Downgrading to Free-to-Play Account

[MajikMyst]

I can see they have to protect themselves from exploitation, but they need to find a way not to screw people who've been subbed and paying all this time. If the day come that people's main characters are taken away from them, then there is a going to be crapstorm of hatemail and forum anger. "Either pay monthly or you can't play that character you've been playing since launch." And I have zero doubt many people will quit playing on the spot due to principal.

 

I fail to see the problem?? If you stop paying your sub fee in WOW you no longer have access to the servers, let alone your characters.. This little fact is applicable in all subscription games.. So why should this one be any different??

 

You are missing the point here.. If you aren't paying for anything, then you aren't entitled to anything..

 

Main or not, if you cancel your sub and go F2P, then you have nothing to complain about.. Paying nothing entitles you to nothing.. That is what you get in WOW and any other subscription game.. Stop paying the subscription and you lose access to the servers and all your characters.. Explain why this game should be any different..

 

The problem is, for your logic to even be applicable, you have to assume ownership of your character.. According to the TOS, you don't own any of your characters..

 

There simply is no principle in the demand that someone is entitled to something for nothing..

 

Your account is not going to be deleted.. As the FAQ has stated.. You will see the characters you have created.. Not to mention the gear they are wearing.. You just won't be able to use them.. F2P doesn't entitle you to anything.. You can't tell Bioware that you don't want to pay them anymore and then expect them to let you play your characters like nothing has happened.. You cancelled.. Be thankful you can play at all..

Edited August 4, 2012 by MajikMyst

[EJedi]

The point I was making, was for the people that seem to feel they are entitled to all the same perks and benifits that a subscription player gets, just for free..

 

That is totally not the case.. As it is now, if you unsub the game you lose access to the game totally and no access to posting in the forums.. Now all of the sudden, with the announcement of F2P, people think they get to keep it all if they unsub??

 

The issue is that they feel that they paid a subsciption for how ever many months and put forth the effort to build the characters they play, that they own them.. That is not correct.. We do not own our characters..

 

Nobody is being thrown away.. If some folks do not wish to pay Bioware/EA any money, that is their choice.. But they have no business expecting anything for free.. They should be thankful for whatever Bioware/EA gives them and live with whatever restrictions that are imposed on the F2P accounts..

 

I simply fail to see any reason why anyone is entitled to anything for free?? If you unsub now you get nothing.. Why is getting something worse than getting nothing.. That is what I need some people to explain.. How and why they are entitled to anything for free..

 

That's not the point. The fact that we BOUGHT THE BOXED COPY should count for something more than cartel coins that will be used up over time. I'm not saying give us the keys to the castle, but give SOMETHING to still make it worth a new F2P player to want to buy the retail box or a full game code.

 

For example, a new F2P player, who starts in December, should get all of the stuff listed in the current F2P column of the features grid. Whatever the full restrictions are going to be, they should be applied to that player. However, if that player PURCHASES AND REGISTERS a copy of the game, they should get permanent access to SOME set of features that everyone who has already bought the game will have.

 

My suggestions are as follows:

 

F2P = Max of 6 character slots

Bought/Registered Game = Max of 8 character slots

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Max of 10 character slots (you get access to two additional slots if you keep paying after F2P starts)

 

F2P = Max of one cargo hold tab

Bought/Registered Game = Max of two cargo hold tabs

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Access to 4+ cargo hold tabs

 

F2P = Cannot be a guildmaster

Bought/Registered Game = CAN be a guildmaster

 

etc.

Edited August 4, 2012 by EJedi

[Blattan]

My suggestions are as follows:

 

What you want is more like the City of Heroes Free/Premium/VIP type model then?

 

I am for it, even though I think City of Heroes Premium level is too restrictive (and that is why I haven't been back since about month after they announced Freemium...). But at least it shows an appreciation for those the have subbed.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Funny, I thought Flashpoints and Raids were part of the stuff we paid for with the box game itself. Now if you don't maintain a sub, they will take away what came in the box. Classic EA all the way and why they have gained the stellar reputation as the Worst Company in America. They certainly do a good job trying to maintain that wonderful reputation.

 

Sorry if you don't get everything for free. If you want to access OPs, pay a subscription like everyone else. I can't believe what some people expect to have access to free of charge.

[EJedi]

Sorry if you don't get everything for free. If you want to access OPs, pay a subscription like everyone else. I can't believe what some people expect to have access to free of charge.

 

It's not free of charge. We DID pay for the box.

 

I actually think the OPs restriction could bite them pretty hard. It can be difficult to find enough players to run OPs as it is. If you can't get enough of the right players, once the F2P starts, then all of their development budget will be wasted on any future OPs.

[Kashley]

I fail to see the problem?? If you stop paying your sub fee in WOW you have access to none of your characters.. This little fact is applicable in all subscription games.. So why should this one be any different??

 

1) Because this game is no longer offering just a subscription based model. That is why this is now different. You do not add an option like F2P with a cash shop without the rules of engagement changing. Yes, you may still sub, but you may now also choose to play this game in the form of free to play. The rules have changed and with that change so does peoples general access. WHICH is the idea to generate interest on the parts of NEW/OLD/RETURNING players. I cant make this any clearer.

 

You are missing the point here.. If you aren't paying for anything, they are you entitled to anything..

 

2) No you are missing the point. Its not just a sub model anymore, put your brain outside of the box. As a free to play customer I am entitled to play the character I have created. In FACT I am entitled to play it in any way I please IF I am WILLING to spend my IRL $$$$$$$$ in EA/BW's new fancy cash shop. THAT is what the general principal is. So yes, I am entitled. Just like you as a 'subbed' player are entitled to do everything I do without having to pay for 'most' of it via the cash shop. (Mark my words on that, you will be spending money there because I guarantee you, your access wont be unlimited just because you are subbed.)

 

Main or not, if you cancel your sub and go F2P, then you have nothing to complain about.. Paying nothing entitles you to nothing.. That is what you get in WOW and any other subscription game.. Stop paying the subscription and you lose access to the servers and all your characters.. Explain why this game should be any different..

 

3) I call BS here as well. I paid for the game for months, I bought the game and dumped my money into this 'paid beta project' that SW:ToR has been. I am allowed to complain to my hearts content. I don't care if I am unsubbed it is my right as a person who has INVESTED my MONEY into the game. As for you comparing this to WoW; WoW is not currently so bad off that they are adding a F2P till 50 with access to some limited end game content such as WZ's and FP's to try and generate some interest in their game again. So the WoW comparison is irrelevant.

 

The problem is, for your logic to even be applivable, you have to assume ownership of your character.. According to the TOS, you don't own any of your characters..

 

4) Just no. According to the ToS your right I dont own them. But even renters have rights. You act like asking to be able to keep gear/titles/inventory space that people have already accumulated while subbed is asking for THE WORLD. Its not, and I am sure that if EA/BW gets to be as big as a stickler as you about this, they can kiss off whatever subs they may have enticed back, or F2P players that would have spent money in their cash shop.

 

There simply is no priciple in the demand someone entitled to something for nothing..

 

You account is not going to be deleted.. As the FAQ has stated.. You will see the characters you have created.. Not to mention the gear they are wearing.. You just won't be able to use them.. F2P doesn't entitle you to anything.. You can't tell Bioware that you don't want to pay them anymore and then expect them to let you play your characters like nothing has happened.. You cancelled.. Be thankful you can play at all..

 

5) Be thankful? LMAO, they should be thankful that people who are still subbed have continued to put up with this botched attempt at an MMO. They are lucky the subscribers they have left, (like myself until the 20th of this month) have continued to invest money in them; believing they were using the funds generated by subscribers to create new content and fix bugs. When instead they were using it to transition the game into F2P and adding general fluff crap and to charge MORE money. Thankful? I think not. Appreciative they are giving me the option to cut my losses and play on a much more casual basis and maybe on occasions wrangle a couple dollars from me here or there... yea. They can have that.

 

Long story short. We're not entitled, were F2P, and we should be able to use anything we earned while we were subbed. You may take away access to FP's, you may limit my war zone usage to bare minimum, you may take away my ability to raid, you may take away EVERY SINGLE THING at 50. But touch a single piece of gear/equipment/credits/mats/inventory on my character and I will put this game down and never look back and I assure you, I will not be the only one.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

My suggestions are as follows:

 

F2P = Max of 6 character slots

Bought/Registered Game = Max of 8 character slots

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Max of 10 character slots (you get access to two additional slots if you keep paying after F2P starts)

 

F2P = Max of one cargo hold tab

Bought/Registered Game = Max of two cargo hold tabs

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Access to 4+ cargo hold tabs

 

F2P = Cannot be a guildmaster

Bought/Registered Game = CAN be a guildmaster

 

etc.

 

Sorry but with FTP you should only get a couple character slots, not 6. With the boxed game that you bought, you bought the right to download the game, and the subscription is what allowed you to have the 8 characters etc, no subscription and you should get 1 maybe 2 character slots, maybe half of a bank tab and credit cap.

 

It amazes me what some people feel entitled to...

[lightSaberAddiCt]

It's not free of charge. We DID pay for the box.

 

I actually think the OPs restriction could bite them pretty hard. It can be difficult to find enough players to run OPs as it is. If you can't get enough of the right players, once the F2P starts, then all of their development budget will be wasted on any future OPs.

 

Funny because I have never had an issue finding OPs, so no I don't really think that will end up biting them. F2P is being offered to bring in more customers/possible subscribers, not allow people that have taken full advantage of the game for months, built a bunch of characters, and then feel that they should be entitled to keep playing with all their characters and gear for free.

 

If they did offer F2P people these things, it would upset more PAYING SUBSCRIBERS and then that would cost them more money, I think they will focus on keeping those people happy rather then a bunch of people that want everything for free.

 

And one other thing I would like to mention, about this "I bought the box, so I should get my stuff" arguement...

 

You purchased this game KNOWING that it was a subscriber based MMO, so now you cannot cry foul, because you do not get to take advantage of some of the subscriber entitlements like OPs etc.

[EJedi]

Sorry but with FTP you should only get a couple character slots, not 6. With the boxed game that you bought, you bought the right to download the game, and the subscription is what allowed you to have the 8 characters etc, no subscription and you should get 1 maybe 2 character slots, maybe half of a bank tab and credit cap.

 

It amazes me what some people feel entitled to...

 

It's a good thing you're not in the marketing department for EA.

 

Do you realize how pointless it is to be overly restrictive on the number of character slots?

 

People can just MAKE FIFTEEN F2P ACCOUNTS to have access to THIRTY characters!

 

EA/Bioware need to encourage players to BUY THE GAME. That's an up-front $15/$30/$60/whatever cash infusion for them, and all they have to do is flip a few bits to enable character slots. They still have to store the character data, even if the characters are grayed out.

 

It's called strategy. They have to balance the feature sets to make each type of account appealing to the right number of players.

 

Diablo 3 has only a one-time cost for players, and gives more characters than you're suggesting.

 

It amazes me what you feel are sensible restrictions. Were you on the original development team that tanked the game to start with?

Edited August 4, 2012 by EJedi

[ShaneW]

I fail to see the problem?? If you stop paying your sub fee in WOW you no longer have access to the servers, let alone your characters.. This little fact is applicable in all subscription games.. So why should this one be any different??

 

You are missing the point here.. If you aren't paying for anything, then you aren't entitled to anything..

 

Main or not, if you cancel your sub and go F2P, then you have nothing to complain about.. Paying nothing entitles you to nothing.. That is what you get in WOW and any other subscription game.. Stop paying the subscription and you lose access to the servers and all your characters.. Explain why this game should be any different..

 

The problem is, for your logic to even be applicable, you have to assume ownership of your character.. According to the TOS, you don't own any of your characters..

 

There simply is no principle in the demand that someone is entitled to something for nothing..

 

Your account is not going to be deleted.. As the FAQ has stated.. You will see the characters you have created.. Not to mention the gear they are wearing.. You just won't be able to use them.. F2P doesn't entitle you to anything.. You can't tell Bioware that you don't want to pay them anymore and then expect them to let you play your characters like nothing has happened.. You cancelled.. Be thankful you can play at all..

 

No need to explain such things to me. I'm aware of them. I'm merely stating how I strongly believe many people will react, which is not dependent on you or anyone else finding it reasonable or not.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ShaneW

[OnlyNameLeft]

Long story short. We're not entitled, were F2P, and we should be able to use anything we earned while we were subbed. You may take away access to FP's, you may limit my war zone usage to bare minimum, you may take away my ability to raid, you may take away EVERY SINGLE THING at 50. But touch a single piece of gear/equipment/credits/mats/inventory on my character and I will put this game down and never look back and I assure you, I will not be the only one.

 

No, you are suffering from entitlement. It is a feeling of entitlement that makes you believe that things you had access to during your subcription phase should be available during a free-to-play phase.

 

Free-to-play accounts have restrictions, subcription accounts do not. Those are the two options. Nowhere on the chart deliniating the perks available to each is there a column for Free-to-play Accounts That Were Once Subcription Accounts.

 

Entitlement is exactly what is causing you to wail and beat your chest despite the basic facts presented. You feel you are entitled to access to things that a subbed player would have. The two-tiered account structure flies in the face of your expectations, yet you still fell entitled to the perks of subscription accounts.

 

This insistence that you have a right to things for no real reason other than "because I should" is the definition of entitled.

[Ashu-ri]

That's not the point. The fact that we BOUGHT THE BOXED COPY should count for something more than cartel coins that will be used up over time. I'm not saying give us the keys to the castle, but give SOMETHING to still make it worth a new F2P player to want to buy the retail box or a full game code.

 

For example, a new F2P player, who starts in December, should get all of the stuff listed in the current F2P column of the features grid. Whatever the full restrictions are going to be, they should be applied to that player. However, if that player PURCHASES AND REGISTERS a copy of the game, they should get permanent access to SOME set of features that everyone who has already bought the game will have.

 

My suggestions are as follows:

 

F2P = Max of 6 character slots

Bought/Registered Game = Max of 8 character slots

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Max of 10 character slots (you get access to two additional slots if you keep paying after F2P starts)

 

F2P = Max of one cargo hold tab

Bought/Registered Game = Max of two cargo hold tabs

SUBSCRIBED Customer = Access to 4+ cargo hold tabs

 

F2P = Cannot be a guildmaster

Bought/Registered Game = CAN be a guildmaster

 

etc.

 

Buying the boxed copy gives you something to install on your computer and one month free playing time. That's it. If you don't pay a subscription fee prior to going free to play, you can't get to the content of the game.

[Ashu-ri]

It's a good thing you're not in the marketing department for EA.

 

Do you realize how pointless it is to be overly restrictive on the number of character slots?

 

People can just MAKE FIFTEEN F2P ACCOUNTS to have access to THIRTY characters!

 

EA/Bioware need to encourage players to BUY THE GAME. That's an up-front $15/$30/$60/whatever cash infusion for them, and all they have to do is flip a few bits to enable character slots. They still have to store the character data, even if the characters are grayed out.

 

It's called strategy. They have to balance the feature sets to make each type of account appealing to the right number of players.

 

Diablo 3 has only a one-time cost for players, and gives more characters than you're suggesting.

 

It amazes me what you feel are sensible restrictions. Were you on the original development team that tanked the game to start with?

 

Most f2p games have a restriction of 2 character slots per server, unless you buy more.

[EJedi]

Buying the boxed copy gives you something to install on your computer and one month free playing time. That's it. If you don't pay a subscription fee prior to going free to play, you can't get to the content of the game.

 

You most definitely CAN get to the content. You don't have to pay Bioware a dime to download the game right now, and play up to level 15.

 

After the game goes F2P, you can continue past level 15 all the way to 50. There is no incentive to buy the retail box at all.

 

It would be a very powerful gesture of good will for them to offer some incentive or reward for having paid $60/$80/$140 for the retail box or digital download. The City of Heroes model would be a good way to handle this (not with the exact restrictions in the CoH list, but similar in concept.) Buying the retail box would count for "Premium" type accounts in SWTOR.

 

http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/freedom/about-freedom/

 

Most f2p games have a restriction of 2 character slots per server, unless you buy more.

 

Unless we buy more? You mean, like, by purchasing the retail box that we already bought? The new F2P players, who never pay one penny for the game client, shouldn't have the same access to game features that people who paid for the game client have.

Edited August 4, 2012 by EJedi

[MajikMyst]

It's not free of charge. We DID pay for the box..

 

And you still have the box.. So what is your point.. You don't own your characters nor do you you own the right to access the servers..

 

You are not entitled.. There is nothing else to say..

[MajikMyst]

No, you are suffering from entitlement. It is a feeling of entitlement that makes you believe that things you had access to during your subcription phase should be available during a free-to-play phase.

 

Free-to-play accounts have restrictions, subcription accounts do not. Those are the two options. Nowhere on the chart deliniating the perks available to each is there a column for Free-to-play Accounts That Were Once Subcription Accounts.

 

Entitlement is exactly what is causing you to wail and beat your chest despite the basic facts presented. You feel you are entitled to access to things that a subbed player would have. The two-tiered account structure flies in the face of your expectations, yet you still fell entitled to the perks of subscription accounts.

 

This insistence that you have a right to things for no real reason other than "because I should" is the definition of entitled.

 

^^

Quoted for truth..

[Leggomy]

And you still have the box.. So what is your point.. You don't own your characters nor do you you own the right to access the servers..

 

You are not entitled.. There is nothing else to say..

 

Dude you are arguing with people who do not want to listen to reason. They cannot grasp the fact if you want the same thing as now you have to keep paying the same thing as now. Probably better for them to quit since quite obviously as soon as the games goes f2p they want to stop paying. Who cares about someone who doesnt want to pay for either coins or a sub? Bioware definately doesnt care they can leave and Bioware will save money. They wont be taking up space on the servers or using customer support either.

[veevito]

They are not taking it away per say.. They are not deleting your stuff.. You will just not have access to your premium gears.. No.. It actually would be in their best interest.. They want you to pay for the game.. Not play it for free.. Free play to 50 is nothing more than a trial to 50.. You will have limits.. If you wish to exceed those limits then you will pay for it.. Either with a monthly subscription.. Which will most likely be the cheapest way in the long run.. Or by individual perks and items.. Whatever system they decide to use to make you pay for it..

 

Just because you have already ground out your gear is irrelevent.. You did that while paying for a subscription, which gives you unlimited access to the game and all it's features and perks.. If you decide to go free to play and not pay them any money, then they can limit your access and game features any way they want.. Paying for something has it's privileges..

 

There really is no such thing as F2P.. I fail to see why so many people actually thought they would be able to play for free.. You are not going to have the same access and perks as someone that is paying a subscription..

 

Simply put.. You can either go F2P and accept the limits they give you.. Stay subscribed to the game and enjoy unlimited and unrestricted access to the premium content.. Or you can rage quit because you had the unrealistic idea that they would actually let you play for free without restrictions..

 

Exactly. I would have thought that it would have been better not to use the "free to play" misnomer for the announcement. Perhaps roll it out as SWTOR Lite or something. I hate the F2P name, because it rarely is. People see F2P and think, cool i'll end my sub and play for free!!lololol. In my mind, using the F2P title just adds a PR nightmare and misconceptions across the board.

 

Some people even saying that $15 for the game for F2P is too much...really?

 

And there are other people are saying "why should I lose access to things that I grinded out or bank slot etc... if I think the game isn't worth 15 a month?". Well, if those things are important to you, then it is worth 15 a month.

 

The whole free to play title needs to go away.

[Monoth]

Funny, I thought Flashpoints and Raids were part of the stuff we paid for with the box game itself. Now if you don't maintain a sub, they will take away what came in the box. Classic EA all the way and why they have gained the stellar reputation as the Worst Company in America. They certainly do a good job trying to maintain that wonderful reputation.

 

Did you actually think Free to Play was actually FREE?!?! come on now, you know thats just marketing hype...

 

You still get to do flashpoints, there just limited on how many you can do a month..... Operations on the other hand are for subscribers only.... What you paid for with the box was the program and 30 days of full access SWTOR content....

 

Even Guild Wars 2 charges for their content after the initial sale of the box game... so I'm not really sure what your complaining about...

[Degarmo]

Monoth, you could change your sig with an addendum at the end to say "like New Jersey".

 

Just an aside there.

[Valkirus]

I am not saying it isn't done... Just that it is very likely illegal (at least in the US) at this time.

 

You should carefully read this part of the link you provided...."The first-sale doctrine is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement that allows legitimate owners of copies of copyrighted works to resell those copies. That defense, the court said, is “unavailable to those who are only licensed to use their copies of copyrighted works.” (.pdf)

 

In other words, if you have purchased a license to use a software, you donot have a right to resell those copies when your license was for personal use. However, as a consumer who only bought a physical copy, they have the right to resell it. Amazon would have been sued years ago with the tons of used software on thier website if that was'nt true.

[Kashley]

No, you are suffering from entitlement. It is a feeling of entitlement that makes you believe that things you had access to during your subcription phase should be available during a free-to-play phase.

 

Free-to-play accounts have restrictions, subcription accounts do not. Those are the two options. Nowhere on the chart deliniating the perks available to each is there a column for Free-to-play Accounts That Were Once Subcription Accounts.

 

Entitlement is exactly what is causing you to wail and beat your chest despite the basic facts presented. You feel you are entitled to access to things that a subbed player would have. The two-tiered account structure flies in the face of your expectations, yet you still fell entitled to the perks of subscription accounts.

 

This insistence that you have a right to things for no real reason other than "because I should" is the definition of entitled.

 

Right... Its totally entitled because having pay for and having earned things is me being entitled. Maybe I should have to pay for my digital deluxe items again too after I unsub since by your reasoning I dont own them, I mearely rented them.

*rolls eyes*

 

Aside from you and Magik saying I am acting entitled, which is your *opinion* I might add, you have said nothing that refutes anything I have said.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Kashley

[Sporin]

There's gonna be a lot of naked rakata wearers on the fleet!

[Drudenfusz]

I hope BioWare does nothing stupid with this. I mean many subscribers drop from time to time the sub and return later, but losing every time stuff would not be very funny, so better BioWare gets this right or they won't get people to re-subscribe to the game.

[Leggomy]

Right... Its totally entitled because having pay for and having earned things is me being entitled. Maybe I should have to pay for my digital deluxe items again too after I unsub since by your reasoning I dont own them, I mearely rented them.

*rolls eyes*

 

Aside from you and Magik saying I am acting entitled, which is your *opinion* I might add, you have said nothing that refutes anything I have said.

 

Right now if you stop paying you lose access to everything. The entitlement part comes in when you say you want to stop paying but still have access to everything. You didnt earn anything its all property of Bioware. If you stop paying at any time you will lose access to everything you supposedly "earned". Which means you are renting the stuff. Bioware is being generous and saying if you want to stop paying they will work with you.

 

Instead of not being able to even log in they tell you they will let you login anyways. Pick a character and with some limitations you can still play the game. You can start new characters do everything withing limits you wish. How you can rationally expect them to provide you with the same level of service as those who pay is beyond me. It makes no sense I am sure Bioware would rather you simply leave. If you arent paying why would they care about you? No offense but this is a business.