Cherry-Picked Questions in Q&A, Carefully Worded Answers

[AstralProjection]

When asked about new content coming with the Free to Play option, I noticed the answer was careful to state that we will get new flashpoints, operations, warzones, and space missions. I also see a yellow response stating that you have no info about the super-secret space project up on the dev tracker.

 

What I'd like to know is, are we ever going to see real content that makes this game realize its full potential?

 

if you were hoping TOR would eventually implement fun game systems outside of an item grind over the next two years, the F2P announcement seems to have dashed that hope forever. For years before launch, and over the last 9 months, I've always considered myself a lifetime subscriber to TOR. I can easily afford it, love Star Wars, and love the storytelling in BioWare games.

 

The problem is, the storytelling in this game dies at 50, and there's nothing left but a horrid item grind. For those of us that want something of substance, not just new flashpoints, warzones, operations, and space missions in the same framework we have today that was insufficient for most of your playerbase, what can we expect?

 

My sub is up at the end of the week, and I'm thinking based on this poor communication I'll be doing something I never thought, and taking the 6-month subscription option off.

 

If this galaxy will never be at war, if the planets will always be frozen-slideshows in time with no real life or point to fighting over them, if Space will always be a rail shooter, if player housing and factional achievement will NEVER be on the radar, a portion of your playerbase deserves to know.

 

Can I please get a yellow response someday as to whether or not ANY of these hopes are feasible? Because a new warzone every few months doesn't cut it. The combat in this game is fun, but with nothing else to do in it I've run so many Warzones, Flashpoints, and Ops, that I'm thoroughly sick of it, regardless of the environment and gameplay mode. Where is the player-driven content? Will it ever arrive?

[belizar]

VO costs cash no story updates to xpacs they even said no story updated when they raise the cap now its F2P meh

[Uluain]

F2P is actually more lucrative. But I do know that without new story content - what makes this game what it is - I won't even play for free.

 

I don't care about new Flashpoints, Ops and Warzones. At all.

 

I do care about new story content, particularly content promised from before launch. Yes - I am talking about same-gender romance. Yes, it really is a game-maker or game-breaker for me.

 

What gives?

[belizar]

F2P is actually more lucrative. But I do know that without new story content - what makes this game what it is - I won't even play for free.

 

I don't care about new Flashpoints, Ops and Warzones. At all.

 

I do care about new story content, particularly content promised from before launch. Yes - I am talking about same-gender romance. Yes, it really is a game-maker or game-breaker for me.

 

What gives?

 

you want a solo game then

[Revan-the-knight]

you want a solo game then

 

he wants THIS game, or atleast its content

[Anthonytats]

Something i hate about people saying stuff like "When you get to the end its just a grind"

 

Literally, EVERY MMO is like this with a couple of ones not so much.

The reason you notice more in a game like ToR over WoW is because we are in love with the story so it doesnt feel so much like we are playing for hours on end, doing the same stuff. Then we hit the end and people get annoyed because they realise it is just grinding.

 

I never noticed in WoW so much among others because it was a freaking hard grind from level 1...

 

Also.

Saying that BW said no more Class story content? Where? Please link.

 

And one more thing.

Just because a game goes F2P doesnt mean that they wont include different new mechanisms. Hell, LOTR Online have been bringing out new mechanisms since they started and have a whole new Riding Combat about to be released and i reckon this game will easiely make more money F2P that LOTR.

[Revan-the-knight]

Something i hate about people saying stuff like "When you get to the end its just a grind"

 

Literally, EVERY MMO is like this with a couple of ones not so much.

The reason you notice more in a game like ToR over WoW is because we are in love with the story so it doesnt feel so much like we are playing for hours on end, doing the same stuff. Then we hit the end and people get annoyed because they realise it is just grinding.

 

I never noticed in WoW so much among others because it was a freaking hard grind from level 1...

 

Also.

Saying that BW said no more Class story content? Where? Please link.

 

And one more thing.

Just because a game goes F2P doesnt mean that they wont include different new mechanisms. Hell, LOTR Online have been bringing out new mechanisms since they started and have a whole new Riding Combat about to be released and i reckon this game will easiely make more money F2P that LOTR.

 

they NEVER said, no more class content, they only said that they may have to delay it to next year

[Uluain]

you want a solo game then

 

Let me try to explain.

 

Ops, Warzones and Flashpoints are, by their nature, content you play again and again. It's repetitive. That's expected. We have lots, they're in, people are playing them.

 

Story you get once, 1-50, for each class and that's it. The only way to re-play it is to re-roll your character from Level 1.

 

There is story content for existing levels and existing classes and companions that was to have been included at launch that was not. The Community Team won't even tell us whether they have asked the Development Team about it.

 

Let's just say that does not look good.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Uluain

[Anthonytats]

they NEVER said, no more class content, they only said that they may have to delay it to next year

 

Thats what i thought, hence why i asked the guy who said "BW Said no more Class Content since its going F2P"

 

I hate people that just pull stuff outta their arse.

[Kubernetic]

When asked about new content coming with the Free to Play option, I noticed the answer was careful to state that we will get new flashpoints, operations, warzones, and space missions. I also see a yellow response stating that you have no info about the super-secret space project up on the dev tracker.

 

What I'd like to know is, are we ever going to see real content that makes this game realize its full potential?

 

if you were hoping TOR would eventually implement fun game systems outside of an item grind over the next two years, the F2P announcement seems to have dashed that hope forever. For years before launch, and over the last 9 months, I've always considered myself a lifetime subscriber to TOR. I can easily afford it, love Star Wars, and love the storytelling in BioWare games.

 

The problem is, the storytelling in this game dies at 50, and there's nothing left but a horrid item grind. For those of us that want something of substance, not just new flashpoints, warzones, operations, and space missions in the same framework we have today that was insufficient for most of your playerbase, what can we expect?

 

My sub is up at the end of the week, and I'm thinking based on this poor communication I'll be doing something I never thought, and taking the 6-month subscription option off.

 

If this galaxy will never be at war, if the planets will always be frozen-slideshows in time with no real life or point to fighting over them, if Space will always be a rail shooter, if player housing and factional achievement will NEVER be on the radar, a portion of your playerbase deserves to know.

 

Can I please get a yellow response someday as to whether or not ANY of these hopes are feasible? Because a new warzone every few months doesn't cut it. The combat in this game is fun, but with nothing else to do in it I've run so many Warzones, Flashpoints, and Ops, that I'm thoroughly sick of it, regardless of the environment and gameplay mode. Where is the player-driven content? Will it ever arrive?

 

This is why they choose these other questions other than the ones you want answered, because they've already answered your questions.

 

If you're that concerned about your sub, let it lapse and keep tabs on the game and see what's happening. But this incessant need to "justify" your spend on the game every month is ridiculous...

 

They've already spoken about the new content on makeb, and there's no reason to expect that will change. They've mentioned the space projects and the future of space numerous times, most recently in Daniel Erickson's July 24th interview posted over at SWTOR-RP or whatever the site is.

 

But they don't need to keep answering the SAME questions EVERY week, just because some of the players demand STATUS UPDATES every 7 days. This is a ridiculous expectation, and you all need to take a breath and relax a bit.

 

If the $15 a month is too expensive, hang on and a cheaper avenue awaits you. If the $15 a month isn't too expensive, see you in game!

 

As to your exact concerns, they've announced F2P going live this fall, and have already said Makeb is coming, with an increase in levels and a continuation of story. Not only that, the comments by the developers like Erickson have confirmed that they are moving into more robust types of story and interaction, in ways they couldn't do earlier because they were learning the methodologies for content creation in the new system they have organized, and are only now breaking free of the "chasing technology" phase and coming into their own. They've mentioned more cinematic action, more puzzle-based rather than pew pew based story, and so forth.

 

Some of the questions, like "are we ever going to get an open sandbox planet", have never been answered. But they have said that they were reworking open world PVP and have a team dedicated to it, that they were working on the space project and have a team dedicated to it, and until they change that, there's no reason to keep insinuating that the plans have died.

 

Lastly, I highly doubt that the developers are ever going to give us a "story bible" that will tell us what will be coming in future years in terms of where the story goes. That isn't how this works. The story already builds up to the war essentially beginning in Chapter 3, and to assume that "we may never be at war" is just backward. What do your senses tell you? What did the story tell you?

 

Now we get to wait and see, like all things of this nature. You'll notice that the developers of the Star Trek movies haven't told us where Episode 2 is going, and haven't told us where Episode 3 is going. They're making the movies, they're busy making the movies, and it's your task to figure out whether you want to pay for them or not. If so, go see it! If not, stay away! But asking in advance, "Tell me what it's all about!" is as pointless as repeatedly asking "Are we there yet?" We'll get there when we get there, and it would be stupid for the studio to reveal its hand to its competitors before it has a chance to do the work, build the content, and release it.

 

IT would be stupid for BioWare to reveal the inner workings of the open world PVP or space project when other games are in development cycles. If the space content they're developing really is as "revolutionary" as Erickson says it is, why broadcast that to the Project Titan team, so they can have a chance to modify their system to compete in advance?

 

We are players, and they are developers. They will always have extra restrictions and obstacles in what they can say, and when. This will not change due to repeated questions. Repeating questions does not change the business environment, or the pressure from competition. Those pressures will always be there, and you eventually will realize this, or keep running into a brick wall and not understanding why.

 

This is not all to the OP per se, but to everyone in general who keeps posting these messages. You need to stop and consider how YOU would play things if YOU were the developer and YOU knew that there were at least 2 or more projects out there waiting to see what you were doing, so they could either better you or beat you to the punch. Maybe then you'll understand why they do the things they do in the ways that they do them.

 

Then again... maybe not...

 

Good luck!

Edited August 13, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Andryah]

But they don't need to keep answering the SAME questions EVERY week, just because some of the players demand STATUS UPDATES every 7 days. This is a ridiculous expectation, and you all need to take a breath and relax a bit.

 

I agree.

 

This behavior is indicative of the entitlement mindset of a sizable number of the MMO community these days. They feel they are entitled to answers to any question that comes to their mind. It's a misplaced expectation.

 

It's a reasonable expectation that you can ask questions of the company and it's staff. You may get an answer. It may be an answer you like. It may be an answer you do not like. It may be no answer at all because they are not yet ready to reveal it. That is real life. All companies in all segments of the marketplace operate the same way. OP, would you be equally demanding of entitlement fulfillment from your smart phone manufacturer on their next generation phone release and expect them to answer you?? No, you would not. Stop using a double standard with MMO companies.

[Nydus]

I imagine the Free-To-Play puts the consumer in the drivers seat regarding new content.

 

BW will focus on delivering what players pay for. If players pay for new flashpoints and missions, that will probably make the case for expanding the class stories.

 

If they spend all their money buying new hats, then less likely.

 

It all depends where these tokens go.

 

- Arcada

Edited August 13, 2012 by Nydus

[AstralProjection]

This is why they choose these other questions other than the ones you want answered, because they've already answered your questions. <SNIP>

 

Well, I haven't been here every month trying to justify my sub, as I thought I conveyed in the OP. I am trying to justify it now, because this game with new warzones, flashpoints, and operations still a pretty dead game to me. I don't want repetitive content. I want original and interesting content. I want to fight for the control of planets against the opposite faction. etc. etc.

 

Lots of things were hinted at early on with this game. Then most of the team was laid off or sacked. I think I'm justified in wanting to know what comes next, and if those plans will EVER happen. I'm not going to play for free, or keep playing this game if this is all it ever is. I've done it all. A new warzone won't get interesting until they double the playable classes. Otherwise, it's all tricks and specs and group makeups that have been done, and it ceases to be interesting. Even the unpredictability of humans in PVP gets dumbed down when you're always meeting in the same few battlegrounds, with the same few win conditions.

 

The combat in this game is fun. But endlessly fighting in the same tiny theaters for new shiny items isn't fun for me. I want those people I kill to mean something - my faction to control a planet, maybe get a small bonus.

 

I want to tear down an enemy base in an open world zone, or defend my own. I want to pool faction resources to construct new ones. These are not new concepts.

 

The only people who think "This is an endgame for MMORPG's" must've only played WoW seriously. They ruined the genre with their theme-park gear treadmill model. Other games have endgames of substance, even much older ones with far less going for them.

 

I want to know if TOR is ever going to work toward its potential, and I think I have the right to ask. I completely understand where you're coming from in your points - but the bottom line is plenty of other developers HAVE conveyed a clear understanding of where they're taking their game. Some much better than others, but to say "this is how these things go" isn't true. Maybe when you're dealing with Bioware/EA...but I had more faith in them than that. I disagree that confirming game improvements outside of the flashpoint/warzone/operation model gives any sort of advantage to the team developing Titan, for instance. All it does is give your loyal customers hope for the future.

 

For all intents and purposes, it looks like the game is being scuttled and the spin team is lying through their teeth to us, and carefully choosing their words, as they have since January, much to my dismay.

Edited August 13, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Andryah]

I want to know if TOR is ever going to work toward its potential, and I think I have the right to ask.

 

Toward it's potential, yeah I think it will. If you asked a developer in a face to face discussion, I bet you would get the same answer (as an honest answer, not spin)

 

Toward your personal opinion of it's potential. No, I don't thinks so. You actually want a different game. You should go find that game that will make you happy.

 

Bioware is under no obligation to custom design this game to your personal tastes and needs.

[Andryah]

For all intents and purposes, it looks like the game is being scuttled and the spin team is lying through their teeth to us, and carefully choosing their words, as they have since January, much to my dismay.

 

Opinion, presented as fact.

 

I disagree with your opinion.

[Blattan]

Thats what i thought, hence why i asked the guy who said "BW Said no more Class Content since its going F2P"

 

I hate people that just pull stuff outta their arse.

 

Speaking of pulling out of their arse... The "guy" said "BW said no more Class Content when they raise the cap."

 

And that was stated. Unfortunately, I can't even begin to remember where. I don't know if it was an interview, or a post, or a video. It may have been brought to my attention that it was posted on Twitter, or elsewhere.

 

I think it was a video interview from GDC2012... But I am not going to go and track it down. Essentially, the developer was asked about more story and said something like "there will be more class story, not so much with Makeb, but we do want to continue class stories."

Edited August 13, 2012 by Blattan

[coerCez]

Well, I haven't been here every month trying to justify my sub, as I thought I conveyed in the OP. I am trying to justify it now, because this game with new warzones, flashpoints, and operations still a pretty dead game to me. I don't want repetitive content. I want original and interesting content. I want to fight for the control of planets against the opposite faction. etc. etc.. <SNIP>

 

I tbelieve the guy you quoted already answered your questions in a logical way that you can't deny, really...

 

Tha only think you are entitled to is to be able to login to the game with your $15/month. Unfortunately, your, mine, or anyone else's $15/month doesn't let us in to the inner circles of Bioware where they talk/discuss about the future strategies of SWTOR...

 

Also, I couldn't help myself, but what you are asking for and what you have been getting since the game went live are two different things. It shouldn't take a genius to realize, whatever it is that they might have promised before go-live, is not something you are going to get based on the live experiences in the game. You are going to, more than likely, get new flashpoints, new warzones, new Ops. I would be very very suprised if they introduce an open world PvP sand box planet, or anything that is remotely revolutionary anytime soon.

[AstralProjection]

Opinion, presented as fact.

 

I disagree with your opinion.

 

Actually, it wasn't presented as fact. I said it looks like.

 

I do want a different game, because this game was promised to be much more than it was.

 

I watched this game from the moment it was announced, and dreamed of it before then. I participated in the closed Beta when everyone was warning them that what they had wasn't enough, and launch needed to be delayed. I was there when they promised guild vs. guild capital ship battles, space expansions, and all sorts of other things that have never made it to the game, or been shown that any plans to work on them still exist.

 

I appreciate your right to disagree, but don't put words in my mouth. I didn't present a thing as fact, yet you're presenting your snarky attitude as righteous correction of my statements.

[AstralProjection]

I tbelieve the guy you quoted already answered your questions in a logical way that you can't deny, really...

 

Tha only think you are entitled to is to be able to login to the game with your $15/month. Unfortunately, your, mine, or anyone else's $15/month doesn't let us in to the inner circles of Bioware where they talk/discuss about the future strategies of SWTOR...

 

Also, I couldn't help myself, but what you are asking for and what you have been getting since the game went live are two different things. It shouldn't take a genius to realize, whatever it is that they might have promised before go-live, is not something you are going to get based on the live experiences in the game. You are going to, more than likely, get new flashpoints, new warzones, new Ops. I would be very very suprised if they introduce an open world PvP sand box planet, or anything that is remotely revolutionary anytime soon.

 

I agree with you, and you're right, he did answer most of that with his response. I'd like the response from a yellow name, or at an acknowledgment that it's being brought up as a question somewhere, at some point.

 

I'm not really waiting anxiously for player responses. Your, or anyone else's ideas are no more factual than mine. The only thing we have to go by are words from the company. Thank you for your response, and for agreeing what what I'm saying I fear - but I would like an honest answer from the company that those warzones, flashpoints, and ops are all we're ever going to get.

[NSStember]

VO costs cash no story updates to xpacs they even said no story updated when they raise the cap now its F2P meh

 

I hope that's not the case. Because if they raise the level cap without a new extended story, what's the point? Just to grind higher level stuff? No thanks, I'll keep to exploring the other stories with my alts.

[uziforyou]

Something i hate about people saying stuff like "When you get to the end its just a grind"

 

Literally, EVERY MMO is like this with a couple of ones not so much.

The reason you notice more in a game like ToR over WoW is because we are in love with the story so it doesnt feel so much like we are playing for hours on end, doing the same stuff. Then we hit the end and people get annoyed because they realise it is just grinding.

 

I never noticed in WoW so much among others because it was a freaking hard grind from level 1...

 

Also.

Saying that BW said no more Class story content? Where? Please link.

 

And one more thing.

Just because a game goes F2P doesnt mean that they wont include different new mechanisms. Hell, LOTR Online have been bringing out new mechanisms since they started and have a whole new Riding Combat about to be released and i reckon this game will easiely make more money F2P that LOTR.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Sadly, those who post threads like the OP never seem to understand any of this so we'll continue to see more of them. Play the game for what it is and not what you 'hoped' it would be or some perceived promise from Bioware about what it would be (I remember Bioware discussing plans for the game. I don't recall them 'promising' anything). If more is added that make it better, great. If not, the only choice is to quit or enjoy it's current form.

[OnlyNameLeft]

...I watched this game from the moment it was announced, and dreamed of it before then. I participated in the closed Beta when everyone was warning them that what they had wasn't enough, and launch needed to be delayed. I was there when they promised guild vs. guild capital ship battles, space expansions, and all sorts of other things that have never made it to the game, or been shown that any plans to work on them still exist...

 

I think we have found the major source of your complaints. Your expectations and desires have merged with your recollections of what the devs "promised" you.

 

Never was it said that guild v guild capitol ship battles were in. They said it was something they had discussed, would have liked to include, and may do so in the future. A promise, or even a confirmation of intent, it was not.

 

Space expansions is rather nebulous. If you mean more missions, yes, those are incoming. If you mean the holy grail of the space gamers; i.e. a re-working of the system to include 3 axis control and free flight, no, it was never even intimated that that was incoming.

 

Again, your desires have now merged with your recollections and thus have created a storm in which nothing is ever going to measure up. I won't tell you to find a game that you prefer, but may I suggest that you take whatever game you play with a grain of salt. Accept it for the fun it gives, realize it - and no game - will ever be perfect, and use it as intended - to have fun and pass some time.

[Gerandar]

Story based game adding in more raids and warzones for content and ignoring the story....

 

Thats ****ed up I tell you what

[AstralProjection]

I think we have found the major source of your complaints. Your expectations and desires have merged with your recollections of what the devs "promised" you.

 

Never was it said that guild v guild capitol ship battles were in. They said it was something they had discussed, would have liked to include, and may do so in the future. A promise, or even a confirmation of intent, it was not.

 

Space expansions is rather nebulous. If you mean more missions, yes, those are incoming. If you mean the holy grail of the space gamers; i.e. a re-working of the system to include 3 axis control and free flight, no, it was never even intimated that that was incoming.

 

Again, your desires have now merged with your recollections and thus have created a storm in which nothing is ever going to measure up. I won't tell you to find a game that you prefer, but may I suggest that you take whatever game you play with a grain of salt. Accept it for the fun it gives, realize it - and no game - will ever be perfect, and use it as intended - to have fun and pass some time.

 

Well, you see, you're the only one that decided nothing will ever measure up to my expectations.

 

There's plenty that would measure up to my expectations. Guild vs. Guild capital ship battles were at first hinted at, and then confirmed they were in the works at the Guild Summit. They were told to be far off in the future, but still in the works. I didn't make it up, we were told that was happening. The super secret space project was also told to definitely be in the works. While a JTL style expansion was never directly promised, the devs made it clear early on they'd love to expand Space combat in a meaningful way beyond that of a rail shooter.

 

Those weren't my desires becoming a promised myth - those were things actually said, that may or may not ever be delivered. Makeb was announced, but from all reports sounds like a level cap increase with a new race, new warzone, new op, and a couple new flashpoints - in other words, more of the same. That's not what I'm concerned with.

 

I'll agree, I had high expectations - and I never expected it to be done the first year. I fully understand how long it takes for large projects to come to fruition in an MMORPG world, I've played them all - but what's lacking, as always, is the communication. Now that the game has gone Free to Play, it's reasonable to assume that those projects may never be completed. That's all it is, an assumption - until they confirm or deny it. That's all I'm asking for. Not for the game I want.

 

By all means, tell me you're not making the game I want, so I can walk away, because I've held out hope for this game longer than most. I just want to know that. Instead I've had people half comprehend what I was saying and come in here telling me I'm asking the devs to do the impossible, I'm asking them to design my own personal game, and I'm asking them to give me more information than anyone can possibly expect.

 

I'm not asking for any of those things. I'm asking for an answer that wasn't skillfully worded to avoid giving any other inkling of what the future may hold. There may be reasons for that, but that's where the "improved communication" we've heard was coming would be a huge help. Other games have managed to tell what they have planned, because they actually have something in the works besides Free to Play.

 

Even before all this, we had more information about what was upcoming from BioWare - until the layoffs started. Now we get nothing, and a few die hard people who are still playing their alts and enjoying the story keep telling everyone they're crazy for asking what could possibly come next.

 

In a game that's constantly in development, communicating what's next is one of the most important roles of the company, and always has been. Guilds plan their strategies and gameplay around it, players get a greater sense of anticipation from it, and old players longing for a reason to come back return for it.

 

If this game had been marketed as WoW in Space I wouldn't care, and I probably wouldn't have played it. I was promised a vibrant storyline and immersive universe, the former of which ends at level 50, and the latter of which is nonexistent. When we brought up that we were playing WoW in Space when we were in Beta, the spin doctors would come out and tell us of all the great plans for the future. I'm asking where they are, because all signs point to us getting a free to play version of WoW in Space for the next 6 months, and not any of the things we were told would be coming. The excitement left the room with the layoffs, was followed by deafening silence. I'm not entitled to those answers, but I'm certainly allowed to ask for them.

Edited August 13, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Anthonytats]

Speaking of pulling out of their arse... The "guy" said "BW said no more Class Content when they raise the cap."

 

And that was stated. Unfortunately, I can't even begin to remember where. I don't know if it was an interview, or a post, or a video. It may have been brought to my attention that it was posted on Twitter, or elsewhere.

 

I think it was a video interview from GDC2012... But I am not going to go and track it down. Essentially, the developer was asked about more story and said something like "there will be more class story, not so much with Makeb, but we do want to continue class stories."

 

Nice way to pull something out of the context he said it in!

Lets look at the quote he said shall we?

 

"VO costs cash no story updates to xpacs they even said no story updated when they raise the cap now its F2P meh"

He quite clearly says No story updates to Xpacs which is an abbreviation for expansions.

He then says "They even said no story updated when they raise the cap".

 

He isnt just saying they wont be adding extra story on the rise of the cap. Which they never said they were doing ANYWAY. They were going to add story content later and raise cap on Makeb. Nothing to do with storyline and i havent seen anything that actually said the Cap raise on Makeb was to do with the story?

 

He is saying that because "VO Costs cash" they wont be doing them anymore.

Which is out of his arse because ive seen a number of posts from Devs/Community team saying that they will be adding more story at a later date.