A full absorb tank. I need help. I wasted my last 6 months :(

[TheronFett]

Yes I have read ALL the blogs about how absorption is a waste, but I had FAITH in this company that it would make SOME difference.

 

Hmm...

 

You knew that defense stats were basically a waste in PvP and you did it anyway on the basis of "faith" that BioWare would one day make it work. And now you're mad?

 

[TheronFett]

And to all those posting about WoW. Their forums are this way ----> Edited August 24, 2012 by TheronFett

[Valorman]

Ok so here's my problem.

 

I 've been playing a full tank, buying all War Hero Survivor Gear (absorption rated) for the past 3 months. I have 75% War Hero.

 

I regret it and am very angry at BW.

 

Even though with a healer, or great guarding skills I can get 125,000 damage, and 100,000 protection on average (though it's usually a little less). I feel like it's not worth it. I play with other DPS guardians (who where Mysitcs gear...Power) and get 300,000 damage and 200,000 protection...even if they only get 100,000 that is great I struggle to get 100,000 often.

 

Yes I have read ALL the blogs about how absorption is a waste, but I had FAITH in this company that it would make SOME difference. I believe when this is looked into that it is a 100% waste.

 

My conclusion sadly is it makes no difference at all, and that it actually makes your player (toon) much worst since you have to do so much extra work just to get your damage up...

 

Should I ask for all my credits back for every single piece of gear? Should I just give up?

I'm not about to start grinding all over again!! This is BW's fault. They should either remove this gear from the game

or make it stronger. For me, a customer who had a little faith in the game mechanics, I feel cheated.

 

So again should I get my money back? I probably will just quit the game all together if I can't. Such a waste of time...

 

Please advise, thnks!

 

AND YES I TUANT 24/7 and guard healers etc!!!

 

if theyre in DPS gear and getting more protection that a war hero tank its something you are doing wrong then maybe you're out of tanking range or the fact that you guard healers who are away from the fight, maybe its who you're guarding can you give us a sample of your gameplay?

[Blasphemerr]

You waited 6 months gearing up a tank before reading how stats work? You lie sir, you lie. No refunds.

[Jayshames]

I've had quite a few force attacks miss (it actually says miss as opposed to resist like with shadows) recently. No idea how its done but WTB this info

 

Resist only happens when they use Resilience/Force Shroud, which only lasts 3 seconds or 5/6 if specced into.

 

OT: Some of the Gaurdian tanks you are talking about are probably focus gaurdians using tank stance for damage reduction + shielding, it's what I use on my juggy

Edited August 24, 2012 by Jayshames

[FalcoLombardi]

Make armor effect all damage types, and make defensive stats effect all damage types so tanks can tank

[Altheran]

Make armor effect all damage types, and make defensive stats effect all damage types so tanks can tank

 

Even if I want rates to effective regardless of attack types, I can't agree with armor being efficient against all damage type.

[Woimy]

I actually believe the design team got the effectiveness of shield/absorb correct in pvp. If force/tech attacks were defensible/shieldable you would have unkillable players.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

Team A and Team B are playing a huttball match. A tank from Team A grabs the huttball. Another player from Team A applies guard to this tank. Team A has a healer nearby.

 

The dps from Team B would not be able kill the player with the ball through his high avoidance, a guard, personal cooldowns, and outside heals. Assuming the player with the ball doesn't make a mistake, Team B's only option is to kill his support before our new super beefy player makes it across the goal line.

 

While I don't think tanks should be unkillable in general, using Huttball as the sole reason for an entire class balance decision is not good design. If it wasn't for HB, no one would really have an issue with a tank that is guarded and healed being virtually impossible to kill, while putting out little damage. I mean, when I play a tank, that's kind of what I want to do, and what I do do in PvE. But all because of Huttball, tanks have to be gimped in the other 75% of WZs and (hahaha) theoretical world PvP. Also, tanks seem to be balanced in PvE (or at least, I haven't heard many complaints) so any significant change would require a huge re-balancing all over.

[Jerro]

You maybe should reconsider your playstyle? Tanks are very good for i.e. interupt cappings, and stay alive until you get reinforcements. Dont bother so much with your damage, protection just focus on stay aive and annoy people that is what tanks do best

[L-RANDLE]

So what the hell good is it to have Tank equipment against an Inquisitor, BH, or Operative?

 

Those classes are littered with kinetic energy attacks which are affected by Armor Rating. That is why it is a waste for a tankasin to wear tank gear in a WZ.

1. Their armor rating is about half of a heavy armor tank rating.

2. Overall this game is more kinetic and energy based damage.

3. Crit hits cannot be Shielded/Absorbed.

 

(Speaking for a Sage point of view) In the case of the heavy armor folks, most of my attacks are cut in half (except for 1EA actually powerful one My Sages' internal force attack, FiB which bypass armor rating and defense chance). The funny thing is Tankasins can resist it.

Rock v. Paper.

Technically, you are sissors to my paper. Get some DPS gear, or stack Defense on your secondary (if you want to be tankier). You will see a big difference.

Edited August 24, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Altheran]

You maybe should reconsider your playstyle? Tanks are very good for i.e. interupt cappings, and stay alive until you get reinforcements. Dont bother so much with your damage, protection just focus on stay aive and annoy people that is what tanks do best

 

Staying alive depends on the class you have. A class which is not good with hard mitigation (Shadow/Assassin compared to Vanguard/PT) can be taken down really fast if the guys attacking the node you defend have a frontload damaging style and use CC in order to not let use any of your CD.

 

Let a Shadow defend a node against an Operative and a PT and you can be sure he will be dead before he can fight back, so staying alive until reinforcement arrives... I guess reinforcement are Flash, Superman and Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

(Speaking for a Sage point of view) In the case of the heavy armor folks, most of my attacks are cut in half (except for 1EA actually powerful one My Sages' internal force attack, FiB which bypass armor rating and defense chance). The funny thing is Tankasins can resist it.

Rock v. Paper.

Technically, you are sissors to my paper.

They're not Sissors. They're rock who can change for sissors for 5 seconds. There is a big difference.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Altheran

[L-RANDLE]

They're not Sissors. They're rock who can change for sissors for 5 seconds. There is a big difference.

 

Sort of, but when they are DPS gear, they are sissors 100% of the time because they have counters our attacks, and deal out just as much, if not more damage. So in affect if Sages are paper, they are sissors because they have skill tree/talents to mitigate ALL attacks from us. I have had some force potency/FiB(internal force attack) crits(90%crit chance) resisted. That's a hard counter in my book.

 

Their mitigation makes them larger sissors. Seimantics.. I know....

Edited August 24, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Sippix]

Yeah, kitting melee class who can jump at you, fast run at you and instantly put on you the same kind of snare... yeah very effective and interesting technique. Only works on guy who only use "move forward" to catch you. Not sure to be the only one who know only about fundamentals.

 

Carbonize and Electro Dart.

 

/yawn

 

Next.

[falcon_Xtreme]

You maybe should reconsider your playstyle? Tanks are very good for i.e. interupt cappings, and stay alive until you get reinforcements. Dont bother so much with your damage, protection just focus on stay aive and annoy people that is what tanks do best

 

Im in the same boat as the op, and its my own fault. however like you pointed out annoying people is stll a viable option for us lame tanks. whilst we may not get the cool kids dps numbers or protection. harassing a healer for a whole wz can still be handy.

[alexzk]

Absorbtion is not a waste, it is a resist to weapon type attacks. Having it near 40% + amplification cube is just great. Why did u stuck into DMG numbers ? Just check how much times you died.

 

I have 2 shadows after transfer so 1 I changed to be DPSer with DPS gear. Well, it rocks - hits like a track. But, it dies much faster. Can't guard node alone, can't fight alone etc. Everything this I can do by tank with shield.

 

Also I love tankasins without shield at all I can just smash them by double strike without worries.

Edited August 24, 2012 by alexzk

[Altheran]

Carbonize and Electro Dart.

 

/yawn

 

Next.

 

And then Force Stun

 

/yawn twice

 

Each time you'll get some distance from a melee with a CC with a PT/Vang, melee will negate it with this own. Kitting at 10+ meters for them is lost cause. Next.

 

PS : the time you do all this kitting thing you have the time to kill the guy with regular melee moves instead of dumbly spamming rapid shots just in order to show me you can use your gun. Plus it does incredibely low damage, tanks (who are the point of this thread in the first place) don't care if they can avoid/shield only a little percent of your damage (rapid shot is what ? something like 5% of your damage ?). Plus if you prefer to take the longer route in order to kill a tank, this is wrong because the tank strength is that he has more time for being healed before dying, so you should always choose the faster way of killing them (true for all roles in PvP). And it means not using rapid shot unless it is for heat management.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Altheran

[Sippix]

And then Force Stun

 

/yawn twice

 

Each time you'll get some distance from a melee with a CC with a PT/Vang, melee will negate it with this own. Next.

 

Not true. You only need to get distance on them once and let them burn their leap. After they burn their leap, it's GG.

[Altheran]

Not true. You only need to get distance on them once and let them burn their leap. After they burn their leap, it's GG.

 

Only for Guardians then (Sent's stealth - Shadow's 30m-range CCs)... and you mustn't waste your CC on these Shien guys, and absolutely not remain in the 10m range in order to not let Focus guys using Zealous Leap or use the Force Push + Leap combo.

 

But admitting it works, the time you do all this kitting thing you have the time to kill the guy with regular melee moves instead of spamming rapid shots just in order to show me you can use your gun.

Plus it does incredibely low damage... tanks - who are the point of this thread in the first place - don't care if they can avoid/shield only a little percent of your damage... rapid shot when you do the whole kitting is what ? something like 5-10% of your total damage ?

Plus if you prefer to take the longer (and less sure) route in order to kill a tank, this is wrong because the tank strength is that he has more time for being healed before dying, so you should always choose the faster way of killing them (true for all roles in PvP but especially true for tanks). And it means not using rapid shot unless it is for heat management.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Altheran

[NoaFlux]

welcome in my hell.

 

Join the movement of tanks who want fully effective rates.

 

yes im in!!!

[NoaFlux]

If you're playing with other guardians their taunts maybe overiding yours

As for dps get the bm vindicator set roll focus or vigilance spec

And keep your defense gear until you can build a better set

 

YEAH I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS TODAY! UNLIKE HEALERS.....A GUARDIAN CANNOT GUARD THE SAME PERSON...AND OUR BUFFS WOULD NOT WORK etc. if others buffed.

 

either way...what is it worth?

[NoaFlux]

If you're playing with other guardians their taunts maybe overiding yours

As for dps get the bm vindicator set roll focus or vigilance spec

And keep your defense gear until you can build a better set

 

im not for focus, i might still shield. i just want power.

 

i have been checking out a lot of other guardians.

 

and the ones who have gear without absorption, but have power are ten times better.

 

i don't mean dps...as far as not shielding. i just mean equipping non absorption gear.

[NoaFlux]

BTW. Can someone explain why my Telekenetic Throw with 3 Stacks of Harnessed Shadows does very little to 90% of the people I use it on? Yet I see Force Lightening destroy everyone it touches.

 

Sometimes...its great but most of the time it's not. Is it because I'm a full tank and have no power etc?

 

My other abilities do way more damage, and I even checked in the Combat Logs!!!

Edited August 24, 2012 by NoaFlux

[NoaFlux]

Yeah I feel Juggs/guardians are the best tank in PvP as of now with assassins coming in a close second and PT's are eating glue in the corner.

 

I will assume you are an assassin and the only way that class performs well in warzones is with DPS gear. Our high damage we can put it with top gear makes up for lower defenses and cooldowns.

 

Exactly. Like I heard so many times and should have listened, but didn't...the amount of damage you do not only is worth much more than the absorb/shield etc. but it makes up for it by keeping you alive and helping you be more aggressive, in turn giving you more chances to shield..and increasing you protection because you are alive.

 

All I know is that I have seen lots of tanks with power (Force Mystics gear) which has no absorb get way more Protection and Damage at the end of war zones. I'm almost full war hero, and I believe I am skilled. I use combat logs etc. to make sure i'm doing what I'm supposed to, and I get #1 overall very often....but when someone in the same class as me comes in...and does double what I'm doing...

 

i feel i've been cheated...i should at least beat them in absorption (protection)!!! But I've never got anywhere near 200,000 the most I've ever received is 175,000. I have all absorb, almost all WH.

Edited August 24, 2012 by NoaFlux

[NoaFlux]

The point of being a tank is being able to mitigate damage. ALL types of damage. If Defense/Shield/Absorb serves zero purpose against Tech or Force, what good is wearing Tank-specific equipment against a BH or Inquisitor in a Warzone? What benefit is it to you then?

 

The thing is...you are also a shadow...so you can dissapear, heal...rinse and repeat

 

the only thing is I get #1 almost twice a night and I do the dailies every night, and I even have Absorb gear on...the reason I created this post. so...what I'm trying to say is the tanks are very strong....lasting forever isn't the problem..

 

problems are

 

1) its extremely hard to tank using guard...because people die all the time...or get debuffed...and i have to stare at the buff square non stop...while im playing to make sure its on

 

2.) we do very little damage. if you are a REAL tank with absorb, you will never be asked to play PvP with a guild 90% of the time

[NoaFlux]

Wrong. Tanks in WoW got resistance against different damage types, from both melee and ranged, physical and magical. They did little in the way of damage, but they still were able to shrug off any kind of attack thrown at them. ToR should be no different. If tanks can't shrug off damage from Force/Tech but Sorc's and Powertechs can inflict full range of damage on them with no consequence, how is that, in any way shape or form, balanced or fair?

 

Classes are supposed to be balanced against each other. Sorc's are not supposed to be able to destroy tanks with no way for them to retaliate.

 

Yeah I AGREE! See it's all about the numbers!! I didn't make it that way, that's how it is.

 

When I get 100,000 damage,a and 100,000 protection...that doesn't look good to guilds or other players who are seeing...300,000 damage or 500,000 damage on the screen.

 

Therefore these people think we REAL TANKS are weak! And don't want to play with us (despite tactical advantages etc). Even if we get number one (which we can even with low damage) it still looks bad.

 

Point is if we see 25,000 damage but 300,000 absorb that looks good. Take a healer for example, at least they can say...oh i healed 300,000. But BW does need to make us do less damage with ABSORB gear on we already do...just give ONLY REAL tanks more absorb and shield!

 

a tank....uh "hey guys" i finally got 100,000 protection for once!!

 

So the way WoW does it makes sense.

 

THE PROBLEM IN SWTOR THOUGH IS THAT OF "DOUBLE MINDEDNESS". TRYING TO DO TWO THINGS AT ONCE THAT COUNTERACT EACH OTHER. THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF TANKS. THATS THE PROBLEM. TANLS WHO DO TONS OF DAMAGE AND ONES WHO ACCUALLY TRY TO PROTECT. BIO WARE NEEDS TO HELP THOSE REAL TANKS, WHO PROTECT, BUT LEAVE THE OTHER TANKS ALONE.

 

THEY need to only help one part of our class...not all of us!

Edited August 25, 2012 by NoaFlux