PT 'nerf' incoming

[TheronFett]

This would effectively render Pyrotech near useless in my opinion. The 'glass cannon' effect is tripled if there are no defensive cooldowns also implemented to compensate. A range nerf would turn the Pyro spec into something similar to Concealment Operative, but with no utility.

 

Better get used to playing AP.

[SajPl]

I just hope they nerf Pyrotech i play Advanced Prototype and im tired of dying with like 6 attacks from a Pyrotech. All the pyrotechs will whine because they hate requiring skill but im glad there nerfin em. I usually play melee range anyway. good job bioware!

 

I absolutely love AP and this change will hurt AP even more than pyro. We dont have a reduced CD on the shiled so kiting is the only effective tool against malee - pop hydraulic ovverrrides and keep them at 10 meters - this is a defensive cooldown, after a nerf to range it will be like this : eat dots that tick for 1.6k or eat a 15k tavage or a 6.5k smash with no chance to do anything about that, while you are doing next to no damage because of either 99% reduction *undying rage or 45% reduction (cloak of pain+saber ward), everything is resisted (shadows resilience). Balance - nerf something but give us more survivability in that case.

[HammerHermann]

This doesn't bother me as a PT. Im in melee range always unless I'm killing a marauder.

[Projawa]

This right here is the problem. The game is primarily a PvE game. class balance should be done around Pve content!

 

once you start balancing a PvE game around PvP, you ruin the primary part of the game, look at what happened to WoW (although they did fix it in the end)

 

Indeed, though for some reason most devs believe they can succeed at balancing a PVE game around PVP rather than learning from historical patterns and just avoid that quagmire altogether. It's kind of like the USA's campaign in Afghanistan- instead of studying the historical failures of the British and Russian campaigns they marched in and have failed to achieve their objectives as most military historians predicted. Optimism, good intentions, and old-fashioned gusto only get you so far.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Projawa

[Altheran]

I see lot of people writing "they can't lower range it will kill Merc"...

 

Did have they ever thought of how Cull/Weakening Blast/Overload Shot can have 10m range for Operative while having 35m range for Sniper, or of how Project/Telekinetic Throw/Force Slow can have 10m range on Shadow while having 30m range on Sage

Edited August 28, 2012 by Altheran

[BillEdwardz]

I see lot of people writing "they can't lower range it will kill Merc"...

 

Did have they ever thought of how Cull/Weakening Blast/Overload Shot can have 10m range for Operative while having 35m range for Sniper, or of how Project/Telekinetic Throw/Force Slow can have 10m range on Shadow while having 30m range on Sage

 

I didn't realize this. I've only played a Merc and a PT and currently there is no ability where the range differs between them.

[SajPl]

I see lot of people writing "they can't lower range it will kill Merc"...

 

Did have they ever thought of how Cull/Weakening Blast/Overload Shot can have 10m range for Operative while having 35m range for Sniper, or of how Project/Telekinetic Throw/Force Slow can have 10m range on Shadow while having 30m range on Sage

 

So will shadows projject, telekinetic throw, slow time, sentinels crippling throw, blade storm, dispatch, scoundrels wounding shots, shrap bomb, vital shot, will all those 10-30 m abilities that other malee classes have, will all of them be made 4 meter? Serious question bioware.

[Altheran]

So will shadows projject, telekinetic throw, slow time, sentinels crippling throw, blade storm, dispatch, scoundrels wounding shots, shrap bomb, vital shot, will all those 10-30 m abilities that other malee classes have, will all of them be made 4 meter? Serious question bioware.

 

I'll answer for them. All these guys are already stucked at 4m to be fully effective, all attacks that are the basis of their playstyle are 4m. All the attacks you named here have a CD and/or have a too high cost to only rely on them. And even if at some times they can free themselve of the 4m limit (and not every melee AC can really do this), they reach 10m at most.

 

Shadow : Double strike/Clairvoyant Strike/Shadow Strike

Operative : Shiv/Hidden Strike/Laceration/Debilitate

Sentinels : Fence/Merciless Strike/Blade Rush/Zealous Strike/Cauterize/Leg Slash/Precision Slash

All these one are 4m and are attacks on which they rely a lot (because of dmg output or ability to proc things)

 

Comparing to your AC, you're the only one who don't rely so much on 4m abilities (you only have only Rocket Punch) and can even afford to fight at 30m sometimes. With these changes (if true) you'll be like any others, you'll be able to fight at 10m at some point but you'll have to close the range at 4m to be fully effective (fillers & proccing attacks).

Edited August 29, 2012 by Altheran

[SneiK]

I'll answer for them. All these guys are already stucked at 4m to be fully effective, all attacks that are the basis of their playstyle are 4m. All the attacks you named here have a CD and/or have a too high cost to only rely on them. And even if at some times they can free themselve of the 4m limit (and not every melee AC can really do this), they reach 10m at most.

 

Shadow : Double strike/Clairvoyant Strike/Shadow Strike

Operative : Shiv/Hidden Strike/Laceration/Debilitate

Sentinels : Fence/Merciless Strike/Blade Rush/Zealous Strike/Cauterize/Leg Slash/Precision Slash

All these one are 4m and are attacks on which they rely a lot (because of dmg output or ability to proc things)

 

Comparing to your AC, you're the only one who don't rely so much on 4m abilities (you only have only Rocket Punch) and can even afford to fight at 30m sometimes. With these changes (if true) you'll be like any others, you'll be able to fight at 10m at some point but you'll have to close the range at 4m to be fully effective (fillers & proccing attacks).

 

You will get your butt kicked in 4m against all the classes you mentionted above. That's not being effective now is it?

 

It sure is nice to be 4m, when the enemy doesn't fight back. But their vastly superior burst (I know, true story tho), defensive CDs, and gap closers (all the 'real' melee in the game gets either stealth or leap...PT gets 45sec pull that causes resolve, and bugs often) make them truly 4m classes. As a PT, you never want to go 4m, unless you are going for an RP proc (And that's in and out, no point sticking around at 4m), or you are against a ranged class that you also have to interrupt.

[mugen_dom]

Once again, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE "NERF" is...everyone is speculating as to what is going to happen. It really grinds my gears, all the whining about the nerf PT's are getting. Lets wait till we know whats happening before getting angry about this stuff.

[SajPl]

I'll answer for them. All these guys are already stucked at 4m to be fully effective, all attacks that are the basis of their playstyle are 4m. All the attacks you named here have a CD and/or have a too high cost to only rely on them. And even if at some times they can free themselve of the 4m limit (and not every melee AC can really do this), they reach 10m at most.

 

Shadow : Double strike/Clairvoyant Strike/Shadow Strike

Operative : Shiv/Hidden Strike/Laceration/Debilitate

Sentinels : Fence/Merciless Strike/Blade Rush/Zealous Strike/Cauterize/Leg Slash/Precision Slash

All these one are 4m and are attacks on which they rely a lot (because of dmg output or ability to proc things)

 

Comparing to your AC, you're the only one who don't rely so much on 4m abilities (you only have only Rocket Punch) and can even afford to fight at 30m sometimes. With these changes (if true) you'll be like any others, you'll be able to fight at 10m at some point but you'll have to close the range at 4m to be fully effective (fillers & proccing attacks).

 

Each of the true malee classes has at least 3 defensive cooldowns/escape abilities, question is If powertechs are made true malee, will we get at least 2 additional shields and storm instead of harpoon? Right now the 10m range and slow are a defensive cooldown, take that away - give something in return, cloak of pain and undying rage please.

[BillEdwardz]

Each of the true malee classes has at least 3 defensive cooldowns/escape abilities, question is If powertechs are made true malee, will we get at least 2 additional shields and storm instead of harpoon? Right now the 10m range and slow are a defensive cooldown, take that away - give something in return, cloak of pain and undying rage please.

 

I agree but I can already assume what Bioware would reply to that: No. PTs have Heavy Armour.

[nomadh]

Marauders SHOULD be High DPS , the highest IMO , well them and Snipers

They can't Heal or Tank , They can Only DPS .. If thats all you can do you, traded choice and options later for whoop***** now.

 

PT's Need Nerfed , Mercs Need Buffed , Rauders are perfect, Tankassins Need Nerfed , if only a little , so many defensive CD's that they are the only class I cant solo , even with a head start. Snipers need buffed .. Juggs need MEGA buffed

 

These are all based on PVP , not PvE

 

<------ WOW is that way

[Crawelc]

4m range on our Flame burst will make pyrotech useless against melees even more so now. So it weakens pyros, but makes sorcs and mercs stronger and makes the pyro a free kill for maras,juggs, snipers, dps ops, and dps sins. I have zero issue with IM and RS being put to 10m, but if you nerf Flame burst to 4m, you better compensate by giving us more defensive cooldowns. And dont give my that crap about heavy armor, heavy armor is junk in pvp, as 80% of all attacks ignore mitigation from armor.

 

The irony of this coming from a PT is so sweet.

[DacRycar]

The problem that most people's ideas about Vanguards is that, because they carry a gun, they're "ranged." Currently, our key abilities are at 4 meters, 10 meters and 30 meters.

 

The single 4 meter ability is Stockstrike/Rocket Punch. This ability, regardless of spec, is used to proc benefits for our other abilities -- whether it be a refresh on High Impact Bolt (30 meter) and application of Ion Cell DoT (there is also a reverse proc that has Ion Pulse and Flame Pulse proc a free Stockstrike).

 

The mid-ranged ability, Ion Pulse/Flame Burst is 10 meters. This is the ability most people have issues with because it allows a Vanguard/Powertech to "kite." There is also the 31-point talent Flame Pulse/Immolate in the middle tree and Energy Burst in the tanking tree.

 

The long-ranged abilities include High Impact Bolt and Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator which can be cast at 30 meters. These two abilities are on moderately-long cooldowns of 15 seconds; however, High Impact Bolt in the Assault/Pyro tree can be refreshed every 6 seconds on a 45/60% proc from Ion Pulse/Stockstrike.

 

Good Vanguards and Powertechs are already engaging in melee as soon as possible in order to rotate their Stockstrikes/Rocket Punches and optimizing their DPS. What is nice about the class, in a game that is heavily melee classed (both Knights, both Warriors, Shadows, Assassins, Scoundrels and Operatives) is its ability to strafe into and out of melee and mid-ranged combat. The further a Vanguard leaves melee range, however, the lower their damage per second becomes.

 

The closer they get into melee, the higher their damage ramps up. Its in melee that you see the High Impact Bolts hitting more often (about every 6 seconds) because Stockstrike has a 60% chance to refresh it (Ion Pulse, 10 meters, has a 45% chance).

 

My opinion is that since the majority of the players are melee classes they are upset by a Vanguard's ability to "kite" away from them. They do not attempt to counter this with the various (and often spamable) slows and roots these melee classes have to keep the Vanguard in melee distance. The heavy armor that a DPS Vanguard wears is a joke because in PvP armor is laughable. Apart from a Vanguard's 78% armor penetration (the two talents are not stackable) we have Combat Sentinel's with 100% armor penetration for 4 seconds and a variety of elemental and internal damage that isn't mitigated by armor. I hope this developer who said this was mistranslated.

Edited September 2, 2012 by DacRycar

[Metalmac]

4m range on our Flame burst will make pyrotech useless against melees even more so now. So it weakens pyros, but makes sorcs and mercs stronger and makes the pyro a free kill for maras,juggs, snipers, dps ops, and dps sins. I have zero issue with IM and RS being put to 10m, but if you nerf Flame burst to 4m, you better compensate by giving us more defensive cooldowns. And dont give my that crap about heavy armor, heavy armor is junk in pvp, as 80% of all attacks ignore mitigation from armor.

 

They are going to make your Grapple 2 times faster and you will be able to keep a target right next to you for flame bursts. This means you will be almost impossible to get away from, also bet money you will have full Reslove almost the entire match.

[yoomazir]

They are going to make your Grapple 2 times faster and you will be able to keep a target right next to you for flame bursts. This means you will be almost impossible to get away from, also bet money you will have full Reslove almost the entire match.

 

About the grapple thing, you got it as a fact or did it came from your imagination?

[BillEdwardz]

As we really only have like a 4 ability rotation logically I'm only seeing Flame Burst get moved down to 4m since the other 30m abilities are on cd/ not spammable. IDk... I dont see the range mechanics of us being OP just the damage... Like I said earlier in this thread it would make more sense to just bring the DOT damage down a bit. Edited September 3, 2012 by BillEdwardz

[Metalmac]

About the grapple thing, you got it as a fact or did it came from your imagination?

 

No it was in a European discussion with BioWare that a buddy attended.

It was stated this was the solution to lowering the range would need Grapple/Hook faster to make up for this.

So charge target and keep hooking it till dead, now you may get killed but this fixes both complaints.

[yoomazir]

No it was in a European discussion with BioWare that a buddy attended.

It was stated this was the solution to lowering the range would need Grapple/Hook faster to make up for this.

So charge target and keep hooking it till dead, now you may get killed but this fixes both complaints.

 

Well since you've got knowledge of future tweaks, did he said anything about those gimpy mercs?

Edited September 3, 2012 by yoomazir

[Chaoskyx]

Well shoot, the main reason I like the class is because of the mid-range capability.

[Megatfx]

Well shoot, the main reason I like the class is because of the mid-range capability.

 

I guarantee you like the class because of it's "mid-range" functionality. I am sure it has nothing to do with how much damage you can do or how extremely simple it is to play.

 

It's the mid-range functionality that you like most about it.

[Evuo]

I guarantee you like the class because of it's "mid-range" functionality. I am sure it has nothing to do with how much damage you can do or how extremely simple it is to play.

 

It's the mid-range functionality that you like most about it.

 

It's definately not a possibility he could be playing as a tank. They do so much damage, have amazing defensive cds, the best utility, and are so simple to play that one is required for every ranked team.

[DacRycar]

It's definately not a possibility he could be playing as a tank. They do so much damage, have amazing defensive cds, the best utility, and are so simple to play that one is required for every ranked team.

 

What? What did you say? "Amazing defensive cooldowns"? Plural?

 

We have one. ONE! Singular. One good defensive 2-minute cooldown which reduces damage by 25% for 12 seconds. That's a quarter of the incoming damage ignored. Its NOT "amazing," especially when stacked against the plethora (that means "many") of defensive cooldowns Sentinels and Shadows possess.

 

My sarcasm senses were tingling when I read this post, but I'm going to rage in spite of it. Google before posting.

[Suryi]

If you had doubts about wether or not he was being sarcastic then

one is required for every ranked team.

should've been a dead giveaway.