CorellianWannabe Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Why do I get Dark Side points for romance as a Jedi when the freaking master of the Order does something like that? And given her pedigree it runs in the family-so who is she (and the Order) to look down their nose at me for a romance? Or is casual sex ok as long as you don't actually care about anyone (which makes me wonder why Jedi sacrifice themselves for an ideal-surely they should be emotionless robots who are all about self-preservation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Does she look down at your romance? I though she doesn't know about it. Does she "abandon" her child? I think "abandon" is a pretty strong word for giving it away to be raised by others. She was fighting in a war in this time and was probably relativly young. And even if it's not clear, I think it is more likely that she had a relationsship and not just casual sex. Edited August 8, 2012 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicfear Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 How can she have a child without actually having sex? That's kind of the way procreation works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 How can she have a child without actually having sex? That's kind of the way procreation works... Never said that. But I think that in addition she was "romantically involved" with the father of the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Maybe she did get Dark Side points for some of it, but she's had a long time to do enough deeds to redeem herself and attain Light Side V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Just because the priest in your church does something "questionable" doesn't mean it's now ok for your whole religion to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBetty Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Nobody wishes to question her for fear of coping a force pwn to the face like Malgus lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Satele abandoned her illegitimate child. Why is she my spiritual leader? Because the Jedi Order has a different set or moral ideals to what you have in real-life. To the Jedi, abandoning your child, illegitimate or otherwise, is considered the proper thing to do to avoid forming attachments. Jedi are actually encouraged to have children because Jedi children have a higher chance to be strong in the Force, but they aren't encouraged to care for them personally because, well, attachments. It's a horrible thing Jedi - especially women, who can't choose not to bond with their child during pregnancy no matter how early they give them up - must face because we are naturally predisposed to caring for our children and the Jedi must sacrifice this close bond for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyrious Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Because the Jedi Order has a different set or moral ideals to what you have in real-life. To the Jedi, abandoning your child, illegitimate or otherwise, is considered the proper thing to do to avoid forming attachments. Jedi are actually encouraged to have children because Jedi children have a higher chance to be strong in the Force, but they aren't encouraged to care for them personally because, well, attachments. It's a horrible thing Jedi - especially women, who can't choose not to bond with their child during pregnancy no matter how early they give them up - must face because we are naturally predisposed to caring for our children and the Jedi must sacrifice this close bond for the greater good. They dont need to, Lucas and the EU both have presented the Jedi's unwavering fear of the darkside as the ultimate cause of its downfall in the prequels, whereas as far as i've heard Luke's new order is far, far, far more lax and, human, about the situation. If you detatch yourself too much from the things you fight for, you begin to forget why they are worth fighting for, and that more than anything opens you up to the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolenthar Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Sith uses their fear to gain more power. Jedi are afraid of growing attachment and this fear guide them to a path without attachments. Looks to me both Jedi and Sith are based on fear, just the Jedi are not aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeLegate Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well in game I don't think there is a whole lot of information in regards to Satele's son, the only time I can remember it being brought up was during the romance between my Knight and Kira and her dialog had her thinking that Satele would not exactly be against said romance. In fact there are several instances of Jedi having children, some even being in the order. But I am getting off topic a bit, here is what the Wookieepedia has to say: At an unknown time, she had a son named Theron Shan but she gave up his custody to Ngani Zho in order to comply with the Jedi rules on attachment. Not Force-sensitive, her adult son later served in the Republic Strategic Information Service as a spy during the Cold War. He later paid a visit to her to inform her of Zho's death at the hands of Darth Mekhis, though he didn't reveal his true identity to his own mother. Not a lot of information, but one could surmise that part of the reason she is the spiritual leader is actually because she gave up her child, devoting herself entirely to the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I wouldn't go as far as to say she is a spirtiual leader. She is the grand master of the Order and therefore whether I or you personally agree with everything she says or we do and should show her the courtesy if not respect for her position. Does that mean we have to follow everything she or the Council says? No. We are all responsibile for our own choices and decisions. Just because they say you shouldn't do this or that does not mean you can't. There are some things you will need to decide what is right for you. As far as hiding your relationship that is something I feel is wrong and that is where the problem starts. When you hide something you will have to make excuses and then cover those excuses over and over. This is where you open yourself up to the darkside. Telling the truth negates this problem as you have nothing to hide or cover up. Furthermore in this time period love and romance are not forbidden just restricted. Not going to into a debat about that. Not sure why Jedi knights get darkside points on flirting and romances when Consulars dont'. Only reason I can figure is that Consular do tend to delve into the force a lttle more for their studies so it could be that reason alone. As far as giving up her child that was probably a decision that may have come at a high price for her. We don't know the entire reason. I have and will always disagree with the Order with regard to this policy but that's my personal opinion. I would be a very cold day when I would allow anyone to raise my child whether he/she was jedi or not. But again my personal opinion and am not going to debate the policy of the jedi as I have never understood this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTNT Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 To the Jedi, abandoning your child, illegitimate or otherwise, is considered the proper thing to do to avoid forming attachments. Jedi are actually encouraged to have children because Jedi children have a higher chance to be strong in the Force, but they aren't encouraged to care for them personally because, well, attachments. It's a horrible thing Jedi - especially women, who can't choose not to bond with their child during pregnancy no matter how early they give them up - must face because we are naturally predisposed to caring for our children and the Jedi must sacrifice this close bond for the greater good. On the other hand, Jedi are not allowed to have children to avoid getting powerful Force-sensitive family lines, which could result in a a power imbalance within the Order. Also, through out the history of the Order there have been various changes in the policy regarding children. At moments when the Order was very small and threatened then jedi were encouraged to have chldren, but during times of wealth and prosperity(like say, duirng Episode I) Jedi were forbidden to have children. The Order isn't as rigid as it might seem and policies tend to change over the course of time, in light of the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashu-ri Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Satele didn't ABANDON her child - she was not given a choice. One of the Jedi romances, the companion Jedi does research, and if two Jedi marry, they are basically re-assigned, and never expected to see each other. If a child comes about because of the marriage, then the child is taken by the Jedi Order, to train if they are strong in the force, or to be headed toward a career in the Republic military if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 On the other hand, Jedi are not allowed to have children to avoid getting powerful Force-sensitive family lines, which could result in a a power imbalance within the Order. Again that's why Jedi children are taken away from their parents. The children can contribute to the Order as a whole, without any connection to their parents thereby avoiding forming a "bloodline" or "clan" of Jedi - the opposite of the Pureblood Sith ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Not sure why Jedi knights get darkside points on flirting and romances when Consulars dont'. Only reason I can figure is that Consular do tend to delve into the force a lttle more for their studies so it could be that reason alone. I think the female Jedi Consular explains it in the Iresso romance. If a Jedi is trustworthy and shows good judgement, the council normally tolerates relationships, even if it is technically against the rules. (I think one course of action allows you to say "we have to ask the council". In the next conversation Iresso says he got a call by the council and they said it's okay.) Unfortunate implication: In the Nadia romance, Nadie get's DS points but you don't. Well, I think the Nadia romance should give DS points. As far as I know it is also possible for the Jedi Knight to persue the romance with Kira without DS points, if you don't flirt from the beginning. I don't know if this is possible with the Doc romance, maybe starting something with Doc isn't good judgement. In the Consular story you also meet a Jedi master (Duras Fain) who has a daughter and is clearly attached to her. He says he "rarely bothers with the Jedi rules", so it seems as a master you get a lot more freedom and the rules become more like guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lharrulk Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Satele didn't ABANDON her child - she was not given a choice. One of the Jedi romances, the companion Jedi does research, and if two Jedi marry, they are basically re-assigned, and never expected to see each other. If a child comes about because of the marriage, then the child is taken by the Jedi Order, to train if they are strong in the force, or to be headed toward a career in the Republic military if not. Lord I hate the line "had no choice" Everyone has a choice in all things they do. It may not be the best of choices, but there is always a choice. As for her choices, she could either leave the order, and raise her child, or remain in the order, and give up her child. Or furthermore, she could have made the choice to keep her legs together, and avoid the issue entirely. Bottom line, she had a choice, to say otherwise is foolish at best. Edited August 8, 2012 by Lharrulk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyrious Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Lord I hate the line "had no choice" Everyone has a choice in all things they do. It may not be the best of choices, but there is always a choice. As for her choices, she could either leave the order, and raise her child, or remain int he order, and give up her child. Or furthermore, she could have made the choice to keep her legs together, and avoid the issue entirely. Bottom line, she had a choice, to say otherwise is foolish at best. She could also pull a windu personality trait, and keep her child, stay in the order, and look at the council and say "Deal with it, ***********" and walk away. Edited August 8, 2012 by Zyrious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandorain Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hold up who is her kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hold up who is her kid? Theron Shan, an SIS agent who's basically this era's James Bond (Despite the implanted idea that Cipher Nine is that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeLegate Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Theron Shan, an SIS agent who's basically this era's James Bond (Despite the implanted idea that Cipher Nine is that.) Even has his own Wookipeedia page: Theron Shan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Even has his own Wookipeedia page: Theron Shan I bought the comic where he debuted. He kills a Dark Council member with a seriously underhanded bullsh*t move, and it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreksOrden Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Never said that. But I think that in addition she was "romantically involved" with the father of the child. they have clinics for that. Technically speaking any woman can get her self pregnant without any sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahak Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 What a horrible lady, I bet it was because her son wasn't force sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghistwelve Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 My Jedi Knight avoids all of this by knocking up Kira, then turning the kid over to Lord Scourge to be trained in the ways of the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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