to say it, but it's practical, and fairly idiot proof

So they didn't understand what the Need/Greed buttons were for on the loot popup thing?

[Khevar]

To quote you, "This is a multiplayer game so stop acting like you're the only one that matters." As such, there are many ways to play the game, and if someone's way includes spending time on their companions, they should be more than able to do so. What makes one person's time worth more than another's? What makes you entitled to loot that a group of 4 people have earned? Is it not more fair than anyone that has a use for said item, and spent the time earning it, should be given fair chance at winning it? Does it not define entitlement to say "you can't roll, because I deserve it more?"

 

I may be part of the minority, because I'm all for fairness and equality based on time, and not perceived priority. but odds are I'm far older than you think. I'm not about to defend your position on age granting argumentative superiority, but let's be serious for a minute, you're in no position to assume moral superiority either. I've stated many times that I announce my intentions right away, I yield items to people who ask politely, and I'm more than willing to be helpful when someone is in need.

Again, I do understand where you're coming from.

 

Earlier you seemed to agree with my point about ops but felt that a pug HMFP would be handled differently.

 

Here's my personal viewpoint on the matter:

 

A pug HMFP drops Columi.

If your main has Columi you can run Ops.

Companions cannot run Ops

If someone else's main in a pug can directly benefit from a Columi drop, it will help then run Ops

You still get Columi tokens and BH comms which can be used to gear your companions

 

Again, this is just my personal viewpoint. I operate this way, as I consider it courteous and logical. I also pug frequently and my 3 level 50s all have well-geared companions.

 

I might be just as deserving as the loot drop as the others, but since I'm getting comms anyway, I'm happy to see them upgrade their main. If they're a good player I might friend them to fill in missing slots in an ops, too.

 

Anyway, just my $0.02

[RKLimes]

Again, I do understand where you're coming from.

 

Earlier you seemed to agree with my point about ops but felt that a pug HMFP would be handled differently.

 

Here's my personal viewpoint on the matter:

 

A pug HMFP drops Columi.

If your main has Columi you can run Ops.

Companions cannot run Ops

If someone else's main in a pug can directly benefit from a Columi drop, it will help then run Ops

You still get Columi tokens and BH comms which can be used to gear your companions

 

Again, this is just my personal viewpoint. I operate this way, as I consider it courteous and logical. I also pug frequently and my 3 level 50s all have well-geared companions.

 

I might be just as deserving as the loot drop as the others, but since I'm getting comms anyway, I'm happy to see them upgrade their main. If they're a good player I might friend them to fill in missing slots in an ops, too.

 

Anyway, just my $0.02

 

As mentioned, I'm more than happy to pass on some loot for someone that needs it, and I have no problem helping people out. Provided they're not D-Bags about it. That's me being a nice guy.. I'm only saying that each person in the group has equally earned the right to roll. Thinking otherwise is selfish.

[Brutal]

Or, you know, people make mistakes. I've misclicked/misread once or twice myself.

 

 

 

Or that, but that's seriously uncool if someone in the group can use it on the character they're on. That kind of thing requires the group to agree on it beforehand, or there'll be fisticuffs

 

 

why un cool i could use my low geared lvl 50 healer or just go with my fully augmented bh healer and make life much easier for all not to mentsion this way we finish fp much faster i got my first full columi when it was hard to get it taken me 3 months in random grups fp and over 200 runs of difrent fp do u think i do this naw days for fun (i was un gilded so had no chanse of geting in ops grup) if i run a fp its for a reson only becos i chrosen to take my v best geared toon for it dont mean i dont need the loot same way as others

[Fubarge]

You want groups that put your need's ahead of their own? make friends and play with them.

 

You want to just click a button and get put in my group? no problem at all. If I happen to need a piece of companion loot, I'm not going to ask for your permission.

 

And hey, if I don't hold the door open for you, or let you cut me in line at the store because you only have 1 thing and I have a cart full, feel free to go whine about it on a forum somewhere.

 

I don't want to play with people in Tionese/Recruit gear or worse but that's the risk I take joining group finder.

[Petnil]

When people missclick need on an item just ask them nicely to make a ticket. Problem solved.

If it wasn´t a missclick then ofc your f...ed.

[Khevar]

Other thoughts I had on "gearing for companions"

 

1. HM FPs with friends or guildies who are going for the BH comms is a great way to gear your companions.

2. Using your Columi commendations is a great way to gear your companions.

3. Story Mode EC on farm is a great way to gear your companions to level 58 gear, as your group most likely has Rakata anyway.

4. Pug HMFPs is a poor way to gear your companions.

 

I have 3 level 50s who's primary companions are in Rakata and have other companions in Columi. It was super-easy to do. Didn't require needing on Columi token drops with pug HMFPs.

 

While I may have earned the "right" to the loot by participating in the HMFP, I am more likely to give the gear away to anyone else that needs it. That's a different viewpoint than "I'm going to need on it UNLESS the other person asks politely."

 

It's an attitude thing. I don't consider that "I have an equal right to all loot". I consider "I like having as many highly geared players as possible on my sever."

 

One of these viewpoints makes a great community and makes it easier to do group content. The other makes it easier to solo content, which is the only reason (imo) to have highly-geared companions anyway.

[RKLimes]

Assuming gearing companions isn't all there is left to do.

While I may have earned the "right" to the loot by participating in the HMFP, I am more likely to give the gear away to anyone else that needs it.

 

That's all I'm saying. You have the right to it, just like everyone else.. That you chose to pass it to the needy is one of the equally valid choices.

Edited September 4, 2012 by RKLimes

[Khevar]

Assuming gearing companions isn't all there is left to do.

 

 

That's all I'm saying. You have the right to it, just like everyone else.. That you chose to pass it to the needy is one of the equally valid choices.

Fair enough. Let me restate my position then.

 

Looking back in your earlier posts, it sounds like you're arguing a point of principle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm getting:

 

"If I choose to run a HMFP to gear up my companion, then my 'need' roll is just as valid as someone else trying to gear up their main."

 

I believe the key point here, is that someone is choosing to run the HMFP specifically to gear up a companion, and that is the reason why they're there, so they are entitled to any loot drops that would gear up that companion.

 

I would say that choosing to run a HMFP with a pug group, for the purpose of gearing up your companion, is itself a selfish act. Here's why:

 

Mastering end-game operations requires better gear for your main. It does not require better gear for your companion.

 

And as I mentioned in an earlier post, there are better ways than a pug HMFP to gear up a companion.

 

Heck, I could just as easily say: "I'm choosing to pug a HMFP so I can get Columi tokens and sell them at the vendor for cash. Because this is the reason I chose to do the HMFP, I'm just as entitled to the loop drop as anyone else."

 

Now, I don't expect you to agree with me, as you have made your position very clear. But there are other people reading this thread, some of them may be new to the game and want to learn about loot distribution. Anyone can make up their minds to do anything they want -- but my wish is that people consider that gear for a main is more important than gear for a companion.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Khevar