A full absorb tank. I need help. I wasted my last 6 months :(

[cycao]

Yeah I feel Juggs/guardians are the best tank in PvP as of now with assassins coming in a close second and PT's are eating glue in the corner.

 

I will assume you are an assassin and the only way that class performs well in warzones is with DPS gear. Our high damage we can put it with top gear makes up for lower defenses and cooldowns.

[Darth_Philar]

The point of being a tank is being able to mitigate damage. ALL types of damage. If Defense/Shield/Absorb serves zero purpose against Tech or Force, what good is wearing Tank-specific equipment against a BH or Inquisitor in a Warzone? What benefit is it to you then?

 

You are not meant to negate some damage types because those damage types are meant to be tank killers.

[PainisCupcakeEY]

You are not meant to negate some damage types because those damage types are meant to be tank killers.

 

A tank that cannot mitigate certain types of damage is no tank at all. You either mitigate across the board or you mitigate nothing.

 

Even WoW knew better and offered spell resistance to Fire/Frost/Arcane/Nature/Elemental. That's how tanks stayed viable against casters, the supposed "tank killers" you speak of. Tanks in this game should be no different. WoW got Spell resistance, ToR should get Force/Tech resistance.

Edited August 24, 2012 by PainisCupcakeEY

[Darth_Philar]

A tank that cannot mitigate certain types of damage is no tank at all. You either mitigate across the board or you mitigate nothing.

 

Even WoW knew better and offered spell resistance to Fire/Frost/Arcane/Nature/Elemental. That's how tanks stayed viable against casters, the supposed "tank killers" you speak of. Tanks in this game should be no different. WoW got Spell resistance, ToR should get Force/Tech resistance.

 

Tanks were not viable in PvP in WoW, so your example fails to support your argument.

[Sippix]

Sorc/Sage = 100% Force

Shadow/Assassin = You can do a full Force rotation if you want. Melee move tend to be Double strike only (with few basic strike when out of Force)

PT/Vang = Only rail/High impact Bolt shot is not Tech. They can also use unload/Full auto and basic shots but is it worth to do it ?

Commando/Merc = quite Full Tech if Arsenal/Gunnery. Only their Assault spec have a good reliance on ranged.

 

Man, I have to really question where you get your info from.

 

Sage/Sorc = WEAK in PvP. It's not even fair how weak they are. Most of their key abilities are Force, but it's so weak.

 

Shad/Sin = Force/Melee mix. Those Madness Sins are pretty crappy.

 

PT/Vans = Range/Tech mix. And yes, Rapid Shots (basic no-cost Ranged attack) gives you 4 chances in ONE gcd to apply the CGC dot, which accounts for about 40% of the Pyro/Assault damage, plus if they all crit, it's ~2K damage. So, it's worth it.

 

Comm/Merc = Ranged/Tech mix. If you're spec'ing Gun/Ars as a pvp Comm/Merc, then I just have to lol. You must only be running regular WZ's, and probably only do good against crap pug teams. Pyro/assault is still the choice for pvp here.

[PainisCupcakeEY]

Tanks were not viable in PvP in WoW, so your example fails to support your argument.

 

Wrong. Tanks in WoW got resistance against different damage types, from both melee and ranged, physical and magical. They did little in the way of damage, but they still were able to shrug off any kind of attack thrown at them. ToR should be no different. If tanks can't shrug off damage from Force/Tech but Sorc's and Powertechs can inflict full range of damage on them with no consequence, how is that, in any way shape or form, balanced or fair?

 

Classes are supposed to be balanced against each other. Sorc's are not supposed to be able to destroy tanks with no way for them to retaliate.

[Sippix]

Wrong. Tanks in WoW got resistance against different damage types, from both melee and ranged, physical and magical. They did little in the way of damage, but they still were able to shrug off any kind of attack thrown at them. ToR should be no different. If tanks can't shrug off damage from Force/Tech but Sorc's and Powertechs can inflict full range of damage on them with no consequence, how is that, in any way shape or form, balanced or fair?

 

Classes are supposed to be balanced against each other. Sorc's are not supposed to be able to destroy tanks with no way for them to retaliate.

 

Did you play after patch 3.2? Because after 3.2 (Lich King), Prot Warriors were no longer viable in PVP.

[PainisCupcakeEY]

Did you play after patch 3.2? Because after 3.2 (Lich King), Prot Warriors were no longer viable in PVP.

 

My Prot Pally always gave people a run for their money in Arenas. I was able to resist all types of damage, even from Mages and Warlocks. Granted they were still annoying because of Frost roots and Fearbombs, but they didn't absolutely destroy me in 3 spells like they did against DPS/healers.

[Darth_Philar]

Wrong. Tanks in WoW got resistance against different damage types, from both melee and ranged, physical and magical. They did little in the way of damage, but they still were able to shrug off any kind of attack thrown at them. ToR should be no different. If tanks can't shrug off damage from Force/Tech but Sorc's and Powertechs can inflict full range of damage on them with no consequence, how is that, in any way shape or form, balanced or fair?

 

Classes are supposed to be balanced against each other. Sorc's are not supposed to be able to destroy tanks with no way for them to retaliate.

 

You clearly are new here (and to WoW, probably MMOs in general) so I'm going to be nice and explain this as simply as possible:

 

Tanks were not used in PvP in WoW because they could do no damage, nor could they contribute in any meaningful way towards completing objectives, the only thing they did was die last. The amounts of resistance they could stack were 100% mitigated by all DPS who stacked Hit Rating to the requisite level (which was all decent players). Tanks had no value in PvP in WoW, which is why all tanking players used their secondary spec for PvP.

 

Secondly, in SWTOR the game is not balanced around 1v1. The only class in this game that a Sorc can easily duel is a tank since the tank can't out DPS the Sorc. This game uses a Rock<Paper<Scissors balance model. You are a Rock, and you are complaining about Paper.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Sippix]

My Prot Pally always gave people a run for their money in Arenas. I was able to resist all types of damage, even from Mages and Warlocks. Granted they were still annoying because of Frost roots and Fearbombs, but they didn't absolutely destroy me in 3 spells like they did against DPS/healers.

 

Prot Warriors and Prot Pallies didn't even play the same - not even remotely close. So why do you think that a Def Guard should play the same as a Prot Pally?

[PainisCupcakeEY]

Prot Warriors and Prot Pallies didn't even play the same - not even remotely close. So why do you think that a Def Guard should play the same as a Prot Pally?

 

That was never my argument. My argument was that Tanks in WoW got resistance to all damage types, therefore it should be the same in ToR. Tanks should not be cannon fodder for Sorcs simply because of defense mechanics.

 

Ugh, my grammar is failing me right now. That's what I get for going 36 hours without sleep.

Edited August 24, 2012 by PainisCupcakeEY

[Sippix]

That was never my argument. My argument was that Tanks in WoW got resistance to all damage types, therefore it should be the same in WoW. Tanks should not be cannon fodder for Sorcs simply because of defense mechanics.

 

No, all tanks in WoW did NOT get the same defensive mitigations to attacks. Just Prot Pallies. I know, I played a Warrior for ages in WoW and quit in November of 2011.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/maelstrom/Malkiv/advanced

Go look, I know what I'm talking about.

[PainisCupcakeEY]

No, all tanks in WoW did NOT get the same defensive mitigations to attacks. Just Prot Pallies. I know, I played a Warrior for ages in WoW and quit in November of 2011.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/maelstrom/Malkiv/advanced

Go look, I know what I'm talking about.

 

Are you trying to make the claim that Prot Pallies were overpowered compared to Prot Warriors/Druids/DK's?

[Sippix]

Are you trying to make the claim that Prot Pallies were overpowered compared to Prot Warriors/Druids/DK's?

 

Uh...No...I'm saying that not all the tanking classes got the same bonuses and abilities.

 

Look, you got shut down. If you wanted a class that played more like a Prot Pally, you should have picked a Consular Shadow. Juggs play more like a Prot Warr/Druid hybrid thing.

[PainisCupcakeEY]

Uh...No...I'm saying that not all the tanking classes got the same bonuses and abilities.

 

Look, you got shut down. If you wanted a class that played more like a Prot Pally, you should have picked a Consular Shadow. Juggs play more like a Prot Warr/Druid hybrid thing.

 

I play a Guardian, not a Jugg. And I didn't get shut down. It's a FACT that Tank specced/geared players should have a fair chance against pure Force/Tech users. Period.

[Altheran]

Man, I have to really question where you get your info from.

 

Sage/Sorc = WEAK in PvP. It's not even fair how weak they are. Most of their key abilities are Force, but it's so weak.

 

Shad/Sin = Force/Melee mix. Those Madness Sins are pretty crappy.

 

PT/Vans = Range/Tech mix. And yes, Rapid Shots (basic no-cost Ranged attack) gives you 4 chances in ONE gcd to apply the CGC dot, which accounts for about 40% of the Pyro/Assault damage, plus if they all crit, it's ~2K damage. So, it's worth it.

 

Comm/Merc = Ranged/Tech mix. If you're spec'ing Gun/Ars as a pvp Comm/Merc, then I just have to lol. You must only be running regular WZ's, and probably only do good against crap pug teams. Pyro/assault is still the choice for pvp here.

 

Is it really your only point ? They suck so it's fine ? No, because they can kill tanks wil only one hand on the mouse and the other on the beer can. In theory that make Tanks even more crappy than them.

 

I love your argument on Madness Sins. I tried Balance when I was tired of my Kinetic spec, but I only had my tanking gear, so I have no crit/power on it (and no crit = no health regen, really not optimal) and fought a "Full-Tank" Jugg. I could beat him with ease (it was long because of lack of stats from my side, but so easy...)

 

PT/Vang : why would they try rapid shot to have 4 chances to proc the Dot when they have a Tech ability which has 100% chance of making it proc ? The only purpose is "when they want to vent heat or regen ammo", nothing more.

 

You are not meant to negate some damage types because those damage types are meant to be tank killers.

 

Does they really need so much help from dev's side to be tank killers ?

 

Isn't it enough :

1. having accuracy so that Defense rate is negated (if it would work on Tech/Force)

2. doing DoTs so shield don't occur (and/or having high crit rate which override shield chance)

3. doing internal/elemental dmg which aren't mitigated by armor

in the same spec to be "tank killer" ? Does it really need that the majority of all their attacks bypass defenses ?

[BambulaGTS]

I play a Guardian, not a Jugg. And I didn't get shut down. It's a FACT that Tank specced/geared players should have a fair chance against pure Force/Tech users. Period.

 

The faster you understand that tank in tank gear does not have "chances" vs anyone cause he is not needed to kill anyone, the faster you will obtain peace.

 

Tank in tank gear sticks to team and healers and helps them to have chances vs anyone.

Edited August 24, 2012 by BambulaGTS

[netskink]

Did you play after patch 3.2? Because after 3.2 (Lich King), Prot Warriors were no longer viable in PVP.

 

I remember playing as a prot warrior and being the last man standing many a time in arena.

[Sippix]

I play a Guardian, not a Jugg. And I didn't get shut down. It's a FACT that Tank specced/geared players should have a fair chance against pure Force/Tech users. Period.

 

Jugg = Guard. Juggernaut is the Empire mirror for Guardian. I'm just used to saying 'Jugg' when talking about that particular AC. The fact that you don't know that makes me wonder about how long you've played and your actual skill level, as a result.

 

Is it really your only point ? They suck so it's fine ? No, because they can kill tanks wil only one hand on the mouse and the other on the beer can. In theory that make Tanks even more crappy than them.

If a Sorc is beatinga BH tank, then the BH needs to reroll. The only reason a Sorc/Sage can beat a non-BH tank is because the tank does so little damage in a 1v1 scenario, it simply cannot win the DPS race with even underpowered classes.

 

I love your argument on Madness Sins. I tried Balance when I was tired of my Kinetic spec, but I only had my tanking gear, so I have no crit/power on it (and no crit = no health regen, really not optimal) and fought a "Full-Tank" Jugg. I could beat him with ease (it was long because of lack of stats from my side, but so easy...)

Again, same thing I said for the above.

 

PT/Vang : why would they try rapid shot to have 4 chances to proc the Dot when they have a Tech ability which has 100% chance of making it proc ? The only purpose is "when they want to vent heat or regen ammo", nothing more.

It's called kiting melee between RS/HIB procs and opening at range, and that's what good PT/Vans do that spec Pyro/Assault. Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot almost always procs your stance dot because of the 4 chances. When your stance dot is applied, you slow your target by 50%. Then when your RS/HIB is ready to be proc'd again you use your two Tech attacks that proc it for free.

 

You talk a big game, but I don't think you have a working knowledge of your classes. Maybe you've played a couple, but everything you say seems to be fundamental only, not working.

[Evuo]

I play a Guardian, not a Jugg. And I didn't get shut down. It's a FACT that Tank specced/geared players should have a fair chance against pure Force/Tech users. Period.

 

I actually believe the design team got the effectiveness of shield/absorb correct in pvp. If force/tech attacks were defensible/shieldable you would have unkillable players.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

Team A and Team B are playing a huttball match. A tank from Team A grabs the huttball. Another player from Team A applies guard to this tank. Team A has a healer nearby.

 

The dps from Team B would not be able kill the player with the ball through his high avoidance, a guard, personal cooldowns, and outside heals. Assuming the player with the ball doesn't make a mistake, Team B's only option is to kill his support before our new super beefy player makes it across the goal line.

[Altheran]

It's called kiting melee between RS/HIB procs and opening at range, and that's what good PT/Vans do that spec Pyro/Assault. Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot almost always procs your stance dot because of the 4 chances. When your stance dot is applied, you slow your target by 50%. Then when your RS/HIB is ready to be proc'd again you use your two Tech attacks that proc it for free.

 

You talk a big game, but I don't think you have a working knowledge of your classes. Maybe you've played a couple, but everything you say seems to be fundamental only, not working.

 

Yeah, kitting melee class who can jump at you, fast run at you and instantly put on you the same kind of snare... yeah very effective and interesting technique. Only works on guy who only use "move forward" to catch you. Not sure to be the only one who know only about fundamentals.

[Awthtem]

I hear the frustration man... and i know the feeling. My main is a JC and we are definitely under-appreciated IMHO, especially when it comes to Protection numbers. Good prot #s are hard to come by (in pugs especially). Granted, i did not go full tank like u - my skills are more balance than anything, something like 17 0 24 (dont recall exactly). And i am in mostly augmented WH gear, have the survivor gear set for the dmg increase, and every other piece is stalker. My stats in pugs (which is all i play) hover between 150k - 350k dmg and 45k to 100k prot on a normal basis. There have been higher stat matches but they are very few and far between. I am not a biochem so i dont have stims and i dont use wz exp buffs simply b/c i use my wz comms to get the last few pieces of wh gear i play i need. Here's my points: are you having fun? Do you feel like you are on equal to other jc's? Do you feel you contribute to team wins? If the answer is Yes then dude, dont worry about it too much. The game is in an everchanging state. What fotm is great atm will be gone soon... should u voice your concerns? Absolutely, but dont quit b/c of stats. Hell, the default listed stats at the end of a match don't show the full picture at all. They need a better way to track certain things like dmg mitigation, taken, etc...

[AKfourtyseven]

If you are pulling less than 200k protection in longer matches, its not the gear thats the problem.

[Maraxuss]

a tank in tank gear does FAR FAR FAR worse in damage than a tank in dps gear but have the same survivability...which is utter bull, no one can effectively argue that fact. The game is broken in that area. The problem is tank in tank gear gives up almost all his damage to receive a negligible amount of tanking ability. A noob with a can of beer in one hand can effectively kill a tank with just spamming buttons, because a normal rotation will yield a great nember of attacks that the tank can't even defend against, making the purpose of tank stats on his armor utterly retarded

They should either.

 

1. Get rid of all PvP tank stated gear altogether

2. Boost all damage abilities coming off of that gear so a tank be on par with others that are not so gimped.

 

They should really just get rid of all the pvp tank armor all together, and not let people gimp themselves.

 

Yes, i chose tank armor route long ago too hoping and having faith that the devs would change this and make tanks in tank gear effective in thier role in pvp....but as time goes on i think they either don't care or have adopted a "working as intended" design descision about it.

 

In the end Tanks are the only role that when choosing battlemaster or war tanking gear for thier role/character, totally bork themselves...and thats not right by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Maraxuss

[leegrisham]

I have to admit. Ever since the 1.2 PVP revamp playing a tank completely sucks. They have boosted damage and reduced longevity because somehow the design team came to the conclusion that people lived too long. Pre 1.2 I could guard a healer and we could both live the whole game. But since 1.2 I die just as quickly as anyone else and do significantly less damage.

 

It makes playing a tank in PVP much less enjoyable because you are basically worthless. My preference would be a buff to tanks survivability in PVP because when I chose tanking I reserved myself to never topping the damage charts but being a punching bag keeping the rest of the team alive (healers and DPS), but now I barely take any extra punches than they can. The other option would be a buff to tank damage to allow use to kill people a bit faster and increase survivability through killing foes, however I dislike that option as tanks are not supposed to be heavy hitters and a change like that could hurt the PVE side.

 

Oh and add to all that I am a powertech shield tech and it's basically like a worthless player on the team.