Advance Class Respec

[CorellianWannabe]

It's not just me calling it classes, or even me along with multitudes of others, it's also BW. You know, the company that developed the game. I think their words might carry a bit more weight than mine, but that presumes people are actually willing to listen. Obviously the "entitled, GIMME THE RESPEC" people are not.

 

 

So, you're ok with a tank who switched was heals 5 minutes before trying to tank that hard mode FP, but not ok with a doctor who switched specializations? Also, if I needed a cardiologist, I would want one that actually trained as one, not just a GP who thinks he's not "magically less effective".

 

The same people that said they wouldn't go free to play, that same gender romance would be implemented, that choices would matter (but only this one apparently)?

 

So you're ok with a tank that was dps 5 minutes previously? Or a healer that was dps 5 minutes ago? How are these magically more acceptable than a healer that was a tank 5 minutes earlier?

 

As for your doctor analogy, a GP is a like a bounty hunter that didn't choose an advanced spec. In the real world that doctor is not less effective at medicine because he didn't specialize in an area of the body. By your logic a proctologist (aka points in the healing tree) is just like a brain surgeon (points in a dps tree), but both are far superior to the GP (character that didn't take the advanced spec at all). Would you trust your cranial surgery to a proctologist that 5 minutes ago decided to be a brain surgeon? What about a criminal lawyer for your lawsuit because last week he decided that civil law has more revenue potential?

[Ratajack]

They have the exact same class story. Playing both requires you to repeat the exact same class story and prevents you from having 1 of each class on the server for the bonus. In fact, there is no legacy bonus for having 2 advanced specs of the same class. There is no separate story for a Powertech and a Mercenary. They are in fact the same class.

 

Furthermore, SWG allowed you to completely change your class/profession. It really doesn't hurt anything at all to allow an advance class change.

 

You can have 4 republic toons and 4 imperial.

 

Just an example

 

Imperial- juggernaut, sorcerer, sniper and powertech

Republic- sentinel, shadow, scoundrel and commando

 

You get to experience all 8 storylines, and how all 8 classes play and you get the bonus for having all four classes on both factions.

[CorellianWannabe]

This is EXACTLY what it boils down to for some people. The AC that they chose is no longer god mode and has been nerfed, so now they insist that BW allow them to play the more OP AC without leveling it.

 

So do you really want a vanguard tank that the player powerleveled in a week or so, without ever tanking before 50 (since flashpoints are not the most efficient xp gain)? Would you prefer to have a player that knows how to play a commando and is geared as opposed to a vanguard that has never tanked for a group and needs gear?

 

As for pvp-it's a sideshow in any game that isn't built around it from the start. Most pvper's have already left and the remaining ones will grind one of each spec anyway-just to rotate among the 'FOTM' ones. Perhaps if Bioware could balance the specs this wouldn't be a problem.

[Ratajack]

The same people that said they wouldn't go free to play, that same gender romance would be implemented, that choices would matter (but only this one apparently)?

 

So you're ok with a tank that was dps 5 minutes previously? Or a healer that was dps 5 minutes ago? How are these magically more acceptable than a healer that was a tank 5 minutes earlier?

 

As for your doctor analogy, a GP is a like a bounty hunter that didn't choose an advanced spec. In the real world that doctor is not less effective at medicine because he didn't specialize in an area of the body. By your logic a proctologist (aka points in the healing tree) is just like a brain surgeon (points in a dps tree), but both are far superior to the GP (character that didn't take the advanced spec at all). Would you trust your cranial surgery to a proctologist that 5 minutes ago decided to be a brain surgeon? What about a criminal lawyer for your lawsuit because last week he decided that civil law has more revenue potential?

 

I do not believe that I said that a GP was less effective at medicine than a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon. I said that a doctor did not have to choose a specialty-just like your point that you can level to 50 without choosing an advanced spec. However, that doctor does have the option to choose a specialty (AC) which will increase his skill level in the desired field. It will not also increase his skill level in any other area of expertise. If he wants to change specialties, then he will have to start at the beginning for whatever new specialty he chooses(reroll for the other AC).

[CorellianWannabe]

I do not believe that I said that a GP was less effective at medicine than a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon. I said that a doctor did not have to choose a specialty-just like your point that you can level to 50 without choosing an advanced spec. However, that doctor does have the option to choose a specialty (AC) which will increase his skill level in the desired field. It will not also increase his skill level in any other area of expertise. If he wants to change specialties, then he will have to start at the beginning for whatever new specialty he chooses(reroll for the other AC).

 

So what if he chooses two specialities (just like college students can have a double major)?

 

So heals and dps are part of the same area of expertise, but tanking being in there as well breaks the game somehow? If a spec had each role in a separate tree would it be acceptable or would people rail at how overpowered it was and impossible to balance?

[Echriado]

I do not believe that I said that a GP was less effective at medicine than a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon. I said that a doctor did not have to choose a specialty-just like your point that you can level to 50 without choosing an advanced spec. However, that doctor does have the option to choose a specialty (AC) which will increase his skill level in the desired field. It will not also increase his skill level in any other area of expertise. If he wants to change specialties, then he will have to start at the beginning for whatever new specialty he chooses(reroll for the other AC).

 

Except....that....you're talking about the real world when we're playing a game based in a fictional galaxy. Even more to disprove your point. Doc, the jedi knight's DOCTOR wields a blaster and is able to 1. Bleed people 2. Shoot people. 3. Freeze people. Clearly two different specializations at play right now. All for what? The sake of gameplay. Go away now, your un-ending posts are getting tiresome to read.

[Ratajack]

So do you really want a vanguard tank that the player powerleveled in a week or so, without ever tanking before 50 (since flashpoints are not the most efficient xp gain)? Would you prefer to have a player that knows how to play a commando and is geared as opposed to a vanguard that has never tanked for a group and needs gear?

 

As for pvp-it's a sideshow in any game that isn't built around it from the start. Most pvper's have already left and the remaining ones will grind one of each spec anyway-just to rotate among the 'FOTM' ones. Perhaps if Bioware could balance the specs this wouldn't be a problem.

 

I doubt that the "GIMME THE RESPEC" crowd will be leveling one of each class. They seem to not even want to level one of the other AC, let alone the other 6 classes.

 

As for your question regarding inexperienced vanguard or geared commando, I think most people would prefer to have an experienced vanguard tank, but I sure wouldn't want a commando, geared or otherwise tanking in any FP I'm running. Same goes the other way, I'd prefer a geared experienced commando healing, but I would definitely prefer an undergeared, inexperienced commando healing for me over a vanguard.

[Ratajack]

So what if he chooses two specialities (just like college students can have a double major)?

 

So heals and dps are part of the same area of expertise, but tanking being in there as well breaks the game somehow? If a spec had each role in a separate tree would it be acceptable or would people rail at how overpowered it was and impossible to balance?

 

Let's go back to that part where BW stated that they set up the talent trees the way they did because they did not want any one class to be able to fill all three roles. Oh, look at that, no one class can fill all three roles.

[Fermian]

Let's go back to that part where BW stated that they set up the talent trees the way they did because they did not want any one class to be able to fill all three roles. Oh, look at that, no one class can fill all three roles.

 

Well they also talked about this ranged class that could tank. But this topic isn't created to discuss the current situation, we all know how it is now. And as it now you can still level as damage and start healing at 50, the respec is already there.

 

About the doc comment. You don't need 4 year to be able to heal, after placing all the required skills at your hotbars most people should be able to heal a lvl 50 dungeon.

 

The facts are:

-The advanced classes aren't completely different classes. Same resources/looks/shared skills and they even share a talent tree.

-The options for each advanced class are limited compared to other games.

-They used the same talent system this other game had 4 years ago but with less variation in specs.

[Kourage]

You can have 4 republic toons and 4 imperial.

 

Just an example

 

Imperial- juggernaut, sorcerer, sniper and powertech

Republic- sentinel, shadow, scoundrel and commando

 

You get to experience all 8 storylines, and how all 8 classes play and you get the bonus for having all four classes on both factions.

 

Your response had nothing to do with what I wrote. Perhaps you should read it again.

[Kourage]

You can have 4 republic toons and 4 imperial.

 

Just an example

 

Imperial- juggernaut, sorcerer, sniper and powertech

Republic- sentinel, shadow, scoundrel and commando

 

You get to experience all 8 storylines, and how all 8 classes play and you get the bonus for having all four classes on both factions.

 

 

Perhaps you should read it again. If you play both advanced classes of a class, there are not enough character slots to create 1 of each class on a single server to get full legacy buffs.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Kourage

[MajikMyst]

The facts are:

-The advanced classes aren't completely different classes. Same resources/looks/shared skills and they even share a talent tree.

-The options for each advanced class are limited compared to other games.

-They used the same talent system this other game had 4 years ago but with less variation in specs.

 

So do mages and warlocks.. They are different clases.. The problem is, you have no authority to determine what a class is or isn't.. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts..

 

They are not the same class so says Bioware.. Case closed..

 

If you can't use the same standards to define a class in all MMO's, then you can't define them.. If you can't define them, then your arguements and points are moot..

 

Have a nice day..

Edited August 9, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Ratajack]

Perhaps you should read it again. If you play both advanced classes of a class, there are not enough character slots to create 1 of each class on a single server to get full legacy buffs.

 

True, but my point was that since the mirror AC's play the same, with different animations and names for the skills, you can experience all 8 playstyles and still get the bonus.

[OHMYZOD]

LOL Majikmyst and Ratajack... Keep up the filibuster. I like how majik thinks he works for Bioware with all these "There will be none of this, There will be none of that because MAJIK says so." You 2 guys are the only people arguing this to the death. Surgeon analogies, Insults, Lazy references.... Give it up.

 

Your fleet is lost, and your friends on the Endor moon will not survive. The argument will die... as will your friends.

[warultima]

Never say "this would never happen" when there's a cash shop with the publisher in dire need to make money.

[Ratajack]

LOL Majikmyst and Ratajack... Keep up the filibuster. I like how majik thinks he works for Bioware with all these "There will be none of this, There will be none of that because MAJIK says so." You 2 guys are the only people arguing this to the death. Surgeon analogies, Insults, Lazy references.... Give it up.

 

Your fleet is lost, and your friends on the Endor moon will not survive. The argument will die... as will your friends.

 

I guess if the "GIMME THE RESPEC" people keep begging for handouts, there's always a chance they'll get what they want, but then they'll just be begging for more handouts. If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Toogeloo]

I'd rather BW just make you select your advance class at level 1. This whole respec AC thing is just catering to whiners who are no longer playing classes they find fun and want the fotm or something.

[Delnoir]

I really hope they don't put Advanced AC switching in the cash shop. We should be forced to live with our choices or re-roll. If they absolutely must then they need to make it one of the more (if not the most) expensive options on the store. Cause then you gotta actually think about it. Not to mention that your playstyle change might not accommodate your current companion anymore so you'd need to gear someone else which would mean either tanking credits or struggling through a planet to get new gear.

 

But overall? Keep it out I say. Wanting to change advanced classes strikes to me is the same as wanting class changes in WoW (That's right. I'm going there.) For example let's say you want to go with a DPS toon as a BH and Pyrotech is the marginally better DPS spec at the time. Then all of a sudden Pyrotech gets nerfed or Arsenal gets buffed. Suddenly the DPS obsessed people are going "OMG TO THE CARTEL SHOP AC SWAP!!one1eleven!"

[Ratajack]

Never say "this would never happen" when there's a cash shop with the publisher in dire need to make money.

 

Depends on how many people will stop playing or paying if they do allow class changes. No one knows what the actual numbers would be on either side, but hypothetically let's say 50k players stop paying to play if they allow class changes. That's 750k/month the game company loses. Now let's say 50k people pay to change class. We've already seen the "GIMME THE RESPEC" people asking for the cost to be 4.99 and those same people have stated that they want to change because their current class was nerfed and they want to play the OP other AC. Do you really think that those people will be changing class 3 times a month? I don't. That means BW would LOSE 500k month, and that's assuming those people would actually pay to change class at least once a month. I think we both know the FOTM players wouldn't. They'll be sticking with whichever AC is OP at the time. Which way do you think BW/EA willl go if they stand to lose more in paying subs than they'll make at the cash store?

Edited August 10, 2012 by Ratajack

[leathfuil]

So do mages and warlocks.. They are different clases.. The problem is, you have no authority to determine what a class is or isn't.. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts..

 

You keep saying that mages and warlocks are the same. They are not.

 

So maybe you should take your own advice regarding facts.

[OHMYZOD]

I guess the "GIMME AN ARGUMENT" crowd keeps looking for conflict. Yup we're all whiners, this and that if we wanna see the opportunity arise to spec into 2 different trees. You guys are so good at looking for past articles about whatever makes your fight viable, maybe look at the Forum guidelines. Anyone who is "FOR" having this implemented has been called lazy,crybaby,whiner etc. So far the "AGAINST" crowd assumes their argument holds more water, the more they insult or attack anyone that isnt with them. Again, give me a VIABLE argument that this company wont make money from this and why it shouldnt be allowed other than your High Horse doesnt like it.

[OHMYZOD]

Also, If you decide to quit playing because the company adds in the Advance Class Respec feature... You werent gonna stay subbed anyway. Using that as an excuse holds no water. If someone else's choice impacts YOU that much, then this game is the least of your problems.

[warultima]

Depends on how many people will stop playing or paying if they do allow class changes. No one knows what the actual numbers would be on either side, but hypothetically let's say 50k players stop paying to play if they allow class changes. That's 750k/month the game company loses. Now let's say 50k people pay to change class. We've already seen the "GIMME THE RESPEC" people asking for the cost to be 4.99 and those same people have stated that they want to change because their current class was nerfed and they want to play the OP other AC. Do you really think that those people will be changing class 3 times a month? I don't. That means BW would LOSE 500k month. Which way do you think they'll go if they stand to lose more in paying subs than they'll make at the cash store?

 

As long as BW wants this game to focus more on the monthly subs model they will probably not put in the AC respec token. Then again their main focus might shift in the future. And at this point you can really trust what BiowarEA say. They have "conveniently" lied to their players so many times. They have released games that cost $60+ to buy with PAID DLC on the day of the game's release.

[Ratajack]

Also, If you decide to quit playing because the company adds in the Advance Class Respec feature... You werent gonna stay subbed anyway. Using that as an excuse holds no water. If someone else's choice impacts YOU that much, then this game is the least of your problems.

 

I have no plans to leave this game or even to take the F2P route when it becomes available. That does not mean that I do not reserve the right to reevaluate my decision based on multiple factors. Those factors include, but are not limited to, whether or not BW decides to cater to the people who want things handed to them and whether they put things other than purely cosmetic items in the cash shop.

 

Just as people point out that BW may change their previously stated stances, those players who plan to remain paying subs may change their minds depending on the direction this game takes.

[Ratajack]

I guess the "GIMME AN ARGUMENT" crowd keeps looking for conflict. Yup we're all whiners, this and that if we wanna see the opportunity arise to spec into 2 different trees. You guys are so good at looking for past articles about whatever makes your fight viable, maybe look at the Forum guidelines. Anyone who is "FOR" having this implemented has been called lazy,crybaby,whiner etc. So far the "AGAINST" crowd assumes their argument holds more water, the more they insult or attack anyone that isnt with them. Again, give me a VIABLE argument that this company wont make money from this and why it shouldnt be allowed other than your High Horse doesnt like it.

 

A viable argument? I'll copy this from a previous post, in case you missed it.

 

Depends on how many people will stop playing or paying if they do allow class changes. No one knows what the actual numbers would be on either side, but hypothetically let's say 50k players stop paying to play if they allow class changes. That's 750k/month the game company loses. Now let's say 50k people pay to change class. We've already seen the "GIMME THE RESPEC" people asking for the cost to be 4.99 and those same people have stated that they want to change because their current class was nerfed and they want to play the OP other AC. Do you really think that those people will be changing class 3 times a month? I don't. That means BW would LOSE 500k month, and that's assuming those people would actually pay to change class at least once a month. I think we both know the FOTM players wouldn't. They'll be sticking with whichever AC is OP at the time. Which way do you think BW/EA willl go if they stand to lose more in paying subs than they'll make at the cash store?