One thing I don't understand about the F2P gripe.

[Flaniganican]

I get that people are frustrated with this announcement, but there is one thing that I haven't noticed a whole lot of people who are griping about it mention. Yes, it will be free to play up to level 50. However, when they launch this new model, that's when they are increasing the level cap to 55. They might increase the level cap sooner than that, maybe later. The point is, how is this model any different than the current one that's free to play up to level 15? Or that other game's model that is F2P up to level 20, or whatever it is. You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

I know what most are thinking, and that is, "well what about the cash shop?". There is no confirmation that they will have pay to win items in the cash shop. If they do, then that will most likely be the tipping point for me because personally, I'd rather play a game where you have to earn your items in the game rather than buying them. Vanity and fluff items I have no problem with. Regardless, until pay to win items are in the shop, easy on the qq'ing.

[pudim]

The difference is that you can play every class story without paying!

and then move to another game =D

[Xairon]

This could have easily been put in another thread rather than your own unique post but I'll indulge you til it's locked.

 

People are paying for:

• WZs
  
• Raids
  
• FPoints
  
• Planets
  
• XP Boosts
  
• Vanity Items
  

 

People aren't paying for Armor, Sabers, yadda yadda. That was made (relatively) clear by BWare.

 

And yeah, You'll probably be even more limited in End Game when they roll out makeb, but that's a ways off in the future they need to make sure they've baited in the fishies before they reel them in for cash.

[DarthTHC]

I get that people are frustrated with this announcement, but there is one thing that I haven't noticed a whole lot of people who are griping about it mention. Yes, it will be free to play up to level 50. However, when they launch this new model, that's when they are increasing the level cap to 55. They might increase the level cap sooner than that, maybe later. (1)The point is, how is this model any different than the current one that's free to play up to level 15? Or that other game's model that is F2P up to level 20, or whatever it is. You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

I know what most are thinking, and that is, "well what about the cash shop?". (2) There is no confirmation that they will have pay to win items in the cash shop. If they do, then that will most likely be the tipping point for me because personally, I'd rather play a game where you have to earn your items in the game rather than buying them. Vanity and fluff items I have no problem with. (3) Regardless, until pay to win items are in the shop, easy on the qq'ing.

 

1) They used numbers but the F2P will almost certainly be through whatever the max level is at the time. This isn't a free trial, like the one in Rift or the one currently in SWTOR. It's far greater in scope than those.

 

2) This is EA, not BioWare. Do some reading. Understand who EA is and how they do business. To imagine that there will not be Pay-to-Win items in the cash shop within the first couple of months is to create a fantasy less believable than Star Trek, Harry Potter, and Twilight (come on, sparkly vampires?) combined.

 

3) There are problems with the F2P model that, even in the imagined absence of pay-to-win, are bad for the game. Here are two:

• The community will become far, far worse as every immature little brat child who can't eke $60 + $15 a month out of mommy's purse comes in to play. And they will be able to chat (but apparently not post on the forums, yet). For those who thought X-LFG would ruin the community, oh, just you wait until November!
  
• Businesses focus on revenue generation, the easier the better, and EA epitomizes this. They will focus on cash shop items to the exclusion of fun new content like operations, war zones, and creating a real space game. The game could quickly and easily morph from something that would like to be an MMO into SIMS: Star Wars.
  

[Flaniganican]

The difference is that you can play every class story without paying!

and then move to another game =D

 

Wouldn't you miss out on the last 5 levels of your story once it goes to 55? Also, my original point was regarding end game content (FPs, OPS and such). You'll still need a sub for that.

[anstalt]

You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

Nowhere does it say this.

 

You might be able to buy the level cap increase, buy the new raid, buy the new flashpoints etc in the store. Thats how F2P works in most games.

[Flaniganican]

1) They used numbers but the F2P will almost certainly be through whatever the max level is at the time. This isn't a free trial, like the one in Rift or the one currently in SWTOR. It's far greater in scope than those.

 

2) This is EA, not BioWare. Do some reading. Understand who EA is and how they do business. To imagine that there will not be Pay-to-Win items in the cash shop within the first couple of months is to create a fantasy less believable than Star Trek, Harry Potter, and Twilight (come on, sparkly vampires?) combined.

 

3) There are problems with the F2P model that, even in the imagined absence of pay-to-win, are bad for the game. Here are two:

• The community will become far, far worse as every immature little brat child who can't eke $60 + $15 a month out of mommy's purse comes in to play. And they will be able to chat (but apparently not post on the forums, yet). For those who thought X-LFG would ruin the community, oh, just you wait until November!
  
• Businesses focus on revenue generation, the easier the better, and EA epitomizes this. They will focus on cash shop items to the exclusion of fun new content like operations, war zones, and creating a real space game. The game could quickly and easily morph from something that would like to be an MMO into SIMS: Star Wars.
  

 

Currently, the F2P model states that it will be for levels 1-50. I understand that things are subject to change but my OP directly involves things that were said, not speculated. The rest of your arguments are pure speculation. I know who EA is and how they do business however my point is, why complain about something that hasn't happened yet as if it did?

[dosadnik]

Wouldn't you miss out on the last 5 levels of your story once it goes to 55? Also, my original point was regarding end game content (FPs, OPS and such). You'll still need a sub for that.

 

No cause the story so far only goes up to level 50. There won't be any new class story content (as far as we know) with the level increase. So as long as F2P players get to experience their class stories it is ok.

[Andryah]

Wouldn't you miss out on the last 5 levels of your story once it goes to 55? Also, my original point was regarding end game content (FPs, OPS and such). You'll still need a sub for that.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Have to wait and see what they announce in the details.

 

Regardless, Freemium (dual access) models for MMOs are well established now, with Turbine probably the most successful. And they appear to be substantially following a Turbine style model. If all you want to do in an MMO is play basic leveling content for casual fun, then free works for you. If however you want to go beyond that, then subscription or a-la-carte shop purchase are required and cost you money.

 

Fact is, people that only want basic content play are never really much of the revenue stream for MMOs anyway. So the dual access model makes sense both for players and for the company. The only real issue is the transient anti-socials that then to jump into free content, so it will be interesting to see how Bioware addresses this.

[DiLune]

Its the difference between a literal interpretation and reading between the lines. Long experience has people reading between the lines on F2P.

 

We will see, but to hitch your wagon to the literal interpretation of what they say at this exact moment is just a little too rosey.

[DarthTHC]

Currently, the F2P model states that it will be for levels 1-50. I understand that things are subject to change but my OP directly involves things that were said, not speculated. The rest of your arguments are pure speculation. I know who EA is and how they do business however my point is, why complain about something that hasn't happened yet as if it did?

 

You can choose to contribute another $30 to the company to make SIMS: Star Wars or you can choose not to.

 

The question is, how angry will you be when you get to November or December and it's P2W and you still haven't seen any new operations or war zones? Will you wish you hadn't spent that $30? *shrug*

 

 

Its the difference between a literal interpretation and reading between the lines. Long experience has people reading between the lines on F2P.

 

We will see, but to hitch your wagon to the literal interpretation of what they say at this exact moment is just a little too rosey.

 

Right-O! BBelieving 100% of what EA has to say about this game is the key to happiness! Just read this post from James Ohlen describing the game's future if you doubt that!

Edited August 8, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Andryah]

You can choose to contribute another $30 to the company to make SIMS: Star Wars or you can choose not to.

 

The question is, how angry will you be when you get to November or December and it's P2W and you still haven't seen any new operations or war zones? Will you wish you hadn't spent that $30? *shrug*

 

hyperbole and opinion, expressed as though it is fact.

 

How about we wait and see, you know... get actual facts.... before making pronouncements?

 

I know.. that would spoil your PvP fun in the forums.

[DarthTHC]

hyperbole and opinion, expressed as though it is fact.

 

How about we wait and see, you know... get actual facts.... before making pronouncements?

 

I know.. that would spoil your PvP fun in the forums.

 

Sure. Go ahead and do that. EA's words are totally trustworthy as proved...

 

Here on the forums by James Ohlen

 

And here in graphical format

[Xairon]

Sure. Go ahead and do that. EA's words are totally trustworthy as proved...

 

Here on the forums by James Ohlen

 

And here in graphical format

 

Right, and their still a company trying to make profit off a very large investment, this game will have more in it, because it has to have more in it.

[DarthTHC]

Right, and their still a company trying to make profit off a very large investment, this game will have more in it, because it has to have more in it.

 

Absolutely.

 

What will it have more of, the operation, flash point, and war zone content they've been promising to deliver more frequently for the past 5 months... or items that players can purchase in the cash shop?

 

Here's some food for thought. Operations, flash points, and war zones are hard. They require a great deal of creativity. They require planning. Design. Coding and scripting. QA. Creating vanity pets is easy. It requires some 3D modeling and animation. Putting a new color on a vanity pet is even easier. It requires changing color pallettes.

 

Yes, the company is still trying to make money on the game. Good on them. Companies should try to make money, unless they're charities or not for profit. However, in their quest for money, is EA going to do the hard stuff that make an MMO worth playing or the easy stuff that sells in the cash shop?

 

If your answer really is, "the hard stuff", then why haven't they lived up to the promises they've made every time they failed to live up to those promises, while cutting the staff required to live up to those promises?

[ripster]

The difference between this game having a free to play trial capped at level 15 and then going to 50 is the same as WoW have a free to play trial at level 20 and then going to 50. Then WoW could just sell expansion for each additional level cap increase, like SWTOR will. But there are plenty of people who could enjoy either game for months or years without getting tired of the solo PvE, which is why the Cash Shop is added.

 

Companies know they can't rely on these 'trials' to get people to pay a sub just for endgame access, most of those people already are subbing and they know they will lose subs from people who only play the story, so guess where they hope the money come from?

 

I think I have the same non-negative view of this change as the OP (I am actually very hopeful for what F2P can do), but I do think it was not the best comparison.

[Holden_Dissent]

The difference is that you can play every class story without paying!

and then move to another game =D

 

That doesn't even make any sense. It doesn't effect anyone's gameplay except for the person playing every class story.

[Xairon]

Absolutely.

 

What will it have more of, the operation, flash point, and war zone content they've been promising to deliver more frequently for the past 5 months... or items that players can purchase in the cash shop?

 

Here's some food for thought. Operations, flash points, and war zones are hard. They require a great deal of creativity. They require planning. Design. Coding and scripting. QA. Creating vanity pets is easy. It requires some 3D modeling and animation. Putting a new color on a vanity pet is even easier. It requires changing color pallettes.

 

Yes, the company is still trying to make money on the game. Good on them. Companies should try to make money, unless they're charities or not for profit. However, in their quest for money, is EA going to do the hard stuff that make an MMO worth playing or the easy stuff that sells in the cash shop?

 

If your answer really is, "the hard stuff", then why haven't they lived up to the promises they've made every time they failed to live up to those promises, while cutting the staff required to live up to those promises?

 

Vanity Pets wont keep sustained, business, that was your argument a few posts up. It may be heavily reliant on Vanity crap, but that's not enough to hold weight, I'd say it'll be a balancing act. @Cutting staff, that comes with the territory of releasing a game that took thousands of members to make transitioning into a game that requires hundreds of devs to maintain (and create new content).

[DarthTHC]

Vanity Pets wont keep sustained, business, that was your argument a few posts up. It may be heavily reliant on Vanity crap, but that's not enough to hold weight, I'd say it'll be a balancing act. @Cutting staff, that comes with the territory of releasing a game that took thousands of members to make transitioning into a game that requires hundreds of devs to maintain (and create new content).

 

Oh, absolutely. Vanity pets won't keep the game afloat financially. What will do it are:

 

• Keys that grant F2P players access into operations, hard mode flash points, and war zones.
  
• Keys to unlock special treasure chests that are random drops in the world, especially if these drop frequently enough that the cartel coin stipend given to subscribers won't cover enough keys to open a month's worth of chests.
  
• Datacrons that increase experience gain rate or credit loot rate, especially if they don't last so long that the cartel coin stipend given to subscribers won't cover a month's worth of them.
  
• Lottery-type lockboxes akin to the 24 planetary commendation boxes that could drop anything from junk to awesome gear, possibly even better than all but the topmost level raid or PvP gear.
  
• Vehicles that travel faster than those currently available and/or are much more resilient than those currently available.
  
• Quick travel passes to key planetary destinations (thus bypassing 3-6 loading screens), especially if they are expensive enough to more than consume subscribers' monthly cartel coin stipend.
  

 

Those things are all still much, much easier to produce than operations, war zones, and flash points and people will absolutely buy those. Even subscribers.

 

The rate at which EA produces operations, flash points, and war zones will only decrease as a result of the F2P model. They already are in the habit of not releasing this content, even while they keep repeating that they'll do it more often and better.

Edited August 8, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Nakazia]

I get that people are frustrated with this announcement, but there is one thing that I haven't noticed a whole lot of people who are griping about it mention. Yes, it will be free to play up to level 50. However, when they launch this new model, that's when they are increasing the level cap to 55. They might increase the level cap sooner than that, maybe later. The point is, how is this model any different than the current one that's free to play up to level 15? Or that other game's model that is F2P up to level 20, or whatever it is. You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

I know what most are thinking, and that is, "well what about the cash shop?". There is no confirmation that they will have pay to win items in the cash shop. If they do, then that will most likely be the tipping point for me because personally, I'd rather play a game where you have to earn your items in the game rather than buying them. Vanity and fluff items I have no problem with. Regardless, until pay to win items are in the shop, easy on the qq'ing.

 

At this point F2P and a cash shop represents a complete shift in the vision for this game. Not one that some can adopt due to their preferences and past experiences.

 

Many have waited for quality content at end game.

 

Many waited for merges off of dead servers.

 

Many watched while they ruined their valor system and then decided to put all that World PvP junk on the back burner.

 

Many waited a full patch for rated warzones after being told the day before 1.2 was slated to hit, it wouldn't be included.

 

Many know that the sharp decline in the Austin staff won't be helping them bring any new content to us any sooner.

 

Many read the views of Bioware around launch and you can tell this isn't what was suppose to happen to this game and it has not delievered in many ways.

 

Many can clearly see how much this project means to EA and where it's heading now.

 

They've put so much effort into retaining old subs and getting new subs that they really haven't given their hard core base anything... the lack of diverse, fun, and engaging content @ 50 specifically is why people haven't stuck around.

 

The people that have supported this game from the get go were never appreciated and somehow Bioware/EA believes that offering them content in the form of a cash shop with a weekly allowance is what subscribers want... it's just insulting. I've teetered with the thought of cancelling my sub over the past few months but this was the tipping point. The bang for your buck isn't there... especially not when you don't trust the judgement or new vision of the people behind the scenes and have already waited long enough to only see basic changes made recently with no real improvements made with-in this game that actually have an effect on how you play it day to day.

[Alavastre]

You can choose to contribute another $30 to the company to make SIMS: Star Wars or you can choose not to.

 

The question is, how angry will you be when you get to November or December and it's P2W and you still haven't seen any new operations or war zones? Will you wish you hadn't spent that $30? *shrug*

 

Kind of jumping to conclusions no? There has been nothing posted any where that would lead me to believe that BW is taking this game P2W. You can't have PVP and be able to buy better gear with cash. People would pay for it, but the rest that wouldn't would just quit. No matter what you think, BW is not that dumb.

[DarthTHC]

Kind of jumping to conclusions no? There has been nothing posted any where that would lead me to believe that BW is taking this game P2W. You can't have PVP and be able to buy better gear with cash. People would pay for it, but the rest that wouldn't would just quit. No matter what you think, BW is not that dumb.

 

P2W covers more than just PvP.

 

Why do they care if a $15/month subscriber quits if he's replaced by a $23/month cash shop buy-to-win guy?

 

This isn't BW any more. It's EA. Might be BW on the box, but it's EA management, direction, decision-making.

[Monoth]

I get that people are frustrated with this announcement, but there is one thing that I haven't noticed a whole lot of people who are griping about it mention. Yes, it will be free to play up to level 50. However, when they launch this new model, that's when they are increasing the level cap to 55. They might increase the level cap sooner than that, maybe later. The point is, how is this model any different than the current one that's free to play up to level 15? Or that other game's model that is F2P up to level 20, or whatever it is. You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

I know what most are thinking, and that is, "well what about the cash shop?". There is no confirmation that they will have pay to win items in the cash shop. If they do, then that will most likely be the tipping point for me because personally, I'd rather play a game where you have to earn your items in the game rather than buying them. Vanity and fluff items I have no problem with. Regardless, until pay to win items are in the shop, easy on the qq'ing.

 

Bottom line is this, before F2P there was no cash shop and all content including "fluff" items were part of the game, now there going to move certain content and fluff items out of the game and into the cash shop where even paying subscribers will have to fork over additional money to buy items that were normally part of the game..... Yes we get an allowance but you damn well know this allowance will be very small compared to what items will cost, this happens in EVERY MMO that goes F2P.....

 

Now if they said all items in the cash shop would also be obtainable through the game like loot drops from Bosses in Operations where F2P members can't play then I would have no issue, but they wont do that because they want to milk there paying subscribers... This is one reason people are pissed...

 

Also just because YOU don't have any issues with cosmetic / vanity items being extra, doesn't mean other people don't... For most players the way you look in the game is important and Bioware wants to exploit that with the cash shop.

 

The other reason people hate F2P is because of the quality of player it brings in, low lives who enjoy starting trouble and trolling in the game because if they get banned it didn't cost them anything.... Not to mention they can just create a new account for free...

[Monoth]

There has been nothing posted any where that would lead me to believe that BW is taking this game P2W. .

 

In a Dev blog he mentions you can buy "Boost's" in the cash shop...... One can easily take that as P2W...

[MasterKayote]

I get that people are frustrated with this announcement, but there is one thing that I haven't noticed a whole lot of people who are griping about it mention. Yes, it will be free to play up to level 50. However, when they launch this new model, that's when they are increasing the level cap to 55. They might increase the level cap sooner than that, maybe later. The point is, how is this model any different than the current one that's free to play up to level 15? Or that other game's model that is F2P up to level 20, or whatever it is. You will still need a sub for the last 5 levels and that's what's going to matter in terms of getting new gear and playing end game content.

 

I know what most are thinking, and that is, "well what about the cash shop?". There is no confirmation that they will have pay to win items in the cash shop. If they do, then that will most likely be the tipping point for me because personally, I'd rather play a game where you have to earn your items in the game rather than buying them. Vanity and fluff items I have no problem with. Regardless, until pay to win items are in the shop, easy on the qq'ing.

 

To me its mostly the cash shop. I like to earn my rewards. If I see something I like, I want to PLAY to get it, not buy it at some store and get it in the mail. And I dont care if its fluff or stats. Thats bs and devalues the item and cheapens the game. If im paying a sub, I want it all, and I want to play for it ... not buy it. Thats what playing the game, namely an rpg, is about. But you can bet your sweet granny that EA of all companies will be putting the best of the best stuff exclusively in the cash shop. Not that it'd matter to me, as any content that goes up as a cash shop exclusive make me feel robbed, like the DLC thats released right around the release of a game (right EA!?!?)

 

Also the content updates are likely to suck. They claim "every month" but not only do I call bs on that after all those layoffs, but also what we DO get will be subpar to what youd expect from a p2p mmo as is seen in other converted f2p games. Thats just the way f2p games are.

 

Only way ill stay is if they guarantee they wont sell anything past non-combat pets and playable content (to f2pers) in the cash shop. XP boost potions are fine too I guess IMO. As well as other game features that sub members already get (ie. char slots, so long as subbed members get the max amount). Not that I ever think thatll happen but those are my terms. Ill need to be satisfied with the content updates as well but thats for a later date.