Is there any permutation of P2W that is "OK"?

[sacrengreus]

Full disclosure: I'm against P2W.

 

That said, I'm curious what everyone's opinions are on the subject of P2W. I know this sparks some strong responses so try to keep it civil.

 

The question is then, "Is there ANY form of P2W that you'd be OK with?" Some sample positions (feel free to deviate if I didn't give your specific reason) would be:

 

1. No. Absolutely no P2W is ok with me and I'd probably quit if that was added to the cash shop.

 

2. As long as the best P2W items were at least 1 tier below the best I could acquire in game, I'd be ok with that.

 

3. As long as the best P2W items were no better than the best items I could acquire in game.

 

4. As long as the best P2W items were no more than 1 tier above the best items I could acquire in game.

 

5. I'd be ok with one of the above examples (#2-#4) as long as it were limited to only PVE gear (or vice versa).

 

6. I'd be ok with one of the above examples (#2-#4) only if my monthly allotment of cartel coins allowed me to purchase the same gear at a reasonable rate (and what would that rate be? 1-2 pieces per month? More?)

 

7. I'm fine with P2W gear being in the game.

 

Ok, talk among yourselves! I know what I think the majority opinion will be, but maybe I'll be surprised.

[Revan-the-knight]

Aslong as i can find something BETTER ingame if i actually put some effort into it, Yes then i would be ok with Paytowin items

[irishtim]

Have to say;

 

1. No. Absolutely no P2W is ok with me and I'd probably quit if that was added to the cash shop

 

I flat out refuse to play any game that people can buy gear that would increase player effectiveness

[Etheric]

#1 for me and as to why, If this game had launched F2P, i could be a little less rigid in my responce. Seeing as how it launched with a sub based model, adding ANY high tier gear to the cash shop is nothing more than a slap in the face to the players of this game who have played the game as intended.

[Blaac]

If any form of P2W is added it will be the last straw for me. If at any point I feel players who pay more gives them any kind of advantage, even if that advantage is just to save them time, I will lose interest in this game.

 

So for me... no there is no version of P2W that is "OK".

Edited August 11, 2012 by Blaac

[Styxx]

1.

 

With one addendum: I am still here, because I still have friends in the shrinking Guild. When they will move on, so will I. And not many like P2W in it; at all.

[kevlarto]

There is allot of opinions about what makes an item pay to win, for me it would be if I was able to buy a weapon out of the store and go around one shoting every one or the armor of all absorbing where I took little to no damage, to me thats pay to win, and from my experience there is no american made f2p mmo that offers such items in thier store at least main stream games.

 

to some folks buying heal pots is pay to win or a rez token, I don't see it because you can still die.

 

I guess it depends on your perseption of pay to win, and there is as many opinions about that as there is players. /shrug

Edited August 11, 2012 by kevlarto

[Drudenfusz]

I prefer no items with stats at all in the cash shop. In more PvE centric MMOs I would not mind to see items that help during the level process, but in SWTOR this could make a difference in warzones, so it better not be in the game.

[Blaac]

There is allot of opinions about what makes an item pay to win, for me it would be if I was able to buy a weapon out of the store and go around one shoting every one or the armor of all absorbing where I took little to no damage, to me thats pay to win, and from my experience there is no american made f2p mmo that offers such items in thier store at least main stream games.

 

to some folks buying heal pots is pay to win or a rez token, I don't see it because you can still die.

 

I guess it depends on your perseption of pay to win, and there is as many opinions about that as there is players. /shrug

 

For me its being able to purchase any item that is either close to or equivelant to end game stats. It would mean players would be able to BUY the end game gear instead of working for it. I could be wrong, but I dont think a large portion of the players consider P2W to be turning on "god mode".

Edited August 11, 2012 by Blaac

[Dyvid]

The question is where do you draw the line? Is an item that grants 10% xp bonus for an hour a game breaker? I think petty trinkets like those are okay but once you start adding stat gear that out performs other player, then you have a problem.

[Brool]

My personal philosophy on p2w and wish more people would adopt it.

 

I dont care. Why? Because other people's gaming does not affect my personal enjoyment nor my guild. I dont care if someone paid their way thru the raid. It's their money, not mine. I dont care that I grinded everything out and someone else paid for it, why because I got my enjoyment out of earning it.

 

You game the way you want, thats why you are playing. To enjoy the game. Just like I game the way I want... To enjoy the game. I enjoy working for my gear, and being rewarded for the time spent. I dont care what others do.

[paul_preib]

Full disclosure: I'm against P2W.

 

That said, I'm curious what everyone's opinions are on the subject of P2W. I know this sparks some strong responses so try to keep it civil.

 

The question is then, "Is there ANY form of P2W that you'd be OK with?" Some sample positions (feel free to deviate if I didn't give your specific reason) would be:

 

1. No. Absolutely no P2W is ok with me and I'd probably quit if that was added to the cash shop.

 

2. As long as the best P2W items were at least 1 tier below the best I could acquire in game, I'd be ok with that.

 

3. As long as the best P2W items were no better than the best items I could acquire in game.

 

4. As long as the best P2W items were no more than 1 tier above the best items I could acquire in game.

 

5. I'd be ok with one of the above examples (#2-#4) as long as it were limited to only PVE gear (or vice versa).

 

6. I'd be ok with one of the above examples (#2-#4) only if my monthly allotment of cartel coins allowed me to purchase the same gear at a reasonable rate (and what would that rate be? 1-2 pieces per month? More?)

 

7. I'm fine with P2W gear being in the game.

 

Ok, talk among yourselves! I know what I think the majority opinion will be, but maybe I'll be surprised.

 

 

There's a separation between P2W and F2P with perks, how much the shop impinges into the "perks" territory (i.e. things like XP boosters as opposed to cosmetic only) can be argued, but once it reaches a juncture where it impacts someone's actual capacity to execute content (be it pvp, raiding, etc.) it becomes entirely unacceptable.

 

LOTRO coined a term "convenience not advantage" and I feel this should be the key to a F2P ecosystem, enough convenience and vanity items to compel people to actually desire to spend money while not having any actual impact on the dynamics of a group environment be it pve or pvp.

 

Sadly one of the biggest factors in my leaving LOTRO was that after doing this very well at the outset, by the last expansion it was creeping far to close to P2W territory such as health pots on a separate cooldown from non-store bought ones, 2 tiers of shop-only stat tomes (the equivalent of datacrons here), etc.

[Blaac]

My personal philosophy on p2w and wish more people would adopt it.

 

I dont care. Why? Because other people's gaming does not affect my personal enjoyment nor my guild. I dont care if someone paid their way thru the raid. It's their money, not mine. I dont care that I grinded everything out and someone else paid for it, why because I got my enjoyment out of earning it.

 

You game the way you want, thats why you are playing. To enjoy the game. Just like I game the way I want... To enjoy the game. I enjoy working for my gear, and being rewarded for the time spent. I dont care what others do.

 

Your position is understandable to a point, but what about when p2w becomes the requirement? When you cant compete with said players because the gear they buy is far outperforming yours? When raids kick you because you don't have the special edition Revan lightsaber with the +50 bonus to all stats? When pvp becomes unbearable because the only way to possibly survive is to pay cash? Are these extreme situations? Yes they are, but they are also commonplace in p2w games.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Blaac

[DarkSaberMaster]

Full disclosure: I'm against P2W.

 

 

1. No. Absolutely no P2W is ok with me and I would quit if that was added to the cash shop.

 

 

Fixed for ya. And that's my answer. "He who grindeth the most credits IRL wins" is stupid. If you're not willing to play the game and put in the time to get the best stuff, why play in the first place?

Edited August 11, 2012 by DarkSaberMaster

[Lt_Latency]

As long as I can afford it P2W is good

[paul_preib]

My personal philosophy on p2w and wish more people would adopt it.

 

I dont care. Why? Because other people's gaming does not affect my personal enjoyment nor my guild. I dont care if someone paid their way thru the raid. It's their money, not mine. I dont care that I grinded everything out and someone else paid for it, why because I got my enjoyment out of earning it.

 

You game the way you want, thats why you are playing. To enjoy the game. Just like I game the way I want... To enjoy the game. I enjoy working for my gear, and being rewarded for the time spent. I dont care what others do.

 

This is well and good in theory, but in practical application those items that Player XYZ are within there right to pay for if they want because it doesn't effect you will begin to have an impact on players that would prefer not to buy items.

 

A perfect example would be consumables. A certain consumable that is store only say, becomes an item of expectation for those looking to do level 50 content. Even if you don't absolutely need the edge it provides, it still creeps into the realm of expectation so as to be able to chew through the content in the most efficient way possible.

 

There's also the question of pvp and how it can impact that environment.

 

So someone's personal desire to spend when others might not does actually contain within it the threat to impact the playing environment/expectations upon those choosing not to buy.

 

 

Another way is the notion that someone should in some fashion "earn" endgame progression items. Imagine the outcry from many people if they made War Hero and Campaign Armor BOE so that it can be purchased via the auction house. This would tick a lot of people off, buying it for cash money instead of credits would cause an equal furor.

[Gokkus]

No. I believe it breeds lazy, incompetent, elitist players. I played a P2W game and it was awful anywhere near the cap.

I cannot claim that it would never work for SWTOR but I find it incredibly hard to see how it could improve the game in any way.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Gokkus