It's the "Sandbox" Stupid!

[Fisheyswan]

Since following this game before release, and the days of early access. I would have liked the devs to actually adhere more to the vast IP that is star wars, for example the size and scale of the swtor universe is tiny, flying around in my spaceship at the start was pretty cool until you realise that it's just a port to loading screens and a way of receiving class and space missions. The universe feels like a bubble, the whole point of sandbox is an ability to just get in your ship and go wherever you want and make your own rules, whilst i appreciate this is a theme park MMO it has several flaws.

 

At certain points in the game i feel like i am left wanting it to be a single player game with more advanced story, the community feels disconnected and the game makes you interact with people only when you need them to progress for your benefit, then you most likely never hear from them again. I know a lot will say that i should have researched pre-release, i did, i was hyped for this game. The devs could have done so much more with SWTOR and still label it as a themepark game, for me the mentioning by devs that SWTOR would be KOTOR 3, 4, and all the rest into one was a sheer lie, and the base that this game was marketed on wasn't strictly true, story changing decisions are nowhere to be found.

[anstalt]

Um, a themepark MMO can have sandbox elements, just like a sandbox mmo can have themepark elements.

 

Themepark: you get to choose what content you do, but once you've made that choice, you have to do it exactly as the developers tell you to do it.

 

Sandbox: you are given some tools that allow you to do stuff, then are left to your own devices.

 

 

The ultimate MMO, should it ever be made, will include both themepark and sandbox elements. For example, it is my belief that having classes and levels is the "best" thing for an mmo. Not because it is interesting, but because it is the only way to even begin to have balanced classes. Likewise, I also think story telling should be linear because it is the easiest and most compelling way to write it that can be understood by the masses.

 

On the other hand, I think leveling and gear should be sandbox, i.e. all gear should be crafted, need regular replacement etc and I think leveling should simply be done through acquiring XP. XP should come from any source: crafting, farming kills, pvp, questing etc. Quests should be dynamic, not static. That way, say I really love Tattooine, i should be able to go there and just get dynamic quests over and over again so I can level from 1-50 on tattooine if I want to. It makes the leveling experience different every time. It gives control to the player. It encourages exploration, but doesnt require it.

 

 

Now, obviously SW:TOR is far beyond such radical changes, but there are many sandbox elements they could implement which most people would enjoy, such as:

 

1) Cosmetic Outfits - this is a sandbox feature. They give us the tools to change our appearance, and we'll spend hours and hours doing so! What we have now doesn't count because our outfit is not purely cosmetic: its tied to stats and thus we are extremely limited.

 

2) Sidegames - pazaak, swoop races, gambling, sparring tournaments, player bounties. Again, give us the tools and we'll do it.

 

3) Proper open world pvp - You've got the area. You can award valor. Just give us a proper reason! You managed it in WAR with keeps / territory control / city sieges, so why did u fail here?

 

4) Ship customisation - I realise we'll never have anything anywhere near as good as SWG housing, but letting us decorate our ship interiors would give many people many hours of enjoyment! Its a quality of life thing. It helps people get attached to their characters.

[Griad]

I would love for them to put in a little more exploration on the new planet comming later this year and maybe even some more sandbox elements.

 

1 thing that could also be a nice addition would be an open world space flight sim, like in SWG and tie fighter. They wouldnt actually need to add alot of fighters, but rather focusing on some good missions and some great areas to fly in. Maybe make a special PVP space zone.

[Lazzer]

Sandbox elements and exploration elements won't have any effect any more, they have gone the root of instances, group finders and queues. No one is going to travel any where to reach content, they will just complain until it can be added to a queuing system with a teleport.

 

My biggest disappointment is lack of anything open world post 50, and pre 50 no multigroup content. They should have broken away from endgame mentality, make the levelling process and story longer and all of the FPs up until 50 should be playable as 4, 8,12 and 16 man groups to get away from the solo game feel.

 

The other point is the game is linear until 50 after that it's chaotic with no real line of progression, operations should release one set of gear, that can be upgraded trough tier 1 Ops, that can be upgrade by tier 2 Ops. Not only that but the Ops should be chained so that drops in one open unlock the next.

 

Now what you have is do a few HM flash points for Tionese shells, then use BH comms to fill them up with mods rendering Columi and Rakata gear irrelevant.. That's what is destroying the game, people are skipping all of the content because better gear is obtainable by doing the same random 4 or 5 HM FPs from the group finder.

[Nastynas]

My server was full of players. Why should I care if the sub numbers were 100k or 10 million as long as the community was good, game made profit for the devs and servers had plenty of players? People today seems to be obsessive with big numbers.. "game gotta have at least 5-10 million players in order to be successfull!!1111one" No, it doesn't

 

Then say that instead of something false.

 

but still SWG was far more successfull in it's time and standards (Pre-CU) than this failure

 

I'd agree until November 23, 2004.

 

Still, this was likely the #3 subscription MMO in the west. Which is roughly where SWG was in its heyday.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Nastynas

[Urael]

The reason people are leaving is that the game has a ton of competition and end game gear grinds will only keep you if you already have an investment in the game (friends, long term investment, etc.) I'm not saying that sandbox features would be unwelcome. I don't have any objection to anything the OP mentioned, but the idea that if you just ADD THIS THING and the game would be a runaway success is folly. There's been no game in the last few years that's been a runaway success. SWTOR isn't a bad game, it has it warts like every other game, but the only 'failure' was thinking that any game launched in this market can keep millions of peoples' attention for years.

 

^QFT.

 

It is evident that SWTOR was never ment to be a Sandbox. This is a "on the rails" themepark. SWTOR is basically a Lobby RPG. Play the game with this in mind and with lowered "non-hyped" expectations and this game becomes even more enjoyable. SWTOR will never live up to anyones unrealistic explanations. EA/BW is not capable of producing "the next best new thing in MMORPGs" and that is OK. SWTOR is fun for what it is and not what everyone wishes it was.

[Uluain]

Sadly, development of such "quality of life" improvements, promised at the Guild Summit, seems to be in Catbox Mode - buried and forgotten, and it's making a stink. Edited August 20, 2012 by Uluain

[Goretzu]

Um, a themepark MMO can have sandbox elements, just like a sandbox mmo can have themepark elements.

 

Themepark: you get to choose what content you do, but once you've made that choice, you have to do it exactly as the developers tell you to do it.

 

Sandbox: you are given some tools that allow you to do stuff, then are left to your own devices.

 

 

The ultimate MMO, should it ever be made, will include both themepark and sandbox elements. For example, it is my belief that having classes and levels is the "best" thing for an mmo. Not because it is interesting, but because it is the only way to even begin to have balanced classes. Likewise, I also think story telling should be linear because it is the easiest and most compelling way to write it that can be understood by the masses.

 

On the other hand, I think leveling and gear should be sandbox, i.e. all gear should be crafted, need regular replacement etc and I think leveling should simply be done through acquiring XP. XP should come from any source: crafting, farming kills, pvp, questing etc. Quests should be dynamic, not static. That way, say I really love Tattooine, i should be able to go there and just get dynamic quests over and over again so I can level from 1-50 on tattooine if I want to. It makes the leveling experience different every time. It gives control to the player. It encourages exploration, but doesnt require it.

 

 

Now, obviously SW:TOR is far beyond such radical changes, but there are many sandbox elements they could implement which most people would enjoy, such as:

 

1) Cosmetic Outfits - this is a sandbox feature. They give us the tools to change our appearance, and we'll spend hours and hours doing so! What we have now doesn't count because our outfit is not purely cosmetic: its tied to stats and thus we are extremely limited.

 

2) Sidegames - pazaak, swoop races, gambling, sparring tournaments, player bounties. Again, give us the tools and we'll do it.

 

3) Proper open world pvp - You've got the area. You can award valor. Just give us a proper reason! You managed it in WAR with keeps / territory control / city sieges, so why did u fail here?

 

4) Ship customisation - I realise we'll never have anything anywhere near as good as SWG housing, but letting us decorate our ship interiors would give many people many hours of enjoyment! Its a quality of life thing. It helps people get attached to their characters.

 

 

Completely agree with all that, the only real problem I see is that interior customisation of ship would be very hard (due to how full and complex they already are). Exterior customisation should be possible though, and maybe a room in every ship. (I'd still like to see housing too though)

[Spife]

SWG kept me hooked for more than 6 years. I, too, had more than one account and payed them all gladly.

 

I'm keeping subbed in SWTOR for a few pvp battles a week only - getting lesser though.

 

I would switch back in an instant, if only it was possible, even with SOE continuing in doing nothing about the game.

 

SWTOR? Just a good replacement for SWG's boring 'legacy' questline to level. But then, in SWG the fun just started once you hit level cap. Damn, I miss SWG

[Monoth]

So, you knew (or should have known) all of this before you purchased the game and loaded a subscription. Yet you bought it and subscribed anyway.

 

I don't get it. It's like buying a truck and then complaining that it's not a car.

 

There's various degrees of themepark, some have a little sandbox elements in them, even Bioware early on said this game would have some sandbox elements, which in the end it didn't... I would say SWTOR is about as themepark as you can get even more so then WOW....

 

I had a lot of fun with the stories which is what bioware is known for and in the end this game was basically one of there RPG's made into a MMO with nothing in the end to keep you here besides gear grinds... This is why SWTOR is having a ton of trouble keep subscribers, there's just not really anything to do if your not an altholic, even then after several alts you eventually get to the point that there is nothing to do...

 

With F2P coming all your going to see is added warzones, operations and fluff items for the cash shop, I wouldn't expect to see any continuation of class stories from here on in....

 

I wouldn't say SWTOR was a failure, it has kept me here several months, the last few games I played Aion and Age of Conan kept me for about 12-18 months each before I moved on... Although in AOC case I got tired of the constant bugs and them going pay to win, and in Aion's case was the huge discrepancy between PvP gear sets, unless you had the best pvp gear you didn't stand a chance..

[mourasantos]

Um, a themepark MMO can have sandbox elements, just like a sandbox mmo can have themepark elements.

 

Themepark: you get to choose what content you do, but once you've made that choice, you have to do it exactly as the developers tell you to do it.

 

Sandbox: you are given some tools that allow you to do stuff, then are left to your own devices.

 

 

The ultimate MMO, should it ever be made, will include both themepark and sandbox elements. For example, it is my belief that having classes and levels is the "best" thing for an mmo. Not because it is interesting, but because it is the only way to even begin to have balanced classes. Likewise, I also think story telling should be linear because it is the easiest and most compelling way to write it that can be understood by the masses.

 

On the other hand, I think leveling and gear should be sandbox, i.e. all gear should be crafted, need regular replacement etc and I think leveling should simply be done through acquiring XP. XP should come from any source: crafting, farming kills, pvp, questing etc. Quests should be dynamic, not static. That way, say I really love Tattooine, i should be able to go there and just get dynamic quests over and over again so I can level from 1-50 on tattooine if I want to. It makes the leveling experience different every time. It gives control to the player. It encourages exploration, but doesnt require it.

 

 

Now, obviously SW:TOR is far beyond such radical changes, but there are many sandbox elements they could implement which most people would enjoy, such as:

 

1) Cosmetic Outfits - this is a sandbox feature. They give us the tools to change our appearance, and we'll spend hours and hours doing so! What we have now doesn't count because our outfit is not purely cosmetic: its tied to stats and thus we are extremely limited.

 

2) Sidegames - pazaak, swoop races, gambling, sparring tournaments, player bounties. Again, give us the tools and we'll do it.

 

3) Proper open world pvp - You've got the area. You can award valor. Just give us a proper reason! You managed it in WAR with keeps / territory control / city sieges, so why did u fail here?

 

4) Ship customisation - I realise we'll never have anything anywhere near as good as SWG housing, but letting us decorate our ship interiors would give many people many hours of enjoyment! Its a quality of life thing. It helps people get attached to their characters.

 

Incorrect definition of sandbox. Let me clue you in: ship customization is not an inherently sandbox feature, it can be themepark as well. For instance, its themepark variant would be if the developer provided you with several options for ship customization. On the other hand the sandbox version of the same thing would be if the player himself got design the options for customization.

 

Bioware was, and should rightly be, against the notion of sandbox because Star Wars has an aesthetic that should be protected. If this game turned sandbox it wouldn't take long for little Yodas to be running around with giant *****es in their foreheads.

Edited August 20, 2012 by mourasantos

[Durasturan]

alright, so when I think of what the devs are workin on, and various reasons people are leaving, I think of the quote from politics "It's the economy stupid!" Meaning...work on the economy instead of other issues. Well, here we are 8+ months into the game and I still cannot SIT in a chair at a cantina. I do not have chat bubbles. I cannot decorate or customise my ship in any way. Crafted items are out classed by high end pve gear. Guild ships may be on thier way but likely with the same short comings as the current ones.

 

Sandbox....sand...box....sa..

 

anyway, into the wind this rant goes

 

I think the main problem is the game just came out way too early. If the game had released in the state of 1.2... with group finder and ranked and match to chest and all the bug fixes, optimizations and enhancements that came with it. Then we would have been at 1.3 in like 2 months and at the six month mark we would have had nearly everything from their wall of crazy.

 

Instead they bushed it out while it still had 90% of the bugs we'd been complaining about for the last year in BETA testing.

[kirorx]

SWG kept me hooked for more than 6 years. I, too, had more than one account and payed them all gladly.

 

I'm keeping subbed in SWTOR for a few pvp battles a week only - getting lesser though.

 

I would switch back in an instant, if only it was possible, even with SOE continuing in doing nothing about the game.

 

SWTOR? Just a good replacement for SWG's boring 'legacy' questline to level. But then, in SWG the fun just started once you hit level cap. Damn, I miss SWG

 

I played SWG emu today, took a nice stroll around mos eisley and even placed a new small tattooine home.

 

Instead of daily warzones i decorated my home, opened a shop and hung out in the cantina talking to other players.

 

THese games could have co-existed. The stuff that swg does right, is done really right and the same can be said about the stuff done right but swtor. The stuff dont wrong by both of these games though is apparent.

 

Its a real shame we will never see a proper starwars mmos, because you can bet this will be the last one.

[LordArtemis]

Incorrect definition of sandbox. Let me clue you in: ship customization is not an inherently sandbox feature, it can be themepark as well. For instance, its themepark variant would be if the developer provided you with several options for ship customization. On the other hand the sandbox version of the same thing would be if the player himself got design the options for customization.

 

Bioware was, and should rightly be, against the notion of sandbox because Star Wars has an aesthetic that should be protected. If this game turned sandbox it wouldn't take long for little Yodas to be running around with giant *****es in their foreheads.

 

The Star Wars aesthetic was not protected in the design of the game. Not by the races offered, not by the appearance of the characters, not by the armor or gameplay offered.

 

A standard MMO RPG was overlayed with Star Wars elements and presented to the masses. Sandbox elements are absolutely required IMO to keep the title afloat.

Edited August 20, 2012 by LordArtemis

[MajikMyst]

 

 

Any story told in a non-linear way (i.e. through flash backs - a popular example would be Pulp Fiction).

 

Or if you mean a story with genuine choices? Then something like Deathtrap Dungeon.

 

 

However SWTOR linearity isn't so much in that (story), it is in everything unfortunately.

 

Pulp Fiction is still linear.. I think you need to address what linear or not linear actually mean.. Pulp ficttion was many stories.. All these mini stories were told in a linear manner..

 

Even a story with choices is going to be linear.. Anything with a beginning, middle, and an end is linear.. Even if we make choices that change the contents of the parts, it is still linear..

 

There is nothing wrong with linear..

 

My point remains.. I did know this game was going to be a linear game.. They touted their story long before release.. Stories are linear..

Edited August 20, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Pandemoniac]

To all of you people who think this game hasn't failed, that it is exactly as it was intended to be and anyone who wants sandbox just needs to move on... how do you justify EA and Bioware's action in respect to the game these last few months? How do you explain the lay-offs and the fact that the game is going f2p less than a year after release when all we heard before launch was how this game would never be f2p because that wouldn't allow the devs to invest and build the game they wanted? Honestly, I like this game, but I really wonder how much longer EA will even keep it going at this rate. They seem to have given up on it to a large degree. THEY seem to consider it a failure. Honestly, I feel like they are just playing for pride now and to recoup the money spent on developing and marketing the game. I don't feel like they're really expecting much from this game anymore. If this game doesn't start drawing in new players or getting old ones to return, I don't think EA will even bother with it for more than a year out. I think some sandbox is NECESSARY and it should go beyond what people have said so far. Instanced customizable ships are not a substitute for housing in an open world. A game where a fully-geared player at level cap only needs to run around a small part of 2-3 planets+fleet and 2-3 instanced raids is not "story driven". And I want to hang out in a cantina coz my main is a smuggler and that's what smugglers do in Star Wars, or at least they hang out in some kind of independent area and not an official government/military facility. I don't hate this game at all, I think it's still got the potential to blow every game out of the water, but I think some people have such a strong knee-jerk reaction to anyone who criticizes this game (which I can understand to some degree) that they don't see that this game is skating on thin ice. I really believe that's the case. EA and Bioware have both said that they need around 500k subs to break even. There isn't much room for error anymore and I think sandbox is absolutely necessary to keep this game interesting.

[kirorx]

To all of you people who think this game hasn't failed, that it is exactly as it was intended to be and anyone who wants sandbox just needs to move on... how do you justify EA and Bioware's action in respect to the game these last few months? How do you explain the lay-offs and the fact that the game is going f2p less than a year after release when all we heard before launch was how this game would never be f2p because that wouldn't allow the devs to invest and build the game they wanted? Honestly, I like this game, but I really wonder how much longer EA will even keep it going at this rate. They seem to have given up on it to a large degree. THEY seem to consider it a failure. Honestly, I feel like they are just playing for pride now and to recoup the money spent on developing and marketing the game. I don't feel like they're really expecting much from this game anymore. If this game doesn't start drawing in new players or getting old ones to return, I don't think EA will even bother with it for more than a year out. I think some sandbox is NECESSARY and it should go beyond what people have said so far. Instanced customizable ships are not a substitute for housing in an open world. A game where a fully-geared player at level cap only needs to run around a small part of 2-3 planets+fleet and 2-3 instanced raids is not "story driven". And I want to hang out in a cantina coz my main is a smuggler and that's what smugglers do in Star Wars, or at least they hang out in some kind of independent area and not an official government/military facility. I don't hate this game at all, I think it's still got the potential to blow every game out of the water, but I think some people have such a strong knee-jerk reaction to anyone who criticizes this game (which I can understand to some degree) that they don't see that this game is skating on thin ice. I really believe that's the case. EA and Bioware have both said that they need around 500k subs to break even. There isn't much room for error anymore and I think sandbox is absolutely necessary to keep this game interesting.

 

Dont you understand, the game is being run like a business, they will do fine.

 

With the new cash shops people will pay more than the monthy fee and easily this could almost double their profits.

 

So technically they dont need 500k they need like 200k and they will have that for sure.

 

Why add sandbox features? Just because its fun us? You see eveyday people defend this game to the death, those players would praise bioware if EA came to their house and punched thier dog in the face.

 

Those players are going to stay, so there is no reason to offer them more if they are already happy.

 

Most of the players that wanted a "sim world" with sandbox stuff and chat bubbles, have already left.

 

Its only a few haters holding on. Soon the only players that will be left will be players that enjoy SWTOR for the game it is, not the game they want it to be.

 

If you want open world play the SWGemu, if you want silly orcs Play WoW, if you want to do warzones and enjoy leveling with VO play SWTOR, if you like pvp i hear (i have not tried it) that GW2 will be good for that, If you like RP try everquest 2 (SOEemote is incredible)

 

Maybe its time to move on to something you enjoy and stop trying to fix something that is "working as intended" even if its not the way you would have intended.

 

SWTOR will find its target market even if your not a part of it.

[AstralProjection]

Dont you understand, the game is being run like a business, they will do fine.

 

With the new cash shops people will pay more than the monthy fee and easily this could almost double their profits.

 

So technically they dont need 500k they need like 200k and they will have that for sure.

 

Why add sandbox features? Just because its fun us? You see eveyday people defend this game to the death, those players would praise bioware if EA came to their house and punched thier dog in the face.

 

Those players are going to stay, so there is no reason to offer them more if they are already happy.

 

Most of the players that wanted a "sim world" with sandbox stuff and chat bubbles, have already left.

 

Its only a few haters holding on. Soon the only players that will be left will be players that enjoy SWTOR for the game it is, not the game they want it to be.

 

If you want open world play the SWGemu, if you want silly orcs Play WoW, if you want to do warzones and enjoy leveling with VO play SWTOR, if you like pvp i hear (i have not tried it) that GW2 will be good for that, If you like RP try everquest 2 (SOEemote is incredible)

 

Maybe its time to move on to something you enjoy and stop trying to fix something that is "working as intended" even if its not the way you would have intended.

 

SWTOR will find its target market even if your not a part of it.

 

Maybe you should stop assuming you know the future of this game any better than anyone else here.

 

Obviously even the people who work for the company either

 

a) Don't know the future.

 

or

 

b) Are liars.

 

As long as the suggestions forum exists, people are right in their desire to post suggestions that they think would make the game better.

 

As a poster a few above me said, if you took everything SWG did right, and everything TOR did right, and blend them, you'd have the best game ever made. Stop assuming games can only cater to one demographic.

 

This game only has to be a pitiful WoW clone if you let it stay that way and never open your mouth.

 

Quit or become complacent is probably the worst advice for any situation that doesn't involve a gun to your head.

[kirorx]

Maybe you should stop assuming you know the future of this game any better than anyone else here.

 

Obviously even the people who work for the company either

 

a) Don't know the future.

 

or

 

b) Are liars.

 

As long as the suggestions forum exists, people are right in their desire to post suggestions that they think would make the game better.

 

As a poster a few above me said, if you took everything SWG did right, and everything TOR did right, and blend them, you'd have the best game ever made. Stop assuming games can only cater to one demographic.

 

This game only has to be a pitiful WoW clone if you let it stay that way and never open your mouth.

 

Quit or become complacent is probably the worst advice for any situation that doesn't involve a gun to your head.

 

Its not a CAUSE you are FIGHTING for its a video game.

 

I will make it simple for you

 

If its not fun dont play it because you can't change it, because you dont work there.

 

It's just a video game, relax. Just because it does not offer features you and I think should be in this game, hardly

means that it is a failure.

Edited August 21, 2012 by kirorx

[AstralProjection]

Its not a CAUSE you are FIGHTING for its a video game.

 

I will make it simple for you

 

If its not fun dont play it because you can't change it, because you dont work there.

 

It's just a video game, relax. Just because it does not offer features you and I think should be in this game, hardly

means that it is a failure.

 

I am relaxed, and never called the game a failure. I did call it a pitiful WoW clone, because right now it's the most stripped down theme park implementation ever.

 

There are parts of the game that are done very, very well, like the storylines, the combat, the companions, the item modding system, etc. I play the game because those are fun.

 

I am not wrong for wanting more, and neither is anyone else in this thread, that's where you're wrong.

 

A lot of the things people are asking for, like Player Housing or some kind of base building, are in basically every MMORPG out there, minus WoW, which gives you nothing outside the theme park (and TOR copied, sadly).

 

Most of us didn't expect all of those elements to be in at launch, and are giving BioWare time to develop the game into what it can be. To say "this is all there will ever be" in an MMORPG, the definition of a constantly evolving game where what you see is almost always NOT what you're going to be stuck with in the end, is just foolish.

 

There are ways to develop Sandbox elements without overhauling the game, simply adding on to it. That's one of the few benefits of this heavily instanced set up. The saving grace of this game is going to be that it can change and evolve - seeing F2P after being sworn to that it would never happen is just one great example of that. You don't know the future of this game better than anyone else, so again, stop giving people bad advice who are just trying to give their ideas to make the game better in a constructive way.

 

Your attitude begs the question - with your point of view, what the hell are you doing in a suggestions forum?

Edited August 21, 2012 by AstralProjection

[kirorx]

Your attitude begs the question - with your point of view, what the hell are you doing in a suggestions forum?

LOL, i will give you that one

 

Its not that i dont want these things and I agree that mixing stuff from swtor and swg would be awesome.

 

The things that are missing, these sandbox elements. We have been asking for them before this game was launched.

 

Had Bioware wanted to create a SWG sandbox feeling game they would have, they went with choice B. Addictive elements like gear grinds and soon level cap increases and of course alt rerolls. Get people to play for hours all the same content over and over. Surprisingly there are alot of players still, and they love that stuff.

 

The point is there are enough people that love this game the way it is, why would they need to change it for you or me. Its working for them, because people defend this game to the death, no matter what content may be missing.

 

I recently stumbled on the SOEmote thing that Everquest 2 offers and i gave it a try (we dont have chat bubbles, but they have this awesome element) , I spent an hour just swimming around, they have a so many EMOTEs and just so much more than SWTOR offers, you can even change to alt apperance on a whim and of course there is an apperance tab.

 

SWTOR just cant compete with that syle, the loading screen alone make SWTOR a different game all together.

We dont have day/night cycles and whats funny was the amount of people prelaunch that kept calling all that stuff fluff.

 

The GCW stuff from SWG can't happen because the engine just wont allow it.

 

In SWG we had multiple starports and cities, these planets here dont even have cities and only one starport per faction.

 

Look you got accept that SWTOR is designed with a certain demographic in mind and its not the sim world RPG mmo player, you can log in an enjoy if for what it is or you can whine and cry on the forums because it was not catered to your playstyle, either was SWTOR is not going anywhere.

 

The Storylines are great, combat IMO is awesome, looks and feels awesome to shock people but its just not the open world style game.

 

That is fine for alot of players

Edited August 21, 2012 by kirorx

[TrakonBazzaak]

PVP should be focus? Says who? You?

 

 

PVE is the major form of gaming in MMOs. That they chose not to make the PVE deep ala EQ does not mean it should of gone to the other extreme. Sandboxes suck to many of us, and you would do well to remember so.

 

Given the limited popularity of this game, the community has literally thousands if not tens of thousands of us "sandbox" players lurking around who loved SWG.

 

This is reconfirmed for me every single day on the fleet, in my guild, here on the forums, and in many other forums dedicated to mmorpgs.

 

Were not here because its a crappy wow clone, were here because of Star Wars. YOU WOULD DO WELL TO REMEMBER THIS!

 

That said, the op is right. I have all the alts I want, I have all the gear I want.

 

What now?

 

In the end an MMO should be judged on how addictive it is, how much I actually WANT to play.

 

I hate to break it to ya bud, but right now for me, being almost fully pve(next week and Im done) and completely pvp geared, this is a glorified chat program where I get to ride around in circles on the fleet.

 

Im not alone.

 

If they added things like planetary control pvp, instanced player housing, customizable ships, galactic control space pvp and pve, pazaak, swoop races and the like this game would stabalize.

 

If they continue to release this snails pace easy as pie pve content, you are gonna see the same thing you have been seeing for months. A slow bleed out of subs until the licensing is up.

 

.......and the result?

 

A themepark mmo gets to sleep right next to its sandbox grand daddy in the grave of unfulfilled potential.