How serious is the gear gap?

[Kingkabuki]

It is hard to isolate because recruit level people tend to also be unskilled.

 

However, as an operative healer with about 1/3 augmented WH and the rest BM, I can almost completely ignore 3-4 recruit level geared people beating on me. Interrupts or properly timed stuns might make a difference, but I can generally survive the random stuff they throw at me without even using my stun break.

 

If I don't have cooldowns, a guard or taunt, a single WH geared dps can typically stun me to death from about 50% (and can get me to that 50% point through a well executed opener, a timely interrupt or just a couple of lucky crits in a row).

 

My melee attacks (as a medic) tend to fall in the range of the dps classes you mentioned and I can occasionally 1v1 recruits without even stopping to heal myself.

 

But it isn't just damage dealt. It is health. A recruit is around 13k health. An fully augmented WH is 20k+. Frequently, I can't even get a heal off quickly enough to save a recruit who is being attacked. I can actually use an energy conserving rotation healing a wh geared person and have infinite energy.

 

 

...excuse me, having entry lvl gear means someone is unskilled?...so how did you get full wh for your first set?...

[Holy_Wars]

I just started playing again after a while, but I've got 3 50's.

 

PvP gear gap seems huge to me. I feel like I'm forced to play at a severe disadvantage (to the point of feeling like I cost my team wins due to my gear) until I can get mostly battlemaster or war hero gear.

 

It seems worse for some classes than others. Stealth classes can still be effective at warzones by focusing on objectives rather than kills, and ranged classes can use good positioning and line of sight to stay in the fight, but my juggernaut in recruit gear is virtually worhtless.

 

I can't come close to the damage of those in better gear and my survivability is lackluster no matter the build. I'm usually dead before the first or second stun wears off.

 

I've never noticed it being close to this bad before the big game update(s), not even early in release when 50's warzoned with all level players.

 

It just isn't fun. I often see people quitting or complaining before the match even starts when they see X number of people on our team aren't geared. The gap is too big.

[Leiralei]

If you dont augment your BM gear you are just lazy. Then again we have threads for players who take the cash instead of recruit gear. Credits flow like rain if you acually play this game.

 

Credits fall like rain if you don't fall asleep while doing dailies.

[PloGreen]

...skill?...LOLOLOL...there is no skill in pvp, only better gear...

 

Keep hiding behind that, if it makes you feel better.

[Kingkabuki]

Keep hiding behind that, if it makes you feel better.

 

...ok, so how many arena teams in wow are 2000+ with blue crafted pvp gear?...link them all since there should be a whole bunch...

[LordSkyKnight]

I have to say, just starting lvl 50 pvping with my shadow. I can say the gear gap between a fresh 50 with recruit vs decked out people is brutally bad. I have upper 13k hp and I can be three or 4 shotted pretty dang easily. I pretty much feel like cannon fodder out there and a worthless spot on my team. Like a poster said above, I went through rift playing the pvp gear gating and finally made it to the top and now with swtor it's the same. I don't know if I have it in my again to do it.

 

I don't know why developers keep doing this, it's not fun. Yea once you claw to the top it's not bad but for those of us on the bottom, it's pretty bad. Add in all the stuns and snares, it often feels like you spend more time respawning than actually fighting. Some people will continue to run their necks and call people bads, newbs, whatever, but all it will do is chase people off from the game. People wonder why swtor is going free to play before even the first year is out, pvp was a big part of that.

[PloGreen]

...ok, so how many arena teams in wow are 2000+ with blue crafted pvp gear?...link them all since there should be a whole bunch...

 

It's not just gear that gets people 2k rating in wow.. Jesus.

 

It's comp and cc coordination and player skill/reactions. If all it took was gear to get a high rating then everyone with gear would have a high rating in this game - thee are plenty of geared folk who do not have a good rating in this game. Gear is nothing without skill it just gives u more room for error, not god mode. Against equally geared opponents skill and experience is what matters.

 

It's not just gear and when you eventually geared yourself and are fighting other geared people you will soon find out yourself.

[Kingkabuki]

It's not just gear that gets people 2k rating in wow.. Jesus.

 

It's comp and cc coordination and player skill/reactions. If all it took was gear to get a high rating then everyone with gear would have a high rating in this game - thee are plenty of geared folk who do not have a good rating in this game. Gear is nothing without skill it just gives u more room for error, not god mode. Against equally geared opponents skill and experience is what matters.

 

It's not just gear and when you eventually geared yourself and are fighting other geared people you will soon find out yourself.

 

...I'm still waiting for a team that uses blue crafted gear...

[MOAI]

Recruit vs War Hero is only fun for the War Hero. Apparently some people believe having War Hero gives them the right to face roll Recruit. Yes the gear gap is very large and pretty hard to overcome and not fun for those on the bottom.

[Kingkabuki]

Recruit vs War Hero is only fun for the War Hero. Apparently some people believe having War Hero gives them the right to face roll Recruit. Yes the gear gap is very large and pretty hard to overcome and not fun for those on the bottom.

 

 

...according to those with best in slot pvp gear, it's skill...

[MidichIorian]

I'd say that it's minimal in a pug enviroment.

[Enfaden]

I have to say, just starting lvl 50 pvping with my shadow. I can say the gear gap between a fresh 50 with recruit vs decked out people is brutally bad. I have upper 13k hp and I can be three or 4 shotted pretty dang easily. I pretty much feel like cannon fodder out there and a worthless spot on my team. Like a poster said above, I went through rift playing the pvp gear gating and finally made it to the top and now with swtor it's the same. I don't know if I have it in my again to do it.

 

I don't know why developers keep doing this, it's not fun. Yea once you claw to the top it's not bad but for those of us on the bottom, it's pretty bad. Add in all the stuns and snares, it often feels like you spend more time respawning than actually fighting. Some people will continue to run their necks and call people bads, newbs, whatever, but all it will do is chase people off from the game. People wonder why swtor is going free to play before even the first year is out, pvp was a big part of that.

 

 

Just got my alt to 50 and i agree with this 100%

[KantaUO]

The answer is you probably haven't been playing fully tweaked out characters.

 

Most of them have quit due to boredom. The others find it frustrating to queue with people who have no idea what their doing. And for the rest that don't fall into the two categories, probably don't hit you much because they're too busy saving their team from their own stupidity.

 

In the rare event they get a competent team you'll see Force scream critical hits, smashes, railshots, deathfields of 4-8K because they've expertly timed bloodthirst. But since you're in recruit gear and not-a-light-armor user you wont see the blunt of the complaints.

 

What game are you playing? Even against full greens I cannot crit for 8k on death field or railshot. Cannot break 7k ever even with wz buff.

[Skolops]

I have to say, just starting lvl 50 pvping with my shadow. I can say the gear gap between a fresh 50 with recruit vs decked out people is brutally bad. I have upper 13k hp and I can be three or 4 shotted pretty dang easily. I pretty much feel like cannon fodder out there and a worthless spot on my team. Like a poster said above, I went through rift playing the pvp gear gating and finally made it to the top and now with swtor it's the same. I don't know if I have it in my again to do it.

 

I don't know why developers keep doing this, it's not fun. Yea once you claw to the top it's not bad but for those of us on the bottom, it's pretty bad. Add in all the stuns and snares, it often feels like you spend more time respawning than actually fighting. Some people will continue to run their necks and call people bads, newbs, whatever, but all it will do is chase people off from the game. People wonder why swtor is going free to play before even the first year is out, pvp was a big part of that.

 

You may be playing incorrectly, honestly. If you're eating a whole bunch of stuns constantly, it means you're putting yourself in position to be focused, either by positioning, by attacking into groups that have a numbers advantage, etc. You shouldn't be doing this in the best of the best gear, let alone recruit gear. If you are smart with positoning - especially at the start of a battle - use your cooldowns wisely (which as a Shadow are AMAZING) and, perhaps most importantly, manage to wind up on some competent teams, you should't have that much of a problem with this stuff.

 

Case in point: In entering the 50s fresh in recruit with my Shadow, Assassin, and Guardian, I was used to heading in, getting right into the fight, and doing fine. Now when I hit 50 with m6 Gunslinger, I found myself dying and getting focused a lot. I had to remind myself that the playstyle I was used to with these other characters was not going to be helpful for my Gunslinger. With that class, I needed to lay low, come in behind my teammates, and even try to hold off for a few seconds before I started to fire. This simple change made all the difference in the world.

 

Yes, gear matters, but when people start acting as if gear matters to such extreme degrees, I think that this other kind of stuff is really a bigger issue for them.

[Leiralei]

You may be playing incorrectly, honestly. If you're eating a whole bunch of stuns constantly, it means you're putting yourself in position to be focused, either by positioning, by attacking into groups that have a numbers advantage, etc. You shouldn't be doing this in the best of the best gear, let alone recruit gear. If you are smart with positoning - especially at the start of a battle - use your cooldowns wisely (which as a Shadow are AMAZING) and, perhaps most importantly, manage to wind up on some competent teams, you should't have that much of a problem with this stuff.

 

Except when you're the only person on your team trying to prevent a cap. Eat plenty of stuns then and have to abandon smart play to get the objectives done. Unfortunately that will also give you a reputation as a terrible player because your numbers will be abysmal.

[Skolops]

Except when you're the only person on your team trying to prevent a cap. Eat plenty of stuns then and have to abandon smart play to get the objectives done. Unfortunately that will also give you a reputation as a terrible player because your numbers will be abysmal.

 

That's why I listed getting a better team - which, when pugging, is obviously not up to you.

 

The reality is that if you're in full augmented WH and you're the only one trying to play the objectives, you'll have exactly the same thing happening to you. I've said many times on these forums that the number one cause of people experiencing what they perceive as excess CC is being on a bad team, because it frequently puts them in positions to take on 5 or 6 people all alone, and then they are eating the damage and CC of all those people focused on them alone, when normally all of that CC needs to be spread out around to everyone else, too, and each individual player will find himself CCed far less often.

 

Heck, this is why I can't stand lowbie warzones a lot of the time, because even without a necessarily significant gear gap, it so happens that about 30% of the time I am the only player actually in the correct places trying to manage the objectives and so I just spend the whole game getting stunned, dying, and resing.

[Racter]

BM to WH is not a huge gap, recruit gear to the other sets is pretty sizable. I would guess that you're not playing against geared people. I got killed in a single GCD pretty often in recruit gear on my Sent. Pretty terrible experience.

[Skolops]

BM to WH is not a huge gap, recruit gear to the other sets is pretty sizable. I would guess that you're not playing against geared people. I got killed in a single GCD pretty often in recruit gear on my Sent. Pretty terrible experience.

 

No, you didn't. Not from one person, anyways. There is absolutely no such thing as a 13 or 14k hit or anything even remotely close.

[sanchito]

...I'm still waiting for a team that uses blue crafted gear...

 

why?If you want to prove / disprove that there is a skill difference among equally geared teams it's far easier to find a team in all purples that doesn't get a 2k rating although they try.

[Morrolan]

BM to WH is not a huge gap,

It may not look like a huge gap on paper but I certainly notice a significant gap in performance if I'm on a primarily BM geared team up against a primarily WH geared team.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Morrolan

[CHGood]

Im running deception spec sin (mostly battlemaster gear) and the only melee who ever usually out DPS me is a WH geared marauder...

[vimm]

...ok, so how many arena teams in wow are 2000+ with blue crafted pvp gear?...link them all since there should be a whole bunch...

 

You said this game takes no skill and are using another game to prove your point?

[terpineva]

Its massive. You get 2-3 recruit geared players in your pub its almost a guaranteed loss. The difference between recruit gear and Fully Augmented WH/BM is massive. Maybe 30%?

 

I would like to blame the players for showing up in recruit gear, but TBH, its Biowares fault. Augmented gear has thrown everything (especially TTK) out of whack. Recruit gear needs to be much closer to BM than it is.

 

All 3 of my characters are full WH with Augments, my gripe isn't about my gear but the guys I'm forced to play with when I'm not doing rateds.

[Skolops]

Its massive. You get 2-3 recruit geared players in your pub its almost a guaranteed loss. The difference between recruit gear and Fully Augmented WH/BM is massive. Maybe 30%?

 

I would like to blame the players for showing up in recruit gear, but TBH, its Biowares fault. Augmented gear has thrown everything (especially TTK) out of whack. Recruit gear needs to be much closer to BM than it is.

 

All 3 of my characters are full WH with Augments, my gripe isn't about my gear but the guys I'm forced to play with when I'm not doing rateds.

 

The disadvantage to a group that gets several players in recruit gear is definitely exponentially larger than the disadvantage to a single player who is in Recruit gear.

[Campaigner]

Compared to Warhammer Online?

 

The gap gear in this game is nothing.