Is EA counting on people like this?

[Gungan]

We aren't talking about the frequency of the updates. We (meaning him and I) are still talking about the money issue. He just doesn't want a sub fee and thinks paying 100 dollars in the cash shop a month is better than paying 15 dollars a month for the game. JUST because there is a sub fee. That is what he JUST said to me right now to type...

 

I am ...losing hope with this guy lol

 

Did you actually say, per month when talking to him? Because the frequency of updates has a direct impact on how much you can potentially spend in a given amount of time regardless of how much you want to spend.

 

If it's per month, your friend is a straight up moron.

 

There is also an advantage here for subscribers, because if for whatever reason they do need to stop subscribing, they can still play with reduced access, as opposed to not playing at all.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Briq]

I would have to say you would unlock ops for a month via cartel otherwise you could just unlock everything once via cartel and then never have subs.

 

logically this makes sense and I would assume the same but ya never know.

[Shingara]

logically this makes sense and I would assume the same but ya never know.

 

I would say that warzones and ranked work the same, races should be unlocked once bought, the extra cash will come from xp boosts and vanity items like mounts and social armour, they dont have to break over $15 or £8.99 a month pre person remember but anything over is win and there are people out there that will play F2P and prob end up spendning way more on vanity stuff then sub payers do right now.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Shingara

[Skoobie]

I think you're assuming that you will be able to buy permanent access to things like zones. More likely it will be packs that contain +5 warzone matches to use when you're able, or a pass that allows you to do an op for one month or something.

 

Also, if you stop subbing, you can still play for free and use all the stuff you bought from the cash shop. Your analogy is completely wrong.

 

First off, I'm going by the example in the OP, I'm not assuming anything.

 

Secondly, if you are subbing, then you are probably not buying the same quests from the store as a F2P. So yes, you could stop subbing and use all the fluff that you already bought...but you wouldn't have access to the quests.

 

It's sounds to me in the OP that his co-worker would rather make a 1 time purchase of content, even if it is more expensive, then to pay monthly just to have access to it.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Skoobie

[Sarfux]

Did you actually say, per month when talking to him? Because the frequency of updates has a direct impact on how much you can potentially spend in a given amount of time regardless of how much you want to spend.

 

If it's per month, your friend is a straight up moron.

 

There is also an advantage here for subscribers, because if for whatever reason they do need to stop subscribing, they can still play with reduced access, as opposed to not playing at all.

 

Gungan. I gave him every scenario, just now cause he is over here. We are still talking about it and he won't realize that paying 100 or even 500 dollars a month for something is more than 15 dollars a month for unlimited access for the game. He won't get that.

 

He said just now "I don't care about time variables at all, I don't care how much anything costs. I just don't want to pay a sub fee and want to play for free."

 

BUT HE WON'T BE PLAYING FOR FREE!! That's what I keep telling him. lol. God is he stubborn!

[papragu]

@ OP you might have missed the fact, that those 50 bucks would be a one time investment and he could play it forever without having to pay for it again. With a Sub you pay every month aslong as you want to play that content.

 

Lets make an example, with a sub you can play everything as the game is now atm and you play for a year, so 15 x 12 = 180 bucks.

 

Your friend, makes a free acc buys all the packs for 50 bucks so he have all the access too and plays for a year. So you would spend a 180 and he only 50 for the same content. So which one is cheaper?

Edited August 5, 2012 by papragu

[Gungan]

@ OP you might have missed the fact, that those 50 bucks would be a one time investment and he could play it forever without having to pay for it again. With a Sub you pay every month aslong as you want to play that content.

 

Lets make an example, with a sub you can play everything as the game is now atm and you play for a year, so 15 x 12 = 180 bucks.

 

Your friend, makes a free acc buys all the packs for 50 bucks so he have all the access too and plays for a year. So you would spend a 180 and he only 50 for the same content. So which one is cheaper?

 

No... you missed the fact that you're assuming that it is a one time investment, and not limited duration access.

 

B2P is the model that gives you permanent access to content ala DLC once you've paid for it.

 

F2P usually does not, and depends on repeat purchases for revenue otherwise there would be no reason to have a sub option at all.

 

It is highly likely that ops and warzone access on the cash shop will be on a monthly pass.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Briq]

@ OP you might have missed the fact, that those 50 bucks would be a one time investment and he could play it forever without having to pay for it again. With a Sub you pay every month aslong as you want to play that content.

 

Lets make an example, with a sub you can play everything as the game is now atm and you play for a year, so 15 x 12 = 180 bucks.

 

Your friend, makes a free acc buys all the packs for 50 bucks so he have all the access too and plays for a year. So you would spend a 180 and he only 50 for the same content. So which one is cheaper?

 

except if you've read the entire thread you'ld see that chances are the cash shop wont be selling permanent account upgrades for things like ops access and pvp access.. it'll be a monthly or bi-monthly access.

[Sarfux]

 

It's sounds to me in the OP that his co-worker would rather make a 1 time purchase of content, even if it is more expensive, then to pay monthly just to have access to it.

But he's trying to SAVE money. Not spend money. He already told me sub fees are a rip off and he wants to play this game for free. I keep telling him if he is going to spend upwards of 100 dollars in the cash shop a MONTH maybe more ITS NOT FREE!! He won't get it! lol :eek:

[Shingara]

except if you've read the entire thread you'ld see that chances are the cash shop wont be selling permanent account upgrades for things like ops access and pvp access.. it'll be a monthly or bi-monthly access.

 

Yup, they have to make money, for sure its going to be a monthly aspect of purchase to unlock ops, warzones and ranked. its going to be atleast 1/3 cheaper then a sub to unlock each which just makes it easier for people to tailor how they play.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Shingara

[Skoobie]

But he's trying to SAVE money. Not spend money. He already told me sub fees are a rip off and he wants to play this game for free. I keep telling him if he is going to spend upwards of 100 dollars in the cash shop a MONTH maybe more ITS NOT FREE!! He won't get it! lol :eek:

 

But he still owns whatever he bought, and has access to it at any time, with out restrictions.

 

Some people are just more comfortable with that.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Skoobie

[Asavar]

....

 

So he's willing to pay for hundreds of dollars worth of packages in one clump, but won't pay a $15 monthly fee?

 

Is he stupid? Seriously?

[Gungan]

But he still owns whatever he bought, and has access to it at any time, with out restrictions.

 

Except he won't because a cash shop in a F2P game depends on having its players buy the same thing repeatedly. Unless EA suddenly becomes hugely empathetic towards its customers, you can be your butt that ops access, flashpoint access (beyond the limit), and warzone access (beyond the limit), will all be passes that expire.

 

You want to make a character with a race you don't normally have access to? You buy a pass to make one character of that race. You want a second character of that race? You pay again.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Briq]

But he still owns whatever he bought, and has access to it at any time, with out restrictions.

 

this is pure speculation, but I'd bet that it's not a permanent access purchase, but a timed key that only last 2-3 months per purchase

[Shingara]

this is pure speculation, but I'd bet that it's not a permanent access purchase, but a timed key that only last 2-3 months per purchase

 

operations etc yes, races and vanity items no.

[Bethmora]

(Wow...seriously? Did he just really say that?! "I don't care how much I SPEND, I just want to play for FREE"

 

Basically his conclusion was that no matter how much he had to pay in the cash shop whether it be 10 or 100 dollars, he would keep playing the game because it didn't require a sub fee and therefore it's "free". End of conversation. That's how he views it )

 

You as a free player will never get everything for free. Even if they broke it down like LoTro and you had to pay to open the map, you wont get all content for free. If they did it that way no one would pay for a sub.

[Gungan]

operations etc yes, races and vanity items no.

 

Races no? Are you joking? They won't just permanently unlock the race for you. They will sell you a pass that lets you make one character of that race. Count on it.

 

Vanity items will be permanent, but they will be effectively free for sub players because they get a cash shop allowance. And exactly how much gameplay are you going to get out of a vanity item as opposed to a warzone?

Edited August 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Skoobie]

Races no? Are you joking? They won't just permanently unlock the race for you. They will sell you a pass that lets you make one character of that race. Count on it.

 

What games do this?

 

All the F2P games that I've been around, once purchased, it's yours.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Skoobie

[Sarfux]

@ OP you might have missed the fact, that those 50 bucks would be a one time investment and he could play it forever without having to pay for it again. With a Sub you pay every month aslong as you want to play that content.

 

Lets make an example, with a sub you can play everything as the game is now atm and you play for a year, so 15 x 12 = 180 bucks.

 

Your friend, makes a free acc buys all the packs for 50 bucks so he have all the access too and plays for a year. So you would spend a 180 and he only 50 for the same content. So which one is cheaper?

 

Ok. That's not what I was saying at all. Listen...I know it's hard to comprehend because it's hard for me that somebody would be THIS BLIND sitting right next to me.

 

He said, "I don't care about how much money I spend in the cash shop, I just want to play for free without a sub fee." That's what he JUST said to me again. So I gave him an example again, "If you could get unlimited car washes, unlimited oil changes, unlimited tune ups for your car for 200 dollars a year, BUT if you didn't pay that fee a year you would have to buy the tires, oil, tune up charges, labor costs, car washes EVERYTIME you went, even if it costs you DOUBLE or TRIPLE of what you would pay a year for unlimited of those, which would you pick?" he said "I don't get what you are saying. I would glady pay for all the maintenance done on MY time, yes. Even if it was 800 dollars every year instead of 200."

 

I can't believe this guy made it through school He JUST said that to me.

 

Yes, he is a HUGE cash shop guy.

[Elyx]

Yup. that is exactly why Bio is doing it....and why f2p is becoming a popular model. I'm not an expert, but im sure there's a transition plateau where the monthly sub is more effective...but I think most games can't reach that mark easily. So for them it's more viable (i.e. more money) to go f2p and pull in those who shy away from a monthly expense. Much of it is psychological. a full years sub is 180$ on average. so if you compared the total amount with what they can purchase in the store (not sure right now, because we don't know) that will tell us for sure. But for allot of people, it really is a process of immediate rewards vs. long term "accountability"

 

I think we all get turned way from monthly expenses due to bad experience. Ever had to turn away that vacuum salesman at the door? ever ended up looking at that 2000$ vacuum and wondering why you bought it? oh yeah, it's only 80$ a month!!! oops.... same with monthly subs. I don't want another monthly headache, but if I find i have an extra 30$ to spend, why not buy a few pretties on the game store? (not what I think but this is the mentality).

 

Plus...no matter how intelligent a person is, spending habits are an emotionally wired in process...that we far too often learn from our parent(s). I've seen freakishly intelligent people that can't handle their accounts to save their lives...and at the same time, I've met Joe Farmer/Jane janitor who didn't pass 3rd grade...but keep tight control of their money (my grandfather did that. didn't get past grade 5, but raised a family of 4 kids and a few properties using nothing more then a 5$ ledger book) intellect =/= good budget skills

 

I think people wire in the idea that if we can avoid the accountability of monthly expenses, were better off. even if it's cheaper in the long run. or perhaps not....

 

I see the f2p as being more viable for those that are sporadic in playing. if you hop on and play for a few weeks every other month (or even only half of each month) it's probably worth it. I do that with LotRO atm, and it's one of the reasons i prefer it's f2p model for that reason. but SWtOR I play usually 4-5x a week at least, so for me the monthly sub is better. to me, it's all about choice. Tera is a good example...I would have tried it if it had a f2p model, but spending 15$ a month for a game im not sure i will enjoy isn't worth it. Especially with an MMO thats new, it takes awhile (and a good bit of leveling ) to see if your really going to enjoy it. Might as well save the 15$ if you can...at least you can sub later on if it fits you.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Elyx

[Sarfux]

What games do this?

 

All the F2P games that I've been around, once purchased, it's yours.

 

Skoobie, please stay on topic. This isn't a thread about arguing f2p mechanics. This is a thread about if EA counts on people like my friend. Thanks!!

[Gungan]

Ok. That's not what I was saying at all. Listen...I know it's hard to comprehend because it's hard for me that somebody would be THIS BLIND sitting right next to me.

 

He said, "I don't care about how much money I spend in the cash shop, I just want to play for free without a sub fee." That's what he JUST said to me again. So I gave him an example again, "If you could get unlimited car washes, unlimited oil changes, unlimited tune ups for your car for 200 dollars a year, BUT if you didn't pay that fee a year you would have to buy the tires, oil, tune up charges, labor costs, car washes EVERYTIME you went, even if it costs you DOUBLE or TRIPLE of what you would pay a year for unlimited of those, which would you pick?" he said "I don't get what you are saying. I would glady pay for all the maintenance done on MY time, yes. Even if it was 800 dollars every year instead of 200."

 

I can't believe this guy made it through school He JUST said that to me.

 

Yes, he is a HUGE cash shop guy.

 

To be fair, your analogy is poor. Most cars don't require $200 a year of maintenance:P

[Skoobie]

On top of the OP's friend....

 

....EA is also hoping that subscription players end up doing the same thing, paying more then just their $15 a month.

[Sarfux]

To be fair, your analogy is poor. Most cars don't require $200 a year of maintenance:P

 

 

ok...listen...

 

no more being negative nancy gungan. It was just a simple analogy to make him understand. But I guess he can't.

 

It was an analogy used to say, "if you pay 200 dollars a year you can go to the car wash everyday, get new tires every week, get a tune up every week, and get full synthetic oil every week if you want because you pay that 200 dollar fee."

 

He said, "i would rather do it on my own time. Yes, I would pay 700 dollars tuning my car up than 200 dollars for all of what you just said JUST because it's a fee."

 

He would be doing it all on his own time anyway if he paid the fee.

 

That's what I meant. That's not "saving" money. That's spending money.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Sarfux

[TheChervil]

I agree that he may be looking also at the "ownership" side of things.

 

I started playing DCUO when it went F2P last year.

They had a sub that costs $15 a month.

Right after I started playing, they released a new expansion that cost $10.

Now, the people paying a sub got access to it for free.

However, if you ever quit paying your sub, you lost access to it.

So I unsubbed for a month, bought the package and then resubbed the next month.

I saved $5 for a month, and when I decided to unsub later, I still had access to that content (I still play from time to time).

 

In the long run, it is usually smarter to go ahead and buy the packages that come out, unsubbing if necessary to do so, rather than risk losing all your access when you unsub.

 

Also, over a year's worth of playing, he would be paying only the content cost, where a sub would cost $180.

 

It does sound like your buddy is a cash store guy, and I bet he prefers ala cart restaurants to buffets for the same reason.

 

But to answer your question, yes, it is exactly these type of people that BW is trying to attract.

And I sincerely hope they attract them like moths to a flame!