Tasburath Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Bioware, Please give Sith Assassins a gap closer or a way to do decent damage on the way into a fight. I am nearly useless on trash pulls in instances as the sith warrior (who force leaps in) and the ranged players have killed all but one mob by the time I arrive to the fight. On long fights it's not a big deal, though the rest of the DPS gets a few seconds headstart on me. I'm not asking for anything major, just something that makes me feel like I am contributing on the easy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonepanda Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) You can stealth in pretty easily, and it behooves you to open from stealth if you're deception. You also have force sprint on a low cd if you are darkness. If you're darkness tanking, they shouldn't be pulling before you get into position. If you're madness, well yea. But...if they're killing all the mobs in the 3 seconds it takes you to get into range... Then you really didn't need to help did you? DPS doesn't matter on anything except boss fights anyway. What actually pisses me off as an assassin is that every turret and droid knocks back melee every 10 seconds. I have no idea why they put this in, because as far as I can tell ranged does just do more damage than melee. And so there isn't any reason to be melee. Take a hint from WoW? +20% Melee damage? This game is severely lacking in any semblence of balance. Edited December 19, 2011 by theonepanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDCowboy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Agreed. No reason why they shouldn't have a force leap also. Do assassins somehow lose the the ability to jump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasburath Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Stealth also needs to be looked at. Twice I pulled last night just by going into stealth while standing behind my group. There is no way a mob should see me in stealth before my groupmates who are closer and visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBaz Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You can easily stealth in as an Assassin to start whacking at trash. Also if you dont want to use one of your class mechanics you can use your two range abilities, discharge and shcok, while you are running in. As far as knockbacks are concerned, if they are casted abilities you can easily interrupt them with Jolt or electrocute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endofwow Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 a gap closer other than our sprint would be crazy op in pvp and the shock and discharge spells have plenty of range to get you dpsing quickly again after knockbacks in pve. when you are partying with a fast warrior, play quicker also. when you kill a set of mobs, you can be stealthed and headed to the next pull in front of everyone closing the gap you are concerned with. i do not agree that we need an additional gap closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmonkitar Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 a gap closer other than our sprint would be crazy op in pvp and the shock and discharge spells have plenty of range to get you dpsing quickly again after knockbacks in pve. when you are partying with a fast warrior, play quicker also. when you kill a set of mobs, you can be stealthed and headed to the next pull in front of everyone closing the gap you are concerned with. i do not agree that we need an additional gap closer i agree but i wouldnt mind having force pull be a universal assassin ability again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbill Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 it doesnt take long playing assassin before you start thinking this will be a problem , i assumed there might be one at max level , worrying there isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonepanda Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I thought force speed was unique. Turns out I was wrong. I think what would help the most is... 1. Make assassin training (or whatever the baseline assassin passive that increases shock dmg and other things is) also increase the duration OR speed of force speed. 2. Make the cooldown on force speed significantly less than it currently is for assassins. 3. Make increased movement speed baseline for assassins. I don't want to just give us force leap...that is kinda the niche of warriors, and I'm fine with that. But assassins are supposed to be stealthy, agile killers. And we are neither of those, with buggy stealth, which also slows us down, and we can't even sprint faster than our obese, physically unfit sorcerer breathren. That is fairly stupid and should be addressed, and I think the best way to do that is buffing assassin's speed or their sprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiloni Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Stealth also needs to be looked at. Twice I pulled last night just by going into stealth while standing behind my group. There is no way a mob should see me in stealth before my groupmates who are closer and visible. Obfuscation talent in the Deception tree increases your stealth level. Also, like stealth in any other MMO, don't stand right in front of them. Try to go around the side and behind them because if you're too close to their face they will have an easier time of seeing you. a gap closer other than our sprint would be crazy op in pvp and the shock and discharge spells have plenty of range to get you dpsing quickly again after knockbacks in pve. when you are partying with a fast warrior, play quicker also. when you kill a set of mobs, you can be stealthed and headed to the next pull in front of everyone closing the gap you are concerned with. i do not agree that we need an additional gap closer Good points - we do have several 10m ranged abilities that people should be using, a few of them instant. Coupled with our fast run speed, getting back in the fight is easy. As for getting into range at the start of the fight: Sprint is useful to get in combat faster, Obfuscation increases our movement by another 15%. Force Speed is only on a 30 second cooldown also, so that can be used a lot. You can also move to the next mob when the one you're on is dying - usually there is a grouping of mobs so just go find your own mob to kill - if the Warrior jumps to one mob, you go run to the other one he hasn't touched. I have had to do this on my Jedi Sage - a lot of my abilities either have a cast time or a travel time, so those Jedi Knights are killing the mobs that I'm trying to cast on, so my dps is almost useless. What I learned to do was just find my own mobs he hadn't gotten to yet, or start pulling trash of my own. I get to dps, stuff goes down faster, everyone wins. If you're worried mobs will come to kill you, chances are the Warrior/JK will Force Leap up to them and help you finish them off, if you need it, before the mob gets to you anyway. Edited December 19, 2011 by Leiloni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katahn Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Force Charge is a very nice ability, but overall I find my Assassin is a much more capable character (or I'm just better suited for it) than my Juggernaut. I tank about as well, and I do (even in the mid-teens) a better job with multiple enemies. All this plus I get stealth and, even limited to 10m, an array of ranged abilities my Juggernaut would die for? I'm quite content with the class as it is, so far anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenVaska Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Force Speed is supposed to be our gap closer, but once again, the assassin falls short of the Juggernaut. Hell... the Marauder can tank better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McoAxe Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I think the gap is pretty bad in PVP myself. I am getting shot to hell from every range dps class while I am mostly stunned/slowed and have a shorter range then anything. I understand we have stealth but it seems the enemy players can see that across the wz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Again, not needed. If you are being seen while stealth your doing it wrong. We get a free "Im gonna survive" every 2 mins in force cloak. A free escape every 30 secs. Stealth so theres no way someone can get the jump on us. And as madness I have death field for 30m destruction. Plus no way Im being kited with force slow + electrocute and instant whirlwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McoAxe Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) There is not a "wrong way of stealthing sorry to burst your bubble on that" If an enemy character sees your stealth at 30m + the stealth itself is wrong. Edited December 19, 2011 by McoAxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiloni Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I think the gap is pretty bad in PVP myself. I am getting shot to hell from every range dps class while I am mostly stunned/slowed and have a shorter range then anything. I understand we have stealth but it seems the enemy players can see that across the wz. Funny, I was having a better time in low level warzones on my Sin than on my dps sage and in previous MMO's I've always been the ranged caster. Sin is a great class if played right while my sage felt very squishy and anyone, whether ranged or melee, I found it hard to get away from and despite all my CC and dps skills, they were able to kill me before I could do much. Whereas my sin was having a fun time getting up in melee range and harassing people. I think Sage dps doesn't bloom until later levels whereas a properly played Deception sin is a lot of fun right from the start. Of course you still need to rely on your teammates as well - sometimes you just get a bad warzone and there's little you can do. :\ Edited December 19, 2011 by Leiloni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaestmannaeyjar Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I think the gap is pretty bad in PVP myself. I am getting shot to hell from every range dps class while I am mostly stunned/slowed and have a shorter range then anything. I understand we have stealth but it seems the enemy players can see that across the wz. As all abilities, stealth is only really useful when you have talents augmenting it, ie the "rogue" spec. All three assassin specs have a different gameplay, you have the tank, the DD assist and the backstabber. About stealth spcifically, you have a vanish, you have blackout, the tools are there. Edited December 19, 2011 by Vaestmannaeyjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KodiakAsh Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Please go stealth up in a Flashpoint and tell me how that works out for you. Seems like every other creature in most Flashpoints have an ability that: A. Removes stealth. B. Instantly aggros you regardless of distance. I had to give up using it at all in Hammer Station because I kept pulling from 30-60m out while stealthed. That's with 3/3 into Obfuscation. It's not a detection thing, it's an actual ability that mobs have to remove stealth from stealth classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfesscythe Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Sith Assassins used to have Force Pull on the Beta, but they moved it from a level 42 ability, to being a level 30 talent in the Assassin's tanking tree. I don't understand it, either. There's 5 ranged and 3 melee sub classes in this game. 2 of which has a gap closer, assassin being the odd one out. Assassins do a ton of damage if you're able to sit behind your target, and because of that, people are going to complain about us being overpowered if they gave us all the gap closer back. Plus, the Pull has a 45 second cooldown. I don't see that as overpowered if all specs had it, it's not something we rely on, but it's useful when we need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Between force pull, force slow, force speed, electrocute, and force cloak, you should never have any issues closing distance. The sin is actually one of the most agile classes in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muanthuun Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am not understanding the need for a gap closer. With Force Speed, electrocute and a host of other abilities, I have yet to find it an issue to close the gap. Pop recklessness and shoot lighting at your almost dead target if need be. Ask a Warrior what they are doing when getting out of an AoE and waiting for it to end. While we have some ranged abilities, they are sitting picking their nose until they can get back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkonnis Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I dont really know what they could do about it to be honest. Perhaps some kind of ranged damage mitigation against targets which are more than 15m away. I spend most of my time in pvp as a tank and i just get blasted all over the place when engaging ranged, the endless knockbacks get real old, real quick.Perhaps our base movement speed could increase for a few seconds after being repelled (asa talent obv) allowing you to get back into the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rade_Harkin Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I have some good ideas about gap closers. - How about a talent that pulls a target to you from 30 meters away.- Give us a talent that improves the Force Slow ability to be more spammable.- Give us 30m ranged abilities with no activation cost so we can still deal significant damage from range- Give us a 150% speed boost on a 30 (or 20) second cooldown That shouldn't be too much to ask, should it? C'mon Bioware help us out here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVenizen Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Lets see... force speed which is a great gap closer that can break movement modifiers and be a 20 second cooldown if u spec into it a force pull for tanks multiple stuns stealth ranged attacks force slow (which gets it's duration increased and cooldown decreased in the deception tree) Force shroud which resists all force and tech attacks by 100% for 5 seconds on a 30 second (45 normally) cooldown if u spec into it. Deflection which will boost ur ranged deflect and melee parry by 50% for a while... yea need more gap closers & ranged defense i mean come on! though i will say that the range nerf for assassins was a little dumb, it could do with a little bump, maybe 15m but honestly u can close the gaps so quick with stealth, stunning, slowing and for tankasin's pulling i'm honestly not seeing an issue with range. get CC'd in pvp? use the CC breaker, get cc'd again? ur resolve will be up for a bit most likely. Although i WILL definitely say there seems to be a glitch in instances with npc's auto detecting stealthed characters. Edited December 20, 2011 by DarthVenizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neonara Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 For the love of god give us a gap closer sorry caps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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