They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Gerandar]

if they charge for it i'm not buying it nor will I give them another dime, it is not nearly enough content to be called an expansion. one planet does not = expansion worthy of charging for.

[Andryah]

Statements like these would leave one to believe that part of the service, we are paying for, is free content updates. They lead one to believe that ..... because thats what they mean.

 

Nonsense. You are extracting out of context from the ToS.

 

Believe what you like, but if you consult an attorney on the statements in the ToS they will help you correct your thinking.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Andryah

[discosoc]

We convinced ourselves because that is the industry standard. It doesnt cost anything to run a game server. Well not anything but its peanuts. It sure doesnt cost 15 bucks a month per player. Show me another online genre, that you pay for a full price game but cant play it unless you also pay 15 bucks a month. There are none. The only way they can justify you continually paying for something... above and beyond the cost of a regular game... is to add in content updates. Thats the industry standard. MMO is based on a persistant, ever changing world. That is the draw of them. The willingness to pay is because you know its going to grow. I dont think anyone, in their right mind, would sit there and pay for something, after they bought it, if they didnt feel they were going to get more.

 

You buy the box, you already paid for the game. Which, btw, is why I think the sub model is outdated. Its rediculous to pay 60 bucks for something that could shut down tommorow and you never have access to it ever again. Its like flushing money down the toilet.

 

You're preaching to the choir here. Subs are annoying, especially after having paid for the core game. All I'm saying is that when you agree to buy and subscribe to an MMO, you are only fooling yourself if you think they have some contractual obligation to provide regular content updates in exchange for your sub. They don't. They certainly imply it, such as the often thrown around quote by James about giving players a good value, but that means nothing.

 

Regardless, most MMO's do provide some level of free content, but none are bound by any sort of development code or EULA contract. They try and do it because it's good for business.

 

Our rights, as consumers, are limited to simply not paying for the subscription for whatever reason we think appropriate. Nothing more.

[Soluss]

Nonsense. You are extracting out of context from the ToS.

 

Believe what you like, but if you consult an attorney on the statements in the ToS they will help you correct your thinking.

 

I dont care about suing. I care about right and wrong. What the company is doing is wrong. It is not nonsense to think you will get a bunch of free content updates when James Ohlen says "after that the content will roll out month after month after month... its exciting. We want to customers to feel like they are getting their moneys worth"

 

Im sorry its not nonsense. Look, you love the game and nothing they do is going to change that. I respect that. Now please respect why we dont. To argue with almost 2 million people that quit the game, should tell you something. We all quit for our own various reasons, but alot of the reasons were near identical. I assure you that it had nothing to do with not affording 15 bucks a month.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Soluss

[Soluss]

You're preaching to the choir here. Subs are annoying, especially after having paid for the core game. All I'm saying is that when you agree to buy and subscribe to an MMO, you are only fooling yourself if you think they have some contractual obligation to provide regular content updates in exchange for your sub. They don't. They certainly imply it, such as the often thrown around quote by James about giving players a good value, but that means nothing.

 

Regardless, most MMO's do provide some level of free content, but none are bound by any sort of development code or EULA contract. They try and do it because it's good for business.

 

Our rights, as consumers, are limited to simply not paying for the subscription for whatever reason we think appropriate. Nothing more.

 

Yeah, I get what you are saying. They arent LEGALLY obligated to give us anything. Im not disputing that. Just like I wouldnt dispute that im legally obligated to keep paying them. Im arguing that its poor customer service. I think we agree here.

[Wayshuba]

...snip...

 

The only way to change it is to stop buying EAs products, but I don't think enough of us have the will to do that.

 

No, I think it is happening. Every EA title in the last year and a half has missed estimates. There is a big reason for it, and the vote for Worst company in America. People are tired of the EA rip off machine and are moving on. EA, in general, is in trouble and if they don't do something to turn around their image soon, the will eventually hit the dead pile.

[Wayshuba]

Yeah, I get what you are saying. They arent LEGALLY obligated to give us anything. Im not disputing that. Just like I wouldnt dispute that im legally obligated to keep paying them. Im arguing that its poor customer service. I think we agree here.

 

And neither are we LEGALLY obligated to purchase from EA. Companies can rest on their legal laurels and contracts all they like, but they survive on revenue and profit. Too many have forgotten that and thus why too many companies are getting mashed now a days.

[Styxx]

Nonsense. You are extracting out of context from the ToS.

 

Believe what you like, but if you consult an attorney on the statements in the ToS they will help you correct your thinking.

 

Legally, he is wrong. Morally he is right.

 

Ultimately, his point of view is the only one that matters, because he, as player, can elect to pay for a product, or not pay.

 

This is not a legal contest and has never been one. It is about making us, the players, want to pay for their product. And they aren`t doing a very good job.

 

IMO, I DO hope this game to get better and strive in the new F2P era. But I won`t pay for content that should have been mine to begin with - Makeb and any patch bundle they might push down my throat. Because there won`t really be ANY reason to have a sub, if we need to pay for new content. And that is my legal right, too

Edited August 21, 2012 by Styxx

[Herang]

The plain and simple fact they have been promising a lot and not delivering. There minds are more wish washy then a 10 year old girls looking for a pair of pants. I speak for myself i will be unsubbing and deleting this game from my hard drive. As for the collectors edition statue i over payed for ill have me a lil fire. Any of the expansions that i payed for with WOW were a hell of a lot more content than what is being offered right now to us with makeb even with the five levels. I mean look at all the content you got with lich king and Cata. Especially burning crusade i mean really to say this is a expansion is pretty pathetic. If they consider this a expansion and TRY to make subs pay then well they will officially kill this game. People need to stop drinking the kool aid and think for themselves. Read all the information given out to you and make your own decision. I have my doubts on wether people will do this but hey. Stop drinking the koolaid and start thinking for yourself. I think you will realize given the amount of bs we've been fed over and over again its a very distinct possibility that they will try to make us pay or bend us over in some way shape or form. I for one am gonna wait and see what happens give em a chance before i go insane. Maybe they'll actually listen to the community this time.

[Raynn]

Same here. Bioware's backpedal on the Makeb issue shows how much EA is running the show these days. First, they assured sub users that they wouldn't be charging for Makeb. Now it's 'up in the air'. Thats total BS. How long does one planet really last in the game? Maybe a few days if you work a full time job? You can't compare one planet to normal MMO expansions. Just look at WoW (BC, WTOLK, Cata), LOTRO (Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, Rise of Isengard, adn now Riders of Rohan), or Rift (Storm Legion). THESE are legitimate expansions. The amount of content can keep most users going for more then a few days. Dropping one planet with about 10 hours of content is not an MMO expansion. It may count as DLC in a single player game, but MMOs are run differently.

 

Personally, I think EA is pulling the same crap that they usually do and trying to milk every cent out of something before they pull the plug. I'm waiting to see what happens before I cancel my sub, but with EA's track record, I'm not exactly confident. Oh, and plugging quality of life features (which should have been in game from day one) does not count as content update. Seriously, this game is 8 months old and Soa is still buggy as hell (We won't go into the 1-3 second lag spikes for HM EC. That just makes things more interesting anyway...lol).

 

PS: Had to repost here since they closed the other thread.

[Herang]

totally agree there ryan how many raids were added over time and content over time after you bought boc , lich king, cata. This thread will be closed soon i have a feeling

[vandana_]

Starting this Fall, there will be two ways to enjoy the game. First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge.

 

This is from the free-to-play announcement blog entry written by the same man who now doesn't know whether to charge for Makeb or not.

 

So were you lying Jeff?

Edited August 21, 2012 by vandana_

[Cavell]

Why are we even discussing this? When F2P was announced, a huge contingent said there was no way that EA could run an F2P game, that it would go P2W, and they'd squeeze cash everywhere.

 

We weren't wrong when we said it, which is why astroturfers like Andryah have had to shift tunes from, "They said all content updates will be free for subscribers, god you guys," to, "Look, it's legit if they charge subscribers, because they'll be calling it an expansion pack."

 

They will not deliver on their promises. Why break long-standing patterns?

[Alkiii]

If they end up charging for Makeb (even for monthly subscription holders), I can assure you, this game will not only bleed subscriptions like no other MMO has ever seen, but this game will go down in flames.

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why they would even consider this. It's as if the people running this game have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

[Cavell]

If they end up charging for Makeb (even for monthly subscription holders), I can assure you, this game will not only bleed subscriptions like no other MMO has ever seen, but this game will go down in flames.

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why they would even consider this. It's as if the people running this game have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

Hey, now. You're talking about the guys responsible for WAR.

[vandana_]

If they end up charging for Makeb (even for monthly subscription holders), I can assure you, this game will not only bleed subscriptions like no other MMO has ever seen, but this game will go down in flames.

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why they would even consider this. It's as if the people running this game have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

 

While I endured everything that they put us through including months with no content... if they want a dime for Makeb from subscribers I'm gone. And they're pulling out this crap a week before GW2 launch when half of my guild is actually considering quitting and I would like to tell them something that could convince them not to. Incredible.

Edited August 21, 2012 by vandana_

[Alkiii]

While I endured everything that they put us through including months with no content... if they want a dime for Makeb from subscribers I'm gone. And they're pulling out this crap a week before GW2 launch. Incredible.

 

I have to agree. It just doesn't make sense. The vagueness, the silence. There are a lot of people that are upset about what is going on and they act as if they do not care. With GW2 coming, they act like it's no big deal. Granted, GW2 isn't the SWTOR killer, but it is another option for gamers. An option that will take more players from this game at a time when this game is trying desperately to keep subs/players.

 

It just doesn't make sense ... are they purposely trying to run this game into the ground?

[Herang]

maybe the reason they are trying to kill it is because they own stocks in the company that made GW2. just saying

[Knockerz]

It depends how big Makeb is and what will come with that patch. In wow each expansion has brought in new battlegrounds and raids. However, new raids and dungeons are introduced throughout the life of an expansion.

 

This new patch is a mix bag. If this patch is the size of patch 1.2, then it doesn't really fit the profile of an expansion. Now if the Makeb patch comes with new warzones, raids, dungeons, companions, pazaak, space missions, expand current story, and Makeb being 2-3 times larger than corellia or voss, then I can see it being more like an expansion than a mere content patch. Coming out with smaller expansion each 6-8 months compared to one large expansion every 2 years isn't bad so long as it cost the same compared to the 2 year expansion pack.

 

All this is speculation since no one knows just how much content BW plans to release with the Makeb patch. I have a hunch that EA/BW is blowing how much content the Makeb patch actually has like how 1.2 and 1.3 patches didn't live up to the hype EA/BW made it out to be.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Knockerz

[GooseGrims]

While I endured everything that they put us through including months with no content... if they want a dime for Makeb from subscribers I'm gone. And they're pulling out this crap a week before GW2 launch when half of my guild is actually considering quitting and I would like to tell them something that could convince them not to. Incredible.

 

my guild already left to wait for GW2, im probly going to join them. GW2 looks like an ok game and is launching with everything BEAware is struggling with. but still going to keep my sub active till F2P hits just to see what happens.

 

but yes it is incredible they would discuss something like this and make it public knowledge right before a new MMO launches, makes you wonder if they are trying to destroy thier own game, or if they are just that ignorant.

[Alkiii]

It depends how big Makeb is and what will come with that patch. In wow each expansion has brought in new battlegrounds and raids. However, new raids and dungeons are introduced throughout the life of an expansion.

 

This new patch is a mix bag. If this patch is the size of patch 1.2, then it doesn't really fit the profile of an expansion. Now if the Makeb comes with new warzones, raids, and dungeons, companions, pazaak, space missions, expand current story, and Makeb is 2-3 times larger than corellia or voss, then I can see it being more like an expansion than a mere content patch. Coming out with smaller expansion each 6-8 months than one large expansion every 2 years isn't bad so long as it cost the same compared to the 2 year expansion pack.

 

All this is speculation since no one knows just how much content BW plans to release with the Makeb patch. I have a hunch that EA/BW is blowing how much content the Makeb patch actually has like how 1.2 and 1.3 patches didn't live up to the hype EA/BW made it out to be.

 

I will not pay for "smaller expansions" every 6-8 months while paying a monthly subscription to an MMO.

[Tremed]

They have already said this will not be an expansion and you will not be charged for it.

 

remember when they said this game would first come out? yea that really worked out for them too.

[Alkiii]

remember when they said this game would first come out? yea that really worked out for them too.

 

remember when they said that there would be content delivered every month?

remember when they said that ranked warzones would be in 1.2 then pulled them a few hours before the patch?

remember when they said that ... well, you get the point.

 

I don't trust EA. I now do not trust Bioware. It will take an act of Congress for me to buy another product from EA ever again. Their track record is getting more and more muddy. They've forgotten how to make quality games. They want quantity, not quality and it's a damn shame.

[Knockerz]

I will not pay for "smaller expansions" every 6-8 months while paying a monthly subscription to an MMO.

 

I don't see the difference. If you have to pay $59 for a new expansion every two years like wow, will it make any difference if wow released an expansion pack every year and charged $29 for it, but overall you get the same amount of content.

 

Personally, I rather pay for smaller expansions cause then you know what you are getting. For cataclysm Blizzard said the abyssal maul would be a raid, but decided to axe it. If cataclysm were released in smaller expansions packs, then the customer pays for what they think is worth it. It forces a company to deliver better quality content or else people won't buy it. Delivering a large expansion gives them more leeway in that the company can back out of promised content, but not legally binding content.

 

As for this patch. I do agree that due to the way swtor has been handle Makeb should be free to subscribers. Both patch 1.2 and 1.3 were more like required patches since the game launched a bit early and need to have some required mmorpg features that were missing at launch. My previous post were more in tune for future expansion packs assuming this game makes it that far.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Knockerz

[Knockerz]

remember when they said that there would be content delivered every month?

remember when they said that ranked warzones would be in 1.2 then pulled them a few hours before the patch?

remember when they said that ... well, you get the point.

 

I don't trust EA. I now do not trust Bioware. It will take an act of Congress for me to buy another product from EA ever again. Their track record is getting more and more muddy. They've forgotten how to make quality games. They want quantity, not quality and it's a damn shame.

 

It isn't just BW, but ever game company under EA and Activision. I won't be buying any of their games for the same reason. Hopefully we have another video game crash like in the 80's.