A full absorb tank. I need help. I wasted my last 6 months :(

[Siorac]

WOW. I have never seen this before. Ever. I would think this is cheating.

 

500,000 protection? What? The other team must have really focused the healer. I asked some other tanks and healers what the most protection they have seen/received was the other day and nobody said over 300,000. Most said 200,000 max.

 

Give us some tips here buddy!

 

Never saw more than 300k protection? Seriously?

 

http://www.hydianway.eu/forum/attachments/screenshot_2012-06-14_02_23_45_349766.jpg

 

It was a Civil War, nobody capped mid until the very end. I didn't even have to do anything special, just keep Guard up and spam taunt. With better gear the score would have been even higher as I wouldn't have died 5 times.

[TheNegotiator]

80%? LOL, ok.. PvP Tanks should be geared to win the first dice roll. I'll just leave it at that..

 

Yeah I think it's about 80%. Only 1/8 classes (sniper or gunslinger) use ranged attacks almost exclusively, most classes use force or tech attack types. There is also rail shot/HIB which is white damage. Also factor in critical hits (25%-30% of all attacks) which cannot be shielded or defensed. I think 80% is about right when you factor everything in. Prove me wrong.

[L-RANDLE]

Yeah I think it's about 80%. Only 1/8 classes (sniper or gunslinger) use ranged attacks almost exclusively, most classes use force or tech attack types. There is also rail shot/HIB which is white damage. Also factor in critical hits (25%-30% of all attacks) which cannot be shielded or defensed. I think 80% is about right when you factor everything in. Prove me wrong.

Last I heard the majority of melee attacks are not force or tech and crit hits can be avoided on those in addition to ranged attacks, so that 80% is lol ok.... but ur the tank xpert right?

[NoaFlux]

Never saw more than 300k protection? Seriously?

 

http://www.hydianway.eu/forum/attachments/screenshot_2012-06-14_02_23_45_349766.jpg

 

It was a Civil War, nobody capped mid until the very end. I didn't even have to do anything special, just keep Guard up and spam taunt. With better gear the score would have been even higher as I wouldn't have died 5 times.

 

It's very rare. Might see it once a week. Play for two-three hours a day.

[NoaFlux]

Never saw more than 300k protection? Seriously?

 

http://www.hydianway.eu/forum/attachments/screenshot_2012-06-14_02_23_45_349766.jpg

 

It was a Civil War, nobody capped mid until the very end. I didn't even have to do anything special, just keep Guard up and spam taunt. With better gear the score would have been even higher as I wouldn't have died 5 times.

 

Also this is an extremely rare scenario and can obviously double your points because the match took EXTRA long.

[Midden]

Dear OP,

 

could not agree more, i am in the same boat as you, except I have more WH gear than you, just one implant to get.

 

Ive now stopped having any fun in PVP because my tank is fatally flawed in choosing the tank gear. No point to play anymore against the imbalance so i don't think I will ever get that last WH implant..

Edited August 28, 2012 by Midden

[Wassawp]

This is why Shadow Tanks are running in DPS Gear.

Tank Gear is freakin' useless in PvP. How about bioware fixes it ...

[Midden]

Yeah talk about more waste , I cancel my account, a tad too late, was on the 180 cyclic so have pre-paid until Jan 2013. However, I am not going to spend this next 6 months to re-grind to DPS PVP gear.

 

I am pretty much the last one left in the guild to turn off the lights.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Midden

[darh_halo]

@NoaFlux, I respect your persistence on your crusade for us tank in tank gears in PVP. I support you fully and please keep it up man !

 

I myself had done all the trials, mods switching, specs switching, rotation, etc, very costly and time consuming and I've come to conclusion that your points investment in DPS gear will outshine same amount of your points investment in tank gear i.e. def/shield/absorb. To me, the tank gear is still worth it in PVP and the rock-scissor-paper concept is great, it just that BW still need to tweak-improve def/shield/absorb stats in PVP a bit.

[Siorac]

It's very rare. Might see it once a week. Play for two-three hours a day.

 

It is very, very rare but you said earlier that it must be cheating. My point is that it's not cheating, it can be achieved quite easily in a long game.

[wadecounty]

First off I never cheat, much less at games and used to gripe at my son for using cheat codes on his games. I've actually been accused of cheating in Huttball a few times because of unstoppable to. I loathe cheaters.

 

That is my best score for protection ever (that was PUG to).. I have gotten over 300K many times, just a few 400k but never anything at almost 500K except for this instance. It came from a long standoff at the middle node in Civil War. They also attempted to focus me down at many points but we had so many healers that it was near impossible for them to kill me or the healers. (the primary healer I was guarding never died during that match BTW)

 

My current setup is focused primarily has a healer guard and huttball carrier.

 

Tips.. well first I could only really help with Jugg/Guardians as that has been my main from day one of release. However, I would start by using this spreadsheet from SWTOR Mechanics:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-615.html

Be sure to read the directions in the first forum post. That will help you balance your defenses for your class and get the most bang for your buck. (this spreadsheet has helped to balance and maximize my defenses)

 

Don't fall into the trap of sacrificing too much expertise. If you want to be a solid PvP guarding tank it's important to be tough and healable in PvP. After re-modding my WH gear + blue 48 fort buff I'm able to easily hit 24K health and still have 1291 Expertise + a good balance of defense stats.

 

I could actually get more damage in but I focus on protecting my healer(s), controlling objectives and containing opposing healers as much as possible. However I’m really not spec’d to do damage nor do I have any real DPS gear on in this build. I have used mixed Tank/DPS gear in the past and can say that I’m definitely tougher with the tank gear. Sure I could survive with a lot of DPS gear but only with good healers working harder than if I had been more tank geared. Defending a node with me guarding a great healer makes it near untakable with many folks focusing on us. Problem is finding the good healers and being in the right spot when you PUG a lot like myself.

 

One thing I will point out for my particular build.. I’m not so great when we have no healers on our team. I can hold out an objective better then most but I don’t really shine unless I have a good healer to guard.

 

I play on the same server as Ulliam, he is a good tank, but he also displays why gearing solely for tank gear is fatally flawed in any but the most coordinated premades/ranked groups (and acknowledges this himself), that being that he becomes useless in situations where his team needs more killing power.

 

I play a DPS spec'd Guardian and when I face Ulliam's team, I find myself routinely helping my team more than his because of my versatility to kill the enemy or be a tank on the fly. 80-90% of a Guardian/Juggernaut's tanking ability comes from Soresu stance I'd say in PvP, because of how useless Defense/Shield/Absorb are, and the other 10-20% is HP (I switch to Fort stim when I want to be a tank) and talents from our trees, most of the best ones which are found in the Vigilance/Vengeance tree.

 

I don't say this to say I'm a better player than Ulliam, rather, I used to play the same style he did (a pure tank in tank gear), and noticed the same amount (or lack thereof) of effectiveness to my team. I felt generally far less useful unless we had a very good healer I could dedicate my time to guarding.

 

And yet now, as a DPS spec, in mostly DPS gear (when "tanking", or guarding a healer, I'll slap on a shield, fort stim and tank chestpiece/belt just for a little boost), I find myself helping my team far more than I ever did as a pure tank.

 

Part of the issue is how bad the Guardian/Juggernaut tanking tree is, though that's another matter entirely... but part of it is how bad stats like Defense/Shield/Absorb are in PvP. What they ought to do is start incorporating the Resistance stat (which is supposed to be how you defend/shield against force/tech attacks), and maybe have Defense/Shield/Absorb add a percentage to your resistance. So for example, if 200 Defense gives you +10% Defense, it also gives you +5% Resistance to force and tech attacks.

[NoaFlux]

Dear OP,

 

could not agree more, i am in the same boat as you, except I have more WH gear than you, just one implant to get.

 

Ive now stopped having any fun in PVP because my tank is fatally flawed in choosing the tank gear. No point to play anymore against the imbalance so i don't think I will ever get that last WH implant..

 

I feel your pain. You shouldn't necessarily give up though. Just keep your eye out for healers, and make healer friends. You were met to work together.

 

When my healer friends are online and we group up together for PvP, as long as we work together (I guard them 24/7 they heal me), we almost always get in the top three. Just something to keep in mind

Edited August 28, 2012 by NoaFlux

[NoaFlux]

I got WH tank gear cept 4 peices Vindicator for bonus, hybrid spec and I pull 400k protection and 200-250k damage.

 

Tank gear is underrated.

 

I think many of us would like to know your secret.

 

My guess is..

1) pocket healer

2) u still use a lot of power augs

3) you are talking about a lucky or rare occasion

[NoaFlux]

I play on the same server as Ulliam, he is a good tank, but he also displays why gearing solely for tank gear is fatally flawed in any but the most coordinated premades/ranked groups (and acknowledges this himself), that being that he becomes useless in situations where his team needs more killing power.

 

I play a DPS spec'd Guardian and when I face Ulliam's team, I find myself routinely helping my team more than his because of my versatility to kill the enemy or be a tank on the fly. 80-90% of a Guardian/Juggernaut's tanking ability comes from Soresu stance I'd say in PvP, because of how useless Defense/Shield/Absorb are, and the other 10-20% is HP (I switch to Fort stim when I want to be a tank) and talents from our trees, most of the best ones which are found in the Vigilance/Vengeance tree.

 

I don't say this to say I'm a better player than Ulliam, rather, I used to play the same style he did (a pure tank in tank gear), and noticed the same amount (or lack thereof) of effectiveness to my team. I felt generally far less useful unless we had a very good healer I could dedicate my time to guarding.

 

And yet now, as a DPS spec, in mostly DPS gear (when "tanking", or guarding a healer, I'll slap on a shield, fort stim and tank chestpiece/belt just for a little boost), I find myself helping my team far more than I ever did as a pure tank.

 

Part of the issue is how bad the Guardian/Juggernaut tanking tree is, though that's another matter entirely... but part of it is how bad stats like Defense/Shield/Absorb are in PvP. What they ought to do is start incorporating the Resistance stat (which is supposed to be how you defend/shield against force/tech attacks), and maybe have Defense/Shield/Absorb add a percentage to your resistance. So for example, if 200 Defense gives you +10% Defense, it also gives you +5% Resistance to force and tech attacks.

 

Well said. The gear just needs to be better when it comes to absorb and resistance. And the skill tree part is important too. Those two things would help us out a lot if they were fixed by the Dev's.

 

I was going to suggest reworking your skill tree before a match (in the scnerio where a tank might need more damage) but then I realized why the tree is flawed...because it really doesn't give you more damage where it should..am i correct on this?

Edited August 28, 2012 by NoaFlux

[NoaFlux]

It is very, very rare but you said earlier that it must be cheating. My point is that it's not cheating, it can be achieved quite easily in a long game.

 

Point taken. I apologize, I wasn't trying to accuse you. I was just saying that it would be the first thing to pop into my mind after seeing a score like that.

 

Anyway. Congrats on the high score! That needs to be posted up somewhere on SWTOR.com by the Dev's!! Is there a high scores section?

[Dartmoose]

you can achieve that much protection without going into that rare and long wz. http://republicstrikesback.shivtr.com/gallery_images/478830

 

You do need a pretty good healer to hit those numbers, but the healer depends on you to survive

[UncleOst]

Ok so here's my problem.

 

I 've been playing a full tank, buying all War Hero Survivor Gear (absorption rated) for the past 3 months. I have 75% War Hero.

 

I regret it and am very angry at BW.

 

Even though with a healer, or great guarding skills I can get 125,000 damage, and 100,000 protection on average (though it's usually a little less). I feel like it's not worth it. I play with other DPS guardians (who where Mysitcs gear...Power) and get 300,000 damage and 200,000 protection...even if they only get 100,000 that is great I struggle to get 100,000 often.

 

Yes I have read ALL the blogs about how absorption is a waste, but I had FAITH in this company that it would make SOME difference...and heard it did make SOME difference. I believe when this is looked into that it's a 100% waste.

 

My conclusion sadly is it makes no difference at all, and that it actually makes your player (toon) much worst since you have to do so much extra work just to get your damage up...

 

Should I ask for all my credits back for every single piece of gear? Should I just give up?

I'm not about to start grinding all over again!! This is BW's fault. They should either remove this gear from the game

or make it stronger. For me, a customer who had a little faith in the game mechanics, I feel cheated.

 

So again should I get my money back? I probably will just quit the game all together if I can't. Such a waste of time...

 

Please advise, thnks!

 

AND YES I TUANT 24/7 and guard healers etc!!!

 

Man I tell ya...

There's nothing better than using retaliation when faced against shields/bubbles.

I love it when a sent/mara has undying rage up and low hp, thinking they will be safe. All you have to do is have retaliation available and Bam.

 

I've considered raising my defence abilities with full defence augs(rage dps spec) just to see what kind of numbers it would yield. I probably won't lol, but it always pops up with the defence cool down.

 

So try a dps spec, keep that defence gear...slowly modify?

 

So respec try rage for a few days and report back here with some numbers. I'd like to see how often retaliation procs for ya.

[L-RANDLE]

With the vast amount of melee and FOTM rerollers infesting WZ's lately, saying defense is a useless stat is misguided (as there are no players walking around with 150%+ accuracy). Also most force/tech attacks are kinetic or energy damage which is directly mitigated by armor rating (shadows/sins have lower rating, but are compensated with force/tech resistance talents/skills).

 

You don't need a pocket healer to be an effective tank in a PuG. You only need a healer to inflate meaningless stats(for the most part). When you tank in PvP, you sign up to do the dirty work in a WZ. You should be guarding/peeling/taunting whoever is at the point with you, and using your tank gear, along with your mitigation talents, to stay alive as long as possible.

 

Even "Ramboing"(see sign line) into a group of enemies to keep them busy for awhile. In my defense heavy set, I lasted 20+ globals at mid on alderaan against four players. We capped right soon after I died. All by myself. With 5 out of 14 pieces un-augmented/unoptimized, two rak implants, one columi earpiece, and 541EXP. If tanking stats are that screwed up, it never should have happened, but it did so I must be cheating too.

 

Could they be baddies? Sure, but its more than likely a typical PuG, and lasting that many globals by yourself is ridiculous, imagine if we got a shield/absorb buff (playing a Sage for so long forged me into a pretty nasty(not trying to gloat) Guardian tank and I still have a long way to go gear-wise and playstyle-wise, I been on him for around three weeks so far). In order to be a good tank, you have to want to be a good tank and it has nothing to do with stats or damage boards. Be satified in the subtleties of PvP, i.e. making zergminded peeps waste tons of globals trying to kill you. That is just as effective as "adding" DPS gear or specs.

 

While I'll agree that the WH tier needs some restructuring (BW!!! please actually mirror the BM stat allocation please), and shield/absorb mechanics could use some tweaking, peeling, taunting, controlling is just as effective in a PuG, as it is in a premade now. If they change shield/absorb, we might be unkillable.

 

TL:DR

1. Defense is a VERY viable stat in PvP

2. Its hard to justify Pure Tanking is not as good as Hybrid Tanking.

3. Bioware needs to mirror BM stat allocation on WH pieces, and tweak shield absorb slightly.

[Ulliam]

I play on the same server as Ulliam, he is a good tank, but he also displays why gearing solely for tank gear is fatally flawed in any but the most coordinated premades/ranked groups (and acknowledges this himself), that being that he becomes useless in situations where his team needs more killing power.

 

I play a DPS spec'd Guardian and when I face Ulliam's team, I find myself routinely helping my team more than his because of my versatility to kill the enemy or be a tank on the fly. 80-90% of a Guardian/Juggernaut's tanking ability comes from Soresu stance I'd say in PvP, because of how useless Defense/Shield/Absorb are, and the other 10-20% is HP (I switch to Fort stim when I want to be a tank) and talents from our trees, most of the best ones which are found in the Vigilance/Vengeance tree.

 

I don't say this to say I'm a better player than Ulliam, rather, I used to play the same style he did (a pure tank in tank gear), and noticed the same amount (or lack thereof) of effectiveness to my team. I felt generally far less useful unless we had a very good healer I could dedicate my time to guarding.

 

And yet now, as a DPS spec, in mostly DPS gear (when "tanking", or guarding a healer, I'll slap on a shield, fort stim and tank chestpiece/belt just for a little boost), I find myself helping my team far more than I ever did as a pure tank.

 

Part of the issue is how bad the Guardian/Juggernaut tanking tree is, though that's another matter entirely... but part of it is how bad stats like Defense/Shield/Absorb are in PvP. What they ought to do is start incorporating the Resistance stat (which is supposed to be how you defend/shield against force/tech attacks), and maybe have Defense/Shield/Absorb add a percentage to your resistance. So for example, if 200 Defense gives you +10% Defense, it also gives you +5% Resistance to force and tech attacks.

 

Well said and I do agree.

 

I've completed my fully re-modded tank WH outfit at this point and have already started on a DPS WH re-modded outfit. So in the near future I'll be experimenting with a hybrid tank/DPS outfit/build or maybe even going back to full DPS for awhile once my DPS WH outfit is ready.

 

When I first hit 50 PVP I was full DPS Rage, then later moved to Veng and around when 1.2 hit went full hybrid tank. I really enjoyed the Veng spec, think that was my favorite.

[TheNegotiator]

Last I heard the majority of melee attacks are not force or tech and crit hits can be avoided on those in addition to ranged attacks, so that 80% is lol ok.... but ur the tank xpert right?

 

Soooooo...you think that saber attacks can be shielded huh? Why don't you go try it...I have already...and it does not work. I'm talking about regular weapon damage saber attacks like zealous strike. I've tested it in duels and my shields would not come on at all...even when my shielding is at 45%...not a single proc. Saber attacks can however be dodged...but not shielded. So once again, the only good shield/absorb does in PvP is slow down snipers/gunslingers. Don't believe me go test it out yourself.

[NoaFlux]

Man I tell ya...

There's nothing better than using retaliation when faced against shields/bubbles.

I love it when a sent/mara has undying rage up and low hp, thinking they will be safe. All you have to do is have retaliation available and Bam.

 

I've considered raising my defence abilities with full defence augs(rage dps spec) just to see what kind of numbers it would yield. I probably won't lol, but it always pops up with the defence cool down.

 

So try a dps spec, keep that defence gear...slowly modify?

 

So respec try rage for a few days and report back here with some numbers. I'd like to see how often retaliation procs for ya.

 

Actually I'm doing this. I will let you know if the defense helps. I will look in my combat log. I decided to just finish going all the way since I only have a couple more pieces to go, and I have almost all aug slots. I am equipping all def and power...after double checking at Mr. Robot.

[Nomerath]

I think many of us would like to know your secret.

 

My guess is..

1) pocket healer

2) u still use a lot of power augs

3) you are talking about a lucky or rare occasion

 

1) 2 healers, none which was in my pocket because they were too busy healing themselves and the team but I guarded them against 3 vanguards that were on their nuts, than and used my taunts whenever they were up

2) half augs are 18str/12end and other half 18end/12pow

3) it was a pretty long civil war wz where we fought for the middle node half the match

Edited August 28, 2012 by Nomerath

[NoaFlux]

With the vast amount of melee and FOTM rerollers infesting WZ's lately, saying defense is a useless stat is misguided (as there are no players walking around with 150%+ accuracy). Also most force/tech attacks are kinetic or energy damage which is directly mitigated by armor rating (shadows/sins have lower rating, but are compensated with force/tech resistance talents/skills).

 

You don't need a pocket healer to be an effective tank in a PuG. You only need a healer to inflate meaningless stats(for the most part). When you tank in PvP, you sign up to do the dirty work in a WZ. You should be guarding/peeling/taunting whoever is at the point with you, and using your tank gear, along with your mitigation talents, to stay alive as long as possible.

 

Even "Ramboing"(see sign line) into a group of enemies to keep them busy for awhile. In my defense heavy set, I lasted 20+ globals at mid on alderaan against four players. We capped right soon after I died. All by myself. With 5 out of 14 pieces un-augmented/unoptimized, two rak implants, one columi earpiece, and 541EXP. If tanking stats are that screwed up, it never should have happened, but it did so I must be cheating too.

 

Could they be baddies? Sure, but its more than likely a typical PuG, and lasting that many globals by yourself is ridiculous, imagine if we got a shield/absorb buff (playing a Sage for so long forged me into a pretty nasty(not trying to gloat) Guardian tank and I still have a long way to go gear-wise and playstyle-wise, I been on him for around three weeks so far). In order to be a good tank, you have to want to be a good tank and it has nothing to do with stats or damage boards. Be satified in the subtleties of PvP, i.e. making zergminded peeps waste tons of globals trying to kill you. That is just as effective as "adding" DPS gear or specs.

 

While I'll agree that the WH tier needs some restructuring (BW!!! please actually mirror the BM stat allocation please), and shield/absorb mechanics could use some tweaking, peeling, taunting, controlling is just as effective in a PuG, as it is in a premade now. If they change shield/absorb, we might be unkillable.

 

TL:DR

1. Defense is a VERY viable stat in PvP

2. Its hard to justify Pure Tanking is not as good as Hybrid Tanking.

3. Bioware needs to mirror BM stat allocation on WH pieces, and tweak shield absorb slightly.

 

I agree with all of this for the most part. I understand the value of a tank. Heck I'm one, and a decent one at that. I just played three WZ's and finished in the top 3 every time (though at times I'm not this lucky). The problem really comes down to fairness. A power based tank (equipped with shield etc. but non absorb stats), tank of the same level, caliber etc. can do more dam/protect than everything we can do. Point is I'm thinking...if they can get the same NUMBERS as me...why did I choose this gear? That's the point. They get way more damage. We get no credit for having ABSORB.

 

should be like this>

300,000 dam or 300,000 healing or 300,000 protection...but it's usually only 100,000 protection on a good day, and maybe 150,000 plus on a great day. Obviously all these numbers fluctuate. But that is close to what they are. See. It makes us look bad, and I have been harrassed many times because the numbers don't justify my playing. I feel bad for people who can't take it. I can but others can't. I'm sure they get harassed and leave the game all together. So BW fix this.

 

At the end of the day the gear needs improvement. Or the numbers on the screen need to represent our TRUE value. You say...we do the dirty work...well something at the end of the match should represent it! Do you like doing work and not getting credit? Everyone else in the game does...

 

I'm not 100% sure how this could be fixed, and I enjoy the game a lot, but I feel I wasted my time. If i could have got the other gear..I would be doing better overall. I never knew when I first signed up that it would be like this. I feel like I'm not getting credit for the ABSORB either. What is it's use? Obviously everyone else can last awhile if they can kill the people attacking them.

 

I'm going to go all the way since I'm almost there. And I'm sure my numbers will improve a little (three pieces left). But I can't help but feel a little bit cheated.

Edited August 28, 2012 by NoaFlux

[UncleOst]

Actually I'm doing this. I will let you know if the defense helps. I will look in my combat log. I decided to just finish going all the way since I only have a couple more pieces to go, and I have almost all aug slots. I am equipping all def and power...after double checking at Mr. Robot.

 

Very kool.

Thanks.

[NoaFlux]

you can achieve that much protection without going into that rare and long wz. http://republicstrikesback.shivtr.com/gallery_images/478830

 

You do need a pretty good healer to hit those numbers, but the healer depends on you to survive

 

It is rare. You need to give more info please.

 

I just played 6 WZ and the highest I saw was 120,000 and I only saw it once in all 6 matches. The second highest was 80,000 by me (I had to leave the healer a couple times to go rescue a turret since I'm fast).

 

Also neither of those (in pict) are my class. I'm a consular.

 

So again more info would be nice! Posting pictures is great but you need to back it up with strategy and gear or we might assume you just got lucky...really lucky.

 

When I have a good healer I max at about 125,000 average. Got 175,000 once. When I get the last couple pieces of my gear I might get 225,000 if I'm lucky. How you hit 300,000 and call it normal I'm not sure.

Edited August 28, 2012 by NoaFlux