Assassin - Please add gap closer or moving ranged damage.

[Rade_Harkin]

For the love of god give us a gap closer sorry caps

 

We have some. Use them properly.

[Vylentqt]

Please go stealth up in a Flashpoint and tell me how that works out for you. Seems like every other creature in most Flashpoints have an ability that:

 

A. Removes stealth.

B. Instantly aggros you regardless of distance.

 

I had to give up using it at all in Hammer Station because I kept pulling from 30-60m out while stealthed. That's with 3/3 into Obfuscation. It's not a detection thing, it's an actual ability that mobs have to remove stealth from stealth classes.

 

Agreed. I had the same experience. Damn driods.

[Rade_Harkin]

Agreed. I had the same experience. Damn driods.

 

Being delayed by 1-2 seconds is not going to make that big of a difference. Use your Force Speed and go kick their butts.

 

Powertechs and Assassins have Pull abilities anyway so if they aren't using them, ask them to so you can be on target right away.

[PacoX]

Please go stealth up in a Flashpoint and tell me how that works out for you. Seems like every other creature in most Flashpoints have an ability that:

 

A. Removes stealth.

B. Instantly aggros you regardless of distance.

 

I had to give up using it at all in Hammer Station because I kept pulling from 30-60m out while stealthed. That's with 3/3 into Obfuscation. It's not a detection thing, it's an actual ability that mobs have to remove stealth from stealth classes.

 

The only flashpoint it does that in is Hammer Station. The big droids have stealth detection. I don't know if you played WoW in TBC but they like dogs in Hellfire. Also anything with the small droids dancing around them can see you too.

[PunchyDeuce]

But assassins are supposed to be stealthy, agile killers. And we are neither of those, with buggy stealth, which also slows us down, and we can't even sprint faster than our obese, physically unfit sorcerer breathren.

 

That is fairly stupid and should be addressed, and I think the best way to do that is buffing assassin's speed or their sprint.

 

QFT

 

I find I'm not very effective at range and vulnerable up close. Might just be a matter of figuring out some chains, but right now (lvl 20) I cannot figure out where I should be/what I should be doing to be more effective in PvP.

[Kansha]

In reading this thread it seems to me that some people are talking about PvE and others PvP.

 

In regards to PvE game play, I fully agree that the assassin needs a gap closer to make playing with other people enjoyable. Solo'ing, I don't think a gap closer is necessary, as that is what stealth is for, and the assassin class is quite enjoyable. When playing with any other class though, I always find myself last to the battle. If I want to feel like I am contributing, I can go onto the next mob, but then what's the point of playing in a group in the first place. It also really sucks for every boss to say, okay let me get in position first, you guys wait here.

 

Saying use Force Speed seems like a cop-out. It is a power that all of the characters have as far as I can tell, but only the assassin needs to use it as a gap-closer? Correct me if I am wrong, but don't all the other classes have a functional starting range of 30m, including the melee characters when counting their force jump. So at 30m they are already able to launch their attack, or jump into the fray. The assassins functional range is 10m, and the only ranged ability I have found so far that you can use while running is shock. Every time I have tried using Lightning while running it says "Cannot do that while moving" or something to that effect.

 

I don't think that force jump should be added, as that really seems the domain of the warrior classes. That would seem unnatural conceptually.

 

The pull ability, while I haven't used, seems like it would do the trick, if the power would grow so that you could pull multiple enemies or stronger enemies towards you. But like I said I haven't tried it.

 

I have no complaints solo'ing with the assassin, but group play in a PvE environment, just isn't fun.

[Kal_Choedan]

The only flashpoint it does that in is Hammer Station. The big droids have stealth detection. I don't know if you played WoW in TBC but they like dogs in Hellfire. Also anything with the small droids dancing around them can see you too.

 

It also seems that these mobs also detect you from further away if you are stealthed than when you are visible. It's easy to test - find a mob you know has stealth detection, get close to the mob without stealth on - close, but not close enough to aggro it while unstealthed - and finally activate stealth. Mob will immediately aggro and pull you out of stealth. Opposite faction guards are an easy-to-find example.

 

Some droids (those that have the spinny probe droids that appear with them) seem to pulse stealth detection rather than having it on constantly and if you watch them you will see the pulse has a visible effect; with the right timing you can still sneak up to/past these droids. Others behave like the faction guards.

[MadMossy]

I think Assassins do need a force leap/jump ability, but only in the tanking line, all other thanks have multiple distance negating skills (grapple, jet pack jump, force leap etc)

 

Assassin tanks get force pull and we have force sprint on a lower cooldown 20s but its not direct to target like the other abilities are which is what we need as im forever having to run after mobs to close down the gap and in the valuable seconds that takes a healer could be dead.

 

As a tankasin myself I often find myself not able to do anything because something is too far from me, all our abilities are limited to 10m range unless we use a cooldown which is one a 1 1/2 minute cooldown.

 

Considering the idea behind the assassin even the intro movie has someone with a double blade lightsaber jumping around being all acrobatic, i don't feel acrobatic at all as an assassin tank i just stand there zapping mobs in the face with shock and lightning.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MadMossy

[Astarica]

There are some mobs that have universal detection no matter what your stealth level is. You'll notice this when you see a crosshair on you as you approach, and after X seconds you will be in aggro no matter what unless you back out of their awareness radius (party members count). You can see this by going to say Black Talon at level 50, the normal mobs can't detect you visible because you're way higher than they are, including the boss, which is why as you walk to them you'll see the 'alerted' icon appear on them, because otherwise you can just walk behind them while visible without aggro.

 

For PvE, you can simply stealth up to any non boss mobs at the start of the fight. For PvP, closing the gap versus ranged class is a pretty serious concern. I think one easy fix is to make Force Slow and Force Lightning 30m like Sorcerers, that way even if you're far away you can still attack back, and snare them so you can actually close the gap. It's not like you'll become a feared range DPS evenw ith 30m Force Ligthning but it'd be nice to at least be able to shoot back.

[MadMossy]

Tankasins are imho the least mobile of the tank classes, having played a Jedi Guardian during beta (carbon copy of the juggernaut) and having a 50 Bounty Hunter and Assassin on live all specced in the relevant tank line.

[TeddyBearSniper]

I would like a dash attack that looks like a teleport.

[Lowerydro]

Staying on topic with PVE (most people here are reading the title and replying thinking this is about PVP) I would agree. This was an issue in beta and has remained an issue.

 

When it is an assassin tanking and warrior dps'ing it works out great, the assassin goes in using force speed or stealthed and the warrior can instantly join the fight in a few seconds after aggro using leap.

 

When you reverse the situation it gets bad. For an assassin to sit outside aggro and then try to get into the fight they are already behind the warrior that went in instantly and the ranged that are dps'ing instantly. Add to that the problems with PVE knockbacks and you run into the base MMO issues of why a group should take an assassin when a ranged dps can do better and do it easier.

 

One thing that partially resolved this for trash was that assassins all got force pull. You could pull a single trash mob to you and dps it down while the tank worked the rest. Instead of leaving this they took the ability out and decided it was for the tanking tree which makes no sense... you don't want to pull a single mob and let the rest be ignored, you want to be on all of the group when tanking.

 

Honestly what I would like to see is something like a teleport to a targeted mob, even if they decided to make it not work on players to keep pvp balanced. I honestly don't see what the problem would be though, powertechs are getting charge and grapple at the same time but for some reason a charge on an assassin is considered unfair. There is actually already a graphic in game for a teleport as well, Khem and Azhara (sp) both have them when they are summoned or return from crafting.

[matthewsfury]

this is an ability that would fit the assassin well and solve most problems http://www.torhead.com/ability/blj4l8c#classes

i fought assassin based npcs that had this ability and i found it annoying that they could teleport while im stuck running around

[Cliffle]

this is an ability that would fit the assassin well and solve most problems http://www.torhead.com/ability/blj4l8c#classes

i fought assassin based npcs that had this ability and i found it annoying that they could teleport while im stuck running around

 

Seems very fitting. I could definitely see this as a future assassin/shadow ability in some form.

[profpedantic]

I've seen this request on the beta boards and i still must ask...why?

 

I've played my assassin as a tank for 45 of my 46 levels (just recently switched to Madness because of group/role configuration in our guild--too many tanks, imagine that! oh, and it's awesome btw). I've been fine without this magical "gap closer," which we actually have in Force Pull.

 

I don't normally like to do this, but to draw comparison to other MMOs...

 

Let's start with the tank spec and compare it to other tanks.

 

From the monster (aka WoW):

 

Warriors have charge. So do Sith warriors and from here stems all the complaints. Tankasins do not, but....

 

Death Knights have Death Grip, which is frighteningly similar to Force Pull. Sure, they get it a bit earlier compared to the Tankasin, but we do get it.

 

Poor Paladins, no gap closer at all. They do have the awesome Avenger's Shield (aka Captain America Shield throw), but our Discharge, though shorter in range, does the same thing and hits 5 targets instead of 3.

 

I've played all 3 tanks in raiding and 5-man groups and, yes, the Warrior was the most mobile, but i could tank just as well with the DK and the Pally as I could with the warrior. When not playing the warrior, with the Pally (sans gap closer), i would run in before everyone else and either use judgement or Avenger's Shield, which with the Tankasin is much like using Shock or Discharge. And with the DK, Death Grip. Tankasin, obviously, Force Pull.

 

All of this as worked well in both SWTOR and WoW.

 

From Rift:

 

Only the Warrior tank builds had any sort of charge and only the Paladin build. I didn't get to play a lot of tanks in Rift, but I did play one and yes, they had a charge, but...

 

Neither the Rogue tank (which is strikingly like the Tankasin, stealth and all) nor the Cleric tank had a gap closer, unless I missed something at the higher levels. I admit I only got to mid-40ish on any of those tanks in Rift.

 

From the others...

 

EQ2, what's charge? I think the Shadowknight and Paladin had some stupid Joust ability that would teleport you to the target, but it was clunky and messed with your camera. All other tanks had bupkis.

 

AoC, the heavy fighting classes had a charge, but like the EQ2 "charge" it messed with your camera and you found yourself looking away from your target. True, i didn't play AoC much past the first year so these bugs may have been fixed.

 

From any other MMO...not sure, haven't played them as in depth as i have WoW, EQ2, Rift, and now SWTOR.

 

So, all of these tanks, especially the WoW and Rift and even the EQ2 tanks, do fine with or without a gap closer. Why do tankasins need a gap closer? We do just as well as other tanks without one, though we do have Force Pull.

 

For our DPS build, or from what I heard from Deception as I have only played Madness so far, Deception is similar to the "traditional" Rogue class. So, back to comparisons:

 

From WoW:

 

I only played a rogue in 5-mans, but I did get one to 85 and ran several randoms. Had a lot of fun and never thought once about a gap closer. They do have sprint, but Assassins have Force Speed. It was mentioned earlier that labeling Force Speed as our gap closer would be a cop-out, but how? It certainly closes the gap by speeding you up. If not, like with the WoW rogue, stay in stealth and stay a bit ahead of everyone. I've started doing that with Madness and sure there are mobs that detect me, but like all sneaky people, you need to be aware of your surroundings and know who's watching.

 

From Rift:

 

Again, comparing it to the Rift rogue, it's much like the WoW rogue. A few builds had a sprint and one had a Shadowstep-esque ability (WoW rogues had this too). It may be a nifty thing to add to the Deception tree. Probably wouldn't go well with the Madness tree, but all in all, it's not absolutely necessary and doesn't fit in with any sort of Star Wars lore. Now, I've not read all of the expanded uinverse books, but I've read a few and of course I've seen the moves. It's why I'm playing this game, right? In none of those has there been a force-user who teleports through shadows to come up behind their quarry. This happens all over the place in your generic Fantasy genre books, games, movies, comics, etc., but it doesn't have a place in Star Wars, for me anyway. Like I said, a Shadow-step-like ability in the Deception tree may make up for the Force Grip that Tankasins get.

 

From the others... well, haven't played Rogues in other MMOs enough to really compare, but other than a Shadow-something-like ability that moves the rogue instantly to the pincushion in question, I've not seen a warrior-like (WoW warrior and Sith Warrior that is) charge or leap ability.

 

 

 

And now for the TL;DR: why? I've done fine with Force Grip and Force Speed as my gap closer so far. Do all classes have to be a carbon-copy of each other and have a leapy I'm-suddenly-next-to-and-stabbing-you-repeatedly ability?

[jsonnenberg]

i think the problem stems from the fact that none of assassin players really feel like assassins at all. when i think assassin i most def don't think running around chasing someone like that fat kid on the playground in gradeschool:p

assassin's should stalk, not chase. and part of stalking is the ability to close in quickly, which seems to be absent

[Ashrah]

I don't want to just give us force leap...that is kinda the niche of warriors, and I'm fine with that.

 

Tell that to Xalek ..... he force leaps (charge) like the best of us (http://www.torhead.com/ability/3wyu5VF)

Edited January 4, 2012 by Ashrah

[MrSteak]

I'm not going to read this entire topic, just the title.

 

1 - Force Speed

2 - Shock

 

/topic

[MadMossy]

I'm not going to read this entire topic, just the title.

 

1 - Force Speed

2 - Shock

 

/topic

 

 

1 - Longer cooldown than all other "tank" gap reducing skills, reduced to 20s if your darkness specced, but still longer than the rest.

2 - 10m range might as well be in melee.

[Gryn]

IMO BioWare missed THE most fundamental assassin skill. the "teleport behind someone and stab them in the freaking back" skill.

 

wish we had that... would be SWEET!

 

Tell that to Xalek ..... he force leaps (charge) like the best of us (http://www.torhead.com/ability/3wyu5VF)

 

daaaaaaang... he has some COOL skills... i want THOSE skills...

Edited January 4, 2012 by Gryn

[kainsec]

I would up until last night say we are fine however, last night I fought Soa and that battle is blatantly biased against melee dps as well basically any major boss fight in this game. It was so horrible last night with most of our DPS as melee bc we had to keep charging around (force speed cds ftl and I specced the speed cd reduction bc i pvp alot) trying to nail the mind traps but the RDPS only has to move a few inches and can keep their DPS much more consistent. In PvP it's unfair but manageable but for PvE it's a bit pathetic how much easier it is for RDPS to their job.

 

Really we need something that solves the problem only in PvE, maybe a force leap that only works on mobs on a separate cd than force speed.

Edited January 4, 2012 by kainsec

[DarthCnox]

We're absolutely fine.

 

Our range attacks are Shock, electrocute, force lightning, crushing darkness.

 

If you need to keep up, slow them.

 

If you need to catch up, force speed.

 

If they still are > 10m away then overload yourself to extend your lightning to 30m.

 

We have all the tools. Good opponents will be able to evade you for sometime, but that SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

 

Just because you can't be in someone face 100% of the time does not mean that we are lacking some ability. It means that other players will have some way to get away from you. Why is that such a scandal?