Skoobie Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Skoobie, please stay on topic. This isn't a thread about arguing f2p mechanics. This is a thread about if EA counts on people like my friend. Thanks!! What do you think...is EA counting on people like your friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spuck Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You've ignored the time variable. How often do new packages come out? If those 5 packages are all that is available for 4 months, then the price is the same. Exactly. Do not think of it as $15 vs $50. With the "imaginary" packages that you came up with in your scenario's, played by an average player, all of that content would take months to go through. With the scenario in the original post, think of it as 1 content package for a casual player will take at least a month to do it all, generally speaking. So in that case, the "friend" would have spent $10 for 1 content package to play for a month, whereas subbers paid $15 for one month. Most subbers also sub for more months at a time consecutively. As a F2P online shop content buyer, then you pay $10 for that content and maybe play 2 or 3 months before buying more. It's all a matter of what type of player are you and how much will you play monthly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What games do this? All the F2P games that I've been around, once purchased, it's yours. Anything by Perfect World International. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Races no? Are you joking? They won't just permanently unlock the race for you. They will sell you a pass that lets you make one character of that race. Count on it. Vanity items will be permanent, but they will be effectively free for sub players because they get a cash shop allowance. And exactly how much gameplay are you going to get out of a vanity item as opposed to a warzone? Once you buy a race they will allow you to keep it or they negate there f2p option. and how much you get out of a vanity item its determined by how you play. if your a role player or its social armour they will get alot of gameplay out of it. Edited August 5, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) We aren't talking about the frequency of the updates. We (meaning him and I) are still talking about the money issue. He just doesn't want a sub fee and thinks paying 100 dollars in the cash shop a month is better than paying 15 dollars a month for the game. JUST because there is a sub fee. That is what he JUST said to me right now to type... I am ...losing hope with this guy lol Most packages (just basing this off my limited experience with STO) you purchase once and then you don't have to buy that package again until something new comes out so in essence you are paying for that package once and with a subscription you pay each month. It's very possible that is what he is thinking . Now it would depend on how the packages are set up. If the package is good say for 5 or 6 times then he would have to buy it more often but if the package costs xx amount one time and that character has access to it constantly and that could be what he's is thinking. Unfortunely at the moment we have no idea how this will be set up until it happens. Now if he willing to pay $100.00 a month over the $15.00 a month then ...... Edited August 5, 2012 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Exactly. Do not think of it as $15 vs $50. With the "imaginary" packages that you came up with in your scenario's, played by an average player, all of that content would take months to go through. With the scenario in the original post, think of it as 1 content package for a casual player will take at least a month to do it all, generally speaking. So in that case, the "friend" would have spent $10 for 1 content package to play for a month, whereas subbers paid $15 for one month. Most subbers also sub for more months at a time consecutively. As a F2P online shop content buyer, then you pay $10 for that content and maybe play 2 or 3 months before buying more. It's all a matter of what type of player are you and how much will you play monthly. That is only one side of the coin. The other side is whether BioWare will actually make these things one time purchases, or if they will expire at some point. My money is on expiring, but I'm thinking worst case scenario so I'm not disappointed later. Even another layer is whether the stuff you buy will be account wide, or on a per character basis (*cough*last legacy patch*cough*). Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 I agree that he may be looking also at the "ownership" side of things. I started playing DCUO when it went F2P last year. They had a sub that costs $15 a month. Right after I started playing, they released a new expansion that cost $10. Now, the people paying a sub got access to it for free. However, if you ever quit paying your sub, you lost access to it. So I unsubbed for a month, bought the package and then resubbed the next month. I saved $5 for a month, and when I decided to unsub later, I still had access to that content (I still play from time to time). In the long run, it is usually smarter to go ahead and buy the packages that come out, unsubbing if necessary to do so, rather than risk losing all your access when you unsub. Also, over a year's worth of playing, he would be paying only the content cost, where a sub would cost $180. It does sound like your buddy is a cash store guy, and I bet he prefers ala cart restaurants to buffets for the same reason. But to answer your question, yes, it is exactly these type of people that BW is trying to attract. And I sincerely hope they attract them like moths to a flame! Actually he goes to Old Country Buffet all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Most packages (just basing this off my limited experience with STO) you purchase once and then you don't have to buy that package again until something new comes out so in essence you are paying for that package once and with a subscription you pay each month. It's very possible that is what he is thinking . Now it would depend on how the packages are set up. If the package is good say for 5 or 6 times then he would have to buy it more often but if the package costs xx amount one time and that character has access to it constantly and that could be what he's is thinking. Unfortunely at the moment we have no idea how this will be set up until it happens. We aren't on the issue of the packages anymore. lol he doesn't want to talk about it. Now we are on the issue of the money (which he wants to save). He still thinks him paying 200 dollars or more in a cash shop (yes he does that) for things he wants is better than paying 15 dollars a month to get that same stuff and then some. He is one where he believes people when they say "free". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Exactly. Do not think of it as $15 vs $50. With the "imaginary" packages that you came up with in your scenario's, played by an average player, all of that content would take months to go through. With the scenario in the original post, think of it as 1 content package for a casual player will take at least a month to do it all, generally speaking. So in that case, the "friend" would have spent $10 for 1 content package to play for a month, whereas subbers paid $15 for one month. Most subbers also sub for more months at a time consecutively. As a F2P online shop content buyer, then you pay $10 for that content and maybe play 2 or 3 months before buying more. It's all a matter of what type of player are you and how much will you play monthly. But he's trying to save money...plus it's not just content updates he buys for other games in cash shops. It's pets, fluff, vehicles, mounts, games, stuff like that. That stuff adds up! A lot! He's a cash shop sucker. What can I say? The minute someone says "free". He's there. No matter if he pays 400 bucks in the long run while other's who pay a monthy pay 42 bucks in that game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We aren't on the issue of the packages anymore. lol he doesn't want to talk about it. Now we are on the issue of the money (which he wants to save). He still thinks him paying 200 dollars or more in a cash shop (yes he does that) for things he wants is better than paying 15 dollars a month to get that same stuff and then some. He is one where he believes people when they say "free". Then explain this to him (if he will listen) $200.00 x 12 = 2400 $15.00 x 12 = 180.00 And it that doesn't work give up. He's not going to listen lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 On top of the OP's friend.... ....EA is also hoping that subscription players end up doing the same thing, paying more then just their $15 a month. I ended up doing that a bit myself in LotRO. even with a sub, I found that I had lost my taste for grinding endless materials for my crafting (the rare mats mostly...they were a pain to get at the time, especially for certain gear levels). so being able to purchase them in the game store saved me a ton of boring grind time. but i found myself spending a bit more then my monthly "VIP allowance". easy to do if it's there...and beckoning you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias_Varr Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 It's rent vs own. Under the subscription model, you are just renting the game. You stop paying, and you lose access. But buying content from the store, one is buying to own. It doesn't mater how much it is, you now own it, and it can't be taken away. I am very avid against Free to Play, and no sarcasm intended here what-so-ever, but that is honestly the best argument for F2P that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashley Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I understand what your friend is saying. Lets say you both play for a year and their are 5 expansions like you proposed.For your subscription you will pay $180 for a year. He will only have to pay $50 bucks for a year @ the proposed $10... Granted he may buy some fluff stuff, lets guess around $50 worth of fluff stuff from the store... He still only pays $100 bucks to play for a year while you pay $180... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) I am very avid against Free to Play, and no sarcasm intended here what-so-ever, but that is honestly the best argument for F2P that I've ever seen. The problem is that the situation he described is usually not how it plays out. Often the items are not permanent. B2P is the version where what you buy is permanent. Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobie Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) The problem is that the situation he described is usually not how it plays out. Often the items are not permanent. I wouldn't say "usually not". DDO, LOTRO, STO, & CO all have one time purchases for content. But you are correct, in that we don't know how they will have it set up here. Edited August 5, 2012 by Skoobie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) It's a weird thing, the sub vs pay to play. I've had this argument with people more times than I'd like to admit when I was playing DDO. Mostly, I was having this argument with people with subs, because they thought they were entitled to more game than those without because they payed subs. But the truth is, those without subs who pay for the whole game pay about the same amount of money in a long period of time than those with subs. Taking DDO as an example, if you wanted the "whole" game, it would cost you a lot of money upfront to get it as a F2P player; upwards of something like $250. It made much more economical sense to sub up if you wanted the whole game, but were still unsure if you would stick around. The thing is, once you spend that money upfront, your upkeep costs for the game can be cheaper than a sub, so over the long haul, it CAN be a cheaper method. But with DDO, they put out new content fast enough, and new vanity/utility items in the store, that a F2P player who played the game like a subbed player spent about the same amount of money. TLDR; If your friend thinks he's going to save money...well, he could if he doesn't try to get the whole game. But the F2P model is really not about letting people pay less. It's about letting people pay how they want to pay, but ultimately getting the same amount of $$$ out of them. PS As for the permanence of your purchases as a F2P player, if they follow the example of the successful F2P MMOs (like DDO, LOTRO, etc), they will be one-time purchases that don't expire. Edited August 5, 2012 by waterboytkd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnFish Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I laughed out loud numerous times during reading that. Completely on point and correct. Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 What do you think...is EA counting on people like your friend? Yap. That is exactly what I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wouldn't say "usually". DDO, LOTRO, STO, & CO all have one time purchases for content. But you are correct, in that we don't know how they will have it set up here. If we are going to be able to make one time purchases of content, then the game can be considered buy2play, but instead of paying $60 for the whole package like GW2, here we can buy the bits and pieces we are interested in, if you read Jeff Hickman's interview he hints they are going to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 I understand what your friend is saying. Lets say you both play for a year and their are 5 expansions like you proposed.For your subscription you will pay $180 for a year. He will only have to pay $50 bucks for a year @ the proposed $10... Granted he may buy some fluff stuff, lets guess around $50 worth of fluff stuff from the store... He still only pays $100 bucks to play for a year while you pay $180... Ok. Read my posts again. The bottom line here is that he actually thinks in his head paying 200 dollars a month for cash shop items is completely ok with him because that game is FREE and there is NO sub fee required.... That's very very bad for saving money. Plus, he doesn't get the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I ended up doing that a bit myself in LotRO. even with a sub, I found that I had lost my taste for grinding endless materials for my crafting (the rare mats mostly...they were a pain to get at the time, especially for certain gear levels). so being able to purchase them in the game store saved me a ton of boring grind time. but i found myself spending a bit more then my monthly "VIP allowance". easy to do if it's there...and beckoning you.... This big time. That's how as a F2P player, I spent more money a year than I would on a sub. But even if I had a sub, I still would have been spending extra money, because there were convenience/utility items in the store, and the monthly allowance wouldn't have covered all my store purchases. I really like that model actually, because it allows people who don't want to spend cash but have the time (and willingness) to grind out everything to do so, but those with the discretionary cash but lack the time for lots of grinding to use their cash for convenience. Obviously, some stuff stays out of the store, like raid loot. You don't want people to be able to buy everything out of the store, because that will lead faster player burnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papragu Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 No... you missed the fact that you're assuming that it is a one time investment, and not limited duration access. B2P is the model that gives you permanent access to content ala DLC once you've paid for it. F2P usually does not, and depends on repeat purchases for revenue otherwise there would be no reason to have a sub option at all. It is highly likely that ops and warzone access on the cash shop will be on a monthly pass. Well in all f2p mmos i played till now, except of consumables all cash shop items are permanent upgrades to your account. Sure atm we dont know how EA will make things, so all of this discussion is nothing but assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 If we are going to be able to make one time purchases of content, then the game can be considered buy2play, but instead of paying $60 for the whole package like GW2, here we can buy the bits and pieces we are interested in, if you read Jeff Hickman's interview he hints they are going to do something like that. Please keep this on topic. This isn't about what the cash shop is going to have or about one time purchases or not. This is about if EA is counting on dummies like my friend who will glady pay up to 200 dollars in a cash shop or more JUST because they don't want to pay a sub fee of 15 dollars a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaywardOne Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Classic marketing gimmick hits a lot of people. Not too long ago, when a store owner put an ON SALE sign on an item, even if he actually raised the price, more people would buy it. My Mom, a chemistry major graduate from an Ivy League school, still buys things that she wouldn't otherwise buy if there's a deal/sale involved - she occasionally tries to give me her surplus items. Perception is a lot. But I'm sure that there are plenty of kids that don't have credit cards or much access to cash that will benefit from this F2P thing. I may or may not give BW's F2P a shot, it depends on how good GW2 is or MOP is. The F2P thing has me seriously thinking about unsubbing for the first time in 6 mos and I'm getting annoyed with the little things (like all of the CC in pvp) much more than I was a month ago. I do know that, no matter what, as soon as I feel the slightest itch to put any $ (on top of my active subs) into the cash shop I will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Wow. This is a conversation that just happened. I said, "So..say there were 2 content updates that were 10 bucks each. You would pay that already. Then add on top of allll those other things you like to get, skins, pets, mounts, fluff for your character, probably a lot of other stuff because it's a Star Wars game to. So knowing you, you would buy those things. Now...that would probably be more than 40 dollars already if not MORE and you will keep paying that. Now, you said you like to get these things for your character more often and are an altaholic in mmos, you will have to pay to open more character slots. That's probably now more than 50 dollars with tax, maybe more. But if you paid 15 dollars a month you would have access to that ALL without paying anything in the cash shop for it. Don't you see the difference there? 60 plus dollars vs. 15 dollars for unlimited access?" He said, "but it's free....and there is no sub fee..." I just...don't know what to say to him anymore. I gave him every scenario I could possibly come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts