Iggster Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Although I wish they would give us more information on future projects planned for next year. I can understand why they are remaining tight lipped. Especially after the whole bonus content fiasco with Battlefield 3. (for those unaware I will explain). DICE remained tight lipped about a mystery bonus content and people were begging for details (much like what is happening with TOR). Well some people took to asking the Battlefield people on twitter who started saying stuff like "you won't be disappointed" "prepare to be blown away". Naturally people took this information the wrong way and started speculating what amazing piece of content they will receive. However, when DICE released the content it was no where near as good as the hype people dreamed up. Loads of posts flooded the forum filled with outraged players who dreamt up something from nothing. Bioware may be keeping their projects closely guarded to avoid a similar situation. Although that being said, I am a firm believer that the cash shop will be higher on their to do list for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 For some, hearing nothing and not hearing what they want to hear can be one in the same. And even if they did hear what they wanted to hear they'd either call it spin or a flat out lie, or continue working down an unending dirty laundry list. Like cockroaches from the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comics ... there's always more where that came from. Bioware won't ever get it right for them because they won't allow that to happen. They could tell us exactly how F2P is going to work (they have to tell us eventually, even if it's the day after it goes F2P ). Which would be nice. They could tell us a JTL expansion was in the works. They could tell us their amazing new idea for RvRvR. The problem is I've seen this before, Mythic EA wasn't the most forthcoming, but as Mythic EA morphed into Bioware Mythic EA and then just Bioware EA, the communication in WAR got worse. I honestly think they might have reduced the rate of WARs subscription decline by 50% if they'd genuinely engaged with the players. They could even just make more use of polls if they are terrorified of actually talking to the players because of percived promised etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm certain you're right, and some people are like that. Just please be careful not to lump everyone that demands more from Bioware into that group. Losing the number of customers this game has, it's obvious they have issues.Excellent point, and I honestly try to avoid stereotyping. The number of people who carry themselves like that are decreasing. Fortunately they are but a handful. I would never expect any technology company to drop trou and give everyone a good look-see under the hood - regardless of where the pressure to do so comes from. Unfortunately expecting that level of interaction may not be very realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Save the post grad aggrandizing for someone else, skip. It does not enhance your argument, but diminish your contention. I was not even replying to you. Again, not sure if senile or just trolling. Perhaps you forget your original reply to my post, stating that you basically had no intention to bother listening to my opinion unless I stated my educational credentials. When one responds in a hostile manner, one is responded to in kind. Furthermore, my point stands. I am not sure if you actively believe that most successful companies , when faced with significant customer dissatisfaction, actively undertake to do almost nothing in terms of clear long range communication on how to address issues, but it's not a strategy I've ever seen. When LOTRO ran into trouble and went F2P, they laid out why, what the clear advantages were, and how they planned to do it. When STO and CO when F2P, they had dozens upon dozens of detailed logs on the transition, the thinking behind it, and scads of communication on the goals of the cash store and the separation between paid sub and free players, even significantly changing their plans to accommodate player feedback. EQ2 put forth information about specific changes and alterations. Good lord, even ancient Anarchy Online did a masterful job of the transition in regards to communications exactly where the value was to keep your sub above and beyond "more bank space". When you take a look at the so-called matrix we have now, there isn't a single compelling reason for someone to point and say "ah, there's $15 of value" because the only real difference is , based on the tiny scraps we know now, What the OP was stating is that many of the so-called "improvements" to the game since launch are of - Highly dubious value, such as the legacy perks that you can only pay for by running something beside your alts - Highly ineffective, such as GF that hardly does the task and laughable PVP changes that have only reinforced FOTM playstyles and an emphasis on gear and being in a PVP guild - Upgrades that were argued for months and months on end before grudgingly being added, like a simple link to your ship to bypass orbital stations that were far out of proportion in time it took to implement to their difficulty - A suggestion forum that is almost totally ignored - Communications that are frequent and yet, at the same time, hilariously vague, mostly consisting of "I checked with X person and we may do Y but we don't have a timeline around it, but it will be coming soon" I can grasp why some people can accept this (those who basically like the game) and others can't (those who are dissapointed in the game). What I fail to comprehend is this mindset that asking BW to do what they've claimed repeatedly that they were going to do, which is move away from grunt-like answers into a comprehensive model of actual communication. Lower down, someone posts some gold posts. They put me in mind of a quote from Foundation by Issac Asimov, in that when you remove all the hedging language and doubletalk you are left with nothing of substance. You encapsulated the entirety of the plausible reply in the first sentence. Losing 40% of their player base is the only indication required. It was not a point of contention regarding whether that number was viable or not, but that rambling on and on ad-nauseum, on a message board, regarding one's hate for a game and what must be done to personally tailor it to that particular individual does little to nothing. In merely confirms more about the complainer then the issues with the game....which you are also ignoring, taking at face value the contention of the complainer as being valid not only in and of itself, but across the board. Pagh, that isn't even an argument, it's dismissal because you like the way it's framed. Could the OP have been more coherent, yeah, sure. Is the thesis therefore utterly flawed? No. People aren't paying their sub because they hate the game, it's because they like the game and want to play it, but at some point if it's not fun anymore and you're not being told why things will change in a meaningful manner, people will leave. STO is a good example of this, in that (while things still suck in many ways) they communicated how they planned to add content and started on that right away. They tried at first to be vague, and got flamed for it, and then said "fine, here it is, and here's what we're doing". Oddly enough, despite the complaining and screaming, things calmed down a lot after that, and people started arguing over HOW to fix it rather than that it needed to be fixed, and the game today is MUCH MUCH better than it was prior to F2P on all levels. The problem (which I alluded to in another post I can't find right now, maybe later) is someone has too tight a rein on what is being put out there. And that implies they still don't grasp that the 40% did *NOT* walk because the price was too high, but that the value from their money was not high enough, especially with no one bothering to explain why you should put up with bugs, raids that won't even load your whole group, etc. As far as ignoring the complainer and focusing on his contention, what kind of metric is that? Why can't you use a similar concept to imply that anyone who is positive about the game is a fanboy or paid by BW and ignore all arguments, illogical or not, put forth by them? That's a road I avoid because it smacks of arrogant and dismissive thinking , and doesn't add to a discussion. If a person is trolling and just stirring trouble, then their argument will fall flat on it's face and everyone can see if has zero value. If a person is upset and posting poorly and has a solid point, the fact that he's engaging in histrionics (while not a good thing) doesn't invalidate his basic point! ....and yes, value relation is arguable.....unless you can find me a new Cadillac for the price of a Volkswagen. http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/new-cadillac-says-my-world-and-welcome-to-it/ Cadilac ATS, loaded Price $33,990, http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2012-volkswagen-passat-configurator-online-34k-fully-loaded-53299.html Volkswagen Passat, fully loaded Price, $34,000. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 We are in he entitlement age You pay a monthy subscription for a service you are ENTITLED to know what you are paying for. They game DOES owe players something, they pay for and continue to pay for it monthly. That does not mean they game needs to give players what they want always but it does mean the game needs to let players know what the direction is. Clearly the folks at SWTOR haven't done a good job since this game has lost so many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I meant this of course. - Highly dubious value, such as the legacy perks that you can only pay for by running something beside your alts - Highly ineffective, such as GF that hardly does the task and laughable PVP changes that have only reinforced FOTM playstyles and an emphasis on gear and being in a PVP guild - Upgrades that were argued for months and months on end before grudgingly being added, like a simple link to your ship to bypass orbital stations that were far out of proportion in time it took to implement to their difficulty - A suggestion forum that is almost totally ignored - Communications that are frequent and yet, at the same time, hilariously vague, mostly consisting of "I checked with X person and we may do Y but we don't have a timeline around it, but it will be coming soon" I updated my orginal post to reflect some of this that was said. Edited August 30, 2012 by DragonAgeOrgins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heechJunzi Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I think it's ultimately an issue of mindset. I'm afraid with EAs console background, they see customers as something to be "managed". Communication to us has to be carefully planned as part of a larger "campaign", with corporate vetting of the message, impact on brand, etc. it's a very one directional thing: game company markets to us, convinces us to buy a game. I'd argue a MMO should be different. I think successful / healthy MMOs *must* rely on two way communication. It has I be a partnership between dev team and player base, with quick iteration cycles based strictly on customer feedback (which can only be gathered by first giving customers a clear idea of whats happening). A healthy MMO, in my opinion, might go as far as publishing their dev project timeline + bug database, and letting the player base vote on changes or priorities. All in all, I suspect EA, especially an EA management team dealing with strategic issues for the company itself, aren't the right folks to oversee this project. Edited August 30, 2012 by heechJunzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Thats like saying to your boyfriend or girlfriend. I am not happy in this relationship. Can you give me an outline of why I should stay with you? Have you gotten addicted to the pain provided? Youre comparing a game to a relationship? Bad analogy. I dont pay my girlfriends. If you want to use that analogy then a better one would be... Thats like telling your frequent call girl...im not happy with your services, can you give me a reason to keep paying you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Although I wish they would give us more information on future projects planned for next year. I can understand why they are remaining tight lipped. Especially after the whole bonus content fiasco with Battlefield 3. (for those unaware I will explain). DICE remained tight lipped about a mystery bonus content and people were begging for details (much like what is happening with TOR). Well some people took to asking the Battlefield people on twitter who started saying stuff like "you won't be disappointed" "prepare to be blown away". Naturally people took this information the wrong way and started speculating what amazing piece of content they will receive. However, when DICE released the content it was no where near as good as the hype people dreamed up. Loads of posts flooded the forum filled with outraged players who dreamt up something from nothing. Bioware may be keeping their projects closely guarded to avoid a similar situation. Although that being said, I am a firm believer that the cash shop will be higher on their to do list for some time to come. More likely they are being tight lipped because they dont have anything good to say. What they have to say will probably piss off more people, causing them to lose even more subscribers. Remaining silent..atleast some of those subs, will stay subbed while waiting to hear whats comming. That window will close tighter though. Even some of the most die hards will quit, if they run out of stuff to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Urtani Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 We are in he entitlement age Paying up to $150 for the game and then a monthly fee on top of that, you're goddamn right we're entitled to a good game with good customer support and interactions between the devs and players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcron Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The only thing that seems dumb to me is that XP bonuses are supposed to be time savers... but to get those time savers you have to sink time into grinding dailies, it cancels itself out. I agree. Take a good amount of time to get to legacy 25 an they turn around an charge absurd prices. I don't do dailies so to me those prices are jacked way to high. Pvp is what I do, not run around and fight mobs to earn coin for a few hours. I don't find grinding dailies entertaining as I do pvp. So to the person that claims its reasonable I find it to exsessive when each match in a war zone only grants roughly 6k. I bet you would claim the same if those dailies only provided 5-6k coin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Paying up to $150 for the game and then a monthly fee on top of that, you're gosh darn right we're entitled to a good game with good customer support and interactions between the devs and players. This is why they "entitlement" strawman is so spurious. Taugrim's latest blob really outlines it's useage here (and everywhere). The reality is good communication is good communication, and Bioware EA would soothe a lost of fears and help retain players by spelling out the future of a LOT of things (F2P, SSSP, RvR etc. etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 That would be fitting though wouldn't it?! The irony of "entitlement". lol, please don't make funny jokes while I'm having breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaywardOne Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 This thread is boring. It's just a rehash of so many that came before (except it has lightsabers). Someone post something interesting or - I promise - I will stop reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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