Advance Class Respec

[CorellianWannabe]

No, it's telling you that you made a choice that had a consequence associated with it. Most of us are only asking for the consequence to be lessened, not completely removed. You are paying to play a game with others players. It is the other players business. Play a single player game where nobody has to interact or compete with you. Then you can argue that.

 

Odd that it's the only choice with consequences then-conversations can be redone until optimum choices are made and companion death was removed entirely.

 

This effectively is a single-player game-or haven't you noticed? With a trusty companion you have little to no need to participate in group activities. The game is designed around solo play. The fact that getting a group together meant spamming general chat for months speaks to that.

 

And how would swtiching advanced specs affect you anyway? YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE OPTION. Are you worried that players will switch without knowing how to play that spec? It already happens now- the dps shadow that decides to take pug flashpoints, the scoundrel that has never healed, the player that was powerleveled because her guild needed another body in a role.

 

Hell ban respecs too-that vanguard won't know how to tank if he leveled as dps. Why affect other players that way? Make him tank from level 10 or so, that way he won't be a drag on other players. Hell, make that a requirement in the group finder-must have leveled as the role you are seeking to fill (that way you can only choose one role-and those that switched back and forth would get the default pit of dps).

[Pvtcarnage]

That is sunk time and has no bearing going forward. Not everything has to be fair retroactively.

 

They presumably had fun while leveling their multiple characters, that will not change, and they'd only have more options going forward.

 

No it would make one of my toons pointless and therefore would have to offer something for the people that went with what they stated in the first place.

[Jnight]

No it would make one of my toons pointless and therefore would have to offer something for the people that went with what they stated in the first place.

My point is that the whole point in having "toons" (shudder) is to have fun playing the game. Did you not have fun? There, value received.

 

If your 2nd character is now pointless that must mean its worth has transferred to your 1st character, you are no further behind.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Jnight

[Russkiier]

ok, to the people that say that different specs (like healing vs dps for the sorceror) are different classes...really?

they use the same resource mechanic, similiar resource pools, and have maybe 4 or 5 different abilities. There stat priorities might be a little different, but if I respecced my healing sorc to lighting dps, I could still pull my weight in HM FPs (currently in a mix of tionese and columi)

 

Sorceror and assassin are far more different, even in the shared tree. When I started leveling my jedi shadow (after getting to 50 on my sorc) I was frustrated because I kept running out of force Because I wasn't used to having 1/6th the amount of force I usually do.

 

Does it take 50 levels to figure out that you dislike a certain style of play?

[PlagaNerezza]

They won't because they will lose more if they do.. Breaking the game is not a good way to make money.. The advent of the cash shops doesn't mean they are going to change fundemental mechanics of the game..

 

You all can believe what you want.. Reducing the number of clssses by half will kill the game..

 

As I have said.. This issue has been discussed countless times.. It is a dead horse at this point.. It isn't going to happen.. Cash store or not.. Allowing AC respecs will truely kill the game.. They will lose money if they allow it..

 

How do they lose money by selling advanced class or class respec?

 

I also love how people are speculating what will be in the cash store beyond what has been stated. Most of the developers who put in place the rules governing AC's probably no longer work for Bioware or on this project. Any statements like never are just not possible to be true in a game with ongoing development. There are no plans to allow class or advanced class respec at this time.

 

That doesn't mean that if you listed it as a $99.99 item at a cash store it wouldn't be bought. Quiet frankly F2P was never ever going to be an option if you look at the design specifications for this game.

 

It might be an option and I think its a fair request to be made for the cash store. I think its a valuable thing that has absolutely no impact on the game.

 

Besides reducing some need to have alts. If I could switch my class or advanced class, I fail to see how this "breaks" this game.

 

Hell I can completely level in this game without doing anything but the starter planet. So what is game breaking I fail to understand.

 

I vote yes. Class respec for $99.99. AC Respec for $49.99.

 

I'd like to see you able to purchase lvl 50 status as well. I hate having to redo quests some of them I've done about 10 times.

[Jnight]

How do they lose money by selling advanced class or class respec?

I realize your questions was most likely rhetorical, but I feel the need to answer for those who don't know.

 

There is a false belief that if respecs are allowed that people will then reduce their play time by the amount they would have to put into that 2nd character which realistically may equate to some time, but not anything of significance like they would have you believe.

 

People who would swap still need to gather gear for both specs, still will be in game playing when they play the other spec, and will likely play more because the game can be fresh, change and adapt more easily to their given mood and current desire of play style.

 

If you are the type of person who likes focusing on a single character or playing with your friends/guild at Max level, the prospect of leveling another character just to experience a different style of play is likely to force you to stop playing the game altogether, rather than encourage you to roll a new character to squeeze a few extra hours out of you. These people would be more likely to keep playing their existing character a different way if it was possible.

 

'nuff said.

[CorellianWannabe]

No it would make one of my toons pointless and therefore would have to offer something for the people that went with what they stated in the first place.

 

So if you created a human guardian in Dec but really wanted a chiss guardian instead you would have a pointless toon after the legacy unlocks went live?

 

I'd support a race change just like an advanced spec change.

[CorellianWannabe]

ok, to the people that say that different specs (like healing vs dps for the sorceror) are different classes...really?

they use the same resource mechanic, similiar resource pools, and have maybe 4 or 5 different abilities. There stat priorities might be a little different, but if I respecced my healing sorc to lighting dps, I could still pull my weight in HM FPs (currently in a mix of tionese and columi)

 

Sorceror and assassin are far more different, even in the shared tree. When I started leveling my jedi shadow (after getting to 50 on my sorc) I was frustrated because I kept running out of force Because I wasn't used to having 1/6th the amount of force I usually do.

 

Does it take 50 levels to figure out that you dislike a certain style of play?

 

So guardians and sentinels use the same mechanics and pools so they're the same? Same for troopers? So by your words at least half the classes use the same specs (and the only real difference between scoundrel and gunslinger is one has stealth-same resources and mechanics otherwise, just one prefers cover). That leaves 1 out of 4 classes.

 

Maybe a players dislikes the fact that the spec chosen was gutted by BW in one of their endless nerfs? Maybe it doesn't have the punch of the other spec when it comes to ops?

[TheWookiee]

Let me pose a hypothetical question to everyone responding in this thread.

 

What do you think Bioware/EA will make more money on: Leveling an alt (Which has been stated by the dev team, will the the "Free" to 50" part of the F2P version of the game come November,

 

Or

 

Re-gearing your level 50 toon for another AC (I.E. new raid gear, new PvP gear, re-running Oprations, FPs, PvP WZ, etc. which I will add has been stated by the devs to be the "Premium" or "Pay" part of their new game model?

 

Please note, I am not taking sides so do not quote and repost for me being for or against the AC option.

[mdob]

I know folks that took the time to level the same class twice, due to BWs stance, will never agree with AC respec, but you do all realize that this is an MMO and the only thing you can count on in an MMO is change.

 

As far as my personal experience with this issue. I helped my son get his Shadow to 43 and then he decided he wanted a Sage instead. So, I helped him get the sage to 35 before he decided to unsub.

 

I can't be sure, but I would speculate that, if he could have switched his Shadow to a Sage, he would be level 50 and BW would still be collecting his sub fee.

[Russkiier]

So guardians and sentinels use the same mechanics and pools so they're the same? Same for troopers? So by your words at least half the classes use the same specs (and the only real difference between scoundrel and gunslinger is one has stealth-same resources and mechanics otherwise, just one prefers cover). That leaves 1 out of 4 classes.

 

Maybe a players dislikes the fact that the spec chosen was gutted by BW in one of their endless nerfs? Maybe it doesn't have the punch of the other spec when it comes to ops?

 

I used sorceror/assassin because I am most familiar with their playstyles. I am not going to claim ultimate knowledge of all the classes, but the differences between op and sniper is more than just stealth. ops can heal and have more instant cast abilities, snipers are dependent on cover and have 30-35 meter range for most of their attacks.

 

Would an operative that respecced into a sniper be incapable of playing a sniper well? Of course not, but it would take more time then switching from Marksmanship to Enginneering (for snipers) or Corruption to Madness (for sorcs). With the addition of group finder, the chances of ending up with some dolt that doesn't know how to play his (or her) class is already greater than it was pre Group Finder (side note: I like group finder, I'm glad its in game, but it can't prevent scrubs from queuing). By allowing AC respecs, the chances of being stuck with somebody who doesn't know his class as well as he could after 50 levels, would be much greater and that would impact my fp and ops experience.

 

Also, nerfs happen. When the sorc healing nerfs were announced the QQ rained down from the sky. As I consider myself an average mmo-er (not leet or pro by any means), I got used to the longer cast time of Dark Infusion and the health cost of consumption. If you're advanced class was nerfed into the ground, does that mean that ALL three specs are useless? Or are you choosing not to figure out how to optimize your talents or rotation?

 

Edit: called you lazy and felt bad for name calling

Edited August 10, 2012 by Russkiier

[Kourage]

Odd that it's the only choice with consequences then-conversations can be redone until optimum choices are made and companion death was removed entirely.

 

This effectively is a single-player game-or haven't you noticed? With a trusty companion you have little to no need to participate in group activities. The game is designed around solo play. The fact that getting a group together meant spamming general chat for months speaks to that.

 

And how would swtiching advanced specs affect you anyway? YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE OPTION. Are you worried that players will switch without knowing how to play that spec? It already happens now- the dps shadow that decides to take pug flashpoints, the scoundrel that has never healed, the player that was powerleveled because her guild needed another body in a role.

 

Hell ban respecs too-that vanguard won't know how to tank if he leveled as dps. Why affect other players that way? Make him tank from level 10 or so, that way he won't be a drag on other players. Hell, make that a requirement in the group finder-must have leveled as the role you are seeking to fill (that way you can only choose one role-and those that switched back and forth would get the default pit of dps).

 

Alright BioWare. Let us change anything and everything anytime we want to, with no cool down and at no cost. Thanks in advance.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Kourage

[Ratajack]

That is sunk time and has no bearing going forward. Not everything has to be fair retroactively.

 

They presumably had fun while leveling their multiple characters, that will not change, and they'd only have more options going forward.

 

Everyone who leveled one AC presumably had fun while leveling that AC. That will not change, and if they do not allow class changing then everyone will still have the same options going forward as they do now. No one is being prevented from experiencing the other AC now, but to experience the other AC it does mean that you have to put out some effort and time to level it.

[Ratajack]

You're the one that started with pointless 'hypothetical' scenarios about how the game will lose thousands because of whiny ragequitters if this is allowed. By your logic I can say that it's possible that 1.4 million players (or more since BW won't release the true number) have left because this feature hasn't been implemented. Now we've both spent electrons on EXTREMELY unlikely hypothetical scenarios.

 

If I recall correctly, it was not me who made the claim that BW has lost 1.4 million subs by not allowing players to change class. I simply pointed out that it is impossible to tie the loss of subs to the inability to change class. As far as how the game WILL lose thousands of players if they allow class changes, I did not say that they WILL lose thousands of subs. What I said was

 

Depends on how many people will stop playing or paying if they do allow class changes. No one knows what the actual numbers would be on either side, but hypothetically let's say 50k players stop paying to play if they allow class changes. That's 750k/month the game company loses. Now let's say 50k people pay to change class. We've already seen the "GIMME THE RESPEC" people asking for the cost to be 4.99 and those same people have stated that they want to change because their current class was nerfed and they want to play the OP other AC. Do you really think that those people will be changing class 3 times a month? I don't. That means BW would LOSE 500k month, and that's assuming those people would actually pay to change class at least once a month. I think we both know the FOTM players wouldn't. They'll be sticking with whichever AC is OP at the time. Which way do you think BW/EA willl go if they stand to lose more in paying subs than they'll make at the cash store?

 

I was trying to point out that allowing class changes MAY cost BW more in paying subs than allowing class changes would bring in. My "hypothetical" number of 50K was based on a modest 10% of 500k subs, a number which I think they still have at this point. If you read the post to which you refer, you might have noticed that that same "hypothetical" 10% was the number of people willing to pay to change class, and that I also stated that no one knows the exact numbers on either side, hence the "hypothetical" number. Maybe there will be 100k people who would pay to change class and only 10K that would stop paying the monthly sub, but it could go the other way, as well.

[Ratajack]

So guardians and sentinels use the same mechanics and pools so they're the same? Same for troopers? So by your words at least half the classes use the same specs (and the only real difference between scoundrel and gunslinger is one has stealth-same resources and mechanics otherwise, just one prefers cover). That leaves 1 out of 4 classes.

 

Maybe a players dislikes the fact that the spec chosen was gutted by BW in one of their endless nerfs? Maybe it doesn't have the punch of the other spec when it comes to ops?

 

So, what you are really asking for is the option to change your class to the OP, FOTM, god mode class? In "that other game", how many classes were nerfed into oblivion and then subsequently buffed over the time that game has existed? Should they have allowed everyone to change class to the FOTM in the game?

[Jnight]

Everyone who leveled one AC presumably had fun while leveling that AC. That will not change, and if they do not allow class changing then everyone will still have the same options going forward as they do now. No one is being prevented from experiencing the other AC now, but to experience the other AC it does mean that you have to put out some effort and time to level it.

 

It's true, but I know people who prefer to play at max level with their friends, but they get burned out playing a certain way, but don't want to level another character. They just kinda fade out, stop playing cause they are bored, then cancel their sub. If there was a way to change advanced class without leveling all over again, burn out and boredom comes more slowly.

 

I'm not saying it needs to be implemented now or that you should be able to change whatever you want any time you want for free, but an option to switch with fee or time delay or something, would save some of those at end game who have no desire to level another.

 

Is it not about keeping people entertainted to keep subs?

[CorellianWannabe]

So, what you are really asking for is the option to change your class to the OP, FOTM, god mode class? In "that other game", how many classes were nerfed into oblivion and then subsequently buffed over the time that game has existed? Should they have allowed everyone to change class to the FOTM in the game?

 

No-I'm saying why people would want to change advanced spec without grinding through the EXACT SAME STORY. And don't say 'play the Imperial version'- maybe they want to run ops with their guild or wz with their friends. I personally refuse to run ops and mess around in warzones for fun with my warrior-so for me it's more a 'why the hell should I grind another character for the same story'? I tried the consular story-not interesting enough after 20 levels to bother continuing. Why should I play the inquisitor story twice to get both specs?

 

If their specs had been as pointlessly restrictive, then yes they should have. Perhaps I'm biased from years of playing shamans and paladins in that game, but it went years before they were afraid to let players have spec freedom (which is when I left). This game had wailing about tank specs in dps gear until the option was nerfed to death. God forbid anyone play how they want..

[Russkiier]

No-I'm saying why people would want to change advanced spec without grinding through the EXACT SAME STORY. And don't say 'play the Imperial version'- maybe they want to run ops with their guild or wz with their friends. I personally refuse to run ops and mess around in warzones for fun with my warrior-so for me it's more a 'why the hell should I grind another character for the same story'? I tried the consular story-not interesting enough after 20 levels to bother continuing. Why should I play the inquisitor story twice to get both specs?

 

If their specs had been as pointlessly restrictive, then yes they should have. Perhaps I'm biased from years of playing shamans and paladins in that game, but it went years before they were afraid to let players have spec freedom (which is when I left). This game had wailing about tank specs in dps gear until the option was nerfed to death. God forbid anyone play how they want..

 

The problem, if i recall, about tanks playing in dps gear was that the tank spec gave a huge boost in survivability (as opposed to the dps spec) but with dps gear could maintain much of their dps. That is an issue, a tank spec should to mediocre damage, but be able to take a lot of hits, and make enemies attack them. A dps spec is perhaps more varied, as they can do more sustained, burst, some sort of combo, use DoTs, or AoEs, etc etc. The issue arises when the survivability of a tank is given comparable dps to a DPS spec.

 

If you think about it, this game gives a lot of freedom compared to other games (in certain areas). I can choose to be a rampaging psychopath, or a paragon of moral character, or somewhere in between. Granted, this game could gain a lot by having more sandboxy elements (minigames, guild houses/ships/banners, etc)

 

And you are playing how you want. you "refuse to run ops or fool around in warzones". YOU made that decision. But that doesnt mean you should get Campaign and Rakata gear because you don't want to do the work. Having a 50 character is the same way. Why should you get a free pass to 50 with a different character

[Ratajack]

No-I'm saying why people would want to change advanced spec without grinding through the EXACT SAME STORY. And don't say 'play the Imperial version'- maybe they want to run ops with their guild or wz with their friends. I personally refuse to run ops and mess around in warzones for fun with my warrior-so for me it's more a 'why the hell should I grind another character for the same story'? I tried the consular story-not interesting enough after 20 levels to bother continuing. Why should I play the inquisitor story twice to get both specs?

 

If their specs had been as pointlessly restrictive, then yes they should have. Perhaps I'm biased from years of playing shamans and paladins in that game, but it went years before they were afraid to let players have spec freedom (which is when I left). This game had wailing about tank specs in dps gear until the option was nerfed to death. God forbid anyone play how they want..

 

Shamans and paladins? No, you're not interested in playing the easy mode, OP, god mode classes at all. Was there a more OP class than shamans early, or paladins prior to the introduction of DK's? I can remember seeing raid geared 60's turn around and run when they saw a 50 shaman, because shaman were THAT powerful. Paladins in BG's were able to dish out tons of damage and live forever with their heals. But given your complaint about the nerfing of the option to play in tank spec with DPS gear, I'm not at all surprised. I'm guessing you were one of those tank spec, DPS geared players.

[OHMYZOD]

Ratajack, do you even play Star Wars? Because every time I look at this post you have some WoW analogy or pitfall you're explaining. I think its great you love that game, and I continue to look for all of your analogies about it. All of the above is going to help this ailing game alot.

[CorellianWannabe]

The problem, if i recall, about tanks playing in dps gear was that the tank spec gave a huge boost in survivability (as opposed to the dps spec) but with dps gear could maintain much of their dps. That is an issue, a tank spec should to mediocre damage, but be able to take a lot of hits, and make enemies attack them. A dps spec is perhaps more varied, as they can do more sustained, burst, some sort of combo, use DoTs, or AoEs, etc etc. The issue arises when the survivability of a tank is given comparable dps to a DPS spec.

 

If you think about it, this game gives a lot of freedom compared to other games (in certain areas). I can choose to be a rampaging psychopath, or a paragon of moral character, or somewhere in between. Granted, this game could gain a lot by having more sandboxy elements (minigames, guild houses/ships/banners, etc)

 

And you are playing how you want. you "refuse to run ops or fool around in warzones". YOU made that decision. But that doesnt mean you should get Campaign and Rakata gear because you don't want to do the work. Having a 50 character is the same way. Why should you get a free pass to 50 with a different character

 

So it's a problem because tanking tools are based on talents rather than gear? Then why have tanking gear at all? Is it for tank companions that are rarely used?

 

But it doesn't matter-playing a psychopath and playing a saint lead to the same point at endgame. I get the same companions regardless-even though butchering everyone I can should send companions like T7 and Kira fleeing. I'm talking about gameplay freedom since the story ends but the gameplay theoretically shouldn't.

 

So it's ok for commandos to switch between heals and dps (effectively getting a new 50 with new skills) and ok for vanguards to switch between tanking and dps, but switching between all 3 roles (which thanks to design means both specs) will destroy the game? At 50 there is no more story right now- and even in the future story doesn't depend on advanced spec.

 

Besides, I keep hearing that powerleveling to 50 only takes a week or two. So it doesn't stop the player being fed xp by his guild because they need another tank, or the pvper that wants a new FOTM.

[CorellianWannabe]

Shamans and paladins? No, you're not interested in playing the easy mode, OP, god mode classes at all. Was there a more OP class than shamans early, or paladins prior to the introduction of DK's? I can remember seeing raid geared 60's turn around and run when they saw a 50 shaman, because shaman were THAT powerful. Paladins in BG's were able to dish out tons of damage and live forever with their heals. But given your complaint about the nerfing of the option to play in tank spec with DPS gear, I'm not at all surprised. I'm guessing you were one of those tank spec, DPS geared players.

 

 

Actually I have never had a spec at all in warzones-as I said I take my warrior in there. Not juggernaut, not marauder.

 

Didn't you just say that WoW classes have been on a buff/nerf rollercoaster for years? I recall when retribution paladins got to be OP for a whole week or two before the nerf bat hit them. Besides, gear actually matters in WoW-if you wanted defense you had to gear for it-it wasn't given with talent points back then.

 

As for shamans, I wasn't playing in the days of 60s wearing raid gear in battlegrounds-sorry I came in during Burning Crusade. I've just read plenty about the bad old days of WoW. I guess I missed the truly overpowered period-was it a problem for you because Alliance didn't have them at the time? Even thought they had the equally OP paladins?

 

So what were the 'real player' classes there-since the two I mentioned were clearly for powergaming twinks?

Or don't bother since you previously said all have had their FOTM moment to shine. Never mind that I played mine whether they were OP or not..

[Toogeloo]

Out of curiosity, how is Advanced Class Respec not a Pay to Win feature? I asked a hypothetical question in another thread if people would pay for instant level 50 or for credits, and people label those as Pay to Win apparently because of the effect it has on the game for ezmode content or some BS.

 

I would wager that many people want a Advance Class respec because their current class is not as good as the other side. Let's consider the OP for a moment, shall we? Currently, Powertechs are considered one of the strongest Classes in the game, while Mercenaries are considered one of the weakest. Would an AC switch from Merc to Powertech mean the buyer just P2W for PvP purposes? Sure he "says" he will roll Advance Prototype, but there's nothing stopping him from going Pyro if he wanted to after the switch.

 

 

I could say I just want to walk around showing off my +10 Lightsaber of Instant Death, I'll never use it. Can I please buy one from the Cash Shop?

Edited August 11, 2012 by Toogeloo

[discosoc]

Then why do they share the exact same storyline? I'm sure Bioware didnt think the game would be F2P within 1 year either, but ......

 

Probably because it's cheaper to create 8 unique story lines, complete with full voice overs, than to create 16...

[OHMYZOD]

Hey Toogeloo, its totally ok though for me to keep paying to lose though right? I mean if you play a gimp character go right ahead and keep repeating daily frustration for 90+ valor lvls. Bodyguard has been trashed, Arsenal has been trashed, and Pyro is nothing compared to its PowerTech cousin. Basically the entire Mercenary lineup is garbage, Sorcs have been destroyed, concealment Ops have been gutted... although healing ops are great now ( better than sorcs and mercs combined) . Trust me if Juggs had this oppotunity theyd respec Marauder, just like I'd respec Powertech, just like Sorcs would respec Assassin. Its like playing chess without a queen against someone with 2.

 

You eventually tip the King and concede. Tired of this, if they wont fix the game then let me fix it on my own.