Aehgo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Got my gunnery commando to 50 2 days ago,full recruit gear and thought I was gonna be roflstomped the next few days...untill I noticed after the first game I topped damage with 350k and had a biggest hit of 4.1k.Almost everygame I am topping damage or being a close second/third..I hit hard and sure 1v1'ing is out of the question,so I never put myself in those situations,I kite,los and offheal.. Now 2 days later I have almost full BM and I'm tearing warzones apart.. Sure playing recruit isn't easy,but its not as bad as people say.. Bad players will always make excuses 'its gear' 'its lag' 'my cds where down' 'body type 1 is faster then body type 4'etcetc.. People need to accept that some players are just better then you,you can accept this and try improve or cry saying your opponent had some sort of advantage.. Edited August 25, 2012 by Aehgo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 People need to accept that some players are just better then you,you can accept this and try improve or cry saying your opponent had some sort of advantage.. it's a lot less work and easier on the ego to simply consider: everyone I can beat, i outskilled everyone that beat me, outgeared me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aehgo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 it's a lot less work and easier on the ego to simply consider: everyone I can beat, i outskilled everyone that beat me, outgeared me problem with that is when you get full war hero and a recruit beats you,what then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 problem with that is when you get full war hero and a recruit beats you,what then? That won't ever happen if the player is halfway competent, or he's just a below average mara vs a decent sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 problem with that is when you get full war hero and a recruit beats you,what then? obviously haxxoring! that, or they had too many friends! omgznoes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebado Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 problem with that is when you get full war hero and a recruit beats you,what then? Hax, premade, OP class, lag - pick whatever you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aehgo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 That won't ever happen if the player is halfway competent, or he's just a below average mara vs a decent sniper. It will and probably has happened to alot of the mediocre war hero players. Lets take class balance out of the equation and say its a skilled mara recruit vs a keyboard turning war hero sentinal(I've seen quite a few..),who wins? A skilled recruit shadow vs a war hero assassin clicker A skilled recruit sniper vs a war hero gunslinger that doesn't even know what his dps rotation(Again there are quite a few at 50..) A skilled recruit sage vs a war hero geared sorc that doesn't use an interupt or cleanse The list could go on but I wouldn't want to think about the other incredibly awfull pvpers oin my server.. Gear+skill>skilll Gear<skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Got my gunnery commando to 50 2 days ago,full recruit gear and thought I was gonna be roflstomped the next few days...untill I noticed after the first game I topped damage with 350k and had a biggest hit of 4.1k Pics or it didn't happen. Sorry but in my experience those kinds of numbers just aren't gonna be possible with Recruit gear from anything in Gunnery Commando's aresenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) It will and probably has happened to alot of the mediocre war hero players. Lets take class balance out of the equation and say its a skilled mara recruit vs a keyboard turning war hero sentinal(I've seen quite a few..),who wins? A skilled recruit shadow vs a war hero assassin clicker A skilled recruit sniper vs a war hero gunslinger that doesn't even know what his dps rotation(Again there are quite a few at 50..) A skilled recruit sage vs a war hero geared sorc that doesn't use an interupt or cleanse The list could go on but I wouldn't want to think about the other incredibly awfull pvpers oin my server.. Gear+skill>skilll Gear<skill wow.... There really are a lot of terribads on your server... what.. I don't even... There was this one time I rofltrolled an assault VG w/ my concealment op 1v1 (I had lolpvecolumi gear). The gear _ skill equation isn't as static. There is a point where the gear gap will overcome the difference in skill. That difference in skill is about the difference between a player who knows their class inside and out and someone who knows it moderately well, I would say.. Sure, terribads will die, they should, all the time, until they get better. People say recruit to BM helps people learn their class.... I haven't learned anything but I still tear up now that I'm full Bm, 1/3 aug'd WH... I'm lead to think I was at a statistical disadvantage and now I'm at an advantage/par... Probably advantage... Meaning: People in recruit that I play are badly skilled. OR People in WH I play are above average/average OR I'm a terribad/slightly below average player. Maybe my spec is just super gear based (AKA underpowered). I melt face extra well as assault, I normally play AP. I'm not sure, since I'll get flamed for insinuation any of the three. Edited August 25, 2012 by Zunayson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrias Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I'm not sure, since I'll get flamed for insinuation any of the three. Lol, this is the SWTOR forums. There's going to be someone that feels the need to flame you whatever you say. I think my issue with this experiment, is that I still don't think it's proving what you're hoping to. If you win or lose a match, how do you know why you got that outcome? There is no measurable metric for whether it is down to your personal skill, or whether it was a gear issue, or whether it was a team co-ordination factor, or maybe a class balance issue between the teams. And yes, I definitely think Individual skill and Teamwork are separate issues. There have been lots of occasions where I know, even if I were to have played like the best Sages/Sorcs I've ever seen, I wouldn't have made a big impact on the WZ. Either because my team is so bad and I have no support at all, or because I'm on my ~16.5k BM Sorc up against 19.5k augmented WH any class (except commando DPS who let me LoS them). Also, I've been in games where I could barely put in any effort or skill and still do remarkably well, because my when my team does well, Personally, I feel the order of value is Teamwork > Spec/Class > Gear > Personal skill. Finally, I'm sure that on very, very rare occasions, an exceptionally talented recruit geared person of one class can potentially kill and exceptionally poor WM geared person of the same class. But realistically, how often is that going to happen? Certainly not often enough to prove that Skill > Gear. All it proves is that extreme examples and scenarios sometime go against the general rule of thumb. One time I topped both the Healing and DPS charts on my Sage. Does it mean I'm great? No, not at all. Does it mean that Sage/Sorc is overpowered? Just "Lol" at that idea. It means that I was in a terrible team, against a terrible team who let me free cast, while being in better gear than most of the other players in the warzone. I didn't play in a different way to what I normally do, yet I don't normally see those results. It's just a freak result, and it doesn't reflect the bigger picture at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roast-Beast Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 So no one has anything to say about the actual streams now? Nothing about our rated team putting on recruit (one going just naked) into a novar coast before the game starts and just terrorizing? nothing about how I kited 4 players for 5 mins on west in full recruit? The people were right, once the evidence was up people would just ignore it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizen Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 So no one has anything to say about the actual streams now? Nothing about our rated team putting on recruit (one going just naked) into a novar coast before the game starts and just terrorizing? nothing about how I kited 4 players for 5 mins on west in full recruit? The people were right, once the evidence was up people would just ignore it This response made me laugh a lot. After what I saw. I can only shake my head. You've only further proven that pvp in this game can be made into / is a serious joke, and could be, should be much better as most folks have been saying. Gear is clearly an issue no matter how you try to downplay that lol. And the other factors / issues feed into this one. Yes you will quote me. Have fun with that. I supported you silently with high hopes, but after those videos I just lost complete faith in your stance on the matter. Given everything this mmo should have the best PvP, Sadly, it clearly lacks the better understanding / skill to make it so. That is no customers fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roast-Beast Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 One of those videos is of an entire premade focusing me ask them. atm #1 imp rated team on server. secondly, did you not watch us trash a rated team while we were in full recruit... and our op healer was fully naked....... what am i missing here, putting up top healing taking 200+k damage with roughly 4 deaths a game in recruit.... was i suppose to be unkillable? no. was i effective yes i was/am. do i smash face harder in wh.. obviously. but with 49's hitting 50 with 2k/3.5k comms you gear out fast. recruit gear is free, stop ************ is what im kinda getting at here. oh and of course skill>gear. /end thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 One of those videos is of an entire premade focusing me ask them. atm #1 imp rated team on server. secondly, did you not watch us trash a rated team while we were in full recruit... and our op healer was fully naked....... what am i missing here, putting up top healing taking 200+k damage with roughly 4 deaths a game in recruit.... was i suppose to be unkillable? no. was i effective yes i was/am. do i smash face harder in wh.. obviously. but with 49's hitting 50 with 2k/3.5k comms you gear out fast. recruit gear is free, stop ************ is what im kinda getting at here. oh and of course skill>gear. /end thanks. The only video I saw was about 18 minutes of a black screen followed by a Novare Coast match where a commando healer was standing dead center at south with his buddies, surrounded by enemies, with a green beam pointing at his allies, not being attacked by anyone (let alone stunned into focus) the vast majority of the time. I see you ranging marauders easily (meaning they don't have the right things talented). I don't see you getting harpooned into a circle of death once. If you're telling me that was a ranked match against the #1 imp premade, the competition on your server is terrible. I'm not saying you're bad. I don't think you are. What I do think is that you decided to brazenly prove something nobody ever asked anyone to prove--that healers can be effective in recruit--then posted a video showing yourself doing a pretty good job under pretty optimal conditions. But I don't understand the point. Everybody already knows healers can contribute in crap gear, especially under optimal conditions. Try this out: borrow an op or sorc healer from a friend who doesn't pvp with it and is, thus, not known in warzones. Put out a message in fleet "fresh 50 op/sorc healer in recruit LF unranked warzone premade." You'll get multiple people to take you up on that offer, and not undergeared, crap people either. The reason you'll get takers is that everybody knows, while you're not ideal, you'll still contribute quite a bit. But if the idea was to impress people you haven't done it. This is something that would impress me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morde_ Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 One of those videos is of an entire premade focusing me ask them. atm #1 imp rated team on server. secondly, did you not watch us trash a rated team while we were in full recruit... and our op healer was fully naked....... what am i missing here, putting up top healing taking 200+k damage with roughly 4 deaths a game in recruit.... was i suppose to be unkillable? no. was i effective yes i was/am. do i smash face harder in wh.. obviously. but with 49's hitting 50 with 2k/3.5k comms you gear out fast. recruit gear is free, stop ************ is what im kinda getting at here. oh and of course skill>gear. /end thanks. What team was the supposed #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 How did my post get deleted from this garbage thread? What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The only video I saw was about 18 minutes of a black screen followed by a Novare Coast match where a commando healer was standing dead center at south with his buddies, surrounded by enemies, with a green beam pointing at his allies, not being attacked by anyone (let alone stunned into focus) the vast majority of the time. I see you ranging marauders easily (meaning they don't have the right things talented). I don't see you getting harpooned into a circle of death once. If you're telling me that was a ranked match against the #1 imp premade, the competition on your server is terrible. Thankyou I was looking around for someone that saw the video since I did not wanted to spend time doing it myself. Seems like zero proof to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morde_ Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I'm from that server and I've seen Theboss play. His team definitely has some skill I'll give them that, but it's certain he wasn't playing nearly the #1 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roast-Beast Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Well scold the #1 team im talking about wasnt in a rated match, if you watch the video its of snooka laramie 2 others and demonsmoke, in a hutball. in a solo queu* You were the number one team, but like I said ATM yall dont queue. they do. Edited August 25, 2012 by Roast-Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Unless you're going to post a video of a full team of recruits playing against a full team of war heros in rateds, then this is irrelevant. If you play hundreds of games in recruit gear, sooner or later you're going to face a team that is geared but has no idea what they are doing. They will not recognize the fact that you are squishy as hell, and they'll just let you sit there healing, therefore giving the impression that there is no gear gap, when in reality, if those horrible WH players decided to focus fire you, you'd be dead before you can even blink an eye. ^^What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I'm from that server and I've seen Theboss play. His team definitely has some skill I'll give them that, but it's certain he wasn't playing nearly the #1 team. There is no #1 imp team any more scold. There is just Don't Panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Acherus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Boss is definitely an excellent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) First, I am not a "pro player". I'm not even a fan of PvP anymore but I play while waiting for something better to show up. Played two games today in 189 expertise. Forgot to print screen inventory in the first game. Played two games yesterday too with similar results. Game 1 -Character Game 1- Full Scoreboard Game 2 - Character Game 2 - Full Scoreboard I'm obviously not playing a pro premade but this strikes me as normal pug games. I did not edit anything and I don't play madness so I wasnt just hiding in the back while throwing dots on everyone. Also, some guy in the first game had TK ticks for around 1400 on me. Output'wise I'd say that a good PvE set makes up for the lack of expertise though. Edited August 25, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Who are these pro players? I've yet to meet anyone with a contract and salary for playing MMOs. Oh wait, "pro" must mean lives in mom's basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 First, I am not a "pro player". I'm not even a fan of PvP anymore but I play while waiting for something better to show up. Played two games today in 189 expertise. Forgot to print screen inventory in the first game. Played two games yesterday too with similar results. Game 1 -Character Game 1- Full Scoreboard Game 2 - Character Game 2 - Full Scoreboard I'm obviously not playing a pro premade but this strikes me as normal pug games. I did not edit anything and I don't play madness so I wasnt just hiding in the back while throwing dots on everyone. Also, some guy in the first game had TK ticks for around 1400 on me. Output'wise I'd say that a good PvE set makes up for the lack of expertise though. Very good round in civil war. But like the OP's post, I'm not sure what this proves, either, other than that the base stats in high-end gear make up for loss of expertise you'd get in, say, recruit. There are threads around here with the math in them--they absolutely do. The earpieces and implants don't look to be black hole, but the rest of your stats look like that's the level of gear you're wearing--augged. Possibly optimized (though I can't say without seeing your force power. Augged black hole is about in line with normal, unoptimized battlemaster in a warzone. Probably better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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