Roles in Rated Warzones?

[TheronFett]

People need to start understanding that the 1 versus 1 deathmatch scenario makes and breaks rated teams class composition. If a class 1 on 1 is superior than another then said person can force unfair trades to an off-point. The moment a class is unviable in 1 versus 1 they become dead weight at holding or forcing movement to capture objectives.

 

You fail to understand to capture any point in a rated game you have to imbalance your opponites to gain a numerical advantage at the desired point to capture. If a class is mechanically inferior (Sorcerer DPS and Commando DPS versus PT, Marauder, Tank assassin) you cannot force that numerical advantage. Why does another team need to send 2 people when one is sufficient enough?

 

Don't feel bad that you again are with the 50% of people who don't understand how class mechanics affect strategy and the ability to win.The moment you understand how trading people works in PvP you will suddenly realize everything you say is 100% complete nonsense.

 

Others have already had a little chuckle at your misguided response, so I'll save you the embarrassment of another. Posting a reply to tell you why you're utterly wrong won't do any good either, since you won't understand a word anyway.

[TheronFett]

This is where some classes, classes that lack an escape, interrupt or simply are too squishy, are screwed. Those classes need to be given either an escape ability, like some other classes have, or enough dps to make up their other shortcomings.

 

Classes don't need to be given anything to make them more viable on the battlefield. The mentality of "I wish I had what the other guy has" is full of fail. Players can either play to their class strengths, or they can't. Simple as that. You show me a Merc who complains about his DPS, and I'll show you a better Merc tops the charts every game. You show me a Sorc who says they're too squishy, and I'll show you a better Sorc who dies 3 times or less in every game.

 

EVERY class has shortcomings. In rated PvP, you cover each other's weaknesses and play to each other's strengths. This is a very simple concept, and for the life of me, can't understand why it eludes so many.

[MidichIorian]

EVERY class has shortcomings. In rated PvP, you cover each other's weaknesses and play to each other's strengths. This is a very simple concept, and for the life of me, can't understand why it eludes so many.

What exactly are the dps merc's and dps sorc's strenghts right now? The only situation in which they are somewhat useful is when they have four team mates infront of them, and even in that situation they're still less useful than other AC'es. Is being able to spam from the back considered a strenght? In short, they're AC'es that require that other players do all the work for them. Edited August 18, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Knockerz]

BW just need to add a timer cd on taunt. If a player is taunt you can't taunt them for about 2-3 minutes after the current taunt wears out. Effectively killing sequential taunt rotations in pvp and forcing teams to use their taunt more strategically than just spamming it when ever it's off cd in a group rotation. Edited August 18, 2012 by Knockerz

[Yeochins]

Others have already had a little chuckle at your misguided response, so I'll save you the embarrassment of another. Posting a reply to tell you why you're utterly wrong won't do any good either, since you won't understand a word anyway.

 

Not sure if you comprehend the simple metagame of trading player locations. Unless you're one of those rated teams who stalemates because the most complex thing you come up with is attacking the point of contention (middle/south/east-west-door).

 

I don't even know what to say to this....

 

By your logic, hybrid operatives are unstoppable in rateds.

 

1v1 viability is 100% irrelevant in rateds, so what you said is basically the exact opposite of reality. Talk about misguided.

 

It is completely relevant when it comes to forcing movement. Perhaps you're one of the very few who have never had to guard an off-point. Or perhaps you're on one of those servers where everyone doesn't understand the simple concept of forcing player movement to an off-objective so you have to face less people at the point of contention. It is clear to me by your statement that all you do is participate in the slugfest with no awareness of what strategy is being used to give you advantages in the slugfest.

 

When you have players who have 1v1 mechanical superiority, they can hold off-points or force enemy movement to off-points more reliably than classes that are not 1v1 mechanically superior. Its a simple concept to grasp but it seems like it is out of the ability of someone who claims to be rated 2300 to understand.

 

There is a reason you prefer powertechs/marauders/tank assassins/Operative Healers. They complement each other at contention points. But the real reason is that these classes have 1v1 mechanical superiority. Meaning the enemy team has to send at least 1 person to respond to an attack on the off-point or always stack 2 at an off-point to avert a devastating node-flip. By stacking a team consisting of entirely these classes it is easier to have players change objectives on death/respawn. It can be done more discreetly than having one of your players run from one objective to another in plain sight.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Yeochins

[Pathlight-]

Not sure if you comprehend the simple metagame of trading player locations. Unless you're one of those rated teams who stalemates because the most complex thing you come up with is attacking the point of contention (middle/south/east-west-door).

 

 

 

It is completely relevant when it comes to forcing movement. Perhaps you're one of the very few who have never had to guard an off-point. Or perhaps you're on one of those servers where everyone doesn't understand the simple concept of forcing player movement to an off-objective so you have to face less people at the point of contention. It is clear to me by your statement that all you do is participate in the slugfest with no awareness of what strategy is being used to give you advantages in the slugfest.

 

When you have players who have 1v1 mechanical superiority, they can hold off-points or force enemy movement to off-points more reliably than classes that are not 1v1 mechanically superior. Its a simple concept to grasp but it seems like it is out of the ability of someone who claims to be rated 2300 to understand.

 

There is a reason you prefer powertechs/marauders/tank assassins/Operative Healers. They complement each other at contention points. But the real reason is that these classes have 1v1 mechanical superiority. Meaning the enemy team has to send at least 1 person to respond to an attack on the off-point or always stack 2 at an off-point to avert a devastating node-flip. By stacking a team consisting of entirely these classes it is easier to have players change objectives on death/respawn. It can be done more discreetly than having one of your players run from one objective to another in plain sight.

 

I wish all classes were equal but this is unfortunately right. All things being equal, a rated team is hurting themselves by taking on some of the deadweight classes. Those who can't see this are either facing bad competition, lying about being in rated/their rating or in denial that their class is subpar.

[UnderatedNoob]

It's amazing how many people think DPS wins the games in Rateds, it simply amuses me to say the least. While DPS plays a key role, a group who knows how to utilize an assist train, switch targets effectively, knows how to rotate, and WHEN to CC, etc will do just fine. It's been done already.

 

Your bold more or less defines DPS. I found that slightly contradictory.

Although, I think it takes a balance of all three major aspects, DPS definately wins games in Rateds.

 

IMO if you have poor DPS, more than likely you are not going to kill a damn thing against a decent team. You won't be able to compesate even with great tanking/guards and great healers. But great DPS could definately make up for poor tanking or poor heals. Obviously the importance of each aspect variesby game type.

 

I mostly agree with your view on this topic Pistols. Especially in the case of DPS Scoundrels... I have to defend them. They are vastly under rated, and a good one can bring a package of skills to the table no other class can.

 

And to the guys who say 1v1 doesn't mean anything in Rateds.... YOU ARE CLUELESS.

 

What exactly are the dps sorc's strenghts right now??

 

Ranged Roots

Ranged 8 sec mez.

Speed transitions.

Knock back / root protection for healers.

Great AoE / cap stops

Off heals

Ranged Innerupts

Friendly Pulls

Capable of some of the best overall damage (burst isnt that great tho)

 

Is being able to spam from the back considered a strenght

I definately wounldn't call it a weakness... Better than spamming from the middle!

 

BW just need to add a timer cd on taunt. If a player is taunt you can't taunt them for about 2-3 minutes after the current taunt wears out. Effectively killing sequential taunt rotations in pvp and forcing teams to use their taunt more strategically than just spamming it when ever it's off cd in a group rotation.

 

I don't understand why DPS classes are allowed to taunt without penalty myself. That's not a bad idea. Although, I think 2-3 minutes is extreme.

 

I'd rather just see when a DPS class uses a taunt, the player he taunts deals 150% damage to him for those 6 seconds. So if you are fast enough and see who the taunt came from... he'll pay for it.

Edited August 18, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[NoTomorrow]

Ready to flame? Here we go;

 

1. Remove taunts from non-tank stances

2. Add internal cooldown to surgical probe TA proc while healing someone < 30%

3. Force shroud no longer removes the tech dots, it only prevents their damage for its duration. Once it ends the active tech dots pull you out of stealth. Same for operative evasion but with force dots.

4. CGC slow can be talented for 30% only slow, incendiary missle has 15s CD, generates 30 heat.

5. Remove any talent that gives universal passive damage reduction from healers like the 4% talent from Medicine OP.

6. Remove any talent that improves healing received.

7. Sneak skill is on a 2min CD.

8. Side speeders are either removed or are slower by 50%

9. Are you ready for this? All ranged classes: snipers, sorcs, commandos get a 8s cd interrupt.

 

This will Certainly destroy the current rwz teams metagame.

Edited August 18, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[foxmob]

Ready to flame? Here we go;

 

1. Remove taunts from non-tank stances.

 

as a general rule, I like this idea. I don't mind tank classes having the ability to guard, but it is something they should pay for. for example, assault van is the highest/quickest burst in the game. they can unload everything from midrange and melee. why on earth should they have the added utility of a guard? if you want to taunt, go into ion cell. yeah. I like that.

 

however, if this change is implemented with the current dps, healing and mitigation levels, the focus fire in a rated is so incredibly hard and front loaded that no healer is going to get off 2 casts before dying, even with a guard.

[NoTomorrow]

as a general rule, I like this idea. I don't mind tank classes having the ability to guard, but it is something they should pay for. for example, assault van is the highest/quickest burst in the game. they can unload everything from midrange and melee. why on earth should they have the added utility of a guard? if you want to taunt, go into ion cell. yeah. I like that.

 

however, if this change is implemented with the current dps, healing and mitigation levels, the focus fire in a rated is so incredibly hard and front loaded that no healer is going to get off 2 casts before dying, even with a guard.

 

I dont see any problems with healers dying as fast as a DPS. Healers have the largest impact in warzones anyway, You have read it already in first reply that killing healers and tanks is very hard in RWZ, ppl are basically forced to focus DPS, and those are chosen that have the abilit to go invis.

[foxmob]

I dont see any problems with healers dying as fast as a DPS. Healers have the largest impact in warzones anyway, You have read it already in first reply that killing healers and tanks is very hard in RWZ, ppl are basically forced to focus DPS, and those are chosen that have the abilit to go invis.

 

in the current state of the game, all you have to do is catch a healer in one long stun (e.g., cryo) and focus fire (3 or more) and he's dead before he comes out of stun. that's the way it is NOW. imagine it without all the extra taunts. catch

[NoTomorrow]

in the current state of the game, all you have to do is catch a healer in one long stun (e.g., cryo) and focus fire (3 or more) and he's dead before he comes out of stun. that's the way it is NOW. imagine it without all the extra taunts. catch

 

If the healer dies in RWZ, its his team mates fail. What stopped the tank from putting guard and aoe taunt? What stopped the mara from jumping into the enemy crowd and using intimidating roar? Give healers the slightest buff, and they will become unkillable healbots.

Edited August 18, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[foxmob]

If the healer dies in RWZ, its his team mates fail. What stopped the tank from putting guard and aoe taunt? What stopped the mara from jumping into the enemy crowd and using intimidating roar? Give healers the slightest buff, and they will become unkillable healbots.

 

slightest buff? I'm not saying give the healers anything. I'm saying without all those extra taunts, there's going to be a hell of a lot more dmg going out, and ppl already drop damn quickly under focus fire. i can stand with a tank guard in reg and laugh at 3 attackers. but in a rated? w/o the rest of my team taunting? no way.

[MidichIorian]

 

Ranged Roots

Ranged 8 sec mez.

Speed transitions.

Knock back / root protection for healers.

Great AoE / cap stops

Off heals

Ranged Innerupts

Friendly Pulls

Capable of some of the best overall damage (burst isnt that great tho).

What you are describing is a 31/31/31 sorc. And the things a dps sorc has arent all that useful. It's better to just place a superior class and have the carrier leap to it instead of some weak sorc with pull. Offheals are slow for a non-specced. Won't have knockback root and ranged roots at the same time. Speed transition for when you have 4 maras chasing you? I just don't see how this is adding much. 8 sec mez is on a long CD unless you spec for it (read:waste points) AOE only useful when you have the node AND you have 5 team mates around you to make sure you're not getting burned down in 3 secs.

Also, I thought it had been established that sorc/sages sustained damage is pretty useless for everything except annoying people.

 

Not saying that a soprc/sage can't play on a ranked team but for a pure dps there are far better options. I think sorcs would be useful if FL and CL were instant but with a CD. It wouldnt break the game.

Edited August 18, 2012 by MidichIorian