Full Immo no longer viable?

[Merya]

Hi, been away for a month or two. Used to have a build with most of the Immortal talents, yet now I see couple threads, where tanks have only about 20 points in the tree. What gives?

[TheSolidPat]

Both full and hybrid are both viable in PVP and PVE.

 

It boils down to what your role is. The full immortal will give you less DPS than the hybrid and also less survivability. In PVP I prefer to fight with a Hybrid as he can do damage aswell.

[ImmortalAlien]

As the above said, they're both viable yet have their own pros and cons. Hybrid seems favorable at the moment, though. As far as which build has the advantage:

 

DPS: Hybrid

PVE Survivability: Equaled, or slightly in Immortal's favor at the most

Threat generation: Hybrid

PVP Survivability: Hybrid

PVP Utility: Immortal

[BanetheDarkLord]

I had always done full Immortal spec, but have been recently and slowly messing with some hybrid builds. This one isnt much of a hybrid since its still mainly Immortal, but I wanted to really see if Crushing Blow is that worth it and if I would miss it in comparison to filling out Unstoppable. So far, I don't miss Crushing Blow at all, Unstoppable has been way more worth it to me. 27/12/2 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RMGduzrdbZfor0MZ0M.2

[Elyx]

As the above said, they're both viable yet have their own pros and cons. Hybrid seems favorable at the moment, though. As far as which build has the advantage:

 

DPS: Hybrid

PVE Survivability: Equaled, or slightly in Immortal's favor at the most

Threat generation: Hybrid

PVP Survivability: Hybrid

PVP Utility: Immortal

 

I disagree with the bolded part. One of the biggest differences I've noticed with the hybrid build is the poor rage generation. in a PvE environment, it is a BIG difference. And Rage = skill use = threat. Hybrid pulls a bit more in damage, and sadly enough survivability (It should be the other way around). but Soresu rage generation in a hybrid form sucks.

 

EDIT: correction....in a mostly Vengeance hybrid. hybrids that are mostly immortal (key is getting the rage talents higher in the tree) do fine. but on the flip side, a 27/12/x is mostly immortal, with a few extra in vengeance. your just subbing out crushing blow for unstoppable (a nice tradeoff IMO).

Edited August 7, 2012 by Elyx

[unbreak_able]

I had always done full Immortal spec, but have been recently and slowly messing with some hybrid builds. This one isnt much of a hybrid since its still mainly Immortal, but I wanted to really see if Crushing Blow is that worth it and if I would miss it in comparison to filling out Unstoppable. So far, I don't miss Crushing Blow at all, Unstoppable has been way more worth it to me. 27/12/2 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RMGduzrdbZfor0MZ0M.2

 

Good spec.

[Lymain]

I disagree with the bolded part. One of the biggest differences I've noticed with the hybrid build is the poor rage generation. in a PvE environment, it is a BIG difference. And Rage = skill use = threat. Hybrid pulls a bit more in damage, and sadly enough survivability (It should be the other way around). but Soresu rage generation in a hybrid form sucks.

 

More DPS means more threat. The only way more rage translates to more threat is if you're doing more DPS (which, in this case, you aren't). It's not like taunts cost rage.

[ImmortalAlien]

Soresu Hybrid pulls more threat due to higher DPS (>650 DPS in a tank and spank with Rakata on mine), regardless of the slightly smaller threat generation in Soresu compared to full Immortal. Unless the hate abilities such as Crushing Blow and Backhand make up for the higher DPS Hybrid has, then Hybrid will always get the most threat. Edited August 11, 2012 by ImmortalAlien

[JimmyTheCannon]

How effective is Unstoppable, really, in PVE endgame tanking? You're not exactly going to be charging a lot during most fights, and if it only lasts the first 4 seconds, that's kind of a waste in most boss fights.

[wadecounty]

How effective is Unstoppable, really, in PVE endgame tanking? You're not exactly going to be charging a lot during most fights, and if it only lasts the first 4 seconds, that's kind of a waste in most boss fights.

 

The point of the hybrid is the 4% damage reduction and the 9 second cd on Force Screams (more uptime on Sonic Barrier), along with Impale being > Crushing Blow for threat because it does way more damage and is on shorter cd, meaning more damage AND more threat. Unstoppable is really just a bonus that comes with the build.

 

That being said, HM EC you're looking at at least 5 leaps on every regular boss fight (Toth/Zorn, Firebrand/Stormcaller, Kephess), 10+ in some situations. But even with just 5 leaps, that's 20% damage reduction for 20 seconds, the equivalent of an extra defensive cooldown. It shines in a situation like Kephess at the end, where you're passing him back and forth and you just have to hold out for a short period of time. You might only have him on you for 20 seconds at a time, so you're looking at 20% damage reduction for 1/5th of that, which is huge.

 

Now, all that said, full Immortal is still more than capable of tanking something like HM EC, and the advantages for that build are a far easier time managing your Rage and a much easier ability to tank Hard Mode flashpoints, with better AOE threat capabilities and 2 hard stuns to help manage trash.

 

I would suggest for someone new to Juggernaut tanking that they first play full Immortal, get used to it, and then when they feel very comfortable managing their rage, maybe try out the hybrid and see how they like it. But from a min/max perspective, I'd agree the hybrid is the way to go for HM EC.

Edited September 4, 2012 by wadecounty

[JimmyTheCannon]

I'll stick with the full Immortal for now, then. My Jug only hit 50 last Thursday.

[CJNJ]

So how has the hybrid been for TFB? Also can anybody post the hybrid tank spec with impale? Was mentioned earlier but I never saw it

[Elyx]

So how has the hybrid been for TFB? Also can anybody post the hybrid tank spec with impale? Was mentioned earlier but I never saw it

 

Generic Hybrid

 

there's a basic one. it has all the key elements that make up the hybrid. there's a few variable ones (such as accuracy instead of pooled hatred, etc), but those are really gear specific and personal preference, so i just maxed accuracy. but it gets you all the critical elements that make a hybrid work.

 

also, if you want more flexibility from a DPS standpoint, you could drop a few points from accuracy and get Shien form instead...very nice rage boost allows for allot more specials. I tend to run that way when im using the hybrid.

 

I chose battle cry over quake mostly because I tend to feel the rage starvation more then anything else in this build. After running hybrid in HM's, i just tend to prefer full immortal in PuG's. in guild ran Ops, hybrid seems to work well. but in Flashpoints I tend to feel far more rage starved then i do in full immortal. don't see threat as a regular issue tho, so it's most likely just a personal preference.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Elyx

[tatatan]

Hi,

Hybrid is better. I was full Immortal and the Hybrid changed my tanikng experience in positive way. The big change is the "Unstoppable" (and Deafening defense). What i do during fight (if it is possible) run away from mob and leap back => rage generation, mob casting interrupted (if interruptible), free force scream (granting Sonic barrier), 4 sec 20% dmg reduction. Simply nice move granting many bonuses in one package

Very viable on range attacking mobs.

If the mob is melee, then i wait for them to start some casting / channeling attack so they have to stop.