Fixing Commando for PvP...your thoughts?

[stendarrs]

If you dig through any PvP posts you'll see that commandos are pretty much considered a wasted class in PvP unless you are a healer. Then you're just "acceptable" because any other healing class of equal skill would be better. Outside of flushing the skill trees and totally starting over, I've been trying to think of a way to get commandos back in line for PvP. Here are my thoughts regarding some changes to be made. I'm not saying all of these need to happen, but perhaps a combination of these could help get dps commandos/mercs a reason to queue instead of reroll:

 

1. Full Auto should be uninterruptable except for knockback/CC. This is a big channeled damage dealer and it always gets interupted with a leap or kick. Why can I master strike through an interupt on my sentinel but not get off a full auto on my commando?

2. Cryo grenade should apply a DOT. How many times do you see someone run right through a cryo grenade with zero effect? Well, I see it alot....The cryo grenade is a big utility item for the commando (sadly) and when the root is negated it really hurts. (I'm not talking about resolve either, yes I know how it works)

3. An interupt....this is really not negotiable as it brings the commando/merc down in both PvP and PvE. Just make it happen.

4. An area stun. I know people will think this is going overboard, but I'm just throwing it out there as an idea to package with other possibilities.

5. A speed boost or armor lockdown ability (kinda like Halo Reach). The lockdown sounds cheesy, but I'm a little stumped on this one. Pretty much all other classes can leap/pull/push/grapple/invis or something to provide added utility/survivability. I think commandos just need something along these lines to compete with other classes.

 

These are just a few ideas that have been bouncing around in my head for awhile. What do you guys think?

 

Also, before someone jumps in with the "it's an L2P issue", please know that I'm more than capable of jumping in a pug and putting up big numbers. I'm talking about higher level PvP where a commando will be shut down and killed in seconds because he's basically a "free kill". There is no argument that the DPS commando is at the bottom of the list when it comes to higher level PvP, and I'm not looking to turn them in to an OP class. I'm simply looking for ways to get them in-line with other classes. Your constructive thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

[oaceen]

full auto and interrupt are all i really agree with.

 

i think full auto should be uninterruptable and immune to pushback with the curtain of fire buff (could even tie the effect to cover fire)

 

 

for my one L2P comment: don't use CC on people with full resolve.

 

 

gunslingers don't have any speed boost either (except as an escape). both classes have range and don't need a closer like some other classes. if anyone needs a speed boosting move, it's dps scoundrels.

 

and commandos have heavy armor to help with survivability (of course, whether or not that's enough is up for debate, but if we get a skill to help us with survivability, the devs would probably take away from our armor rating)

[Chaoskyx]

gunslingers don't have any speed boost either (except as an escape). both classes have range and don't need a closer like some other classes. if anyone needs a speed boosting move, it's dps scoundrels.

 

Now for the list of things Gunslingers DO get that Commandos don't:

AN INTERRUPT

multiple roots

leap/pull/pushback/interrupt immunity

15 second 20% mitigation shield for you and all allies in a 10m radius on a 3 minute CD & Defense Screen. (Reactive Shield is similar, but this lasts 3 seconds longer than RS for a non-healer, and applies the effect to teammates, making it far superior in the end. Gunslingers also receive an extra defensive CD in the form of the underwhelming damage absorption barrier Defense Screen.)

20 second CC immunity on a 1 minute cooldown.

group healing debuff and armor penetration regardless of spec

100% 3 second ranged/melee defense increase on a 1 minute cooldown

powerful instant attack usable on targets at or below 30% health

10 second 30% ranged and tech accuracy increase and 15% armor penetration on a 2 minute cooldown

 

Commandos get:

a cleanse for physical and tech effects

heals that are very ineffective outside of the healing spec

an instant activation once every 2 minutes

a free ability once every 2 minutes

heavy armor

 

(May have forgotten some.)

 

and commandos have heavy armor to help with survivability (of course, whether or not that's enough is up for debate, but if we get a skill to help us with survivability, the devs would probably take away from our armor rating)

 

Please do, a bit more armor rating does next to nothing even when your enemies aren't using attacks that penetrate or completely bypass armor.

Defensive cooldowns far surpass armor in this game.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Chaoskyx

[oaceen]

Now for the list of things Gunslingers DO get that Commandos don't:

 

ok, but none of that was relevant to what i said.

[Delaoron]

Reduce the amount of Resolve Stockstrike build up. I think it's pretty silly that this miniscule Knockback builds as much (400) Resolve like Concussion Charge. Especially if you are forced to use it as an interrupt cause you have nothing else.

 

I'd also like some Auto Crit or a Finisher. It's kinda disappointing when you have bad luck and all your supposedly heavy hitters don't crit. You do like 6k dmg and the next 15s it's only Grav Round + FA on CoF proc.

[germil]

Allow Full auto to be cast on the move.

 

Main "builders" (grav round or charged bolt depending on spec) are still static, so we are still vulnerable to melee, and we are still not as efficient as melee when focus fired because Full Auto stays interruptable (which is fine, it is the trade of of being ranged). But it would allow more kitting possibilities so that 1vs1 does not mean inevitable death for Commando, especially for Gunnery.

 

Static turret is not fun in PVP. People play to have fun.

[Bobbyieboy]

The CC thing yes. AOE stun given the armor we get is to strong. Overall i would just be happy if Hold the Line actually did what it said. "Grants 8 seconds of immunity from all movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%." Now if a stun is not a movement-impairing effect i don't know what it. Make this work as it is noted and i'll be happy. After all it's not like i'm looking for a BS item like 99% of all damage reduced for a given amount of time. Now that would be overpowered. haha

[stendarrs]

 

for my one L2P comment: don't use CC on people with full resolve.

 

 

gunslingers don't have any speed boost either (except as an escape). both classes have range and don't need a closer like some other classes. if anyone needs a speed boosting move, it's dps scoundrels.

 

and commandos have heavy armor to help with survivability (of course, whether or not that's enough is up for debate, but if we get a skill to help us with survivability, the devs would probably take away from our armor rating)

 

I addressed resolve in my post. I'm referring to other classes that have abilities that give them immunity to stuns/roots.

 

See the post regarding gunslingers to see how much utility they carry as opposed to commandos.

 

Heavy armor is overrated in this game as the majority of the damage we're taking ignores armor. As such, I would be fine with giving up armor rating in trade for utility/survivability.

 

Perhaps a better solution would be giving a buff to the commando shield. From what I recall as my time being a medic, I think you can spec a point or two to give immunity to interrupts and reduced pushback. Perhaps this could be a default ability with the shield or at least put this option in the dps trees. I would also not be opposed to stockstrike providing a stun as an option.

 

Any other ideas for changes? It's kinda crazy to think that two AC's from the same character type could find themselves at opposite ends of the spectrum. PT/vanguard blows people up while providing solid utility while commandos/mercs are kiting for their lives and hoping that they can stay alive just long enough to get off one more HIB. Don't get me wrong, commandos can put up good damage under the right circumstances, but it seems more often than not that objective based fights are won with utility rather than a guy with a big gun.

[ArchangelLBC]

The CC thing yes. AOE stun given the armor we get is to strong. Overall i would just be happy if Hold the Line actually did what it said. "Grants 8 seconds of immunity from all movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%." Now if a stun is not a movement-impairing effect i don't know what it. Make this work as it is noted and i'll be happy. After all it's not like i'm looking for a BS item like 99% of all damage reduced for a given amount of time. Now that would be overpowered. haha

 

Commandos don't get Hold the Line. If we did (and if it did what it said it was supposed to do) then that single ability would go a LONG way towards making commando viable in PVP. I don't think it should make us immune to stuns but I would have it make us immune to interupts (and would trade the immunity to movement impairing effects as a trade off).

[DarkSideTOR]

I'd like an on-demand 100% crit chance ability, on like one minute cooldown. I fully agree with FA being uninterruptable, it already hits for crap as assault, it roots us and it's only real use is to proc HIB.

 

A finisher is needed for our class, with our burst it's an accomplishment to get someone under 30% but then all our attacks are usually on CD and the enemy has a chance to heal up, run away, vanish, etc.

 

Reactive shield should have a chance to reflect a portion of damage back, 25% is lackluster when being burst down, but if we're damaging everyone attacking us...

 

Talents to reduce elemental/internal damage. Heavy armor is next to useless when pretty much every class has armor bypassing abilities/talents or elemental/internal damage and we have next to no defensive cooldowns.

 

Finally, an INTERRUPT, please Bioware just admit that you were wrong and give us an interrupt that works like pretty much every class has.

[ArchangelLBC]

I'd like an on-demand 100% crit chance ability, on like one minute cooldown. I fully agree with FA being uninterruptable, it already hits for crap as assault, it roots us and it's only real use is to proc HIB.

 

A finisher is needed for our class, with our burst it's an accomplishment to get someone under 30% but then all our attacks are usually on CD and the enemy has a chance to heal up, run away, vanish, etc.

 

Reactive shield should have a chance to reflect a portion of damage back, 25% is lackluster when being burst down, but if we're damaging everyone attacking us...

 

Talents to reduce elemental/internal damage. Heavy armor is next to useless when pretty much every class has armor bypassing abilities/talents or elemental/internal damage and we have next to no defensive cooldowns.

 

Finally, an INTERRUPT, please Bioware just admit that you were wrong and give us an interrupt that works like pretty much every class has.

 

Every other AC has one. I think we're the only class where the interrupt is AC specific and I think it was an oversight that they've been too embarrassed to acknowledge.

 

I wouldn't say no to an execute ability, but I honestly don't think we need it (and it might make us OP in PVE).

 

I don't think we should get a 100% crit ability either but I WOULD prefer to have Tech Override changed to the same level vanguard ability, Battle Focus (25% more crit chance for 12 seconds). That would be incredible. Barring that I'd like Tech Override adjusted to make all activation times instant for 12 seconds. Tech Override is total crap as an offensive cooldown compared to Battle FOocus

[Bobbyieboy]

Commandos don't get Hold the Line. If we did (and if it did what it said it was supposed to do) then that single ability would go a LONG way towards making commando viable in PVP. I don't think it should make us immune to stuns but I would have it make us immune to interupts (and would trade the immunity to movement impairing effects as a trade off).

 

Yeah my bad a line is not here. "Hold the Line should be a commando ability" been playing my vanguard with a tactics build in pvp so long the running joke of it being my commando is getting to me.

[eclipce]

this is just to get the ball rolling, just throwing some ideas and numbers out there.

 

 

Concussion Charge

- instant

- cooldown: 20 seconds

 

Deals 25% more elemental damage and pushes -all- nearby enemies back away from the area. Targets have their damage and speed reduced by 25% for 3 seconds after being knocked back.

 

Reactive Shield

- instand

- cooldown: 90 seconds

 

Reduces all damage taken by 30% for 5 seconds, in addition when applied it removes all hostile tech/force based effects.

[TheMB]

Here are my ideas for some changes for Commandos:

 

Full Auto = Uninterpretable

Concussive Charge = Should apply root instead of snare.

Tech Override = Lower Cool-down

Pulse Cannon (Idea here) = Short push backs over 3 sec's [Like the one that Commander Tavous has when you fight him at the end of Chapter one] (Only for Gunnery Spec: Swap with Stock Strike knock back)

Reactive Shield = Reflect (some) damage back.

Explosive Round = Lower Ammo cost by 1, increase AoE for multiple hits. Keep damage numbers the same.

 

Thats about all the ideas I have for some improvements.

[Aaoogaa]

Reduce the amount of Resolve Stockstrike build up. I think it's pretty silly that this miniscule Knockback builds as much (400) Resolve like Concussion Charge. Especially if you are forced to use it as an interrupt cause you have nothing else.

 

Stock strike used to have a knockdown. They removed the knockdown but left in the full resolve build. Another in a long list of half done development.

 

if anyone needs a speed boosting move, it's dps scoundrels.

 

They have speed boosts and stealth as a closer. Not to mention a huge amount of uninterruptable burst and escape mechanics. You never see a dps scoundrel running away from a commando...you do see it the other way around though. Heavy armor that stops lightsabers and a huge cannon...vs. a little knife and a rifle, yet we are the ones that have to kite, without the tools to do so.

 

Solution? Make grav round/charged bolts insta cast with a 2 second cooldown..lowered to a 1.5 sec cooldown via talents. Increase GR damage due to insta cast getting no benefit from haste or redesign the talents to buff haste and GR/CB base damage by the same %. Make full Auto immune to interrupt. Make charged barrier absorb a specific amount of damage per stack. We still won't be able to get away but at least we would have a chance when we get to melee.

 

Either provide increased defenses or provide a way to continue to deliver our damage when engaged. Commando damage is sub par on a per second basis and the easiest class to shut down and obliterate due to lack of survivability options.

[Gyronamics]

I'd like a 5m semi-knockback bubble shield that blocks no damage but prevents enemy players from entering the 5m bubble for X time.

 

Melee can use a handful of abilities but can't unload on us with 4m pure melee attacks.

 

Also have a secondary ability as a short range knockback since it would push players out to 5m (good enough to shove someone off the catwalks)

 

And another ability as area denial as enemy players would be unable to pass through the shield, could be used offensively, to assist capping/ bombing/ turret reprogramming, ranged attacks would still go through.

 

Could be used defensively to shield other players from some attacks, again a melee still has some attacks they can use past 4m but not their heavy damage rotation.

 

Perhaps to limit epic trolling by popping such a shield then running down a huttball catwalk and shoving all enemy players off it, it would require the player to root themselves and movement would break the shield.

 

Wouldn't be a deal breaker since of course commandos are ranged classes, still able to fire out of the bubble at anyone, except of course a 35m sniper or sorc but then you shouldn't be using an anti-melee defence vs them.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Gyronamics

[TheMB]

I'd like a 5m semi-knockback bubble shield that blocks no damage but prevents enemy players from entering the 5m bubble for X time.

 

Melee can use a handful of abilities but can't unload on us with 4m pure melee attacks.

 

Also have a secondary ability as a short range knockback since it would push players out to 5m (good enough to shove someone off the catwalks)

 

And another ability as area denial as enemy players would be unable to pass through the shield, could be used offensively, to assist capping/ bombing/ turret reprogramming, ranged attacks would still go through.

 

Could be used defensively to shield other players from some attacks, again a melee still has some attacks they can use past 4m but not their heavy damage rotation.

 

Perhaps to limit epic trolling by popping such a shield then running down a huttball catwalk and shoving all enemy players off it, it would require the player to root themselves and movement would break the shield.

 

Wouldn't be a deal breaker since of course commandos are ranged classes, still able to fire out of the bubble at anyone, except of course a 35m sniper or sorc but then you shouldn't be using an anti-melee defence vs them.

lol GW2 post.

[Count_Midnite]

1. Reduce the CD of Bacta Infusion to 15 seconds.

2. Have a proc on Full Auto that makes either Charged Bolts or Grav Round activate instantly (If your specced in Gunnery)

3. An Ability on a 1 Min CD that makes all abilities uninterruptible for 10 seconds.

 

May seem I favor Commando. Not really. Just want to see them as a viable PVP Class again! They really deserve some love too.

[Trollolololo]

Solution? Make grav round/charged bolts insta cast with a 2 second cooldown..lowered to a 1.5 sec cooldown via talents. Increase GR damage due to insta cast getting no benefit from haste or redesign the talents to buff haste and GR/CB base damage by the same %. Make full Auto immune to interrupt. Make charged barrier absorb a specific amount of damage per stack. We still won't be able to get away but at least we would have a chance when we get to melee.

 

No offense, but I think many of your problems stem from a L2P issue.

 

Make grav round/charged bolts insta cast with a 2 second cooldown..lowered to a 1.5 sec cooldown via talents.

Making Grav Round an insta-cast with a 1.5s CD (via skills) would make commandos blatantly OP in PvP. You could kite most melee dps by using a knock back and spamming Grav Rounds while running away. When they jump to you, you would obviously pop your second knockback and keep kiting them as they died trying to chase you down. It would also drastically change the balance of PvE as commandos suddenly gain a lot more mobility and utility while maintaining their dps output.

 

I play a commando too, but I want the game to be a challenge. I don't want to faceroll my way to victory.

 

Increase GR damage due to insta cast getting no benefit from haste or redesign the talents to buff haste and GR/CB base damage by the same %.

 

L2P ALERT!

 

If you're stacking alacrity (haste is a WoW term, if I am correct) as a commando, you're obviously doing something wrong. Skilled Grav Round (and Charged Bolt) cooldown=1.5s. GCD=1.5s. Increasing cast speed does absolutely no good in PvE and only minimal good in PvP if facing pushback.

 

Commandos will ALWAYS get killed in a straight up 1 v 1. They do godly damage if not being focused, so if they're positioned near a group of healers and ranged dps they will obviously fare better than if they're running around trying to go Rambo. The opposite is true for classes such as the sentinel/marauder and scounder/operative- they win most of their 1 v 1s, especially when they initiate, but can often face issues doing serious damage in a 5 v 5 setting against competent players.

[klham]

Commandos definitely need an interrupt. I'm always wasting my cryo-grenade on sorcs when I get caught in the lightning spam out in the open. Once that's used there's only LoS, but LoS is dependent on positioning, which can be easily messed up via the constant knockbacks & pulls (another area where Gunslingers are advantaged; they're more effective turrets that way). So often you have no choice but to just accept that you're a sitting duck and make a suicide run to fit in some damage before you go down.

 

Also, some sort of check on the constant interrupts would be good too (full auto), and the AC could be given a bit more mobility by making one or two casting abilities usable on the run. I still don't know if that would enable a Commando to hold a point agains a melee AC though, but it would even it out a bit. Sometimes commando feels like a light armor class. Making Advanced Med Probe (the weaker one with the longer cool down) usable while in motion (on self) might be asking too much though.

 

My Gunnery commando does excellent damage in WZs provided I'm left alone, but that rarely happens, unlike my Gunslinger who gets totally ignored by melee ACs very often, even when she's crouched in the middle of a mosh pit. One thing I never hear is commandos calling for more range, which is only really useful in Huttball (my Gunslinger can fire clear across the central pit to the other platform (north-south axis). There's too much LoS in PvP to make range a game-changer for the AC, and mortar volley can hit around the node to interrupt a cap provided you're close enough.

[klham]

As an afterthought, another option to look at is boosting the utility of reactive shield in PvP. It's underwhelming atm, is very short-lived, and has a long cool-down. Could make it a mobile version of Hunker Down (it's halfway there if talented, except for the much longer cooldown) OR give it an AoE damage reduction effect like Scambling Field. Teammates always seem to get some use out of both of those Gunslinger abilities, even the Hunker Down (low-health melee friendlies will always duck behind me and get chased in circles while I wear down their pursuer - it's hilarious!)

[Gyronamics]

lol GW2 post.

 

You'll have to explain yourself.

 

I don't have anything to do with GW2 and have never played it. My suggestion is based on this thing called logic where if a melee is a 4m class, the best defence is to keep them outside 4m.

[FalcoLombardi]

lol GW2 post.

 

I guess actually wanting some interesting abilities makes it a lol GW2 post?

[ArchangelLBC]

Increasing cast speed does absolutely no good in PvE and only minimal good in PvP if facing pushback.

 

While I agree you shouldn't stack alacrity in gear, taking one or a combination of the alacrity talents is highly recommended in both PVE AND PVP for maximizing DPS output.

[Trollolololo]

While I agree you shouldn't stack alacrity in gear, taking one or a combination of the alacrity talents is highly recommended in both PVE AND PVP for maximizing DPS output.

 

GCD=1.5s

Grav Round=1.5s

 

With the option to queue abilities before GCD, I never even waste a fraction of a second casting grav round.

 

My only conceivable uses for the extra alacrity would be for a faster channel in Full Auto, Mortar Barrage, or Pulse Cannon, but only Full Auto makes its way into my PvE rotation. My opinion is that Heavy Trooper is a better talent, especially when PvPing or clearing PvE content where you take a lot of damage.